This Country is gone....first time panic has really set in.............

[DemocracyInaction]

I'm the typical American who believed that a lot of this alarmist talk is just "nutcake" talk. But when I saw the reports on out trade deficit in January, I knew this country was over. It was the second worst trade deficit in our history.

Tell me. What the fuck is an American to do if they need a stove, refrigerator, etc.?? These are things that take an assembly line to produce and those assembly lines have all been taken out of this country. We have to buy "foreign". We may have choices in clothing--but only the rich do. The average American can't clothe their children at the granoloa shop...they have Wal-Mart and nothing else. And all this applies to everything we consume except goddamn isurance, credit cards, etc. which is about the only "product" this paper country produces anymore.

Yet the combination of this deficit and our national debt and our personal debt to buy these things and our devalued (headed for the sewer because we don't produce shit) dollar, means we will collapse and definitely within the lifetime of anyone here even if you are 80 years old. NO ONE EVER THOUGHT OF THIS WHEN THEY DID THE GODDAMN NAFTA AND OTHER SUCH AGREEMENTS, DID THEY??. Those staples that Americans need to live are NOW about 99.99% imported. We don't produce them here anymore. The world has us by the balls and are going to laugh with joy as they squeeze them...unless we want to cook over a fire, have no refigeration, no washing machines/dryers, no choice in cars, no affordable clothing and now, no affordable food. Tell me what we are going to export to balance it?? The Christian right has all but shut down the next generation of intellectual research that is needed to keep us afloat. We will soon be overtaken in that department, also. We are the rich uncle who has blown it all and is too stupid to know that tomorrow he will be living in the streets like the people he snoots down on.

[JDPriestly]

1. Kick! Thanks for the post

[chlamor]

2. Way Gone-Check This

Mar 12, 2005

China, Greenspan rub salt
in dollar wound

The US dollar was struggling near a two-month low against the euro on Friday as the market braced for fresh trade data that were likely to show a further widening of the trade gap. As if this weren't trouble enough for the besieged greenback, US Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan stirred up the market Thursday night saying foreign investors would reduce their US asset holdings at some point, while new findings came to light that China is indeed doing so.

Saying he is not "overly" concerned about the record US trade gap or heavy consumer debt, Greenspan said the budget deficit gives him the shivers. The US current account deficit widened to a record US$164.7 billion from July through September, the most recent figures available, equivalent to 5.6% of gross domestic product (GDP). "Our current account deficit and household debt burdens do not strike me as overly worrisome, but that is certainly not the case for our fiscal deficit," Greenspan told the Council on Foreign Relations in New York. "Our fiscal prospects are, in my judgment, a significant obstacle to long-term stability, because the budget deficit is not readily subject to correction by market forces that stabilize other imbalances."

According to the high priest of finance, international investors have only modestly shifted their portfolios away from dollar assets so far. But he warned that they might at some point decide their portfolios are too dollar-centric, ominously adding that if the dollar keeps dropping, foreign exporters may start looking elsewhere.

Greenspan's comments came close on the heels of Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's startling remark on Thursday that Japan needs to diversify its foreign-exchange reserves, reviving fears of Asian central banks cutting their giant dollar reserves. Any move by Japan, which has the largest foreign-exchange reserve in the world ($840 billion), to reduce its dollar holdings could be disastrous for the greenback. The dollar has already been dropping against the yen for four straight weeks now. Koizumi's statement, though later qualified by his finance minister, will only prolong the agony.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/GC12Dj01.html

[DemocracyInaction]

6. If this fuck tells foreigners to reduce their US asset holdings THEN

..I have a real big question: Who the fuck is he and these Republcians working for?? Could this be why I'm hearing on all these financial networks that one should invest in China and other countries but not here. And these are the fuckers we give tax breaks to (and assume the debt there from on our shoulders) so that they can "invest in the USA". Time to take back this country, enslave these corporations and cancel these goddamn trade agreements. Fuck these pigs in our Congress and Oval Office (icluding Bill Clinton) who are traitors to the American people.

[lonestarnot]

16. I'm with you baby except for Bill Clinton! Yes I know NAFTA... China

took another dump on us this month too with the final nail to the textile industry. Dumped more goods last month than were allowed all year last year!

[Just Me]

46. DIA,...you, I, we cannot afford to "panic".

Breath. Be steady. Stay focused.

We are PULLING back the pendulum. If we "react" rather than ACT on reason, we'll only push the neoCON pendulum further.

The greatest surprise to the neoCON scheme will be a rationale offense rather than a reactionary defense that they are trying to incite.

Breath. Be stready. Stay focused.

[itzamirakul]

114. You mention the OUTSOURCING of jobs but what I am now finding out

is about the INSOURCING of foreign workers.

Companies right here in the USA are bringing in thousands of "temporary" workers from Somalia and India and making American workers train them and then firing the American workers and KEEPING THE TEMPORARY WORKERS RIGHT HERE IN THIS COUNTRY on "guest visas" that have no time limit. these workers can stay here as long as the company says they are needed.

