maher got sucked into the koolaide........

[seabeyond]

this is horrible. he is so supporting bush and this war. saying he is good. doing a good job. just one guy, i dont know his name, trying his hardest to bring a reality. but wow. i havent been watching the news. i didnt know people have shifted so much on bush's side

[sonicx]

1. Richard Belzer

love him

[seabeyond]

3. he is working his tush off.......thank you

the lesbian muslim reporter though, she is so supporting this war. and then there is a drudge dude?

[devilgrrl]

8. the muslim version of Camille Paglia is making my stomach turn!

What an asshole! :puke:

[seabeyond]

12. is this consistant how people are feeling

am i really that out of touch not watching news. this what happens when i dont watch the brainwashing channels

wow look who is on now, bah hahahahahah camille

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

40. I love Belzer too, and thank goodness he hasn't drunk the kool-aid

with Maher.

[JetCityLiberal]

53. Thank you Richard Belzer

the only reason I kept watching tonight.

JetCityLiberal

[Nickster]

2. I was just thinking the same thing, I turned off the show.

He got me going when he was spouting right wing talking points about Social Security and he just went downhill from there. Hey guys, it's a good thing that Dubya didn't know anything about the Middle East. What??

[seabeyond]

5. my mouth was hangng open on that.

bush was so stupid on middle east he had the ability to see what could be. eeewwwwwww gag

[lala_rawraw]

15. I stopped watching him from the

First show back post the election. In fact, I am confused by the sudden about face by various "reality-based" people.

[Nickster]

19. You mean our about face or the about face of reality based celebs?

[lala_rawraw]

55. Well

He is not so much into the whole celeb thing. I mean the guy does nothing but talk about the food supply, poison, etc. I just have never seen him in the celeb capacity.

[yorkiemommie1]

36. fareed zakariah says the same thing in Newsweek

about how *'s stupidity about the world actually helped him!

newspeak... welcome to orwell's world.

the world has gone mad.

[seabeyond]

43. the world has gone mad.

this is exactly what i was feeling. i even felt a little spin going on. being sucked up into a tornado. follow the yellow brick road

[gulfcoastliberal]

73. He totally lied about the fed employees pensions plans

Saying that for 20 years fed employees could divert their ss taxes into private accounts. Barney Frank corrected him ASAP.

[stepnw1f]

101. I Caught That Bullshit Too

Either somebody has his balls in their hands waiting to squeeze at any moment or he truly is a hack.

His attitude towards this (invasion, occupation-destabilization, civil war) appears deliberate.

[linazelle]

4. BIG TIME...I tuned in at the end

This is horrible. Another one bites the dust.

[drdtroit]

6. Somebody's got some pictures! n/t

B-)

[linazelle]

7. The lesbian loudmouth made my blood boil, as she did Belzer's

with the name calling...

[seabeyond]

16. that was really good when he said, how dare you

how dare you............you dont know me. and the the comment on sound bites are dangerous

[Tactical Progressive]

9. More than just supporting the war

He's going on about Bush's big 'vision' that no-one else could have had. We're lucky he's so stupid about the Middle East that he could "see things that never were, and ask, 'Why not?'"

Even as he acknowleges that everything Bush said to invade Iraq were a series of blatant lies.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

10. What audience will Maher have left after this fiasco?

Lesbian Muslim Conservatives?

[cidliz2004]

23. Exactly, she is beyond belief

She made me sick, and Bill Maher, well maybe he's
being threatened with losing his show. Why else
would he be wanting a conservative audience for
next show?

Why didn't anyone bring up oil?

[stepnw1f]

102. She's a Joke

She's a dark skinned Anne Coulter. She'll have a show on Fox. Wait for it.... eck.

[devilgrrl]

11. Speaking of assholes - it's Camille Paglia!

:eyes:

[linazelle]

13. Everything else he says is meaningless, the end of the show

topic about teachers molesting students is akin to Michael Jackson/Martha Stewart hype. Salaciousness and nothing more--he's lost it.

[Southsideirish]

14. He's always been a rather pro-war middle of the road creep.

[dennis4868]

17. Shit....

another Dennis Miller. It is obvious that Maher wants to expand his viewership and so he is doing everything he can to get more right wing viewers....only way to that is to kiss their ass.

