Gannongate Wrinkles 17

[Moderator]

Previous: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3246659&mesg_id=3246659

[fooj]

1. Imaginary girl...maybe "cloning" isn't a joke, after all!

On Gannon's website on 3-1-05 he made THIS STATEMENT regarding an interview w/Cliff Kincaid(Accuracy in Media) and speaks admiringly of Kincaid. "This guy should be cloned...a lot" Interesting comment, isn't it?

Peace!


Meant to get this to you on the last thread...it was locked when I returned to post. Bummer. Hope I catch up with you...

[Swamp Rat]

3. I am so lost... last I heard he was a prostitute that got a press pass...

What has Gannongate evolved to? Was he abducted by aliens, made into a servile, lowly creature to do the bidding of his alien lizard pimps? Whatever it is, I hope it's TRUE... I hope it is a "smoking gun."

[zann725]

2. Regarding the "we paint trucks" company that Gannon/Guckert owned...

Sen. Dorgan on CSPAN yesterday mentioned Contractor scams in Iraq which needed investigated, and in particular referred to one in which military vehicles on an air strip were stolen by a Contractor (and his employees)...and then RE-PAINTED, and sold back to the air strip.

It could be a "stretch"...but if this is an "M.O." used before by profit-seeking contractors....which the Administration was clearly aware of...

We know nothing about "we paint trucks" company...only that Gannon/ Guckert owned it. Where it conducted its business, or what kind of trucks it painted also remains a mystery. Just thinking out loud. Not actually alleging, yet...

[Ferry Fey]

4. Small town high schools

The question has been raised, how does someone go from nowhere in sophomore year to class officer in junior year.

Remember if this is a small town that didn't have much turnover in population, new kids will get a lot of attention from those who have known each other since kindergarten.

Mordarlar, how many kids would you say were in each grade of that high school?

Or hey, maybe he slept his way to the top. :)

[mordarlar]

9. It would be very difficult to give a number. About 120- 150 during his

junior year. This is just an estimate. There were about 4 to 5 pages. Each page listed about 30 students. Best i can do sorry.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BamaBecky]

6. "she is completely unsure" the link says about Noreen...n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

7. Found at that link: Alex Jones interviews John DeCamp:

ROVE-GANNON CONNECTION?
Alex Jones & John DeCamp audio
Wed Mar 9, 2005 03:50
64.140.158.36


John deCamp
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/interview_with_john_decamp.htm

Alex Jones & John DeCamp audio
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/decamp4.mp3

[FreedomAngel82]

42. Question on the audio

is Jones working on this case too? I hope so. Maybe he can help uncover this guy.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

68. I posted this before I listened to the interview. This appears to be

an older one where he is interviewing DeCamp about his book and defense of Paul Bonacci. It was excellent and will give you an idea of what Johnny Gosch must have contended with while in captivity.

I am a member of Alex's site, PrisonPlanet.tv and have yet to see anything on JimmieJeff.

[BamaBecky]

15. Here is the link..........[DU - Am I a grown up now? Just Joking]

go here

Merh - did I get it right?
I so badly want to be a grown up!!!

From a DU grownup wannabe............

By golly I think I finally figured this out....

[merh]

11. Just make sure you link has no unnecessary spaces and is

identical to what you are linking. There is an extra space in your link
between "149495" and ";article=77312;show_parent=1".

Just copy and paste! :hi:

[BamaBecky]

14. thanks n/t

[nonny]

8. New direction for searching.

I signed up (free) at www.reunion.com just to search Conneaut H.S.
Not much luck here but then I found the People Search link in the left column.

It took me to US Search
Searching on a name James Guckert (age 35)age blank required -- came up with 23 listings. Clicking on each name gives past cities for that name.
http://preview.ussearch.com/preview/newsearch?&searchtab=people&fc=orange&TID=0&adID=299001A191&sourceid=&adsource=63&searchMName=&searchState=%&searchLName=guckert&searchCity=&searchFName=james

James Dale Guckert age 47 Wilmington, DE
2 addresses in Newark, DE
5 addresses in Wilmington, DE
1 addresses in Cincinnati, OH

New Search
Guckert -- Delaware -- no age
http://preview.ussearch.com/preview/newsearch?searchFName=&searchMName=&searchLName=guckert&searchCity=&searchState=DE&searchApproxAge=&adID=10002101&searchtab=people&x=36&y=7

This gives 8 listings -- but only 2 names
James Dale Guckert 47
Newark, DE -- Wilmington, DE -- Cincinnati, OH

Debbie J. Guckert 51
Newark, DE -- Wilmington, DE -- College Park, MD -- Chester, VA -- Midlothian, VA

(husband & wife? or brother & sister?)

Another find was:
Jeffrey D Guckert age 34 (I think this was our golfer)
Fairview, PA --- about 12 different previous addresses.

Now I better get back to work! (like my job)

[elehhhhna]

10. has anyone sposted a "do you know this guy" with his classmates

on the Classmates or Reunion Message Boards?

[EFerrari]

13. Not that I know of. If anyone finds a free service as Nonny did,

maybe they could let us know.

[nonny]

16. More info on Debbie Guckert 53 Wilmington, DE

It seems that she has, with others, has a patent on a flame retardant fabric.

http://www.freshpatents.com/Flame-retardant-fiber-blends-comprising-flame-retardant-cellulosic-fibers-and-fabrics-and-garments-made-therefrom-dt20050203ptan20050025962.php

Race for the cure -- Richmond VA 2001
http://www.coolrunning.com/results/01/va/May12_Richmo_set1.shtml


Race for the cure -- Richmond VA 2001
http://www.coolrunning.com/results/02/va/May11_Richmo_set1.shtml



Handbook of Building Materials for Fire Protection (McGraw-Hill Handbooks)
by Charles A Harper

The Handbook's all-star team of contributors includes Drs. Frederick Mowrer of University of Maryland, Archibald Tewarson of Factory Mutual Research, Guy Marlair of Ineris, Richard Lyon of FAA, Elisabeth Papazoglou of Great Lakes Polymers, Debbie Guckert and Roger Parry of DuPont, Jesse Beitel, Richard Gewain, and Nestor Iwankiw of Hughes Associates, Marc Janssens of Southwest Research Institute, Bradford Douglas of American Forest and Paper Association, Richard Shuford and Wai Chin of Army Research Laboratories, and Usman Sorathia of Naval Systems Command. Whether you're an architect, a designer, a building or safety inspector, an engineer, a supervisor, or a manager, Handbook of Building Materials for Fire Protection delivers all the information and guidelines you need to make, use, ship or store materials that provide maximum fire safety for your buildings.

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=4-0071388915-1


This could be added to info on James Dale Guckert -- DE
(nonny--- get back to work)

[EFerrari]

17. I'm going to go peek at the Blitzer interview transcript

because before he shut up about his family, JimmyJeff said "mother, brother and his wife" if I remember correctly. Want to double check.

[EFerrari]

21. Found it:

GANNON: Well, the -- on -- I've been receiving threats. People have been stalking me in my neighborhood, have followed me to church, followed me down the street. And then there are phone calls and hate mail that I've gotten over the Internet.

And it's been very troubling. And when it went toward my family, then I said that I needed to put an end to it.

BLITZER: And when you say your family, could you be a little bit more...

GANNON: Well, I mean -- I mean my -- when my mother and my brother and his wife received telephone calls that -- you know, that contained threats and all kinds of terrible things being said about me, it's very disturbing. And that's way over the line. And I needed to put that to an end.


http://kellyanncollins.com/2005/02/wolf-blitzer-jeff-gannon-interview.html


He hasn't repeated this information again, that I know of.

[Catherine Vincent]

28. Because the stud was LYING.

We all receive threatening emails every now and then.

[EFerrari]

33. Probably, but he says mother, bro & bro's wife. n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

40. Well that part, yeah, I believe that but I was talking about the

following him around and threatening phone calls and emails.

[FreedomAngel82]

43. I highly doubt anybody was following him

Nobody knows where he lives do they? :shrug: And he said he was a two-day Christian as well in one interview so if he's a two-day Christian that would mean Easter and Christmas.

[Tracyjo]

35. Exactly

How can people be following him to church if he only goes on Christmas and Easter?

[burn the bush]

86. Didn't he say "two holiday Christian?"

If so maybe he was saying he is a Christian of the type that celebrates Christmas and Easter but not say Ash Wednesday?

[Athame]

136. Well, we know that Johnny Gosch had a younger brother

How about J.D. Guckert at the high school? Can we explore that angle for a bit?

[nonny]

18. Now this is getting interesting!

Search for James Gannon --- Iowa (name of Des Moines editor)
http://preview.ussearch.com/preview/newsearch?searchFName=james&searchMName=&searchLName=gannon&searchCity=&searchState=IA&searchApproxAge=&adID=10002101&searchtab=people&x=8&y=7

James D. Gannon age 74 Des Moines, Iowa
no other address listed

Same page ----

James A. Gannon age 53 Marshalltown, Iowa

(This town is just outside Des Moines and is sounding very familiar to me)

Previous addresses
Marshalltown, Iowa --- College Park, MD(same as Debbie Guckert) -- Hyattsville, MD

This town (I remembered from one of my first posts) that there were Guckerts living just outside Des Moines --- and if Johnny Gosch was choosing his new names --- Did he choose Gannon because of the newspaper, or did Gannon have a conection to his kidnapping -------- and then did he somehow know this Guckert who lived close by. (Gannon/Guckert)

John C. Guckert age 50 Marshalltown, Iowa
address only for Marshalltown

John Guckert (this is from Ancestry Plus)
Born 1892
Died 1981
Marshalltown, Iowa


http://preview.ussearch.com/preview/newsearch?searchFName=&searchMName=&searchLName=guckert&searchCity=&searchState=IA&searchApproxAge=&adID=10002101&searchtab=people&x=0&y=0

(I am REALLY going to get in trouble if I don't get back to work)

in one more minute......

Search for James Gannon --- Delaware
http://preview.ussearch.com/preview/newsearch?searchFName=james&searchMName=&searchLName=gannon&searchCity=&searchState=DE&searchApproxAge=&adID=10002101&searchtab=people&x=17&y=10

James P. Gannon age 44 Newark, DE
other addresses Newark, DE
other addresses Temperance, MI
other addresses Toledo, Ohio

Carry On--------------!

[burn the bush]

87. wasn't Johnny given a new family? That would mean that he was going to be

raised with a whole family of Guckerts. At least a Mr and Mrs.

err of course meaning IF JimmyJeff is Johnny.(I think he is not)
but the Gosch boy could have been put into an established family.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

93. I have listened to Noreen in two interviews and it doesn't sound like

the kids were given to families and put into schools. In fact she said that they didn't have any schooling. These kids were used strictly as "sex" objects, as sick as that is.

Edited to add... if he ran away from "their" clutches at 18, why would he then use the name of whomever had him?

[burn the bush]

109. You're right. Didn't his mother say that at some point a man bought him?

I'm sure you're right too about not using the name of the family that bought him. Though on second thought, it would be a hell of a better reason to change your name than "it's hard to pronounce"

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

120. Laughing as I am remembering the Anderson Cooper interview with him

and Anderson pointedly questioning why Jeff was easier than James. ;)

[burn the bush]

85. Maybe Debbie is not sister but another alias?

[loudsue]

129. Sister in LAW??? n/t

:kick:

[EFerrari]

12. JimmyJeff has linked to a Raw Story piece on Conyers.

"Another candidate for the "Divorced From Reality™" team, Rep. John Conyers, the most compelling case for term limits, just won't let go of Gannongate. He gives an "interview" to RAWSTORY, the PR department for the lunatic wing of the Democratic party"

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=165

Hey, I'm using Gannon's research!

lol

[Zap]

19. Suicide of suspected killer in chicago murders?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/10/judge.bodies/index.html

I listened to Skolnick on Jeff Rense the other night and he seems to think that Gannon is somehow tied to that Judge in Chicago who's mother and husband were killed last week.

Now today on CNN I see some guy committed suicide and they're linking him to those killings.

Skolnick can be a bit over the top sometimes, but I figured I'd post this to see if any names ring any bells for anyone.

