Maher was great last night. Do u think he's right about Bush?

[HeyManThatsCool]

Is Bush a visionary?
Did he see something the rest of us couldn't see?

The quote from Kennedy that Maher to describe what Bush has done was "Some people look at the world & see things how they are. Others look at the world & see things how they could be".


Maher says that it's not 2003 its 2005 & that we all need to give Bush some credit.

What do you think? Are you more likely to support the President now?

[mhr]

1. Are You Crazy - Bill Has Lost His Marbles

And so have you for asking that dumb question!

[koopie57]

2. no

but I am more likely to think Maher is a bigger nut than I first thought.

[HeyManThatsCool]

3. But maybe we are all just too intolerant.

We worry more about the people of Iraq & our soldiers than we do about democracy according to Maher.

[Atman]

11. I am intollerant of law breakers and war criminals.

Please forgive me.

What part of the Constitutional thing are you missing?

[HeyManThatsCool]

14. But Bush wants to re-write the constitution

maybe he sees something we dont?

[Atman]

26. ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE?

Bush obviously is.

The constitution isn't a document some dude just gets to re-write because he's sick of paying high taxes, answering to the media or seeking congressional approval.

What the hell is wrong with you???????????????

[MissWaverly]

25. Yea, maybe we're too worried about things like

the Geneva convention and the right to due process, remember that's the real reason that people bought into Hitler, he promised a religious society with no mental illness, no crime, no gays, no gypsys, no jews, no diversity, just one big happy society with the
"master race" If Hitler was alive today, he wouldn't say "master race" he would say "the haves" vs the have-nots.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/12/politics/12detain.html?th

WASHINGTON, March 11 - Two Afghan prisoners who died in American custody in Afghanistan in December 2002 were chained to the ceiling, kicked and beaten by American soldiers in sustained assaults that caused their deaths, according to Army criminal investigative reports that have not yet been made public.

[leesa]

55. You are nuts! Bush is destroying our economy and our democracy

What kind of denial game are you playing?

[Mika]

4. USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA

USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA

#1 Baby!! With a bullet.

[SHRED]

5. Maher can't hold...

Jon Stewart's jock strap.

Bill Maher is so damn wishy washy it is sickening.

[HeyManThatsCool]

7. What makes you think he's wishy washy?

Cant a man change his mind?

[SHRED]

20. I heard his schtick

He tries to be too cute and bashes even good movements and ideas.
Too me, he his is becoming Dennis Miller light.

[Mika]

Man Coulter must've just dicked Bill in the arse.

[Jersey Ginny]

6. Vision would imply that there has been success

I haven't seen any success that he's had. Killing 100K people in Iraq is "vision"? Pissing off the rest of the world and isolating the US is "vision?" Running up huge deficits from a surplus is "vision?" Increasing military spending (not on the soldiers) and decimating social security is vision? How about the latest I read where Bush is backtracking on decreasing farm subsidies in favor of cutting Food Stamp programs for the poor? Heck, Hitler had "vision." Bush has had no success that I can see and he has brought this country down a dangerous and immoral path. I don't know what Maher was referring to? Was he specific in any way?

[HeyManThatsCool]

10. But it looks like the rest of the world is coming around to Bushs way

of thinking. At least according to Maher & most of his guests last night

[mahatmakanejeeves]

18. "it looks like the rest of the world is coming around to Bushs way"

Buy a shortwave radio and start listening to it. Watch news from overseas on your TV, if you can find it. Read something other than a US newspaper.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

48. The rest of the world HATES Bush

what are you smoking?

[Atman]

8. When does Bill mud wrestle Dennis Miller for ratings?

Fucking nut sell-out whore. "Visionaries" don't break the law and use "ends justifies the means" to achieve their vision. The people that do are just criminals, just like any other historical criminal. Bye-Bye Maher. Fuck you.

[JanMichael]

9. You can't possibly be serious! If the chimp is a "visionary" FDR...

...was an alien placed here from a far away planet to help the poor pitiful Americans out of a bad fix.

"Elections" and "Coalitions" are something that one has to take with a barrel full of salt when viewing what is happening in the ME. To not do so allows one to swallow the bs that Maher was selling last night.

EDIT: "Are you more likely to support the President now?"

Are you high?

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. Are you high?

That would be my assessment. Either that or the OP is being sarcastic, hopefully.

[kohodog]

49. He'll have to share the Kool aid.

Things aren't exactly as they'd like us to think in Iraq, or even in this country for that matter. I'm really surprised this thread hasn't gone down in flames.

[Domitan]

12. No matter what

USA still has tons of blood on its hand. No matter what transpires in the days ahead, USA has a lot to answer for. Even if Iraq miraculously became a thriving democracy tomorrow with all human rights respected, it does not wash away the sins of Bush and co.