[Maddy McCall]

18. Ugg. And now he has Camille Paglia on.

A psuedofeminist anti-feminist.

[sonicx]

20. I can't believe how lame the show has gotten...

Bill, conservatives are not watching your show. Stop already.

[linazelle]

21. But we are still watching aren't we? Let's make sure we don't next week

whadayasay? (This is my first time watching this season and hopefully my last.)

[seabeyond]

22. well i have no desire

turned off news. no more maher. a little jon stewart

[Cha]

I already cancelled my

hbo last year.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

24. He compared George W. Bush to Robert F. Kennedy

"Some men see things as they are and ask 'Why?' I dream things that never were and ask, 'Why not?'"

Real Time has become SurReal Time.

[dennis4868]

26. IT'S ALL ABOUT RATINGS AND MONEY.....

His HBO masters are telling to go pro Bush because they want higher ratings and therefore more revenue. He is now officially a whore! Nothing but a stupid whore!

[Clark2008]

64. Why would a pro-Bush show necessarily translate into higher ratings?

If half the country - and, depending on the issue - more than half the country hate Bush, then why would this translate into higher ratings?
Besides, Bush lovers have a smorgasboard of other options since most of the MSM are Bush-enablers, thanks to the short list of corporations that own the media.

[Colorado Blue]

61. I think you're misinterpreting a little. Maher is merely

trying to suggest that MAYBE the election in Iraq had some good effects, and that Bush's very IGNORANCE might have caused him to attempt changes in the M.E. that a more knowledgeable person might have ignored.

I don't see why that comment should have so inflamed the DU audience. I hate Bush bigtime but if something good comes out of the whole mess I'll be overjoyed.

Shouldn't we all???? Or would you, deep down, prefer to see the Middle East remain a backwards region, the people under the thumb of dictators and mullahs? I'm really curious, I do not understand the violence of the response here.

Maher totally agreed, we went to war for bullshit reasons. He was acknowledging the POTENTIAL for good to arise from the sorrow and chaos of the war and the aftermath of 9/11. And the woman who has so upset so many in this thread is a Muslim and a reporter whose specialty is the Islamic world. Her comments must carry some weight, even if her persona was terribly annoying:)

[dennis4868]

65. what good....

has come out of this mess so far and what good will ever come from all of this...NONE. It is all bullshit....stop watching FOX, MSNBC, CNN, etc....it is messing up your mind!

[seabeyond]

67. firstly if anything good comes of iraq, it isnt going to be bush

i can go thru point after point after point from the start of this war where bush fucked up in decision making and caused more loss of life and more animosity in iraq and middle east that was not warranted. he made poor choices every step of the way and is still making poor choices for that country that is not helping but hindering.

of course i would like the people of iraq not to be in this mess. my problem with going in there in the first place. did i want to help those people, you bet, does this ever work, no. if it were a baby of mine in the over 100k iraqi's dead, i dont know if i would feel it was worth it

secondly, maher did not recite factual information. he gave out propagandized information that simply is not correct. i never htink that is ok

if iraq pulls this out and they all work together, decide on a government, one that is equal to all, not going to stop women from education adn repress them, like saddam had in his nonsecular dictatorship, then it will be the will of the iraqi people. they will get the credit and appluase, it will not be for bush. i think a lot of what the people experience is because of bush and wouldnt have happened with any other leader, even in war

bush isnt getting a pat on the back for the horrors and the greed his people have deonstrated in all this

[kentuck]

70. Why would Bush deserve any credit???

He fucked up all along the way...So, if the Iraqis decide they want a western democracy, like ours, that will be the best thing that could ever happen to them?

[Carolab]

71. It's NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

"Shouldn't we all???? Or would you, deep down, prefer to see the Middle East remain a backwards region, the people under the thumb of dictators and mullahs?"

Again, IT'S NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

[Colorado Blue]

95. Actually, I am not sure we aren't involved whether we like

it or not. Our economy runs on oil. The Middle East and Central Asia, by virtue of their location in the world, flank the southern edges of Russia and western boundaries of China. In the past this was the region of the Silk Road, linking Arabia and the Med to India and Far East. It remains strategically important today.