[EFerrari]

20. Radio Interview transcript

This was posted 3/4/05

http://thunewatch.squarespace.com/journal/2005/3/4/jeff-gannon-the-interview.html

[troubleinwinter]

23. I don't think it's radio, perhaps a phone interview with a S. Dakota

blogger ("thunewatch squarespace" is funny!)

SFxpat, I am wondering something. You have read many of Gannon's Talon articles, and I really haven't (no stomach for it). Is any of his work 'investigative'? Or is it just cut & paste of WH talk and RW opinions?

His current 'blog' page is nothing more than links to the works of others.

I know he "broke" the shock & awe 4 hours before the announcement, and Mary Mapes. Someone clearly fed him these things.

I find it difficult to believe that he was "researching something" and came across the Daschle homestead information. He filed FOIA?

Are you buying his story? I hadn't given him that much credit. Whatdya think?

[EFerrari]

34. He seems to me to be lying.

And the way I get there is this: he's fed good stuff when it's needed by whoever is running him. The rest of the time, the quality of his work drops about 70% -- if you can quantify something like that.

Have to run back to working. I'll be back.

[troubleinwinter]

36. I have thought that his story of digging up the DC homestead

was a lie, too. I posted it before on an ealier thread. I don't think HE was the one digging through DC tax files. I figured some 'intern' was given that task.

He does not even say that he actually dug it up, just came upon it by accident. I aint buyin'.

I really don't know anything about these type of documents. I would assume a homestaed filing would be public information (after all, he came across the info by accident). Presumably he filed FOIA in order to see the signature. Again, I aint buying it. He is not a seasoned, experienced investigative journalist, and not particularly sophisticated or smart.

I think they had operatives digging all over Daschle's every possible angle & scrap. I am thoroughly convinced that it was FED to him, as were all of his other 'scoops'. GOP/Rove.

[EFerrari]

22. I don't know believe this has been posted yet re JDG's current residence

Found this passage from the conservativeguy blog posted to another site:

SIDEBAR: WHY I KNOW I'M RIGHT ABOUT THE TIMES

On the occasion of the January 18 anti-war rally in Washington, DC, I hosted members of Free Republic.com and MOVE-OUT (Marines and Other Veterans Engaging Outrageous Un-American Traitors) in my home on Capitol Hill. A reporter from the Washington Post assigned to cover their Patriots' Rally earlier in the day and their counter-demonstration at the Marine barracks at 8th & I arrived with them. In the course of my conversation with the reporter, I began my usual rant about the liberal media. I cited the New York Times as an example of a completely slanted publication. She was quick to remind me that the conservative William Safire writes for the Times. That's the point! Safire is so obviously a token at the Times that everyone can name him as a knee-jerk response to charges of bias but no one can mention another staff member who is a conservative.


http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/extra/archives/001470.html

I don't know this site, but they point out that the reporter may have been Carol Morello, who had a story about the event in the WaPo the next day.

So, there are people at FR who have been to Gannon's home.

[merh]

26. Apparently FR wiped their little board clean of bulldog's party!

I can't find reference to this. Or maybe they have hidden rooms that they gather in to discuss the liburals! :shrug:

[EFerrari]

27. Interesting.

This party was on a day that Hamden Rice was very interested in, as Aziz al Taee was speaking. I just caught up on that thread. Aziz seems to be involved in drug running, a prostitution ring and, ah, nation building! If you haven't checked it out, it's a good read.

(Back to work, me.)

[merh]

29. I've been following it

it is intriguing.

[merh]

38. I can't remember if this blog has been linked in these threads

or not. I think you may be interested in it as it discusses the timing of the Gannon/Guckert revelations.

http://www.pastpeak.com/archives/2005/02/guckertgannons.htm

http://www.pastpeak.com/archives/2005/02/correction_on_g.htm

[libertypirate]

24. I need someone to look at something and give me an honest

evaluation.

http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_court/briefs/03-334/03-334.mer.ami.korematsu.pdf

History may once again repeat.

[merh]

25. link doesn't work - what are we looking at?

:shrug:

[understandinglife]

30. Its a .pdf document: Supreme Court "BRIEF OF AMICUS CURIAE FRED KOREMATSU"

Nos. 03-334, 03-343
IN THE
Supreme Court of the United States
October Term, 2003

SHAFIQ RASUL, ET AL.,
Petitioners,
v.
GEORGE W. BUSH, ET AL.,
Respondents.

KHALED A. F. AL ODAH, ET AL.,
Petitioners,
v.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ET AL.,
Respondents.

ON WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF
APPEALS FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CIRCUIT
BRIEF OF AMICUS CURIAE FRED KOREMATSU
IN SUPPORT OF PETITIONERS

GEOFFREY R. STONE
1111 East 60th Street
Chicago, IL 60637
[phone]

DALE MINAMI
MINAMI, LEW & TAMAKI LLP
360 Post Street, 8th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94108

ERIC K. YAMAMOTO
2515 Dole Street
Honolulu, HI 96822

STEPHEN J. SCHULHOFER
Counsel of Record
BRENNAN CENTER FOR JUSTICE
161 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10013
[phone]

EVAN R. CHESLER
CRAVATH, SWAINE &
MOORE LLP
Worldwide Plaza
825 Eighth Avenue
New York, NY 10019
January 14, 2004

INTEREST OF AMICUS CURIAE
More than sixty years ago, as a young man, Fred
Korematsu challenged the constitutionality of President
Franklin Roosevelt’s 1942 Executive Order that authorized
the internment of all persons of Japanese ancestry on the
West Coast of the United States. He was convicted and sent
to prison. In Korematsu v. United States,2 this Court upheld
his conviction, explaining that because the United States was
at war, the government could constitutionally intern Mr.
Korematsu, without a hearing, and without any adjudicative
determination that he had done anything wrong.

More than half a century later, Fred Korematsu was
awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the nation’s
highest civilian honor, for his courage and persistence in
opposing injustice. In accepting this award, Mr. Korematsu
reminded the nation that “We should be vigilant to make sure
this will never happen again.” He has committed himself to
ensuring that Americans do not forget the lessons of their
own history.

Because Mr. Korematsu has a distinctive, indeed
unique, perspective on the issues presented by this case, he
submits this brief to assist the Court in its deliberations.

SUMMARY OF ARGUMENT
For approximately two years, Petitioners have been
imprisoned incommunicado, without access to counsel and
with no opportunity to contest in any forum the factual or
legal basis for their confinement. Unlike Fred Korematsu,
who, as a Japanese-American internee, was at least permitted to challenge the constitutionality of his internment, Petitioners are being deprived of the most basic components of due process. The United States Government has defended these.....(more at the link):

http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_court/briefs/03-334/03-334.mer.ami.korematsu.pdf

[understandinglife]

31. Final four paragraphs:

"Of course, in this case, the Government would not allow
even for these post-war judicial “corrections” because the
Government would not permit any review of its decision to
detain the Petitioners indefinitely. This vision of the
executive branch’s authority is inconsistent with our
constitutional commitment to a government of laws.

Let us not now set the foundation for later apologies and
belated attempts to restore narrowed rights. Let us instead
underscore the role of the courts in assuring the indispensable
safeguards by which we are, and should be, measured as a
just society.

This Court should make clear that even in wartime, the
United States respects the principle that individuals may not
be deprived of their liberty except for appropriate
justifications that are demonstrated in fair hearings, in which
they can be tested with the assistance of counsel. This Court
should make clear that the United States does not constrict
fundamental liberties in the absence of convincing military
necessity. And even when such necessity is established,
liberties can be restricted only while preserving some avenue
for review comporting with the minimum required by due
process.

Our failure to hold ourselves to this standard in the past
has led to many of our most painful episodes as a nation. We
should not make that mistake again."

[fooj]

32. Yes. We must never let this happen again!

My in-laws were in a camp...they lost everything and had to start over...
"safeguards by which we are, and should be, measured as a just society."

Peace.

[troubleinwinter]

37. Worthy of discussion... but maybe on it's own thread?

Doesn't appear to relate to Gannon.

[libertypirate]

39. Now how I found the document.... Stranger then fiction

I started thinking about the image found when someone searched AOL for JDG.

The ball, string, falling up through a field of possibly pain.

Anyway it's an abstraction, the objects behavior are in reverse to what is thought to be normal behavior they are falling up while the shadows are correctly behind and bellow.

BTW -- I am beginning to think "Divorced From Reality™" is actually meaning the opposite of what we all at first would think it to mean. It might be code for being correct.

I wanted to see if the abstraction had anything to do with the context of the jeffgannon.com website.

I used this post as my tin-foil marker.
<snip>
Is there any more proof required that the Left wants to leave America defenseless? Note the part where teachers unions (that almost exclusively support Democrats with millions of dollars and volunteer hours) worked to allow anti-war activists access to high schools to convince students not to join the military.
</snip>

To me the abstraction or the meaning behind this is that the left is anti-war.

That post linked to this story:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&u=/usatoday/20050308/ts_usatoday/counterrecruitersshadowingthemilitary&printer=1

The researcher in me got to the following paragraph.

<snip>
Using a 1986 federal appeals court decision that supported the rights of draft registration opponents to equal access to students, the Los Angeles Unified School District teachers union has helped get counter-recruiting into some schools regularly visited by military recruiters in the nation's second largest public district. The counter-recruiters make public address announcements, distribute literature, show documentaries and give classroom presentations.
</snip>

From there I went findlaw.com where I did a search for the case, which I have yet to find. If someone does I would love to read it. It may not exist.

The sentence from the Gannon post above was broken up by a liberal reference which I took out.

<snip>
Note the part where teachers unions worked to allow anti-war activists access to high schools to convince students not to join the military.
</snip>

I used the terms "1986 federal appeals court decision anti-war" taken from both the post and the news item.

Using abstraction of the Gannon post "anti-war".

http://lawcrawler.findlaw.com/scripts/lc.pl?CID=ILC-LawcrawlerHomepage&sites=findlaw.com&sites=findlaw.com&entry=1986+federal+appeals+court+decision+anti-war

I also see a pattern it may just be tinfoil but I will put it out there.

Gannon is using the spin to talk to both sides. Posts spun negatively for liberals might just be directly talking to them, or us. The same would be true for the conservatives.

Now I am not sure that the document I found is significant, but it is strange that a post on a the Gannon site would have lead me right to it. I need to follow up with a few others.

Flame Me Baby!

lp

[Catherine Vincent]

41. No flames, I'm just glad that you're trying to figure this dude out.

But are you saying that all that claptrap that Gannon spouts on his blog (if that is Gannon) is not meant to be negative for liberals?

[libertypirate]

44. Think about how abstraction works....

The objects in the picture infer meaning.

What they mean is not what they are. Another way of looking at it.

So if Gannon is coding messages he is doing it not to be obvious, and to indirectly mean what is stated; that is the direction I am going with this.

[hiley]

45. No flames, from me either

you are quite possibly onto something . I have not been posting any help in the Wrinkles threads but have read all and have been just trying to observe and look at all of the possibilities.
I have felt for awhile that Gannon is speaking more to us than the conservatives.
Like you wrote "What they mean is not what they are."
The abstract artwork enforces my thinking of the double meanings of "Jeff Speak".
Also, as far as the HS pics I don't feel that those are Jeff Gannon at all. Yesterday, I was compelled to comment around the time of the afternoon posts (3:30)and all of the sudden my keyboard fried; it was unbearable to not be able to speak up.


http://rantsbyhiley.blogspot.com/

[Catherine Vincent]

47. You should have posted sooner on these threads.

I don't contribute much myself, I just like reading how all of this will unfold and giving my opinion on it.

You don't think any of those hs pics are Gannon? Not even a little? How come?

[hiley]

49. Cat it is the eyes

and the lips, just my opinion though.

[merh]

56. That's what I have been saying.

The eyes and lips (especially lips) are different. (imho)

[understandinglife]

58. We're in agreement on that. And, that is why I've asked ....

....nonny to begin with the comparision that has not yet been posted; overlay comparisons of certain photos of "Gannon", for starters.

That is also why I suggested what I did in comment # 175 in thread # 16.

Peace.

[merh]

59. You gonna make me go back and find that

dagnabit!