[hector459]

16. Iraq was closer to a thriving democracy under Saddam than it is now.

It is neither "thriving" nor a "democracy."

[Domitan]

21. The point still remains

no matter what the outcome is, Bush and co have committed too many war crimes for their deeds to be whitewashed.

[hector459]

13. You have to understand where Maher's real interests lie. and who he is.

He didn't drink the Kool-aid, he passed it out.

[Minstrel Boy]

24. man, is that ever well said!

"He didn't drink the Kool-aid, he passed it out."


:toast:

[leesa]

58. So true...anyone who regards Ann Coulter as a friend and a nice person, is

whacked out.

[Nickster]

15. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA

Oh, you were being serious? I'll support Dubya when he's packing his bags to head back to Crawford. Heck, I'll pay for his ticket even.

[Selatius]

17. Bush gets credit for booting Saddam; everything else goes to Iraqis

Bush's only credit is booting Saddam Hussein. Because of the poor planning for the war, there was no security and no real reconstruction. The only thing the people could do is either vote or boycott. If a new government emerges despite the loss of life and despite the chaos as a result of the blunders and mistakes of war, I would posit it was because the people wanted not only to boot the US but to try to bring order back to their ruined nation.

[thecrow]

19. Maher was playing to a CONSERVATIVE crowd

So he made CONSERVATIVE remarks.
He must have gotten word from the top.
Other than that I thought his show STANK last night.
He is wishy-washy.

[HeyManThatsCool]

22. next week is his republican tribute show

Are you all going to watch?

[intheozone]

23. Not just NO, but fucking HELL NO!!!

Maher is trying to soften his own image to save his show from being cancelled. Either that or Maher is out of touch with what really is happening in the middle east.

[KaryninMiami]

27. You've got to be kidding, right?

Bill Maher is obviously drinking the kool aid or something strange has come over A Visionary does not murder 100,000+ innocent citizens plus 1500 of our kids, seriously injure a few thousand others and take over a country in the name of "democracy". It's not about their freedom- it's about world domination. Watch the film at www.theocracywatch.org. More likely to support this horrendous agenda? NOT IN THIS LIFE.

[Hamlette]

28. I didn't see the show, but sounds like what was said about Vietnam circa

1965 to 1972. Only this time we don't have the press reporting what is happening on the ground.

This thing with Lebanon is the perfect example. It looks "democratic" when it kicks Syria out on Tuesday, the US press goes nuts with its "democracy is spreading like wildfire throughout the world thanks to Bush" but the press takes a pass on reporting that on Wednesday half a million people protested against kicking Syria out and on Thursday the government reversed itself and Syria stays.

The question Bill should ask is: Is it too soon to connonize Bush over his success in the middle east? What really happened in Lebanon? Who are those 500,000 protestors and what do they want?

[Wright Patman]

29. If the Irish had lost their homeland

and were forced to wander the earth for 2,000 years, then regained it and were virtually surrounded by English and others with the mindset of radical Arabs and Muslims, all the Irish comedians would be rallying around whomever fought their enemies for them as well.

However, Maher, being an atheist, has to really hate having to be in the same camp as the fundies on this issue.

[AVID]

30. I think you're on to something . . .

have some more

[neweurope]

31. Are you nuts?Sounds like you're buying this. Getting around

to like and respect the mass murderer?

Look around you. Where, please, do you see this gallopping democracy in the Middle East? All I see are starving, hungry, hurt and dead people and some criminal politicians that Bushco. bought.

I very much wish I knew what was said at Bush's visit in Europe (or rather before - the visit itself was just for us poor taxpayers). It is clear that some European countries are giving Bush a little. Don't know how he twisted their arms. But please don't confuse some European countries with "the rest of the world". The USA are hated all over the world like never before.

With reason.

---------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[HeyManThatsCool]

33. Well, HE didnt personally kill anyone

[neweurope]

41. So who IS responsible? What kind of thinking is this?

You all support the troops because the tropos are not at fault. Bush and Cheney didn't kill anybody personally. So nobody's a fault, hm? Things just happened. :crazy:

Have you ever stopped to ponder that HITLER never to anybody's knowledge killed anybody personally? Do you think therefore that he was a great man with a vision?
----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[leesa]

60. He is personally responsible for EVERY death he has caused

in Afghanistan and Iraq. You are disgusting. Go Away.

[ismnotwasm]

32. Oh hell no

bush is a walking disaster. Credit for what? Setting up Iraq to become a new Islamic state? Creating a breeding groung for "insurgents"? If the seeds of democracy have been planted in the middle east, it wasn't bush's doing, and it didn't just happen over the last 4 years. I hope the people in the area are able to pull through this an aquire the goverment they want, but what if what they what IS a fundalmentalist government? Any direction I turn, any issue, to look for "credit" for that man, all I see is the potential for great destruction. In fact, what good does come out of it, apparently is from people scambling to fix what that madman has started. Maybe that's what Maher means. Action through being friggin' terrified.