The liberal position would be, I think, to pretend that the nasty business of running an economy should be offstage somewhere, or happen by magic, or that a religious extremist in the oil producing regions of the world doesn't affect the global economy.

This position has ceded the business of foreign policy and international affairs to the Republicans, who represent the interests of big business and the multinationals. Liberals don't HAVE a coherent strategy for dealing with international affairs, war, or global economics. We don't have a coherant policy for dealing with cultures that offend our sensibilities - we deplore human rights violations here at home yet are apparently willing to write off the women of the Muslim world.

I suggest that we do the work, figure out some global strategies. How SHOULD liberals deal with these problems? Should we set aside zones for pastoral nomads, zones for traditional farmers, zones for hi-tech enterprise? Or????

Or should we unplug the tube and let the Republicans take over the whole damn planet?

[seabeyond]

96. i dont think you are right, and here is why

we very much are aware of dependency, yet we do nothing to get ourselves away from dependency. we could. we would create a whole new industry. yet we are. so a flip flop on the truth, i think we are so beyond in finding the solution, where bush and oil is so old way

that is the absurdity of what msm feeds to the people.

democrats in many ways have solutions. they are just ignored. where bush, ......does not have a plan for our future

on edit: and denies today, and changes yesterday to fit his agenda

[Colorado Blue]

98. I completely agree with you about the need for a new fuel

and it is LONG overdue. That is an issue Democrats could be pushing hard, in political forums around the country, and trying to find investors.

[EstimatedProphet]

89. No he's not. He's saying good things ARE coming out of Iraq.

Care to name some? I can't. All of them (but Belzer) are ignoring the facts that:

-somewhere around 100,000 innocent people are dead (wonder if the "muslim expert" asked them if they're grateful for the US invasion);
-there is still effective anarchy in Iraq;
-water and power are still not up to pre-invasion levels;
-the cost for the war is now approaching $400 BILLION, and we still have troops there who have no body armor, with substandard equipment, who have to pay extortion rates for food and now are having to pay for their health care IF THEY ARE WOUNDED IN ACTION...

All the pundits can blunder around and make asinine arguements about how much better Iraq is now because of "democracy" in the area, but when they do, they ignore all the factslisted above. Are they saying that that was the only way to bring democracy-that we had to take this route, ONLY this route, to establish it? They'd better be, because WE DIDN'T CONSIDER ANY OTHER ROUTES. The entire planet begged us to consider other routes, and Bush laughed at them and called them names, along with all the American citizens that said the same thing.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

90. I guess it's a matter of trust

I don't trust this administration. We've ended a free press in Iraq, with many newspaper being shut down during Bremer's reign. Al Jazeera has been kicked for the only reason that they show the civilian casualties of this war, night after night. Our soldiers are shooting at non-imbedded reporters. We are continuing to adopt a shoot-first and incarcerate-first, ask questions later policy in our military. Prison torture goes on. We've allegedly used banned weapons in Faluja. We've begun privatizing everything. We've handed over the development of Iraq's oil fields to corporate exploiters. We're building 9, or according to some, 11 permanent bases over there. We're building the largest embassy in the history of the world in Baghdad. We've got U.S. military bases dotted throughout the Gulf region in an apparent attempt to convert the Persian Gulf into an American lake. According to Scott Ritter, he has inside information that the Iraq election was a fraud, in that 10% of the votes of the Shiite Party led by Al Sistani were subtracted and given to Allawi's Party, in order to force the Shiites to cut a deal with the Kurds. The Bush Administration didn't want the elections to take place; it was Al Sistani who issued a Fatwa last June to his people, ordering them to pressure the US government for elections. The current structure for Democracy is such that if a Constitution cannot be agreed upon, the whole election process starts over, thereby prolonging the US presence. Bush has not outlined any exit plan or disengagement plan, despite the fact that his military is telling him this war may last 10 years.

I really don't care if Bush is remembered favorably or not. He'll be a footnote in history, from a global perspective. As a Liberal, I of course would like to see peoples' everywhere have self-determination. I don't trust this Administration to allow Iraq to have self-determination, to choose their own economic system, to choose their own alignment vis-a-vis the world. The Neocons are like camels in the tent. Today they will tell you they only want so much. Tomorrow, they'll want more. Eventually, they want it all.