BTW - so are the using the blackmail to keep dems voting with them? :shrug:

[understandinglife]

63. Ooops! Here's the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3246659&mesg_id=3249180

And, yes, I think quite a few folk have been informed of how compromised they are. As you know from some of my earliest comments, I've wondered about "Gannon's" employer (e.g., CIA). I'm just waiting for the next time we actually get to see "Gannon" (which we haven't for almost two weeks -- radio interview doesn't count for all the reasons that have been discussed).

Peace.

[merh]

67. Thanks for the links.

Will we ever see Gannon again (either version?)

:shrug:

[understandinglife]

75. I think the Issue of "Will we ever see Gannon again?" needs to become....

....high-priority.

I think its time for Raw Story, KO, Randi Rhodes, Americablog, etc., to start a "WE WANT TO SEE GANNON" campaign. I'm serious -- not for our sake, but for "Gannon's" sake.

Peace.

[libertypirate]

64. Try not to think in traditional Red vs. Blue...

There is a group, they are apolitical. They use the politics as means to their ends.

They may be playing some of the reds and some of the blues, however there is a core group who is up to something else.

That core group has another purpose and most of what goes on might just be subterfuge.

What could be more distracting than thinking your belief system was under attack?

You keep looking down, when you should be looking up.

[merh]

69. But one has to think in terms of red & blue

That is how our government is formed. The dems have to put up some type of struggle, to not is to draw attention to their failure to struggle. When it is as obvious as 14 dinos voting with repugs for the bankruptcy reform legislation that harms the working folks, well then bells and whistles sound and lights flash.


A semblance of fighting their "opponents'" corruption masks their complicity. To cave as they have makes it obvious that they are vulnerable and extortion is being used. (imho)

[libertypirate]

71. Parties are not democracy... They are control groups...

of ideological submission.

[merh]

73. Agreed - but unfortunatley for us, we have allowed the control

groups to control our government.

[libertypirate]

74. Can we just say it happened....

people get so focused on the blame...

What is the difference between someone who believes they live in a free and open society and a person who does?

Since they both think they are free they assume they are, there is no difference.

It is the same as a free press, if you think there is then why should you think there isn't a free press.

[merh]

78. People get so focused on blame because there is so much to

go around and because people say "why should we blame, they are all corrupt". Personally, I am tired of passing it off as the way the system works.

[libertypirate]

80. Thank you...Amen to that

"I am tired of passing it off as the way the system works."

[fooj]

89. It's all relative to what one believes or their circumstances...

[fooj]

88. Good point...keeping your eyes to the ground is a sure way to miss

what's going on around you. Peace!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

96. Excellently said. There are opposames. They work for the same team

inwardly, and outwardly are meant to appear on opposite sides.

[merh]

62. Overlays don't really work without transparencies.

that is why everyone was convinced JDG is bulldog in every photo. The images of one mesh into the other and they become one or the same.

[fooj]

82. Eyes were the deciding factor for me...

Peace.

[libertypirate]

51. I don't either....

The difference is too great to ignore...

Most people are focused only that the glass is half full, how much the pictures are alike; sign of human nature.

To understand the relationship between two things you have to study what is different not what is the same.

The only way to find out how much alike they are is to first understand how they are not alike.

lp

[hiley]

53. Yes, yes that is what I have

been screaming while waiting for new keyboard !

[merh]

57. exactly!

:thumbsup:

[Catherine Vincent]

46. That's a very good reading of this.

But I don't know why I can't picture Gannon as using abstraction on his blog. But he only appears to be the way he is. He is fooling a lot of us including conservatives.

[libertypirate]

48. Abstraction is spin...

Abstraction is all the missdirection missinformation and other bullshit we have to endure in our press. He is using the structure of the coded messages to imply different meanings then what we usually expect. He has even gone so far as to appologise with out doing so to Helen Thomas.

I think there is more there. There are threats that arn't threats.
"C'mon Joe Think".

[understandinglife]

54. "C'mon Joe Think" ....in_Deed!! Check comment #50. I'd say Biden...

...has had a lot to think about!!!

Here's the link to The News Journal article:

http://www.delawareonline.com/updates/FormerBidenstaf.html

Former Biden staffer sentenced to prison for campaign-fund theft

By SEAN O’SULLIVAN / The News Journal
3/10/2005A former campaign worker for U.S. Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., was sentenced in federal court today to three years and one month in prison for stealing more than $412,000 from the senator.

Roger D. Blevins of Elsmere was accused of raiding Biden’s re-election fund to pay for dates with, and buy lavish presents for, performers on a gay pornographic Web site.

Blevins told U.S. District Judge Kent A. Jordan that his actions were “stupid, ignorant and wrong,” and he apologized for his behavior.

Jordan told Blevins that his crime went beyond simple theft, and his quest for personal gratification breached a public trust. (more at the link)

Oh my.....

Peace.

[Catherine Vincent]

61. Did any of that money go to Gannon?

And was Gannon blackmailing Biden? Inquiring minds want to know!

p.s. To those of you on this thread that was inquiring about the comment Gannon said on his blog regarding Joe Biden and telling him to think and I came back and said I didn't think that was nothing....well I'd like to say that I was wrong and there just MAY be something there. We shall see!

[troubleinwinter]

70. In view of the fact

that "Jeff Gannon", the online gay prostitute and pornographer has publicly mentioned that Senator Biden knows who he is, and that Biden's campaign was embezzled by someone for the purpose of purchasing gay 'dates' related to persons "on a gay pornographic website"....

It would be a reasonable question to ask the reporter of this article if: 1) Guckert/Bulldog/Gannon's name came up in the trial, 2) if Guckert/Bulldog/Gannon was called to testify and/or, 3)any of Guckert/Bulldog/Gannon's websites were brought up in the trial.

SFxpat or someone willing to contact the Delaware reporter?

Contact Sean O’Sullivan at 324-2777 or [e-mail].
http://www.delawareonline.com/updates/FormerBidenstaf.html

[hiley]

55. that is what he

knows Spin, i/e Conservative Pundit !

[hiley]

52. but see he appears to hate

gay sex ranting abouts Gays, gay is vile but apparently he enjoys gay sex.
loath = love
gannon is backwards about everything

[libertypirate]

60. Maybe

This gives me a different impression
<clip>
I'll be talking about Gannongate and the Hyper-Hysterical (and not in a funny way) Homosexual Hypocrites and their enablers in the Old Media who played the "gay card" to try to destroy me.

"I'm here, I'm conservative. Get used to it!"
</clip>

"Hyper-Hysterical Homosexual Hypocrites" That is who he is talking about...

I don't know what he enjoys... That's putting assumption before knowledge...

Anyway wasn't he a top? I think that means his buns were off limits but I could be wrong.

I also don't think he is backwards about everything I think he is sincere to some degree.

I also get the impression that he is a pretty nice guy.
<clip>
I send my best wishes and continued prayers to Les and his wonderful wife.
</clip>
and
<clip>
Actually, I like the guy, we've talked on the phone several times. I wish him luck and am pleased that others will gain from what I pioneered.
</clip>
and
<clip>
The impartial Helen Thomas takes a break from her Bush-bashing column to share her views about Gannongate.
</clip>

When he points to news articles I think he abstractly making reference to how to classify them.

[hiley]

66. hmm, I have to consider this liberty

Of course, I can't 100% know that he loves gay sex however, being a top does not mean he would have to be with men (don't really quite know how to say this censored) but some women will do the backdoor.



Gannon seems more than just living a double life to me. Everything he says really means something else.

Like I said, need to think about your response for a minute.

[Catherine Vincent]

72. Well how can I put this...

You said being a top does not mean he would have to be with men. Sure but if a guy like being a top for women AND men too then there are some bi or gay issues there. He definitely wouldn't be straight. But of course, none of us knows if he was a prostitute anyway, so this is all speculation.

[Catherine Vincent]

50. --delete--

[DulceDecorum]

65. Paul and Shirley Eberle

Lynne Lopatin Opines
Lynne writes: Luke: You are in Australia and I am in Oregon. How does that legally affect a restraining order? It can't! I love the internet, almost as much as I love you!
<snip>
I was made aware of porn as a political tool by my first adult industry employers, Paul and Shirley Eberle of the L.A. Star. As veterans of the Los Angeles Free Press (one of the original hippie newspapers from the early seventies), the Eberles were pioneers in publishing the politics of sexuality and pornography.
Their co-publisher, Max Lobkowicz, continues the battle. He is currently married to Dr. Susan Block and politicizes the personal every Saturday night via her salon and internet broadcast at www.drsusanblock.com.
obtained from lukeford.com

Lynne Lopatin was married to Bruce Walker. Pornographer Bruce Walker died in 1999. Bruce Walker is also the name of the owner/recruiter for the malecorps site which featured Jeff Gannon.

Paul left the Free Press along with many other staffers amid much acrimony toward the management of the paper; mostly Art Kunkin. He started an early T&A newspaper, the L.A. Star, which he ran for almost fifteen years. Between the pix, mostly sent in by readers, he wrote many rants against the political establishment of the time: Police Chiefs Parker and Davis, Mayor Yorty and Bradley and others.
In the 1980s, Paul, with his wife Shirley, wrote "The Politics of Child Abuse," an examination of the industry that evolved around the court-lawyer-children's services agencies and other participants that led to a massive increase in unfair charges of sexual abuse and the conversion of our traditional principle of innocent until proven guilty to one in which merely being charged with abuse is assumed to be a conviction.
Then the McMartin Preschool case happened. http://www.moonmac.com/About_Paul.html

In Politics, the Eberles denounce the "child abuse industry" and advocate punishment for its allegedly greedy, blindly obedient and psychopathic managers — mainly social workers and law enforcement officials — whose manipulation of children leads to false allegations that damage the lives of innocent children and adults. The authors also propose reviewing all past molestation convictions and, in order to protect families, reevaluating and possibly dismantling the Welfare State. The publication of Politics catapulted the Eberles into guest spots on radio and television talk shows where they discussed the nationwide child abuse "witch hunt" passionately described in their book.
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume7/j7_4_2.htm
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/
John Earl is a freelance journalist.
He contributed research material used in The Abuse of Innocence by Paul and Shirley Eberle.

Paul and Shirley Eberle wrote The Politics of Child Abuse, a book that accuses mothers, mental health professionals, and prosecutors of feeding children stories about sexual abuse. Since the book was published by Lyle Stuart in l986, the Eberles have been cited as experts in sexual abuse trials. They were featured speakers at a conference of the Victims of Child Abuse Laws, a group formed to protect accused parents.
What is startling about the Eberles' reputation as ground-breaking experts in the field is that their dubious credentials have not been widely challenged. Paul and Shirley Eberle edit a soft-core magazine in California called the L.A. Star that contains a mixture of nude photos, celebrity gossip, telephone sex ads, and promos for The Politics of Child Abuse.
In the 1970's, however, the Eberles were also publishing hard-core pornography. Their publication, Finger, depicted scenes of bondage, S & M, and sexual activities involving urination and defecation. A young girl portrayed with a wide smile on her face sits on top of a man whose penis is inside of her; a woman has oral sex with a young boy in a drawing entitled "Memories of My Boyhood."
The Eberles were featured nude on one cover holding two life-size blow up dolls names "Love Girl" and "Play Guy." No dates appear on the issues and the Eberles rarely attach their names, referring to themselves as "The L.A. Star Family."
The Eberles were the distributors of Finger and several other underground magazines, says Donald Smith, a sergeant with the obscenity section of the Los Angeles Police Department's vice division who followed the couple for years. LAPD was never able to prosecute for child pornography: "There were a lot of photos of people who looked like they were under age but we could never prove it." The pictures of young children in Finger are illustrations, and child pornography laws were less rigid a decade ago than they are today.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sm4csi/nwo/MindControl/paul_and_shirley_eberle.htm

The Eberles/Gannon porn-star connection extends to encompass one Marylin Star
whose real name is Kathryn B. Gannon.
Due to a stock-exchange insider trading rap, Kathryn fled to British Columbia where a judge had ruled that possession of child pornography is legal. Kathryn's cousin, Jeff Gannon, was residing there at the time but she did not go to his home.

And there is more ...