[HeyManThatsCool]

35. Ok... maybe not credit- but "capital"

[ismnotwasm]

44. Not capital either

Since the even the EU is able to out maneuver him.

[Kansas Wyatt]

34. Maher became popular by catering to the majority opposed to Bush.

Now he is throwing it away by saying nice things about Bush and comparing Bush to REAL and Great Presidents. Anymore of Maher's change, and he will be letting Ann Coulter play the "Bulldog" on him with her strap-on. Anyone who compares Bush to JFK or FDR is offensive, insulting, and has drank the Kool-Aid.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

37. Bored, much?

(Some of us read both GD and the Lounge at the same time)
I'm not biting.

[JohnyCanuck]

38. Thanks for the perspective from the Disney World POV.

Just back from a long weekend at the Disney World reality show, where my wife and I spent the weekend trailing our 11-year-old son around Walt's sterile and contrived alternate universe, I find the U.S. media hard at work trying to produce the same kind of world of illusion as one finds on display in the Magic Kingdom.

Double standards (if one can even use the word standard in connection with the media today) are on full display.

Take Lebanon. While tens and even hundreds of thousands of demonstrators gathering in America is a story that can be buried on inside pages (as the N.Y. Times did in the case of the first big New York march against the Iraq War), or in many cases not covered at all (at least unless a few of them behave violently or react assertively to police provocation), a few thousand, or even a few hundred stylishly Western-clad young Lebanese protesting against America's enemy of the week, Syria, get full-bore coverage. When is the last time we've seen a U.S. protest on the cover of Time or Newsweek? Yet there were those fresh-faced young Lebanese, gracing the fronts of both magazines on display in the airport newsstand. A little embarrassing when half a million Lebanese who back Syria's role in their country take to the streets a few days later, and the pro-Syria prime minister, who was pressured to resign last week, is brought back, but hey, who's paying attention to what happened last week?

In Iraq, it's the same story. The insurgency continues to grow, with attacks on the Abu-Ghraib torture center in the Green Zone getting so bad that the U.S. has decided to move its "high-value" prisoner/victims to a jail in the center of the Baghdad airport, where there is a wider perimeter of control, Yet all the American media can talk about is how dramatic the new democratic developments in Iraq are, with liberal columnists even suggesting that Bush is being proven right in invading Iraq. It's as though a tide of democracy had already swept the Middle East, though at this point, not one authoritian government has shown signs of foundering, much less toppling. Of course, there are some things that are hard to ignore or paper over. The killing, by nervous and trigger-happy American troops, of a Bulgarian "coalition" soldier, the Italian secret service rescuer of an Italian journalist, and the body guards of an Iraqi government official, all in the space of a few days, have made it abundantly clear that the U.S. occupation force, far from defending democracy, is slaughtering civilians in Iraq on a daily basis.

www.counterpunch.org/lindorff03112005.html

[hiley]

39. Maher was not great

last night and I am getting sick of him playing to the conservatives.
No one should ever use JFK to "help" bushwacked. It is no different to me than when bush trys to use FDR to destroy Social Security. Give me a break !
The only credit George W deserves is credit for screwing everything up!

[Stirk]

40. First, the situation in Lebanon has nothing to do with Bush's policies.

The assassination of the former Lebanese Prime Minister touched off demonstrations. It's only one segment of the Lebanese population that's pushing for the removal of Syrian troops. Another segment is pushing for their continued presence.

The situation in Egypt is muddled as well.

But since you're comfortable giving Bush credit for everything that happens on his watch, why not go ahead and give Bush credit for Sideways' Oscar Awards as well?

[w13rd0]

42. Goebbels was great last night. Do you think he's right about Hitler?

Sure he ran roughshod over the Constitution, killed millions, but he got Germany out of its worst depression. Blah blah blah...

Why am I reading this war crimes apologist shit on DU? Oh wait...nevermind...

[Caretha]

43. Is that Kool aide you're sippin' from that coconut?

"Is Bush a visionary?"

Uhhh, Hitler was a visionary too, right?

[seabeyond]

45. i love it heycool

no one takes me to disney world like bush.........or psychedelics

[Finder]

46. Only if you believe the Ends Justify the Means...

although we are not even close to reaching the end of this mess.

I do agree with Maher as far as hating Bush first being detrimental and sometimes leads to some opposing issues without facts.

Regardless of whether Iraq becomes a democracy or not, the use of propaganda and the atrocities committed will never be forgotten.