[Colorado Blue]

94. I hear ya! I don't trust them either. I just want liberals to

have open minds, be willing to accept intellectual challenges. It's uncomfortable sometimes but it's the only way to grow and also the only way to ride the wind, really feeling the changes that are going on in the world.

I live near Lake Michigan, and there are violent winds and many, many birds. The seagulls are particularly wonderful to watch, as they fly into and through the winds, their wing and tail feathers changing angles infinitesimally, delicately, to keep them aloft. That's how our minds have to be, I think, in response to new events and new ideas. We can't fly like airborne SUV's, we'll crash!

We have a unique POV, we're living in a very exciting and frightening time in history. I think we - liberals - can play an important role here in the States and abroad. First, though, we have to be able to admit when events occur that were unexpected, that didn't live up entirely to the ideas we might have had about things, and not turn off the tube because we don't like a certain opinion.

I think that's what Maher was really trying to say, that nobody on the liberal side will even LISTEN to another idea on the war, that we have a mindset and that's that.

[seabeyond]

97. shaking self loose, taking deep breathe

being non attached. it is always that the dems are asked to see the other side. how closed minded,. as we continually work our ass of to put ourselves in places so we can better see a solution. this will be the umpteenth time of bush creation we have to figure out what he has created and what we need to do to come to solution. and always, btw, bush doenst listen, makes another poor choice and a mess is created.

do tell, why the person with the power and making decisions are never held responsible. but yet again,. we wll adjust and see what is up

please dont create me in the msm bullshit and repug bllshit they are so good at giving me. kinda going off with the one dude against three, how dare you, how dare you dismiss what i say and tell me who i am

who is the one NOT listening

[Colorado Blue]

99. Hey - not dismissing what you say at all. I truly did not mean

to offend you and my comments weren't really directed at anyone in particular on this thread - rather to the overwhelmingly monolithic response to the show.

When something is monolithic that in and of itself makes me nervous.

Does this make sense? It's as though we are marching in lockstep, which isn't what individuality and liberalism is all about at all.

As far as good Democratic ideas foreign policy, even Kerry wasn't very articulate about that and Clinton, Gore, all of them seem to support free trade and globalization without addressing human rights issues or the issues concerning local tyrants or the issues of women's rights in Muslim countries.

Once again I am truly sorry if I got you upset.

[seabeyond]

100. i am not upset, didnt offend and i dont take personally

i started the thread because of exactly the feel of what you say. that is why i put out, and have been thinking about it. why i had to shake self to stillness, lol lol cause i am thinking. like you suggest.

and your posts are what is making me think. a good thing to me. i wondered too, with the three against one, if maybe, maybe i was missing something and doing exactly what you suggest

the thing that i have consistantly come to over these four years, it is a story is told by bushco, all facts disagree and then it is made to look like dems are not being unreasonable. it is funny in its outrageousness and work, how adept they are at doing this.

i listened last nite, and a lot of people talked last nite, and we revisited the past and the current. and i contend that no bush isnt right. i am going to hold to that.

i dont believe what maher is saying, i dont believe what bush administration is saying and i dont believe what media is saying.

i think they are lying.

[Colorado Blue]

107. Glad for the conversation! All the best.

[femme.democratique]

104. People, why are you surprised? The man loves Ann Coulter! Can you say SICK

He is surely a sex-crazed moron who has convinced himself that he is the shit. He occasionally has something funny to say, and seemed to be on track before the 2004 sElection. However, anyone who can set aside their personal sense of right and wrong (as evidenced by his love for the mAnn herself) has some serious mental issues to deal with. Libertarian my ass - more like Labiatarian since he seems to have a pussy-addiction problem....

Besides, check out that hooker-esque person Coco he was involved with, and subsequently accused of abuse - need I say more? I think Ms. Coco used the same sex change clinic as mAnn...

[devilgrrl]

25. Now he's making fun of the Italians

We shoot cars...