Some 5000 temporary workers have replaced American workers at Dell computer, Tyson chicken and other plants.

Read about it here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7160832/

[opusprime]

9. IMO, the deficit and insane spending by the GOP...

Are the winning causes of the next several elections. It has become quite apparent to most Americans that the Repubs cannot be trusted with the purse strings of our economy.

I'm going out on a limb here. I know everyone blames the tax-cuts for this monstrous budget shortfall, I dont, and I dont think criticizing the tax-cuts are a winning position.

I think the fact that Bush has increased federal spending by more than 30% across the board is the winning argument. What the hell ever happened to the "Party of Small Government"? Our already huge Federal government is growing exponentially under Republican control.

Dont get me wrong here, I think the tax-cuts were reckless and shortsighted, but lob them in with this enormous increase in spending and you really have an economic disaster at hand.

And lets face it, once the real estate bubble burst, were headed for Bush Recession Part II. Were only a few interest rate raises away from a total depression. And my company has had a hiring freeze for about 3 years now, so I know the job situation isnt getting any better.

[Syncronaut Seven]

105. Nobodies ever going to know

They own the press. I know more and more people who are now afraid of the internet because of the cognizant dissonance.

They get freaked out any time you suggest the milk provided by the glass tit might be sour. In reality, it's cyanide.

Re read Farenheit 451, it's a short book but it generates more chills than a Stephen King novel. Gotta go meet with my family in the parlor now, White Clown is on.

I can't believe my fellow Americans are THAT GOD DAMN STUPID!!!!!

[tridim]

3. The scary part is that nobody in power seems to care

Do they not understand what's happening? Or do they want it to happen? Both scenarios are equally distressing.

[AuntiBush]

8. Oh, they know!

Repuks = Drank/Bought into the KOOL AID!

I think some are afraid the TRUTH will come out on how they got into office; other's are FALWELL FREAKS, still other's are baffled. And most of our Democrats are fighting night and day against all odds. Only a few Dem's LIBERMANN and the likes are SELLOUTS! The rest, well... I dunno.

What the hell did happen? It's more than distressing. It's down-right frightening.

[lonestarnot]

17. 19 of the other in the house to be exact! n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

51. You're right

I think that's why they took over the media and try to silence those who try to tell the truth. It started, I think, with the whole Kennedy assisination with silencing people and lies etc. It's really pathetic how they work. It disgusts me. :puke:

[rocktop15]

117. Newsflash: Clinton put NAFTA into effect

Get out of denial. The Democrats are just as much part of the problem as the Republicans.

[chlamor]

15. Of course they don't care-They understand what is happening quite well

To loot the Treasury-To suck all the energy out of social services-To send all the cash to the Pentagon (They are the Pentagon)- To destroy any vestige of humanity in our already iffy culture- They know exactly what they are doing.

They are predators.

[lonestarnot]

18. Predators of the most vicious type! n/t

[Robeson]

33. Yep.

[Frederik]

90. Read this?

http://www.missouri.edu/~quinnl/news/almartin.html

Old Iran-Contra operative Al Martin about the frauds of the Bush 41 adm and how Clinton got dizzy when he realized how bad things were. If they were bad then, they're worse now. Don't know how reliable he is, but it doesn't sound too unlikely.

[amazona]

101. jebus things were TERRIBLE then -- Martin was right

I still have painful memories of the era. Things are not that bad yet. After 12 years of Reagan/Bush, greater New Orleans area was literally in ruins. The oil industry abandoned us, and the low paying tourism industry became no. 1. There were 50,000 boarded up houses in the area. The second largest owner of residential real estate in the United States was the Resolution Trust Company -- which took over all the foreclosures as a result of the S&L collapse. So many people I knew lost their homes and jobs. Many of those people I've never been able to find again, I think maybe the older (as in their 40s and 50s older, not just 60s-plus) must have died for lack of ability to legally buy food and shelter. A lot of people I knew got into crack either as pain killer or as a way to pick up extra money. Just a terrible, terrible time. Things are no where near as bad yet but I'm sure they will be "if this goes on."

Back in the day, one thing I learned how to do was to identify wild foods, grow easy-to-grow foods that weren't land or labor intensive (at least learn to grow mint for the vitamin C), and how to eat beans and rice without complaint. You don't need a stove if the stove goes out. Seek out the site on the internet that tells how to make a solar cooker out of junk -- it works and it won't burn down your house like using cooking over fire will. You'll find that when money is tight that cooking over open fire is too expensive anyway -- wood is expensive, charcoal is expensive, etc. Get pullets (female chickens) for the eggs but no roosters, you don't want your neighbors to find out you have fowl and force you to get rid of them. Eggs are important because sufficient fat calories to survive are almost impossible to get from wild or home-grown food. Egg yolk becomes a survival matter.