What succeeded in Iraq so far is those who are greedy and understand how a military/industrial complex benefits the upper classes will hold position of power in the new government.(as long as the US benefits and approves of them) Civil rights, equality and such will need to be fought for in the upcoming decades/centuries as is the rule.

[Snotcicles]

Are you being paid to be in DU

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

51. or you could read up on the follow up post

and see it is more the clearing of illusion that is being fed to the people. and the direction and site of the story being told. i dont think hey cool is supporting bush, do you?

[atommom]

50. There's a line (and not even a fine line) between being a visionary

and acting without considering any of the facts before you. GW falls into the second camp.

[Misunderestimator]

52. This is all supposed to be extreme sarcasm, right? Seriously, I think you

should answer that... otherwise, I'm thinking someone else is at your keyboard, OR you've been misrepresenting yourself. :shrug: Sarcasm, right?

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

54. You probably know this, but the OP is "bored"

According to this post in the lounge.
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2818449

[Misunderestimator]

56. Well, then, "hey man that's not so cool..."

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

59. Indeed.

While I don't post as often as I'd like (and few people here even know who I am, except for the Sci Fi Group) I like to read the discussions here in General Discussion without this...crap cluttering up the board.

[Individualist]

OP thinks it's cute

to post crap like this in GD. Says a lot about the person, doesn't it?

[seabeyond]

63. i watched maher last nite

and spent some tiem on the board talking about it. i am finding this morning to be insightful to me on this subject. it was so late and i was so tired, but still thinking about it. watching maher and three on board saying this stuff really let me see the story the people will be talking. this is how people are goign to see it for a while i believe. i have to think thru all the errors of bush way, and he not able to do a single thing right, universe is going to blow this up in his face next week, lol . kinda like the mission accomplished, election good kinda shit.

but i have been off news. so i only heard on board what people have been saying. seems to be everywhere

[nostamj]

57. "bored"?

well, it's certainly BORING.

[not systems]

65. What an ultramaroon.

Take it back to the potty training area.

[leesa]

67. What a shallow sick mofo. Are THESE the kind of people in the lounge

these days? I never post there, but what kind of freaks are they?

[Misunderestimator]

70. Now, now... I love the lounge... you expect some amount of silliness

there, but a lot of great people post there and many of the threads can be insightful and inspiring. I think this OP has just gone a bit overboard. No, it's not all shallow sick mofos in the lounge. :)

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

71. The Lounge isn't all bad.

There's some fun and funny discussions going on in there.
But to stir up the hornet's nest (there's those BEES again) just because you're "bored"
:eyes:

[ultraist]

72. "I posted something pretty inflammatory" that pretty much says it...

ROFLMAO

well, I posted something pretty inflammatory & no one is responding.
I think they know we go over there for shits n giggles

chillin


whatever :eyes:

[ultraist]

62. sarcasm or BEES!

[kohodog]

69. Damn it the Bees are back. Pass the ether. n/t

[Stop_the_War]

53. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[merh]

61. Bill Maher has been pro-war from the get go.

He has that crazy cowboy mentality that we need to kick the ass of the bastards that attacked us. Guess he just can't get his brain around the simple fact that SH and the Iraqi's did not attack us.

We are an invading country to attacked and now occupies a weaker country and we are trying to force our way of life down the throats of her people and others in the middle east, that is not visionary, that is barbaric. Did Napoleon have the right idea? What about Musolini?

[seabeyond]

68. another lie that they are bringing in, (remember coulter friend)

over 100k innocent iraq dead, saddam was chopping off heads, there would have been at least that

that is not what saddam would do. here and there yes, but we stick needles in arms. the mass graves seem to be during uprising or wars, u.s. hand always a part

[da_chimperor]

64. Hitler was a visionary too, in his own fucked up and genocidal way

He envisioned a German empire that would last 1000 years. He envisioned a world free of the 'untermensch'. He saw something the rest of the world didn't, but that didn't stop the USA and most of the rest of the world from taking him down. Calling shrub a visionary doesn't amount to shit.

I'm a visionary too. I envision a world free from war, hunger, poverty, and disease. I envision a world where everyone cares more about our similarities than our differences. Am I right? It doesn't really matter, as having a vision of something is in no way related to it being 'right' or 'good' or 'realistic'. It's simply how one person wishes the world would be like. The difference between myself, and those in power such as chimpy or Hitler is they have the power to try to make their visions happen. We won't know how this vision ends for quite a while longer.

[Toby109]

66. Just as Reagan cannot be be given sole

credit for the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Junior can't claim responsibility for the fledgling "democracy" in the Middle East. In many respects the U.S. has, historically, been a hindrance to democracy in much of the third world.

[Skinner]

73. I'm locking this.

See here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2818449&mesg_id=2818794&page=