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

27. Maher has ALWAYS imbibed deeply of the Koolaid

He is a weak, craven little man who rides the coattails of the reigning sentiment, peeking out from behind them to sneer "Yeah, that's what I say too!" He thought Bush was going to lose so he skewed his jokes against him while keeping one foot planted firmly on the right. Now he's come home to his most comfortable roost. He's a friend of Coulter's, for god's sake. He supported Nader, fer cry-yi.

Whichever way the wind blows, Bill blows too.

[seabeyond]

31. i knew some of that

i never saw him as a promoter of dems that is for sure. but his view tonight surprised me

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

50. I see from another response that you're done with his show

It is sad to be disappointed by a seeming ally. I had hoped Maher would stay and fight the good fight because it seems so obvious - doesn't it? - just how much is at stake. But he puts his needs ahead of others'. He switches back and forth, then claims his right to be a devil's advocate.

I don't trust people who are habitual devil's advocates. I think one can have a mercurial mind and weigh many points of view, but unless one's values are based on something beyond one's own needs, it counts for nothing. That's why Jon Stewart and Keith Olbermann, to name two, can voice opinions I don't agree with yet still maintain respect. Both of them have a conscience, but all Bill Maher appears to have is a need for approval.

[seabeyond]

52. didnt feel like devils advocate

no, i just dont see any need to waste my time on listening to propaganda. cant believe all of news has been taken away from me. lordy, anyone with a voice that doesnt feed this crap to people.


and i am with you, jon and kieth, i like independent thinkers, but what maher said wasnt independent. it is too following whitehouse line. limbaugh, hannity

[seabeyond]

28. what is sad, i dont think he is saying this because of money

or viewership or his bosses. i think , i really think he believes this. and for me that is the saddest part of this. if it was just him spouting off to get people to watch, then that would be totally different.

[dennis4868]

30. it is because of viewership.....

week after week he is begging for conservative viewers....he pleads every weak for it.

[seabeyond]

32. thats true

i did see one show where he was asking for a more balanced audience

[robbedvoter]

29. back to PI on ABC: actors vs right wing commentators

I never trusted him - not even when he was so right on. I always remembered how he said that Limpballs was the only one standing up for his freedom of speech, not the hypocrite liberals (who were writing ABC to defend him).
A whore is a whore is a whore. Turn him off.

[seabeyond]

34. well, i am done with this show

was interesting. like i said, i havent been watching news so i didnt know the propaganda that was being fed to the people. i know now

[autorank]

33. seabeyond, Thanks, another show I won't feel bad about ignoring!

What a trip? This guy doesn't support Bush on the war. He got threatened or paid off. He's just a pathetic clown now. Maybe he'll join Carnivale as "The Geek."

[seabeyond]

35. lol lol that is true

generally i forget these shows and then say damn, i missed it. wont have to say damn anymore.

[autorank]

47. No damn more...to...mo more damn. 4 little letters yet so useful!

[latebloomer]

37. Man, that was so disturbing!

I have looked to this show to hear some truth ladened with humor. His turnaround tonight makes me want to barf.

My husband said, "You're overreacting, it's just a comedy show."

Thank you, DU!! I feel validated.

[seabeyond]

45. come back into our world

lol lol. that is what i was feeling. funny you

[latebloomer]

54. Thank you!

There's no place like home. . .

:hi:

[LoganW]

38. Are you sure

he is not being sarcastic?

[dennis4868]

41. yes....

he is been like this for the past 3-4 weeks and he was very serious....DISGUSTING...MAKES ME SICK.

ANOTHER SHOW WE CANNOT WATCH ANYMORE :-(

[seabeyond]

46. sure n/t

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

39. His live audience sounded stunned

They were pretty quiet, until Belzer said "how dare you" to the Muslim chick and they suddenly started applauding loudly.

[bilgewaterbill]

42. Well, that's it for him then.

I'm sick of wasting my time on this putz. He used to be funny, too.

[madfloridian]

44. I am glad I am not the only one now.

We have not been able to watch his show this season. I taped one, but never watched it except to verify something he said.

I am not one who thinks every so-called comedian has to agree with what I think, but when I find one just offensive I don't watch anymore.

[seabeyond]

49. i hadnt been catching his shows

i jsut happened to find it tonight. so this was my one show

[Julius Civitatus]

48. WORST... SHOW... EVER...

Those in the west coast beware. It sucked @ss.