When Kathryn was tried in the US for the SEC violations, the judge refused to allow the jury to be informed of Kathryn's racy past (or the then newly-minted video, "Marylin whips Wall Street.") The judge said that the info would prejudice the jury.
She should know.
Judge Kimba Wood, who was Clinton's second choice for Atty General, after Zoe Baird, was herself a Playboy bunny in London.
Judge Kimba Wood presided over the trial of the junk bond king Mark Milken.

Gannon also has two U.S. lawyers, criminal attorney Howard Shapiro and securities specialist Joseph Brenner, partners at Wilmer, Cutler and Pickering, a big Washington, D.C., firm. Senior partner Lloyd Cutler was President Bill Clinton's White House counsel during in the Paula Jones-Monica Lewinsky scandals.
Except for a couple of court appearances, Gannon has kept a low profile, living with her second husband, stock promoter Michael Gilley, in a Vancouver beachfront penthouse.
Gilley, 44, a chartered accountant, was chief financial officer of ill-fated Cam-Net Communications Network, a long-distance reseller at the centre of a Vancouver Stock Exchange share-manipulation scheme.
Cam-Net investors lost more than $100 million in the 1990s before it was delisted, and its president was cited for alleged securities infractions.
Gilley was never charged with any wrongdoing.
http://www.baseball.ca/CNEWSLaw0007/23_porn.html

In early 1994, the B.C. Securities Commission cited Cam-Net president Robert Moore for alleged securities infractions, including his failure to report the sale of $2.7-million worth of Cam-Net shares.
The stock price plunged, prompting shareholders to file a class-action lawsuit in Pennsylvania alleging that Moore and Gilley had withheld material facts and artificially inflated the company's stock price.
Cam-Net eventually settled the matter by paying $2.2-million US worth of stock and $175,000 US cash to the plaintiffs. But that didn't end the drama. The commission's executive-director, Dean Holley, receipted a Cam-Net prospectus in late 1994 allowing the company to issue more stock in B.C. The move upset stock market investigator Adrian du Plessis, who was then working with the commission. He quit in disgust and complained to then-B.C. finance minister Elizabeth Cull.
Cull appointed retired judge Lloyd McKenzie to review the matter. McKenzie eventually cleared Holley's action, not on the basis of du Plessis' allegations, but on the basis that Holley had the authority to make whatever decision he wanted.
http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary_Navigation=Articles&Action=View_Article&Content_ID=19869

But I guess you knew all that already.

[trudyco]

77. Now where did you find the Gannon gal/other Eberle connect?

I read about the Shirley and Paul Eberle presumably hypocritical child abuse profession before, but how did you find Kathryn Gannon?

Is there any connection to this and "Jeff Gannon" James Guckert and Bobby Eberle and the other Eberle from Texas and GOPUSA?

Interesting.

How do you find this stuff????
Got anymore dots to connect DulceDecorum

[DulceDecorum]

95. The STAR connection

The way I understand it,
Paul and Shirley have four children. I do not know their names. Yet.

As for Jeff Gannon, cousin of Kathryn Gannon,
I have not been able to unearth much. Yet.

In any case, Kathryn B. Gannon used the name Marylin STAR
and the Eberles refered to themselves as the L.A. STAR family.
Yeah its weak, but its all I got.
That and the fact that
Kathryn was bouncing around a lot when she was 12.

As for how I got this info,
I just looked up GANNON on the AVN (Adult Video News) search engine and it spat out some leads.

One of the links in there,
the one with John Earl,
has a whole lot of leads for anyone who can stand being around that subject material for long.

Once you find out what Finger was all about,
you might just lose your lunch.
No wonder the Eberles are protesting already!!
Paul and Shirley Eberle
are working on a defense for the evil they have wrought.
They probably think that that the best defense is an in-your-face offense
to go along with all the other offenses they have committed already.

Star, aka Kathryn Gannon, was born in Prince George, B.C., as the oldest of three children born to William and Barbara Gannon. Her parents divorced when Gannon was about 12 years old and Kathryn shuttled between Prince George and her grandmother in Vermilion, lta.
As a child, Gannon performed ballet, once for members of the Royal Family at Vancouver's Expo 86. Gannon has been described as loving ballet and having been a very bright child. Gannon enrolled in the University of Alberta, but soon found it hard to juggle school and mounting student loans. In 1991, she entered an amateur night stripping contest at Rusty's, an Edmonton bar. She was an instant hit and signed a contract with Independent Artists based in Calgary. She changed her name to Marilyn Star (it became Marylin when a porn producer later misspelled it on a video cover) and did her first professional show on June 17, 1991, at the same bar. She earned $55 a show and did about 24 shows a week.
Gannon's career quickly soared. She was named Miss Nude B.C. in 1991-92 and had her picture in several men's magazines including Hustler, Live and Cheri. "You're talking about someone who was fairly well known in the industry," said Matt Jackovich, her former agent, who works for Stripper Entertainment in Burnaby, B.C. "She was earning a couple of grand a week anyway."
In 1994, Gannon met Bruce Akahoshi, 51, while stripping in a bar in Calgary. "I wouldn't call it love. I would call it lust," Akahoshi said. The two went on a holiday together in Hawaii and then got married in Lake Tahoe in April, 1994. Akahoshi became her informal agent and got her a role in a film with porn star Randy West. After that, she signed a contract with Video Team. Her first film was The Seduction of Marylin Star.
Gannon earned about $52,000 a year from the video contract.
NAUGHTY SITE

Star, whose real name is Kathryn Gannon, is wanted in a case in which she's accused of receiving advance merger tips from her then-lover, investment banker James McDermott, and trading stock based on those tips, which she would then pass on to another reputed lover, industrialist Anthony Pomponio. She and Pomponio are each said to have pocketed over $80,000 as a result of those tips.
Both men are free on bond, while Star remains in hiding.
Star is said to be close to her mother, who lives in Prince George and is said to be fighting cancer. She also has a cousin in Edmonton, where she grew up, but this cousin, JEFF GANNON, tells the Post she wasn't exactly expected to show up there. "She wouldn't get into this house," he insisted.
Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal reports that Keefe, Bruyette & Woods LLC, the investment bank for whom McDermott was chief executive officer until this last July, was kind of caught with its pants down on the insider trading scandal. The Journal says that some three dozen Keefe, Bruyette employees bought company stock totaling $18 million amid buyout rumors but weren't told by upper management that the insider trading scandal was brewing.
In fact, the paper says, McDermott had tipped off firm directors of an insider trading investigation involving "a friend" and that he was likely to be scrutinized, too. "This news," the Journal says, "led the firm in May to yank plans for an initial public offering of its stock."
SAME NAUGHTY SITE

Kathryn always got, er, good press from AVN.

Marc Medoff, a journalist in the adult entertainment world, claimed the actress - star of Marilyn Does Miami - was innocent of fraud. He said: "Her PhD is in pornography, not high finance."
The London Telegraph, December 23, 1999

Gannon, a former exotic dancer with 100 porn videos to her credit, has always professed her innocence and a desire to clear her name.
"I will tell you this, Kathryn always wanted to resolve this situation," says friend Marc Medoff, president of Adult News Service and formerly Gannon's personal photographer.
Steve Mertl-- The Canadian Press

``She is surrounded by friends, lawyers, and she is making several decisions in the next couple of days about what to do and whether she decides to give up,'' Marc Medoff, president of the Adult Press Service in New York, was quoted as saying by the Post.
Thursday, December 10, 1999
Associated Press

In other porn news,
it appears that Hooboy died a few days ago,
the night of March 2, 2005, I think.
Who was he?
How the heck would I know?
All I am doing is checking up on JeffJames GannonGuckert.

"All of us have lost a very good friend. The proprietor of male4malescorts, known as HooBoy, passed away last night. Befitting his never-ending quest for discretion and privacy, details of his final journey will remain private."

Jeff was reviewed at the male4malescorts website
and that is how many of us learned his particulars.

[Athame]

141. You know, I just have to say

I am in absolute AWE of your ability to find and connect the most obscure facts. I have been following you in the 911 forum for a long time (hardly ever post there, but I read almost everything) and you are simply amazing. A belated
:toast: to you, Dulce Decorum!

[trudyco]

241. Probalby unrelated Gannon

Looked up in my college alumni book and found a Ms Christa Marie Gannon, JD 97, who is director and founder of Fresh Lifelines for Youth. Based in San Jose, CA.

There seemed to be a connection in the Franklin case (and possibly the Florida elections) with wayward youth organizations. Other Gannons were: Professor Colin, Joseph P. Jr ('48), Kathleen '86, Stephan Gregory '70, Warren '52. Only 1 Guckert - Dr Jeffrey Allen PHD '95 in Chemistry (lives in San Diego). Eberles are Cilista who married a Turner. Elizabeth JD '98 (WI), Jeffrey '73 chairman Tertiary, Inc. based inMA and email address is sailor@something. Nicolas '99. W.D. '45 based in MA. Mrs Wyndham E. '67 based in NJ assistant VP Chubb and sons.

I know. Probably just noise.

[EVDebs]

76. Too many threads to follow up on ! Geez, 17 now.. Mililtary record key

it seems to me. Not much mentioned on any who served with him; mostly his highschool pics and misc stuff...

CNN and PsyOps
www.counterpunch.org/cnnpsyops.html

by Alexander Cockburn of counterpunch would be a likely starting point to see where G/G's background could have led him. My money is on Army Signal Corp. Possibly Ft. Gordon (Augusta, GA) and near CNN Atlanta perhaps ?

Just my guesses. Where to start ? All we know is he SAYS he had military service. Where ? What branch ? Who served with him ? What missions ? Is he under any classified status ? Is he even STILL ACTIVE DUTY ?

What role would Robert Novak play in the Plame outing if Novak himself were non-official-cover and taking company payola ?

[merh]

79. Well of course no mention of who he served with is not uncommon,

look at the boy blunder! <sarcasm>

[zann725]

156. With a company called 'we paint trucks,' maybe he was in Transportation

in the Army, or maybe a Mechanic?

Since he IS gay, maybe he got Discharged early due to 'don't ask, don't tell' policy. OR was caught in the act, and got kicked out.

Or maybe he went in as a Contractor, due to big profits (money he needs). Lots of ex-military joined as Contractors in Iraq.

[understandinglife]

81. Time for an ALERT: Where IS Gannon?

Tomorrow, if my memory is correct, will be 15 days since we've last "seen" Gannon (any version of him).

The radio interview of this past Sunday is not adequate, for obvious reasons.

We don't know who is posting to jeffgannon.com

Where is Gannon?

I think its time for DU, Raw Story, KO, Randi Rhodes, Americablog, etc., to start a "WE WANT TO SEE GANNON" campaign.

I'm serious -- not for our sake, but for "Gannon's" sake.

Peace.

[hiley]

83. I agree we do need

a sighting, how should we go about calling him out ?

[EVDebs]

84. Like the Scarlet Pimpernel...He's here, he's there, he's everywhere,

so take care !

[Synnical]

90. Gossip from March 4th - HST

Just saw this, don't know if it's been posted before. I try to keep up, but don't have the time to read every post.

Gossip Alert! This is from the New York Post's Page Six. I searched the Rocky Mountain News website, and could not find any mention of HST relating to the alleged police notes. So, I'm taking this with a huge grain of salt.


http://www.nypost.com/seven/03042005/gossip/pagesix.htm

SUICIDE FUELS CONSPIRACY BUZZ

March 4, 2005 -- WAS Hunter S. Thompson's mysterious death really a suicide?

There are some serious irregularities surrounding the demise of the gonzo author, who was found shot to death in the kitchen of his Woody Creek, Colo., ranch on Feb. 20, and local cops seemed to have done a lackluster job of investigating.

<snip>

There were no eyewitnesses to the shooting, only an "earwitness" — Thompson's wife, Anita, who was on the phone with him at the time and who later drank scotch with the corpse. Her account of the incident is inconsistent: She alternately has said that she heard a loud, muffled noise and that she heard nothing but clicking.

The behavior of Juan, who was in the house at the time of the shooting, also was unusual. Pitkin County Deputy Sheriff John Armstrong said that when investigators arrived on the scene they heard shots, but Juan assured them he had merely been firing off a salute to his dead dad. Investigator Joseph DiSalvo also let Juan enter the kitchen alone and drape a scarf over the body.