We're smart people here, we need to put our heads together and share ideas about how to survive. We should not panic, because there are some things we can do to keep alive on little money.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[ashmanonar]

115. this is fucking FRIGHTENING.

there have been two things i've read that have really scared the living daylights out of me, and this is one of them.

the other is Christian Mafia

both of these together are like a bad horror movie. these people really have taken over the USA, and are making efforts to take over the world. if the world economy goes down, these people will be the only ones to have power. what will happen then?

if you think the world is in serious trouble, you're deluded...the world is FUCKED.

[Mr_Spock]

102. Bushco & his nutty followers are loving every minute of it

Yay! They will need us for thier every need - and we can joyously brainwash every last one of 'em!

[American liberal]

122. bankrupting the treasury to be able to do away with ALL New Deal

programs. I read it here last year. it's happening right under our noses and I feel powerless to do anything about it.

As for the trade deficit (OP), I share your concern. China now owns about 40% of U.S. debt in the form of treasury bonds. It is predicted that Asia will become the economic super power of the 21st century. Based on my very limited understanding of economics, China can't squeeze too tightly, however, because they need non-saving, product-consuming fat American pigs to keep their own economy brisk. If U.S. economy collapses, it'll take a lot of countries down with it.

Peace,
AL

[yeababy]

4. You are right on! I was listening to a speaker the other day and

he was talking about the national debt and the value of the dollar in respect to the euro. There are high level talks going on all the time in the financial circles about what to do about the euro. Warren Buffet just made millions betting agains the dollar. The speaker I was listening to talked about how much debt the U.S. is carrying. It's amazing! I look at all these poeple buying their SUV's and $500,000 houses. So stupid.

[newyawker99]

13. Hi yeababy!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[lonestarnot]

19. Velcome yeababy to DU the knowing place....This is MY amerika or

whatever!

[jdots]

5. agree

and you just scraped the surface of the vacume.For every job lost add a familly member or two.

[AuntiBush]

7. They all drank the Kool-Aide - not meant to be funny!

I was thinking the same thing earlier this week. I don't want to tell you what I think it is... everyone, and I mean everyone I know says this administration is the evilest, wickedest, by far worse ever and some of the smartest people on earth that I happen to know say, WE are SCREWED!

Hang on to what little money you have. Only buy essentials. Who knows what's coming. And as far as the Freeping Repuks. You tell me and we'll both know. Gay marriage, and values is way more important that our country run by THUGS, THIEVES, Constitutonal GUTTERS, the FILTY RICHES of them all who take our tax money and pay propoganda machines to speak for them and still the holier-then-thou's think he's NOT the ANTI-CHRIST.

God save America is all I can say. Know just how ya feel. Our poor Democrat (most of them) on the hill. Imagine what they're going through.

[DemocracyInaction]

14. AuntiBush--regarding your Christian references

As a lifelong Christian of the mainstream mode (not the freaks), I literally took out the Bible two days ago and started to read ((thought I must have had a stroke from what I was always taught). I picked Paul's letters to the Romans because 1) without this dude Christianity would have died on the vine---he's the one that saddled up and spread it; and 2) his letters are at least a direct link to Jesus while other gospels are things created decades if not centuries later from oral tradition rather than direct "I was there and chowed down at the last supper" witnesses. It only took like one page to confirm the "faith of my fathers". These right wing freaks are wrong, evil and bringing this place to it's knees. I can see the day when Americans literally burn down the churches because of what they have done to us.

[FreedomAngel82]

53. Yes

I'm with you as a Christian as well. Paul's letters are the best. All these people who claim to be Christian are going about everything the wrong way which is really sad.

[Arianrhod]

79. I'm obviously not a Christian

but I think that Paul's letter to the Romans is one of the most important and significant spiritual manuscripts in the world.

It's concise, it's reasoned, it's passionate, it's liberating. And it sums up the whole of Christian doctrine in less than 20 pages.

An amazing work.

[Mr_Spock]

104. Sounds like something I must study in detail - links?

I want to study this more carefully after what y'all have just posted...

[Arianrhod]

107. The easiest online source I know of is Bible Gateway.

www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible/

[applegrove]

10. The whole world is changing. It looks worse from your point of view

because you are led by delusionals who are convinced they can beat the changes. Instead of informing you.. they mislead you. You end up less prepared.

You would not be in such a panic if you had a representative government in the WH. Instead of an actor for the elites.

[lonestarnot]

20. And who's government are you behold'n too? n/t

[applegrove]

38. Canada n/t

[lonestarnot]

47. If it wasn't so cold there.....nay I've got to stay and fight! The home

land needs the true patriots ya know!