The entire show was a Bush love-fest, with Belzer in the minority.

Then he invited that despicable Camile Paglia to spew more of her old shit.

But the ABSOLUTE WORST in the show was Bill Maher's disgusting, despicable, utterly uninformed joke on the shooting of Giulianna Sgrina. He basically blamed her for "speeding through US checkpoints."

I could have thrown the TV out the window, I swear.

[cynatnite]

51. I'll be sure not to watch the rerun

I normally forget to watch it but usually watch the rerun.

There are a couple things that could be going on.

1)He OD'd on kool-aid
2)He just got on shrub's payroll
3)He's doing it to get the conserv audience he's been begging for.
4)He's doing it to get the conserv audience he's been begging for so he can hopefully bring them into the light.
5)He's doing it because all along he's been a freeper and waiting for the right time to come out of the closet so to speak.

No matter which reason it is, I'm done with him.

[lonestarnot]

56. Nope just brainwashed stupidity people not shifted...

[BrklynLiberal]

57. I agree 100%. the only good things on the show were Belzer and

Barney ... I am cancelling HBO.

[dennis4868]

58. Another show.....

that wont be watched in my house....what is there left to watch?

Even Jon Stewart has drank some of the Kool-Aid!

[Julius Civitatus]

59. The Daily Show has been very tame lately

focusing only on trivial matters, leaving politics aside. Disappointing.

[seabeyond]

60. ya,......i am all the way to letterman at night before sleep

gosh, i use to be such a news watcher. i would have said how irresponsible i was a couple years ago talking to a person who didnt watch the news. geez, i would have said it 6 months ago. more challenging to get thru all the lies to see news, but i still felt it was important to stay informed.

i would have never thought i would be without tv news, a pulse on what is up in the country. wow

[gulfcoastliberal]

82. Seriously, I may cancel my HBO, too

I subscribed a couple of weeks ago just for this show; it appears I made a mistake. I can watch CNN or FOX if I want the latest Bush/RNC talking points.

[Paranoid_Portlander]

62. Maher's love for war trumps his disdain for Bush.

Maher has never met a war he didn't like. "I'm a hard-ass on war" he declared on one of his shows before the Iraqi war started. He also stated that the Vietnam War, which conveniently ended when Maher was 17, was a good thing. He has held these bellicose views for many years, while comfortably seated on his pampered "hard-ass".

[seabeyond]

68. i didnt know this, hm, thanks n/t

[Tactical Progressive]

63. Maher likes to tweak people's ideological presumptions

He does it to both sides, but it always comes out much more anti-Republican because their ideologies are so dishonestly built to support whatever they want, that pretty much just talking about reality mocks Republican actions. But he does do it to Democratic ideological improprieties as well.

The problem here is that he's been going way far afield in trying to get a gotcha on Democrats. His support of privatizing Social Security is that kind of tweak - going against the current distrust of SS privatization. Unfortunately, his sense of it comes right out of the Republican illusion handbook, purposely conflating the presumed investment advantages of the stock market with privatizing the safety net. Like Barney Frank tried to explain to Maher, which he didn't really seem to want to understand, the SSA could diversify somewhat into the stock market if that was the impetus. Clinton said that too. I've said here that if it comes down to politically having to do something with SS, if raising the cap is politically insufficient, Dems should additionally agree ONLY to let the SSA, not individuals or Wall Street, invest some in the stock market. That permanently decouples the stock market lure from the private account destruction of Social Security.

In short, Maher got his tweak on the conventional disdain for SS privatization, but he wasn't smart enough to see through the Repub's tricks to do it. He could have looked smart and evenhanded. Instead he ends up looking the jerk.

And of course absolving Bush for lying incessantly to start a war, which deserves only negative credit, in addition to the ridiculous presumption that Bush's intentions were the betterment of mankind, an equally absurd contrivance, he ends up having to Jim Jones himself to get his gotcha. I believe Clinton, Gore, or anyone else besides BushCo would have had the Mid East in a far better situation politically given 9/11 to work with than Bush has done with his lies of aggression. The rape-cancer metaphor someone here came up with seems closer to the moral truth.