And in his report, Deputy Ron Ryan noted the semi-automatic Smith & Wesson 645 found next to Thompson's body was in an unusual condition. There was a spent shell casing, but although there were six bullets left in the gun's clip, there was no bullet in the firing chamber, as there should have been under normal circumstances.

[fooj]

91. I know this is repetitive but I'm hoping that if i keep up the reminders..

someone- somewhere- can fill in some blanks...

Here goes...

Why is it that NOBODY, ABSOLUTELY NOBODY
has stepped up, tried to sell a story, or virtually admit that they knew this man when he was a teenager or a young adult? Think about his recent behavior patterns. This guy is NO WALLFLOWER! He's brazen, obnoxious and an in-your-face loudmouth. Yet, NOBODY knew this idiot when he was younger? Think back for a moment. How many of us knew guys (and girls, for that matter) like this 20 or so years ago? Don't we remember something about them because of their "need to be in the spotlight"...and their abrasive, cocky persona? Hell, I can recall of few of those jackasses firsthand! Was this guy just beamed down 20 years ago, or what? This is what troubles me. Where the hell is the history on this jerk?

He claims to be a Christian, correct? Where are his fellow parishioners, his pastors, etc.? Didn't he have a job to support himself throughout his late teens and twenties? However, we have no previous employers, no ex-employees, no acquaintances, no ex-marines, no cousins, no aunts or uncles, no teachers, no coaches...NO NADA!


What we do have are "alleged" high school photos (only 10th and 11th grade). We also know J. Guckert was Junior Class President...with NO MENTION OR PHOTOS from the previous year. One would assume someone this involved and popular in high school would be remembered BY SOMEONE!


Peace!

[New Earth]

92. this is totally farfetched

but is it possible that the real J. Guckert in those high school pics is deceased, and Gannon (Gosch?) took on that person's identity because they look similar and it would be easy to pull off?

:tinfoilhat: :shrug: i'm seriously playing with ideas here :eyes:

[understandinglife]

97. Not 'far fetched' at all Faye. We have the 'sudden appearance'...

....of 'mr class leader' in "James Guckert" -- high school Jr class pres., Sr student body pres. He came out of no where to be super-star leader.

Then, were supposed to believe that someone with those traits lands in a 'college for high school drop outs' as WCU was described by someone quoted in a previous thread.

And, are we supposed to believe that someone with so much charisma and active role in his HS and no one, including family, has said word one about "Guckert/Gannon."

I think "Jim Guckert" -- the jr/sr high school leader -- is either dead or the documents are a plant (let's face it, would anyone at that high school remember any student or be familiar with the year books from the late 1970s). If he's dead, it makes sense. The folk who knew, admired and loved him, if they've heard anything about "Gannon/Guckert" would just regret the shared name.

Something ain't jiving here, so don't worry about "far fetched" hypotheses.

Peace.

[bear425]

110. Hi UL, Can you help me something, please?

KansDem posted in wrinkles 16 here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3246659#3247786
the list of speakers at Bohemian Grove over the years. I can't seen to shake seeing Robert Novak and Poppy's names there in 1995

1995
July 20

ROBERT NOVAK, Conservative Columnist
"Behind the Beltway-How the GOP is transforming Washington's Tribal Society"

July 21
ALEX J. MANDL (Executive V.P. AT&T)
Topic: "Communications & Weaving Spiders -- the Complex Web of Futuristic communications"

July 22
NEWT GINGRICH, Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives
Topic Unknown (surprise speaker)

July 29
GEORGE BUSH SR., Former President of the U.S.A.
"Reflections: Past, Present and Future"

The strange thing I read recently is Seymour Hersch's statement that Robert Novak is really a patriot. I don't have the exact quote, but he was really complimentary to him. Now, we all know, that Sy is not stupid. So, why would he go out of his way to say wonderful things about a person who outed a covert CIA agent.

Ok, this might be really tinfoil, but perhaps Novak met G/G at Bohemian Grove and used him to out Plame in order to bring down B*ushco. Has this come up anywhere, or am I totally losing it? Ok, I'm going to bed now and will catch up tomorrow. Thanks in advance!

[Catherine Vincent]

113. No, you're not losing it. Thanks for your theory.

Although Novak is anti liberal, he does write articles every now and then bashing the Bush admn. And I remember on cspan a republican caller was bad mouthing Novak calling him a traitor. I couldn't believe what I was hearing, I thought where is this coming from, there is no way that Novak is a traitor to the republican party. There are some republicans that don't trust him.

[bear425]

163. Thanks Catgirl

If anything, Novak is a traitor to the country by outing Plame. I just could not wrap my mind around Hersch's comments. I just get a weird feeling that there is more to Novak and G/G than we know. I just don't know what the connection is, yet.

[understandinglife]

218. All reasonable questions....

...particularly the situation with Novak.

One would think that outing a NOC, if shown to be linked to someone in Bu$h's executive staff, would be sufficient to force his resignation (and Cheney's, if the person reported to Cheney).

It is such a serious crime and a treasonous one given that the country was at war when it happened and the agent outed was deeply involved in the very reasons why we supposedly launched the war.

But Novak stands untouched while other reporters are going to jail.

Just as "Gannon" stands untouched, as far as we know (though we all should be concerned about his decision to no longer 'hide in plain sight').

It is unlikely that most career CIA were very happy about a fellow NOC being outed. Many of them are also unlikely to be very thrilled to be tagged as responsible for mis-intelligence that was used to start an illegal war. I also think that many CIA are not thrilled by the neoCONster Rummy and gang effectively trumping the CIA with a super-secret pentagon-based intelligence (and more) operation.

So, if you imagine Novak and "Gannon" and others wanting to take-down Bu$hco and the neoCONsters, I'd say the "perfect storm" may be brewing -- Plame's outing, "Gannon" outing himself as a prelude to publishing a book of transcriptions of tapes of what may be 'pillow talk' of the kind that the fundies and others would find so repulsive as to demand dethronement of the king whose coronation they recently attended or watched on teeveee.
Peace.

[fooj]

128. Tinfoil alert...

What if they are a plant and they beat us to the library? Creepy thought, isn't it? I thought about it yesterday and had to take a walk on the beach to clear my head. I sware, sometimes I think I've lost it!

Peace.

[mordarlar]

150. Do you mean the library i went to? The books were older.

[fooj]

151. Great. At least we know that much...

Thanks for the info...

BTW-Did you happen to get any names of class/club advisors? 30 years is a long time, however, if the person was in their thirties or forties...they may still be around. Just one more question- Do we know the names of the Junior VP, Secretary and Treasurer when Guckert was Class President?


Peace.

[mordarlar]

164. The junior class officers are Guckert : pres, Debbie Plucinski : VP

Cathy Wilkison : Secetary, Jody Stevenson : Treasurer.

S.C Officers. Guckert : Pres, T. Murray : Treasurer, S. Miller Secretary, K. Lobins : VP.

Soccer Team... Tom Courtney, Steve White, Joel Wolf, Colton Young, Jeff Carr, Gary Clark, Keith Sperry, David Mumford, Dick Feldmiller, Dean Erford, Bill Wilkinson.

Tennis Club advisor... Mr. Boliver.

Junior year Model UN... Dan Dewalt, Paul Smith, Ralph Greco, Randy Nottingham, Don Hilton, Guckert, Jody Stevenson, Raymond Lofink, Peggy Fredricks, David Plyler, Karen Wolf, Amy Roess, LuAnn Boyd. Mr. Magee and Mr. Maxwell.

Senior year Model UN....Guckert, J Stevenson, R. Greco, J. Hanna J. Wargo, M. Adsit, G. Bentley, J. Parfitt. Mr. Maxwell.

Yearbook staff...Sandy Vogan : business manager, Guckert : editor, Mrs. Arlene Baker : advisor.

[hiley]

112. Faye, it does not seem

far-fetched to me. That scenario it what I think over and over. Really, where are all of the kids that thought so highly of guckert in that yearbook ? Someone by now it seems to me would have defended him or something.
The eyes and even the lips are different than gannon.

[fooj]

124. I've suspected that this may be the case for a week or so...

:hi: What's happening, Faye? Feeling any better?

[libertypirate]

155. Um Maybe

1. Harry James Guckert Publisher, 57
New York Times, The (NY) - March 22, 1991

2. Guckert, James W.
Miami Herald, The (FL) - January 5, 1990

Both obits I found but not registered so I can't read...

obitsarchive.com

[mordarlar]

122. 11th and 12th grade photos. : D

[fooj]

134. Sorry about that! Correction on post #91...

...11th and 12th grade photos in the yearbook!!

Hi Mordarlar...thanks for pointing that out! Hanging in there?


Peace.

[sojourner]

173. that's okay, you keep it kicked fooj!

[iconoclastNYC]

194. regardintg no former employers

You dont have to turn many tricks at $200/hr, $1200/weekend to make a decent living, tax free.

If he was a whore, that explains no former employers.

[burn the bush]

94. I don't know if this could be anything or not. Check this out.

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/findaid/blackwel.htm

This is a site for foia records that I am assuming you can request. They are for Morton C Blackwell. This could possibly concern Gannon and Gosch as Blackwell runs the fine educational institute in which Gannon received his journalism degree. Blackwell was also around and politically involved during the Franklin coverup. Though I found nothing directly linking him or accusing him, I did see one small reference to him in the franklin papers. It was just a statement from him on shock how republicans could be involved or something on that order. Nothing really, but he was defenatly a player of the time.

(snip)
BLACKWELL, MORTON C.: Files, 1981-1984 – REAGAN LIBRARY COLLECTIONS

Parts or all of this collection or series of Presidential records are not currently processed or available for research. Some folders, segments or whole boxes are processed and are currently available for research. This available material is noted in bold.

The remainder of the folders listed in these inventories are subject to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests under the provisions of the Presidential Records Act (PRA)


Also wasn't there a pic of him and Weylich,weyclif?(sorry can't remember the name) with the leader of the censur group?

ANyway, there are a few papers here that interest me and these are from the early 80's I believe. But one that caught my eye was this one.

(snip)

OA 4826

Unarranged letters regarding closing of Faith Baptist Church in Nebraska

(unsnip)

I don't have any actual reason I guess, but I found that suspicious.

NOW HERE IS SOMETHING INTERESTING

(snip)

BLACKWELL, MORTON C.: Files, 1981-1984

Office of Public Liaison (Veterans, Conservative Organizations, Religious Groups, Fraternal Organizations, Native Americans <1981-1983>, Roman Catholics <1983-1984>)

Blackwell was the White House liaison to Native American groups until February 1983, when this task was transferred from the Office of Public Liaison to the Office of Intergovernmental Affairs (Rick Neal). After Jack Burgess left the White House in March 1983, Blackwell took over his Roman Catholic portfolio. Blackwell continued to work on Catholic outreach even after Robert Reilly was appointed as the main Catholic liaison in October 1983 (see also the Linas Kojelis collection).

(end of snip)

When Johhy Gosch escaped he lived on Indian reservations because he knew that he couldn't be prosecuted there for any crimes he committed.

COULD THIS BLACKWELL HAVE HAD INVOLVEMENT?

(snip)

(This material was kept in the classified safe in Faith Whittlesey's office. The following material has been identified as belonging to Morton Blackwell.)


I would really like to order these but ummmm have something to take care of before I can risk bringing attention to myself by requesting these files. I believe there is a form that can be filled out and you have to say that you agree to finance x dollar amount of their time and fees for the paperwork. There is a number on the site that can be called or emailed for more info.

I would be glad to pitch in if someone else will order these. If not, I will eventually do it myself when I get my paperwork filed for my own problems. I just thought that it might take me a while to dd that and I'd like to see some of these things. Personal emails. thank you notes, homosexual stuff but most I want to see what happened to the closing of the church in Nebraska?

Do you guys think there is anything of interest here?

[understandinglife]

99. One question. "When Johhy Gosch escaped he lived on Indian reservations ..

... because he knew that he couldn't be prosecuted there for any crimes he committed.

What is the source of this information?