[applegrove]

59. Yeure a grette lad und a better warrior - laddy n/t

[lonestarnot]

74. Well this is the best compliment I've ever had on DU! Most think I'm a

pain in the ars me thinks...Here's to you friend!:toast:

[DemocracyInaction]

23. Jesus, Apple, you are so on the money

I have been so amazed at how governments in Europe and Canada, etc. are so in tune and working with and responsible to their citizens. If they aren't, their citizens flush them. Here we have allowed an absolute monarcy of the rich and their representatives in Congress. They are no more in tune nor responsible to the average citizen than the aristocrats of the French Revolution who found their heads handed to them in a basket. We don't lob off their heads. We buy them more jewels for their crowns. Our problem is that we have so many totally ignorant people here. That allows these "rich but stupid bastards" into power who are the inbred aristocracy trying to save their useless hides. Euope knows them. They suffered under them. They got rid of them and they have not allowe their governments to ever, ever be like them. Our dumb have to be reduced to midevil slaves before it will ever sink into their dim brains---have to compete with our "reality" shows, you know. But when they can't afford the TV hookup, perhaps then they will be forced to use their brains for entertainment purposes and actually "think".

[lonestarnot]

25. Taxation w/o representation....How bout a massive stop pay on tax of any

kind? just kidding the IRS is worse than the homeland security because they KNOW where we are!

[Arianrhod]

83. I'm not so sure about that.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that European governments are more in tune with their people. In fact, I think they're rather confused about what they really want. France recently enacted a law banning all outward religious expression, but now they're screeching about clothing ads somehow offending the Vatican. They're not in much better stead than we are, IMO.

And as for the French Revolution, remember also that ours was just the opposite of theirs. In France, the people rose up on their own and deposed the monarchy. In America, the rich aristocracy fomented the people into a rebellion they really didn't want. George Washington's mother considered him a traitor, and never forgave him.

That's the real problem here. Americans love celebrity and riches and aristocracy and notoriety. A quick surf through the 500 channels on your satellite TV would serve to support that claim. :)

My feeling, unfortunately, is that there is no real way to oppose or change this situation. Lots of people on here talk about how we were in similar conditions before, and always got through them. That postulate is not completely accurate. Never in our history have we been at the mercy of a single-party system that owns absolutely everything. How can we use that system to effect change, when the whole thing is established to resist change? I'm afraid I have no answer.

I tend, therefore, to agree with Mike Ruppert: I will help who I can, I will persuade those who are openly seeking, and I will live my own life as an example of what a human being can be, to the best of my ability. But I no longer will actively seek to change minds.

[donco6]

106. I know - hard to imagine . . .

. . . that the majority in the US can be more ignorant than the French peasants of the Revolution. Mind-boggling.

[applegrove]

119. French peasants didn't face propaganda! n/t

[AuntiBush]

11. OUR VOTES - Check out this site.

These folks are trying to start a NATIONWIDE voter communication thing, where we watchdog our own votes. Its' all we have left.

It's on another discussion forum here at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x342197.

[lonestarnot]

22. Thanks for the link AuntiBush n/t

[Lisabtrucking]

12. I know!!!! What the hell is wrong with the repugs? these are jobs

That Americans once did. America is in deep trouble, not only because of our government, but also because of the stupid ignorance of the right.

[Gyre]

21. But this is good for the Corporate "botton-line"

And THAT, is pretty much all that's important to this admin. I'd have thought this was self-evident by now.

Gyre

[tubbacheez]

24. Maybe do like Gandhi did.

And start a "homespun" movement to reject imports and make basic necessities locally.

[BigBearJohn]

26. Wow. Can you imagine? BUY NO FUCKING IMPORTED GOODS

What the hell would happen.

[lonestarnot]

28. Colllaapssadapdapse! n/t

[BigBearJohn]

29. I can do it. And WILL do it. NO MORE FUCKING IMPORTS

[BigBearJohn]

31. I'M MAD AS HELL AND AINT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!!!

[lonestarnot]

35. You go BigBearJohn! It is difficult to buy nonimports as American's

don't make anything any more. lol

[BigBearJohn]

121. oh well, might as well roll over and die then

[BigBearJohn]

36. I should have taken them more seriously: "Look for the union label"

[Gloria]

72. Union Label--the one that has that song that Al Gore LIED TO US

ABOUT???? THAT SONG????? (sarcasm off)

[BigBearJohn]

61. kick

[tubbacheez]

37. In line with Gandhi's method, maybe start with one really simple...

... and very symbolic item.

In Gandhi's case, he focused on cotton. British factory-made cotton fabric was widely recognized as higher quality and less expensive than Indian homespun.

But the industry was oppressive. India's poor grew the cotton. The British colonial government negotiated cheap sales to British companies. And the British companies made a huge profit selling the fabric back to India's poor.

By cutting out the British completely, Gandhi gained momentum for his eventual popular uprising. And without violence, too.



If you're going to run with this idea, maybe start with clothing. Or some basic necessity that Americans could easily produce here, but haven't due to cheaper mass production abroad.

[BiggJawn]

69. A lot of us would starve, run around naked and barefoot, and smell.

" BUY NO FUCKING IMPORTED GOODS"
Well, that leaves Insurance, Advertising, and some astronomically priced "Artisan Goods" available for purchase.

When was the last time you saw a pair of shoes "Made in USA"?