What I do think Bush has done correctly is the one thing I wish Dems would take away from this whole sorry chapter in American history: do what you think is right and tell everybody else to go fuck themselves.

[madfloridian]

66. He can tweak his you know what.

He appears to have no conscience or sense of right or wrong.

[seabeyond]

69. do what you think is right and tell .

everybody else to go fuck themselves.

ooosh that is a scary thought seeing the result. generally i would like the idea, but then a person listens to no one, only self. guess you would need a clever guy to allow that rule, lol.

like your post. thanks for info

[Tactical Progressive]

72. I wish Clinton had done that

with his political skills.

I hope the next Dem President does it.

It's alot harder for us with the media firmly against Progressives and always siding with the easy, ugly reactionaries.

[seabeyond]

75. in the climate we have created by the media,

limbaugh ect.........gosh, i just cannot see them able to. and not that we will have the senate house and whitehouse. now did clinton do nafta cause he likes the idea or because it was exponential

[Tactical Progressive]

77. I think it was some of both for NAFTA

Clinton believes in free trade. If someone like him were around to ride herd on it, it wouldn't be turning out like it is.

[seabeyond]

80. i am not opposed to it

with rules and balances

[Tactical Progressive]

87. I agree

And I have no doubt that Clinton does too.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

76. but that isnt a reality that is just a story

being told. lordy have mercy

[Tactical Progressive]

78. 14 thousand casualties

And you don't care about America.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

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85. Deleted message

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[Tactical Progressive]

84. No, you care for what the troops get for you.

The people who want the troops out of harms way are the ones who care about them, not the people putting them in harms way. By definition you care more about what they get you than about them.

That's the trade you're more than willing to make. You can call it a fair trade, but you can't say you care about the troops as much as the people who don't want them in the line of fire. Simple logic shows you don't.

[seabeyond]

86. then why arent you the first to be angry at bush

for what he is doing to the troops. not providing them with the equipment they need. allowing greed to make his decisions in iraq, not how to bring peace to the area. that would allow the troops to come home. how easy the right say they care about the troops yet continually turn their back on them to support bush blindly

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

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[seabeyond]

91. i really want to hear what this person had to say

anyone around that read this last night? i went to bed. so tired. but i was curious what a response this section would get. i am curious because i want to understand and i want to hear what a pespective of this poster actually respond. all i hear from republicans on this question, of turning back on troops by voting for bush,............i have never recieved an answer. they pee their pants, or they run away

i want to know, how supporting bush poor decisions that cost lives is supporting troops

[Stop_the_War]

92. This is news?

He got sucked into the kool-aid a long time ago...before the election on CNN he said he wanted the U.S. to invade Iran.

[seabeyond]

93. his voice wasnt the only one

as i have stated above, i havent watched news. my understanding is msm is talking this. and on maher show there were three to one saying this.

what was significant to me is seeing the sweeping of this talk. betcha by monday the "people" will be saying this too. i think this is interesting. dont you

[NNN0LHI]

103. Why doesn't he join Chimpy's commandos and head on over there?

He ain't scared or nothing is he?

Don

[stillcool]

105. One by one by one....

they all fall down. i don't know what happened to Bill, but its been creeping in for awhile. Several Larry King appearances revealed his not so clear take on various issues. Last weeks show with Prof. Churchill, was a disappointment as well. i didn't watch last nite, and i won't be tuning in again. i've had enough bullsh*t to last for the rest of my life. If it doesn't inform or entertain, but only leaves more despair and confusion, i don't want it. Consequences await us all.

[norml]

106. Just so much posturing for the sake of his career.

He wants more air time on the cable news networks. And because he thinks it's funny. Next stop, Branson.

[Bouncy Ball]

108. Well thank God I still have all my brain cells left and a heart beating

in my chest and have not been replaced as a pod person, so that means I'm not supporting bush.

Maher's a whore, just like the rest of 'em. Furthermore, he's a confused whore, there's no worse kind.

[alarimer]

109. it certainly sounds like it

I didn't watch and probably won't watch his "conservative" show next week. I don't get what he is trying to do. Obviously he is so afraid of being cancelled that he has completely gone over to the other side. Oh well, I usually forget to watch anyway.