And, please PM Andy with what you have posted, in case he is not reading this thread. He may have insights. Thanks.

Peace.

[burn the bush]

100. his mother. I listened to a radio program that she was on from 2004

the link was from these wrinkles but I don't know where. Maybe wrinkle 15?

[understandinglife]

104. Thank you for that clarification and that reveals the type of savy, ...

...sophistication that is consistent with what he may well be doing now, as "Gannon."

Peace.

[sojourner]

171. agreed...if he's indeed doing what some of us suspect. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

172. Here's a link to just one of her interviews on the Internet where she

discusses Johnny coming to visit her.

Mysteries of the Mind.. rerun from June 17, 2004

http://www.freedomandtrust.com/mp3_metafiles/march_05/mar_03_05.m3u

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

176. The interview was then extended to June 22, 2004 and is on

the Mysteriesofthemind.com website archive from last night, March 10. I don't think it's working yet.

She also gave interiews on 4ACloserLook.com on March 6,2004, and a few after that. Check the archives there.

The bottom line in my book is that to look for a family of Guckert's in relation to Johnny just isn't logical. See my post#93 in this thread.

[Catherine Vincent]

103. Is this the same Blackwell from the Ohio fiasco?

[burn the bush]

108. no, it's not.

[BrwnEyedGirl]

114. I'm new to DU, however I have been following this

Thread from day one. I have lived in Omaha, Ne all my life. As I have been discussing this with MANY co-workers, It has come to my attention that the husband of a fellow worker used to be good friends with Prince King, Larry King's son. I would be more than happy to do some digging around for any useful info.. I may need some guidance as to what specifically you would like for me to research, but it would be my pleasure

[trudyco]

116. Welcome Brwneyedgirl! -nt

[Catherine Vincent]

117. Welcome to DU, BrwnEyedGirl!

Keep posting here and I am sure there will be some questions for you. Just be careful on snooping around on this guy.

[burn the bush]

119. YOU GUYS SEE THIS? A person in Omaha reporting for duty.

You guys got any ideas? Welcome Brwneyedgirl!

:hi:

[burn the bush]

121. thanks for your offer to help. Even if

Jimmy Jeff is not Johnny, it would be great to finally expose this child porn thing wouldn't it? Maybe you could go to the library and check out the closing of the Faith Babtist Church. I am not certain that it was Omaha and I would suppose it would have been in the early 80's.

You might want to look up boy's town and see if there are articles prior to the credit union scandal that might list people who were involved with the Franklin credit union or Boys Town. It could be a little article that would seem unimportant like a photo op of some councilman giving a check to boystown or an announcement that so and so has joined the board. Know what I mean? It could give us little clues as to who had dealings with these groups.

please don't feel obligated. I'm sure that you will be safe in researching as long as you don't call the papers to announce what you are doing.

somebody, whats the names of some of the players that she could search the local records to see if their names pop up anywhere?

[BrwnEyedGirl]

123. I will be glad to help,

I was accidentally brought to this sight by something I must have clicked on MSN. I'm so glad that I did though. I had actually just been discussing Johnny Gosch approx 3 wks before this with a relative and was chilled when I came to this discussion. I remember when all of this happened. I also had a friend of the family that at one point was questioned about some farm land he owned in Sioux City Iowa in connection with all of this, unfortunately he has since passed away of cancer. But this topic has always been a nagging thought in the back of my mind. I am not too concerned about being in harms way @ this point. This subject has not surfaced around here, in the media at least, in a long time. I'll start looking around and see what I can find.

[Catherine Vincent]

125. Thanks, you're great!

:yourock:

[burn the bush]

133. very cool. Good luck.

[imaginary girl]

182. I'd like to know if a james guckert ...

would have been visible (teacher, local hero, friend of family, whatever) to johnny at the time.

I think there was one in Marshallstown (something like that) as per Nonny's post. That's right outside Des Moines.

Thanks regardless!

[ancient_nomad]

138. Welcome...Browneyedgirl

I just joined tonight, too! Hope to see you around,
and stay safe out there!

[BrwnEyedGirl]

143. Thanks Ancient-Nomad

I'm sure I'll be around here for a quite awhile. :hi:

[zann725]

157. There was a thread about 2 mo's ago about a priest named Blackwell in Ohio

involved in several Child Molestation cases. The thread was comparing his picture to that of Kenneth Blackwell...and there WAS an eerie similarity. Don't know if this is THE Blackwell you're referring to?

[libertypirate]

217. I thought they might be brothers too...

couldn't find any thing that links them...

[Catherine Vincent]

98. I agree with understandinglife above....WHERE IS JEFF GANNON?!?!?!

That's why I have Gannon's pic in my sig line. The guy is missing.

[Liberal In Texas]

101. Is it time to put is mug on a milk carton yet?

That might be the second time for him...on the milk carton, eh?

[understandinglife]

105. Probably yes. (nt)

[understandinglife]

102. Yes, he is "missing." And I have had two very unhelpful responses...

....from folk that I thought would be willing to post a "WHERE IS GANNON?" plea.

Should we ask Skinner to do a banner on the front page of DU --

"GANNON IS MISSING: UNTIL WE SEE HIM, HE WILL REMAIN CLASSIFIED AS MISSING."

Or something like that.

Peace.

[Catherine Vincent]

106. It wouldn't hurt to send Skinner an email.

Or one of us can start a thread as you suggested "Where is Jeff Gannon". The regulars on this wrinkle thread can kick it several times a day. No chit chat...just kick it. We could do that if no one else can help. What do you think?

[understandinglife]

107. I like your idea of starting a thread....

...and then, with the thread started, we can request that Skinner consider posting it on the front page.

Can you please start the thread as I am leaving now for a dinner engagement and will not be back on-line until after 11pm PST.

Thanks and Peace.

[Catherine Vincent]

111. I don't mind starting it.

It should be up by the time you get back online. Enjoy dinner!:hi:

[hiley]

115. So relieved that you guys

are going to try to get Where is Gannon on the front page !
I frickin' worry about him constantly even my husband has been concerned about him. Seems a little freaky that he has not made any appearances because he sure seemed to enjoy the spot light.

[Catherine Vincent]

118. The subject will be "WHERE IS JEFF GANNON?"

The body of the thread will be:

This post is an effort to find out the whereabouts of Jeff Gannon aka James Guckert. Jeff Gannon has not been seen on television since February 24th on NBC's Today show interviewed by Campbell Brown. That interview had the caption "Who Is Jeff Gannon?" Well the caption now is "Where Is Jeff Gannon?" His radio interview a few days back does not count for obvious reasons.

--------------

If anyone think I should add anything, let me know. And I hope I don't get too many flames for this post from other DUers that think this would be a waste of time.

[troubleinwinter]

127. Seems kinda nutzie to me. OK,

he may be an odd person, but he doesn't need to be harassed into constant public scrutiny just at this moment.

[Catherine Vincent]

131. Thanks for responding. But this isn't to harass him.

Some of us are really concerned for his safety. We just want to make sure that the guy is still around. That's all.

[hiley]

149. Cat you are right it is

not harassing him we are just concerned. Thru all of the wrinkles threads there have been comments wondering if he will be "suicided" so it makes sense to me to want to see him.

[fooj]

130. I personally want to commend your pro-active approach...

No flames from me! Don't worry about "flames"...just do what you think is right and you'll be ok!! Thanks for getting this started- I've often wondered within the last week or so if he was ok. We are rattling some cages-you can bet the farm on that one...

Peace.

[Catherine Vincent]

153. Sorry for the late reply, fooj. Thank you.

We should also thank understandinglife and the other posters that wondered the whereabouts of Gannon. I thought by including his pic in my sig line, it would help but the new thread would help better.

[fooj]

154. No worries. Check your in-box, ok?

Peace.

[fooj]

126. Get a load of this... We are making them crazy!

I check the Cannonfire blog occasionally and look what I found this evening...

"One thought keeps nagging at me--Why hasn't Gannon/Guckert HIMSELF made political hay out of the Gosch Theory? One would think that he would use this controversy as an excuse to tweak the noses of the folks on Democratic Underground..." He makes a very interesting point! Let's face it- these people are ruthless when they want to de-bunk a story. Strangely enough, they are leaving this story alone. At least for now.


THIS IS WHAT REALLY MADE ME THINK THAT WE'VE RATTLED A FEW CAGES...

"A few minutes ago, I tried to access the Democratic Undergound site (www.democraticunderground.com). My browser was redirected to what looked like the home page for an ISP -- which offered the following "services" listed in a column running down the center of the page: "Cum," "Cum drinking," "Anal cum," and so forth.

I checked to make sure I had not mis-typed the URL; I had not. The page remained on screen for a few seconds, then blinked off into nothingness, locking up my browser. After a restart, I went back to DU, which now looks the way it usually does.

Looks like some right-wing hacker has some odd obsessions..."

WHY ON EARTH WOULD SOMEONE DO THIS? I'VE GOT A FEW THEORIES...I'm sure you can only imagine...

[Liberal In Texas]

162. This sounds like a good old browser hijack.

I'm guessing you use IE.
You probably have a hijack and they're kind of hard to get rid of. It's like a virus or a trojan. I think it could even be in the registry.
Someone more tekkie than me may be able to help.

But I don't think you've been targeted any more than anyone else that blundered into the site that gave it to you.

[libertypirate]

167. Try a program called....

spyware doctor...

It's not a virus, it's reporting software...

[ancient_nomad]

132. My First Post

This is the first time I have ever belonged to a forum.
So,please excuse any errors. I have a confession to make,
I have been reading DU since before the election. I found
you guys thru Elizabeth Edwards mentioning she read this forum.
Now this thread has sparked my interest :-)), so tonight I
joined. Yea!

A while back I came across a jfk site where a forensic artist
who works with the Houston police dept. did some analysis of
photos on "the three tramps" arrested the day of JFK's assass-
ination. I think it would help in analyzing the pictures mordalar
posted of JG. There are 8 pages and it takes awhile to load on
dial up, but well worth the time. Here is the link:
http://jfkmurdersolved.com/lois1.htm

Each face has certain characteristics that remain constant throughout one's life and are unique to that individual; eg: how the eyes are set,the distance between the end of the nose and the lips, plus lots more. The artist's name is Lois Gibson. She teaches forensic drawing courses at Northwestern, has been featured in magazines,was on CBS The Early Show about a year or so ago, and is recognized worldwide. Her website is: http://www.loisgibson.com/

(sorry I don't know how to hyperlink the websites- just copy
and paste)

If anyone is interested in this, I hope it helps. Reading the first site I listed FIRST would be best...I think it would give you guys, who know what you are doing with the pictures, alot of ideas!

I think you all are a really great bunch and I am very happy to be
here.
:hi:

[burn the bush]

135. Welcome Aboard! Glad to have you.

:hi:

[ancient_nomad]

137. Thanks burn the bush

[Catherine Vincent]

140. Welcome!

Glad you're here.

[ancient_nomad]

144. Thanks cat_girl 25

[imaginary girl]

139. Yes, welcome. And thanks for the info!

[ancient_nomad]

Thanks Imaginary girl....

Hopefully this info will help.

[imaginary girl]

145. Did you notice the quote on the first website you linked?

I think we may need to invite her opinion in this matter!

"If you shut up the truth and bury it under the ground, it will but grow, and gather to itself such explosive power that the day it bursts through it will blow up everything in its way."

- French author Emile Zola

[ancient_nomad]

147. Yes....I had the same idea

So much is going on. Wouldn't it be great if she would volunteer her services to compare the photos mordalar got to the current ones of JG.
One way or the other, it would be so helpful. Plus we might find out if all the pics of JG are one and the same person.

[imaginary girl]

181. or age progress johnny gosch photo ... n/t

[burn the bush]

146. nice site. thanks for posting it.

[ancient_nomad]

148. which site did you check out?

The JFK site or Lois Gibson's?

[troubleinwinter]

168. ancient nomad... Yes!

This is EXACTLY what I have been suggesting for some time! A forensics expert who works with photos!! Great links! Thank you so much.