Shit, I'll bet even Ivory Soap is imported.

[ornotna]

85. Dexter and New Balance Still make shoes in the US

That's just two, there are more.

[BiggJawn]

95. OK, so I can run around naked, but shod.

Twenty years ago, when the cry was "Help Tibet! Boycott China!", I thought "Yes, I'll support that."
Now, remember, I was making $6 an hour, having finally escaped Minimum Wage Hell.
Even THEN, China had a huge share of the US market.
Non-China goods were out of my financial reach.

Oh, by the way.....
I am holding in my gnarled hand an equally gnarled Dexter deck shoe.

The label on the tongue says "Handcrafted in the Dominican Republic"...

[American liberal]

123. NB actually outsources about 60% of its manufacturing to South Korea,

but it still does SOME of its manufacturing in the U.S.

[Canadian Socialist]

71. No imported goods?

Well, goodbye to your oil, water and electricity from Canada. As well, we just might stop that flood of comics <lol>. And, oh, did I mention that even though your borders are "closed" to Canadian beef, beef ranchers in the U.S. are buying up live beef from Canada at a cut rate price and importing them (trying to make a whole bunch of money). These are the same people that have got an injunction AGAINST Canadian beef? And, did you know that Canadian beef is subjected to much stricter tests than American beef. As well, maybe you don't want our lumber. Which the American government as taxed at 27% rate. Well, if you don't want it, we are pretty sure the rest of world does./end of rant

[lonestarnot]

27. No more china shit for me! Wearing clothes I have, will buy no MORE

make em or do without!

[tubbacheez]

40. It takes some getting used to, but it can be done.

I buy maybe 1 article of clothing every 3 months.

Good for my budget. And keeping demand down should help keep prices down for other people.


And while I haven't exactly been a stickler on country of origin, I do try to buy from local businesses instead of big chain retailers.

[bobbieinok]

49. check out thrift stores....in Tulsa there are some really good buys

on clothing........some of my best dressed female colleagues (and best off) shopped at Salvation Army, Goodwill, etc........check out the fancy cars at some of these places

[solinvictus]

73. Thrift Stores...

My SO and I recently purchased a TON of clothes at several local thrifts for less than $100. I bought Docker's khakis, several casual shirts by GAP, Old Navy, and Banana Republic. She had many dresses, shirts, skirts, and such. I bought a pair of Rockport wing tips for $4 that were practically new. We furnished out entire living room with a couch, two chairs, a recliner, two end tables, and a coffee table for less than $220 at a local Salvation Army. What's ironic is that people are likely STILL PAYING INTEREST on the clothes and such we purchased at 80-90% off retail.

[amazona]

103. this is easier for slim people, me thinks

I buy everything at thrifts, and I can tell much of it is unworn since some still has the tags from the previous store.

However, my partner, who is fat, rarely find anything decent at the thrifts and we've tried many.

Not sure why although I have my theories.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[solinvictus]

111. I wear a 44 waist and 32 inseam

I can find khakis pretty easily. I actually found some great hunting pants in my size as well.

[tubbacheez]

124. depends on the local demographics.

My local thrift stores carry lots of large sizes. And much of the selection varies throughout the year.

Luck is a big factor, I've noticed.

[FreedomAngel82]

55. That's how I am

I only buy clothes twice a year if I really need some new clothes and I try to buy things on sell and from places I know that aren't real big on republican donations.

[Robeson]

42. And as others have said, the average Repuke has drank....

...the Kool Aid. I used to go back an forth with a Repuke I know. For a Repuke, a very educated guy. We'd send articles to each other. I also sent him articles of the dollars decline vs. the Euro. Last time I sent him an article about the decline of the dollar, he told me he just really didn't believe it, to lose his e-mail, and to never write him again. It wasn't like I was making anything up, I was just giving him the facts. They would rather live in denial, than to face reality.

[leanin_green]

76. I'll start checking out the second hand stores and the like. Sometimes. .

you can find some really good clothes there. Hell, most everyone wears jeans, t-shirts and ball caps anymore anyway. I've found some really nice suits at thrift stores. Mix and match and valaah, fashion trend!

[Bitter Betty]

30. We are so fucked

Just think of all the debt that Americans owe to finance our fancy lifestyles & what will happen when our creditors come calling. Yet the media won't touch it because economics isn't sexy enough to bring in ratings. All I see on TV is Michael Jackson showed up to court wearing his pajamas! Excuse me while I vomit.

[hootinholler]

32. No, this is a temporary condition

If you have followed the playbook at newamericancentury.org then you will know that we will soon own all these countries where our manufacturing jobs are.

I'm not scared, uh uh, not me, {whistling} nope, not at all, what was that?

-Hoot

:evilgrin:

[lonestarnot]

34. Hoot ya poot this is serious stuff. People are getting it! n/t

[hootinholler]

63. It's about damned time!

Now how do we enlighten the rest of the people?

-Hoot

[lonestarnot]

75. Shit just keep trying I guess, I threw the towel in on em once tonight....

but guess that is not wise!

[hootinholler]

80. Well it took me a long time to get it

Even when my intuition told me to go dig. I just didn't know what to dig for until just before the last election.

Peace,
-Hoot

[lonestarnot]

81. Peace Hoot....something gave me hives tonight, benadryl mak'n me

sleepy hitt'n the hay. Goodnight.

[DU_ONE]

39. Check Out the Articles in Economy, Budget, Taxes & Jobs

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=114

Politics is about who is in power to controls the money, tax dollars. Always was, alwasy will be.

[firefox]

41. Congressmen not calling for impeachment...

tells it all. We have a war criminal in the WH and nobody, but nobody, in Congress has called for *'s impeachment. There is a total breakdown of government.

The government keeps talking about educating the children. How about the education of adults in the fourth R- Reality?

[Robeson]

43. See post #42 I wrote above. They don't even want to live in the...

...real world.

[DemocracyInaction]

45. Robeson---OMG--it's not like you were sharing an "opinion" that

could be thought of in a thousand differnt ways. You were, in essence, just reading him the financial news. It's like refusing to believe the amount of the national debt. And you know what?? Unfortunately this is how a whole shitpot of our citizens are. They think we are gaziilonaires and just can buy and sell the whole planet or take it over and have no debt or problems and Jesus is with us and we will all retire in Florida and have good stuff forever and ever. My only satisfaction is watching them shatter, scream and demand that their government help them (oohhhh, you mean the government you put into place that doesn't care whether common man lives or dies??).

[lonestarnot]

48. No way... they can't even get that far! Ostrich syndrome

[FreedomAngel82]

56. Yep

I think the thing is republicans are in control of everything. Even if someone tried to call for impeachment they'd be attacked so badly their political career would probably be over. That's why 2006 is important.

[EVDebs]

44. The Free Market Ideology ignores the business cycle's downside n/t

[Robeson]

54. Ah Yes, or what I like to call "The Chauncey Gardner" economic....

...theory. We now have Winter! But after Winter, Spring and growth, then we steady ourselves and reap our rewards in Summer! Then fall warns us of the approach of Winter....then Spring!

Of course their ideology reflects their ignorance - or arrogance - as if Nation-States are permanent things written in stone. The next cycle may just cylce right on out of the good ol' US of A, and leave us too far behind.

[carpediem]

108. I loved that movie

one of my all time favorites

[FreedomAngel82]

50. I agree

I agree on Walmart and the clothing. All the really great clothes are all really small and people only cater to the small size people. *sigh*
Nothing is ever made here anymore like you said. It is sad. :( Here's a big :kick:

[stillcool]

52. Good article 'from the wilderness' that.....

http://copvcia.com/free/ww3/031005_globalcorp.shtml#0

pushed me over the edge last night. I have felt overwhelmed before, but not to this degree. Every time I read a post about 2006, I can not even contemplate the possibility of another election. We are being set-up in such a precise and deliberate manner. What made no sense, is forming an image that is unacceptable, and yet unavoidable. My greatest wish is for the shoe to drop. I'd rather deal with the after-math than wait for the inevitable.
On the up-side is that families, communities, and states will need to strengthen just to survive. Might actually strengthen democratic values, while fundies will have the chance to learn about them for the first time.

[Jose Diablo]

57. This isn't new

The folks in the IMF, WTO been pulling shit like this on third world countries for at least 30 years now. Why ya think there were so much violence and protesting at those WTO meetings before Bu$h got in. It is the international investment bankers. Has been all along. They left USA alone before because they needed time to set all this up and someplace to 'invest' the money they stole. Now they want it all. Europe will be next after they take us down. Bu$h is just the current 'front' man.

Does 9-11 make sense now? It is indeed a war, on us.

I am sorry, the game is rigged, they will not leave voluntarily.

[Al-CIAda]

116. Indeed Diablo....indeed.... -eom

[Mist]

118. Yes, a war on us! America as the world's biggest 3rd world nation!

And what's truly evil is they wrap themselves in the flag and pretend to be patriotic. Anybody who would do this to their own country has forgotten what patriotism is, if they ever knew. The destruction of the America I knew...

[many a good man]

58. Deficits don't matter

Face it: we already have an imaginary economy. We have gone from being a manufacturing powerhouse to an economy based on Financial Services. Our prosperity is built on the recycling of debt. We don't produce things any more, we service debt (and make $$$ off it).

The good news is that the free flow of capital has made the world much more interdependent. Our competitors are reluctant to twist the knife because they would have to suffer some adjustment pain just like we will. At some point Europe or Asia will decide its worth it...

[catzies]

113. You get my totally unofficial "best line of the week award." Good one:

"Our prosperity is built on the recycling of debt."

Thank you.

[meganmonkey]

60. Justremember that this is precisely why you have to keep fighting.

I won't try to convince you that it isn't that bad because I think it probably is.