[St. Benedict]

142. Gabe Caggiano pics...

I rented the film, "Radioland Murders" yesterday and I took a photo of Gabe Caggiano when he came onscreen. I have a 43" television. Here is another shot so you can see the perimieter of the tv itself:



For those who don't know why this is important, remember that "Gabe Caggiano" is a "reporter" for a weekly newspaper in Maryland called the Montgomery County Sentinel. Gabe Caggiano has done multiple interviews with Jeff Gannon/James Guckert. It is very curious that Gannon would choose to speak SO MUCH to this particular reporter. After struggling to find a decent photo of Gabe Caggiano, I took this screenshot from the VHS tape of a movie he appeared in (1994) called "Radioland Murders" where he played Cop #2.

What is strange, and why this is important is just HOW MUCH "Gabe Caggiano" resembles our Jeff Gannon/James Guckert.

Notice the CLEFT CHIN, the wide LOWER LIP, the POINTED EARS, the STRONG NOSE, and the EYES. Oh, and he was SHORT in the film. Gannon/Guckert's porn site described him as 5'9".

I found some even more disturbing info on Caggiano that I will share in the morning.

For now, here are the only other known photos of reporter "Gabe Caggiano":

[Catherine Vincent]

152. Hi St. B!

I see you finally found a way to get a different and better pic of Caggiano. Is there a way to resize it smaller, I think the mods frown on large pics. You're right, he does favor Gannon. And it is odd that Gannon is supposedly going to Caggiano. Why him?

[nonny]

158. "Gannon, is not taking my phone calls or returning them"--Caggiano

http://www.thesentinel.com/344559780258760.php

Gannon becomes grist for the media mill
By Gabe Caggiano

<snip>
Unfortunately, Gannon didn't stem the tide with his appearance on Blitzer's show. The Washington Post, on Thursday printed a story about Gannon which refers to naked pictures of him and his possible inclusion on a gay web site offering male escorts. Gannon also, according to the Wilmington News-Journal, owes more than $20,000 in back taxes to the state of Delaware.

I feel very sorry for the man I know as Jeff Gannon, whose real name is James Dale Guckert. And while I feel empathy for him, I also feel betrayed. He wasn't candid nor honest with me when I offered my support and counsel.

As of this writing, James Dale Guckert, AKA Jeff Gannon, is not taking my phone calls or returning them.

While I agree he has to own up for his actions, I hope he finds a way to rebuild his life. As for a career in journalism, I think the curtain has come down for good on James Dale Guckert.
________________________

Interesting pictures St. Benedict, I have saved and will study.

[lostnfound]

160. That is disturbing. nt

[Moosepoop]

161. Thank you, St. Benedict!!!!

At least now, even if this turns out to be nothing, I know I'm not crazy for seeing a physical resemblance between these two guys!!!

I've done some digging on Caggiano in the last couple of weeks, and have some strange stuff that I don't know what to make of. Can't wait to see what you have uncovered on him!
Would you care to have the info I've got (loosely compiled as it is)? His frenetic work history is part of it, but it's his appearance on some forums and some exchanges with other people that are really weird.

Some of them appear staged (I think the some of the other "posters" are really him too), but some of them seem like genuine warnings and threats that go back and forth between him and someone else.
Could be I'm reading too much into them, but I'd like to share my niggling suspicions with somebody to see if they carry any water.

I've been obsessed with this guy and checking him out lately, so thanks again for getting that movie and his picture. It's good to know my eyes and brain weren't playing tricks on me, even if Gabe and Jeff turn out to not be the same person after all.

[St. Benedict]

165. Caggiano info share

Moosepoop -

I am resizing the photos for the post now.

I am also compiling my research to post shortly.

I would love to see your info. This site is not allowing me to PM - says I don't have enough posts.

How will we reach each other? Or are you ready to post an executive summary of your research?

St. Benedict

[Moosepoop]

190. St. Benedict...

I very much want to reach you to compare notes.
Neither of us can PM on this site yet, so that's out. My research is nowhere near ready for an executive summary, or fit for posting. I'm still trying to organize it and am always adding things to it. In short, it's a mess.

Hope to see your post before I have to leave for work, perhaps I can add to it or draw from it, ya know?
In the meantime, I'm going to create a yahoo mail account separate from my usual one, using my screenname here. Then I'll post that e-mail address so we can use that.

I'd hate to post some of my thoughts outright without conferring with someone first.
They seem off the wall even to me at this point, and I wouldn't want everyone to think I'm a nut (besides those who already know me). :)

[St. Benedict]

193. Excellent idea...Moosepoop

I will also create a yahoo account with my ID here so we can communicate.

I am anxious to post an executive summary of what I've found so that others can do follow-up research on it and perhaps see things I have not.

Mine is complicated too, and I hope to have it compiled coherently by end of day!

St. Benedict

[St. Benedict]

211. my email for Moosepoop

[e-mail]

[St. Benedict]

212. my email for Moosepoop

[e-mail]

[St. Benedict]

166. Resizing photos

Sorry the previous pics came out so big. It was late last night, and I didn't realize they would come out like that. It wouldn't let me edit the previous post, so here's the resize:

[Moosepoop]

188. Compare these.....

I "flipped" the picture of J/G wearing the ballcap in order to line up the face angle with the other, so it's mainly the left side of his face in that pic, rather than the right side. But still... they look pretty darn close to me.

[Sparkle]

197. The ear lobe look different.

[Moosepoop]

198. They're opposite ears

due to the "ballcap" picture being reversed.

[Sparkle]

205. It may be reversed but I am sure his lobes are the same on both sides.

Gannon's lobes aren't as long as the other guy's lobes. Other than that, they do look alike.

[imaginary girl]

183. Actually the first pic looks more like a young Al Gore to me! n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

232. Well, St. Benedict. I was wrong.

I guess those pics aren't too large to post. Carry on.:-)

[nonny]

159. Inevitable

I stopped searching images with the title of Inevitable, and searched the Web. Found this article --- never read this guy before --- and started thinking about libertypirate's theory of say one thing -- mean the opposite.
Maybe we are searching for the wrong title.

Here is the article:
http://www.barrylank.com/4_5_04.html

IT'S ALWAYS "INEVITABLE"
4/5/2004
Have you ever noticed that President Bush’s people call everything inevitable? His election was inevitable. The attacks on the World Trade Center in 2001? Inevitable too. Nothing anyone could have done about them.

Problems with the economy are inevitable. It was going to sink no matter what. But it wasn’t going to rise no matter what. For that, we needed huge tax cuts, even though nothing really improved after we had them – which, when you think about it, was inevitable.

And since Bush believes in the rapture, the end of all human life is inevitable – and the sooner the better. Armageddon is inevitable. Sorry, but there it is. If you’re not a Christian, Hell is inevitable. On the other hand, for the Jews, the survival of Israel is inevitable, because it will bring about the end of the world.

The point, overall, is that President Bush is not responsible for anything. None of us are, really. Everything was predestined before we got here. So nothing we do can really change anything – even though Bush is changing all kinds of things. And when they go wrong, they’re not his fault because his presidency was inevitable. So we can hardly blame him for it.
<snip>
__________
3 more paragraphs to go...
"what’s the opposite of inevitable?"
"That’s what happens with free will"

[libertypirate]

170. I think it is an overall theme "inevitable"

It is possible that it describes the events as they relate between the characters involved. There is problem with trying to interpret vague context out little information, the absence of a prior shared context to frame the representative imagery. Gannon and Bush share context that we don't so the meaning of the piece could be totally lost on us.

I don't think gannon is talking to us the public as much as he is targeting others like him in the media and other places. I think that is why he focuses on the term "divorced from reality". They are after all the words that affected great change for him.

After all prying loose others in his position would help him.

[nonny]

175. Red strings---- Kabbalah--- Unlimited World

“Deciphering the Secrets”
A Mystic Branch of Judaism Called Kabbalah Attracts Jews and Non-Jews Alike

<snip>
The red strings are modern-day symbols of Kabbalah, or Jewish mysticism. Kabbalah is a branch of Judaism that’s been gaining popularity, with the help of celebrities, among Jews and non-Jews alike.

<snip>
Appropriate, then, that one of the biggest proponents of escaping the “material world” is none other than the Material Girl herself.

“It takes you away from the world of limitation into an unlimited world,” Shokek says. “Anything can happen, everything is possible.”

http://www.washingtonian.com/inwashington/buzz/kabbalah.html

______________________

Still have not found the painting.

[sojourner]

169. Inevitable...

Interesting find, that image. And Nonny (thanks for bringing that article :yourock:) may have something, going by (who was it who first introduced the idea of looking at JDG's stuff as "abstractions"?)-

Likewise wepainttrucks.com -- anyone know how to tell when a web page was put up? Last updated? Etc. I think that we should find out, if possible. (I thought I read over at propagannon that his personal web page hadn't been updated in long while). -- Speaking of which, anyone else notice anything odd about the adverts at www.wepainttrucks.com? Clues??

And THANKS MORDARLAR for going to get the photos from the yearbook!!!! :bounce: :bounce:
I guess I agree with UL and a couple of others here. There's something a little off with the eyes and mouth. Although a stunning resemblance, otherwise. Might be a good reason to take the identity. For whom, and why is another question.

How tall does HS Guckert look? Gannon seems a little on the short side. Do Guckert and Gannon match up height-wise? Anyone know how to tell?

Also intrigued by the fact that Guckert the school leader comes out of nowhere to be Mr. Popular....geesh. More ya learn the more ya know how much ya don't know!!

Can't get myself to buy the idea that Johnny Gosch was stolen because of looking like Guckert. What other "qualities" could he have had????????????

Note to merh, mordarlar, sfexpat2000 - nothing of use came of my search on the poster that I was looking at. Guess it was my radar misfiring....

[St. Benedict]

174. Guckert's height

Guckert looks short from the HS yearbook photos, particularly the one where he is sitting on the steps. Note the shortness of his limbs.

Gannon is clearly short and very stocky from all of his photos.

[sojourner]

177. Got it --- TKS!

[trudyco]

178. Do those shoes and pants fit the era?

His pants aren't bell bottoms. What are they? And those shoes - are they from that era? Wonder why he is sitting, seems like a lousy photo.

[Zap]

184. Yeah, the clothes check out.

It was the early 80's, so bell bottoms would have been over for a while...and the nikes are from the early 80's too. He looks like a typical early 80's kid, in my opinion.

[useyourhead]

186. Isn't this pic from '74-'75?

For the record, this isn't the early 80's, is it?

[Zap]

240. Wait...

we're talking about the pic that's on the cover of the "Why Johnny Can't Come Home" book, right?


If so, then there's no way that could be from 74-75....he was born in 1969, right? the pic shows him with a paper boy bag over his shoulder. He was doing a paper route at age 5 or 6? that couldn't be right. the kid in that pic is way older than 5 or 6.

The pic on the cover of the book also says "This photo was taken shortly before Johnny disappeared.", which was in 1981.

[nonny]

179. Gosch's height at 12 yr. ---- 5'7" 140 lbs

This info came from the missing flyer.

http://www.childsearch.org/john_gosch.html

[mordarlar]

180. Damn i am 5' 7 " Tall kid.

[Sparkle]

185. The boy in the pic above looks short.

But, imo, Gannon doesn't look at all short. If you notice the videos with Wolf Blitzer and Campbell Brown, he seemed tall. With Wolf Blitzer, he was sitting but the full shot you could see his body structure under the table he was sitting at. And with Campbell, they showed him walking. He seemed tall to me, Like 5 feet 10.

[mordarlar]

187. I agree, he never seemed short to me.

[hiley]

189. Gannon does not

appear to be short to me either. HS guckert does look shorter, in my opinion.

I still am fascinated with the abstract artwork.

[St. Benedict]

191. On bellbottoms and Nike sneakers...

The Guckert photos are authentic to their time period ('73-'74) and the Gosch photo is authentic to its time period (1982).

Note the bellbottoms on girl to Guckert's left:


Note blue Nike sneakers and Addidas shirt on Gosch:


Note height in the group photo:


Note height with Hannity:


More height demos:

[useyourhead]

195. Strange pics.....

What are those two photos at the bottom of your post?
where did those come from? Are they supposed to be Gannon?

[St. Benedict]

199. Yes, those photos are Gannon...

They came from a screen capture of Gannon's website. Note he is wearing a "I'm a Conservative Guy" T-shirt in the photos, which he sells on his conservativeguy website. I believe the photo with Hannity is from the same day.

[useyourhead]

203. Link please?

could you please direct me to these photos please?
I'd like to research this further...

[troubleinwinter]

208. I had seen that photo before (t-shirt)

and as I recall, it was on his www.theconservativeguy.com website, on one of the pages where he sold "stuff". The site is gone, and I do not see the picture there now from this cached version. But you can see the "mechandise" t-shirt. The coffe mugs & etc. are no longer there. It was all there a couple of weeks ago... semi-scrubbed now.

main page:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040213162508/www.theconservativeguy.com/WHOisFP.htm

"stuuf" page:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040213162508/www.theconservativeguy.com/WHOisFP.htm

[St. Benedict]

214. the photos came from his website

www.conservativeguy.com

...which I believe is now scrubbed. He had a long list of images. Most of them of political figures (Hillary, Condi, etc.) along with logos for the GOP/USA website (Talon), and then some pictures of himself. I pulled all the photos of him, but none of the others.

[sojourner]

216. Group photo is Karmakinc folks

and unless I've missed something, there's no certainty that that bald fellow is Guckert. Does have a slight resemblence but lots of people here immediately convinced it's not him. Just FYI.

[mordarlar]

220. LOOK at the Conservative guy and the Tarmak photos.

These ones appear to be the same man. But they do not look like Gannon.

[St. Benedict]

221. the conservative guy..

is his site, and the group photo is from wepainttrucks, whichis registerd to Guckert in PA. What are these Tarmack photos you are referring to?

These photos of him with Hannity and in the T-shirt are definitely him, and they came from his site, as the group photo came from his AOL site.

[mordarlar]

223. I have long been working on a theory of MULTIPLE Guckerts.

While it may acknowledged as him, i do not think it is the "same" him. Make sense?

It is similar to what has been found out regarding Lee Harvey Oswald. Google Two Oswalds.

[St. Benedict]

224. two Guckert/Gannon/Gosch

Yes, this is part of a theory I have been researching tied to Caggiano, which I am compiling to post hoefully today.

[useyourhead]

227. several gannons?

With all due respect, and assuming you are not spreading misinformation intentionally...I suggest you brush up on how to compare facial features before you come up with any more theories.
Just a suggestion...

[mordarlar]

229. Are you speaking to me?

[useyourhead]

231. No, sorry......

I didn't mean that for you. I was answering St. Benedict, cause I was surprised at how far off those "Gannon" pics are, and he doesn't seem to notice.

[St. Benedict]

242. Gannon & Bush photo

I think my observations regarding the similarities of their features are right on target. As I recall, ALL speculation and theories are welcome here in the course of our investigation.

Here's a bigger photo for you:

[understandinglife]

249. "ALL speculation and theories are welcome here...." -- Yes, and...

....probably most would agree that what should be avoided are:

1. flames of any sort;
2. any attempt whatever to equate homosexuality with any form of criminal behavior (especially stuff like pedophilia);
3. unsubstantiated information, i.e., posting a photo or quote without links;
4. stuff from The Barnes Review and other "holocaust denial, neo-nazi, etc." sites.

Peace.

[trudyco]

233. That was my point - girl has Bbottoms, Guckert photo does not!

And I don't know if those shoes fit the era. Just trying to fathom if somebody could have tampered with the local library's school yearbook.

Photo anamolies I've seen:
Earliest photo of Guckert appears to have mole on cheek,not elsewhere. Some photos look very geekish, some look very in-crowd. The only guy around in group photos seems to be Grecko - what a coinky-dink. Possibly watch on different wrist from current Gannon. I think this photo of him sitting is awkward. Part of the stairs seems to be going into his pant leg. Not sure about the period of his clothing, but everybody at my school always wore jeans. Easterners sometimes wore slacks, right? This Guckert is not in previous year's yearbook but makes class president. Then he goes on to a non-prestigious college (who stated that?). Then he disappears, supposedly teacher and in military, and pops up in car painting company photos.

The Karmak photo is wierd. Everybody has shadows under his chin except the 2 on the front left. The guy in left back is shadowed by the guy in front but nobody else is in shadow. The guy fourth from left in back is really jutting his head out. Could be a photo hack job.

That's what I've seen so far. So what is the name of the local paper?

[libertypirate]

192. I have been pointing to the abstraction... Not sure if I was first...

I see the abstraction as a pattern. As how they setup a false identity, and how they imply truth through the use of common abstractions.

They use the abstractions to assimilate a fake persons background to a real persons background. It makes it hard to define who is who as we have been finding out.

[Zap]

246. yeah...

...it doesn't make sense when viewed outside of it's own arena. If nothing had ever happened with the exposure of gannon (no pun intended) then no one would have ever thought twice, but now that something big has happened and loose ends can be connected, it starts to take on this strange, abstract, almost childish, identity of it's own.

to me the use of "JDG" used over and over and over seems childish. I know that that could just be for continuity's sake for gannon/guckert/gosch...so he can say, "yep, those are my initials, 'JDG'...yep that's me..." but it seems so weird and "wink wink"-ish....like something a little kid would do.

Sometimes when I think about the possibility that this is all some bizarre giant plot, I feel like I'm a little kid who's parents are saying, "no, you FINISHED all the candy...no more candy left..." when the child can clearly see that there IS more candy in the bag....but then he gives up fighting it and just decides that his parents must be right since they know everything.

[St. Benedict]

196. Gannon/Guckert travelling with the President?

Here are 2 photos that show what appears to be Gannon with Bush:






I was able to verify the date and event of this photo. It was taken in Minnesota on April 26, 2004 at a campaign stop. Bush arrived at 9 am and left at 12:54 pm after attending a $25,000 a plate luncheon. Here's the story:

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/04/26_zdechlikm_bushvisit/

BY THE WAY, THE AP YAHOO LINK TO THIS CAMPAIGN STOP STORY THAT ORIGINALLY RAN THIS PHOTO OF BUSH WITH GANNON HAS BEEN SCRUBBED. Hmmm.... why is that?

The photos were taken by photographer Mark Zdechlik. Here's his link:

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/tools/search/author/author_collection.php?id=78


Nevermind how did Gannon get into the Press Room... What on earth was Gannon doing travelling with the President - presumably on Air Force One?

[useyourhead]

200. Not Gannon!

Sorry, but these are not Gannon.You seem to be jumping the gun there, don't you think?

[Sparkle]

202. They don't look like Gannon to me either.

The nose is different.

[Sparkle]

201. There really are a slew of pics out there with Bush doing this. Check this

[St. Benedict]

209. BUSH LIKES BALD HEADS

Check these two links for collage of photos:

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/02/smoking-scalp.html

http://juliusblog.blogspot.com/2004_04_01_juliusblog_archive.html#108300556134138351

[trudyco]

245. If it isn't state secrets - wonder if Madsen can shed light on

how agents go incognito and if he heard of agents being doppelgangered. Also, if bald heads mean anything. They sure seem to make people less easy to identify. I've decided all bald men look alike.

Maybe its the secret Bulldog service. Instead of a secret handshake bush pats them on the head.

Is Rev Moon bald?

[troubleinwinter]

206. This is NOT Gannon.

[St. Benedict]

207. jumping the gun?...not at all...

How many 5'9" men, of the correct age, with shaved heads, a cleft chin, a strong nose, brown eyes, a wide lower lip, pointed ears, and a thick neck...can there possibly be in the White House that would have close personal access to the President??

[useyourhead]

210. misinformation is rampant

Look, just keeping the REAL information straight is difficult enough without confusing the issue with a bunch of pics of unidentified men with shaved heads. This is getting comical!
Those aren't Gannon.

[St. Benedict]

213. I totally disagree...

you only have to believe your own eyes.

Why are you so deadset against it being him?

And why is the Yahoo link scrubbed?

Please demonstrate another man in Bush's circle who so closely matches Gannon's physical attributes.

[sojourner]

215. That guy definitely NOT Gannon!! n/t

[hiley]

226. that is not gannon

debunked a couple weeks ago from dkos and du. Some other bald guy, really. It is talked about in early wrinkles threads.:shrug:

[Mnemosyne]

204. Ted Gunderson claimed on Mysteries of the Mind this week

that Noreen has confirmed that Gannon/Guckert is Johnny Gosch. I've been trying to link to find day but won't let me.
Said scar on cheek is same and scar like South America on chest that appears attempted removed looks same place on Guckert.

This is what I listened to last night.

Also very concerned for him. Ted G. hoping book Gannon is writing is to out perverts in the WH. Hope to God he is right and G/G/G is hiding to protect self.

Personally feel he was safer "hiding in plain sight".

[nonny]

222. Mysteries of the Mind -- link

http://www.mysteriesofthemind.com/Archives/2005/archives200503.htm

[troubleinwinter]

234. WHO are these people???!!!!

http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:BOfdywa-GSEJ:www.adelaideinstitute.org/2003TBRConference/tbr2.htm+ted+gunderson&hl=en

Are they Holocaust deniers? Ted Gunderson is a speaker.

Who is this Dale Crowley? http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:c8Y4f-TYymEJ:www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/lumpy/329/chr_fdn.html+Dale+Crowley&hl=en

[understandinglife]

238. One of those links is to stuff.....

...from The Barnes Review -- bad folk, really bad -- right at the forefront of the revisionist, holocaust denier crowd.

Peace.

[hiley]

251. those links go to

some scary people. taking over government and wow, I don't even know what to think.

[yebrent]

235. hmmm. interesting.

the cheek scar came up many wrinkles ago, but seemed to go anywhere, despite what IMO is a striking similarity. I've only seen one Gannon photo that shows the cheek scar, and that is the pic at jeffgannon.com. Does anyone else have photos of gannon/guckert that show the cheek scar?

[St. Benedict]

244. The cheek scar...

I am listening to the Ted Gunderson appearance on "Mysteries Of The Mind" as I type and Ted is talking about the scar on Gosch's cheek. Please look at this Caggiano photo from the film.

Note the scar:

[understandinglife]

247. Yes, I see it. And, Those Eyes and that chin....will be interesting to...

....see a comparison with the 12 y/o Johnny Gosch photo, for sure.

Peace.

[yebrent]

248. Isn't that the opposite cheek?

the Gosch and Gannon scar is on the other side. Plus it is more below the eye, (just in case the photo you included is reversed.)

The photo on the top left of jeffgannon.com clearly shows the scar. What I find interesting about that photo is that it looks darkened, which results in showing the scar in greater clarity. If one were going to put up a photo at their website, I would think they might choose one with better lighting.

You can compare both scar pictures at demopedia (although they make no mention of the scar coincidence):

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Gannongate_Wrinkles

[Ferry Fey]

219. That painting of the sphere with the threads

I can't believe the way people are riffing on what this might "be."

It's a stylized hot-air balloon.

[Catherine Vincent]

228. Well when it was first posted, they were asking if anyone knew

what it was. Why didn't you speak up? Doesn't look like a hot air balloon to me. Do you know where it came from?

[understandinglife]

225. It's now "Steve or Randy cannot take your call" at Karmack....

....so the vmail has changed since Monday, 7 March 2005:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3231526#3231623

See links #26, 55, 174.

Maybe someday, somebody will answer that business phone and can talk to "Manager J D Guckert."

Peace.

[trudyco]

230. Steve Carlyle - do you know the spelling? Any relation to the

Carlyle group?

[understandinglife]

236. Not likely. But I thought it ironic that ....

...the vmail on Monday included the name "Carlyle." And, if it is a front, its rather cheekie.

Peace.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

237. The Carlyle Group was named after the Carlyle Hotel. n/t

[understandinglife]

239. Yeap. Have seen some interesting folk at breakfast there. (nt)

Peace.

[understandinglife]

243. Time for # 18?? (nt)

Peace.

[BamaBecky]

250. The nose bugs me between Gannon and the 12 yr old Gosch.......

Little Johnny has a wide flat bridge at the top of his nose between his eyes. Gannon's nose has a tiny bridge at top and protrudes out a good bit. How could they be the same person? Do people change that much? I'm curious?