But it isn't the end of the world. Just maybe the end of the world as we know it. It'll all change again and again, and hopefully everyone will be better off in the long run.

That is what we have to fight for. Making sure the result of this (catastrophe?) is better than what we have now.

I feel it is like a pendulum. It can only swing so far in one direction before it finally starts going the other way. It may be bad but I think you are right in saying it will be soon. And all that means is it will start getting better soon too.

I hope and I pray everyday.

KEEP HOPE ALIVE!!!

and a big DU :grouphug:

[grasswire]

62. there's one thing you can do...

...and that's buy used. Plenty of wonderful used items are available, in every category. Clothing, appliances, furniture, home decor, linens, cars.....everything!

At least that way you're starving the beast of planned obsolescence and outsourcing.

I went to a couple of estate sales today. I could have furnished a home out of them for very little money, and with a lot of pizazz.

[buzzard]

65. Not to mention that much of it is much better made. I consciously

stopped buying anything made in China a couple of years ago. I never did like shopping anyway except in a garden centre.

[cry baby]

64. Scary that Taiwan is #1 in technology now, we are #5. China has bought

almost all of our debt. We have the biggest trade deficit in history, especially with China. WTF?

[enid602]

66. government spending

I read a year or so ago that Bush was the only President in history to have never used the line-item veto. Defense spending has gone from $150 billion annually to $500 billion so far during Bush's tenure. Pork spending has gone up substantially as well. Many think that Bush and the fundies want our trade and gov't spending deficits to continue to skyrocket, as the world community (our creditors) will eventually force us to cut back. Given this administration's proven ability to instill fear, all monies in the resulting smaller budget will be spent on defense. The populist will have to depend on churches for needs previously met by the Feds. Welcome to Iran!!!!!

[katinmn]

67. Venezeuela and Iran have a strategic alliance against us

and they had a press conference to make sure everyone is clear on that. I think our MSM missed the story, though.

The EU has warmed to China and lifted the arms ban while the US arms Taiwan with high tech weapons.

It's a crazy, mixed up world -- thanks to Bush.

[oblivious]

68. And you can throw in China, Russia and India.

Not against the U.S., but certainly strongly pro-Iran and pro-Venezuela.

[lonestarnot]

77. And possibly Turkey...and we have bases there...n/t

[Hoping4Change]

70. Many Americans have always assumed that corporations have

their interests at heart and have viewed unions as the enemy. Unions have indeed been the enemy but they've been the enemy of corporations because they were at the forefront of improving the lot of workers since the turn of the century.

Globalization has allowed corporations to circumvent unions and put workers back where corporations want them...on their knees.

[lonestarnot]

78. Knees will only take so much bend'n n/t

[solinvictus]

82. Those who make peaceful reform impossible..

make violent revolution inevitable. Welcome to 2005 and according to the Chinese curse, we do indeed live in interesting times.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donheld]

86. I wish i could disagree with you

but i'm afraid you are right on the money.

[L.A.dweller]

87. It is globalization

not just NAFTA. NAFTA is a trade agreement between Canada, the United States and Mexico.

[dxstone]

88. ...it's been a long time comin'... (an encouraging thought)

Seems to me, anyway... feels like I've been waiting my whole life for the other shoe to drop...
On the other hand, here's an encouraging thought:
It seems to me that more and more lately, the masks are beginning to flake apart and drop; you can only go around wearing a rubber human skin suit for so long before it starts showing wear, and smelling funny...
With the recent outing of all these media whores, and Bush barking at old people the other day, Rummy's foolishly wagging tongue and Bush's totally twisted, forked one...
The average citizen is indeed an unbelievable moron in America today, and the media isn't helping AT ALL, miscreants and whores that they are... the question, though, is this: Where is the saturation point, where even the lowliest noble animals and idiots are moved by instinct to run and take cover from the coming shit tsunami?
And the only other problem is: How will it all go down?
On this count I'm not so hopeful...
Cuz they've made it their business to play us against each other endlessly these last 30 years or so, to slice and dice and divide the populace at every possible juncture point imaginable; when the shit comes down, I'm afraid many will simply play out their programs like the simple idiot robot-people they've been all along...
And instead of a populist movement or uprising that brings all together, we'll instead see race riot and religious pogroms and lynchings as black fights white fights red fights yellow, while Green Party faithful fight those guys in the Blue Man Group...
And every race will fight as if they were the only somehow "pure" race of people on the earth; and men will fight women, and straights will fight gays will go toe to toe with transsexuals and hermaphrodites in special tag-team matches, in huge arenas for the entertainment of the more privileged masses, who will viddy all the lovely tolchoks and manglings and red, red croovy on tap and find it all very good indeed...
And the Macheads will throw down with the PC users on streetcorners at the drop of a hat, and go at it til The Last Nerd Standing...
And cat people will fight dog people like, like, I don't know what!...
And "American Indians" will battle Indian Indians for control of gambling interests, and everyone will want to get in on THAT bet...
And Christians will fight Muslims will fight Jews, and Catholics will fight Protestants will fight Jews will fight Amish, and Buddhists will wire-fu it out with Hari Krishnas in airports, while all the Mormons go underground with their harem of wives to work on building their own personal armies of warrior sons and daughters, in hopes of keeping the family name alive thru the next several cold, withering centuries of darkness and decay on planet Earth...
And meanwhile, thru it all, the rich Republican snooter-pigs will be up in their ivory towers, laughing their asses off and sipping rare wines and sawin' on a golden fiddle they got from the Devil hisself...
How does one counter this offensive? There is really nothing more optimum to a warrior (see the Art of War) than finding ways to avoid contesting with your enemies at all... the very NEXT best thing, and really better in many ways, is getting them to fight each other INSTEAD of you.
Divide and conquer. A house divided against itself cannot stand.
Hey, come to think of it, maybe we all ARE fucked...
STILL... in the words of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (right on the cover, in large, friendly letters!):
DON'T PANIC!
The way I see it, where there is life, there is ALWAYS hope...
To the very last breath.
DXS
"I LOVE horror movies, man... I just don't want to LIVE in one."

[dxstone]

89. ps: I'm tellin' ya, they're getting much too obvious...

Check out the latest:
http://www.presidentevilonline.com/scarynews.html

DXS

[LiberalPersona]

91. My panic set in several months ago

There's so many horrible things that are happening to this country, and they're all going to hit their peak moments at about the same time, and there will be a huge world affecting changes before this administration's time is over.

I've given up all hope that I'll live my mid-life years (the next 10 years) in a peaceful time.

[Warren Stupidity]

92. Ross Perot warned us 13 years ago what was going on. (NT)

[ananda]

94. koolaid

-They- might drink the koolaid, but -they- still dress and look normal and conservative, with that coiffed, groomed, round-glasses look that seems so .. normal.

Everyone else is -liberal- or -wrong-.

The memes set up in this country are hard to counter. I don't think they'll bust apart until white people actually start suffering in big numbers. Right now they're very comfortable and cruising through life in a big warmfuzzy comfort zone of affluence and isolation from the real life world of the poor and working classes.

Remember, the poor and the ugly sides of life are virtually invisible to the middle and upper classes, uncovered by the corporate owned media, and neglected completely by government officials except when they need a token minority person to take a position or mouth the party line.

Sue

[Donailin]

93. REALLY SIMPLISTIC SUMMARY

I've just about finished "Bush on the Couch" and I am now clear on what the big picture is: we have a dry drunk who used to get his thrills from intoxication, but now gets his thrills fucking with the balance of things on the planet. I don't think a week has gone by that he has not upped the anty on any given issue just to watch heads roll. It's his new way of keeping himself excited without dealing with his own eternal mess.

[rhite5]

96. And do not assume there will be a "Next Election" where.....

anything can be fixed. Our last chance for that happened in 2000.

I believed we still had a chance in 2004, but it was already too late.

[concord]

120. I believed we had a chance until Iowa

Then I saw how powerful the damn machine is.

Gore Vidal is right. This has been a set-up since 1947.

[brokensymmetry]

97. You mention part of the problem. Add another piece -

that being peak oil. Everyone from Matthew Simmons, the pro-repug investment banker, to Exxon-Mobile to BP (aka Beyond Petroleum) is saying that we can expect much higher energy prices in the future. Please note that this is the optimistic view. And understand that every barrel of oil we import represents a further addition to the trade deficit.

Thanks to our "leader", we are not popular anywhere in the world. We are feared, resented...even despised.

Why were the pugs so eager to eliminate bankruptcy protection? Could it be that they anticipate financial hard times and wish to protect the banks?

Ordinary people are using increasing housing valuations as a sort of deranged ATM. What happens if the housing bubble bursts, and that option ceases to be available?

Yes, we as a country are in very deep trouble. I suspect we'll need someone with the courage, the wisdom, and the strength of an FDR in 2008. Whether we'll get him, in these days of questionable elections, is quite another matter.

[ixion]

98. congrats on making the 'paranoid shift'

http://homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/iblog/C177199123/E1445866090/


If you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention. ;-)

[Robeson]

110. Thanks for that link....

...that was a great article.

[paineinthearse]

99. Read what Rep. Slaughter says about the death of deliberative democracy

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3256759

[Nimble_Idea]

100. You know what you need to do?

shut up and find jebus. Fly the true flag high! Old stars and bars and a bottle of beer.

You obviously care too much, didn't you know the rapture was coming?

jebus....

gee golly willakers!
O' Lord help this lost soul! To find the strength to come to you and bash gays. To create the largest defecit mankind has ever seen and make sure no one in this country has a future worth looking forward to!
Amen.

[corker]

109. kick

[Renew Deal]

112. Your last line is the Republican mission statement.

They just don't know it yet.

"We are the rich uncle who has blown it all and is too stupid to know that tomorrow he will be living in the streets like the people he snoots down on."