Gannongate Wrinkles 16

[EFerrari]

Previous thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3243335&mesg_id=3243335&page=

Wrinkles at Demopedia:
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Gannongate_Wrinkles

Jeff Gannon at Demopedia:
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Jeff_Gannon

[EFerrari]

1. Jeff Gannon just posted a new WH policy paper under his

by line. http://www.jeffgannon.com/News/news03092005.htm

Check it out. Then read one of his columns.

[Bethany Rockafella]

2. Gannon is a big fan of Bush...ain't he?

I wonder how he felt about one of the better president's this nation had...President Clinton.

[EFerrari]

4. Oh, he'll tell you

What's interesting to me is this is the first one he's posted since he was busted. How did he get it? :hi:

[intheflow]

19. I think it was a speech, not a policy paper.

sfexpat, I didn't see a policy paper on Gannon's page, but a report of a speech made by Bush at the National Defense University.

That being said, Gannon was either given a copy of the speech or was at the event. Because he quotes things that weren't in the press release:

WH Press Release 3/9/05
"Global Message: From remarks by President Bush, National Defense University, Washington, DC 3/8/05"
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/03/20050309.html

Here's a photo of Bush leaving the podium with some of the crowd visible. I don't see him, but that doesn't mean he wasn't there.

[EFerrari]

23. Yes, it was a speech and papers carried the text.

But what is posted at the website is basically a policy paper. And JimmyJeff didn't write it or even piece it together. (Or to use my lame model, Rational Guy and Personal Guy didn't write it together or apart.)

[intheflow]

45. Agreed,

it doesn't read as though he wrote it. And I guess I took the "policy paper" term too literally. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

58. I sure would like to find the original.

I posted a request for help on the thread about plagaring JDG.
This is important, imo, because it's the first visible contact between JDG and the WH since he resigned. That was about two weeks ago?

[merh]

3. Images

[EFerrari]

5. Thanks, merh! n/t

[merh]

30. Why you are welcome of course, wish we had all the many faces

in one image to post - my eyes are so tired of looking at them, but they are good to have to refer too when necessary.

FWIW - I still have a problem with the eyes and the lips! :shrug: They don't change that much with maturity.

BTW: Check out the link in my sig!

[EFerrari]

40. This is funny. I don't know how to do that! lol

I've only been here since late November and only started reading outside the Elections Forum very recently.

[merh]

43. I just added it to my sign line, as if posting a photo in a thread.

Someone else posted it in the lounge yesterday, I couldn't resist with all of our innocent inquiries! LOL!!!

[EFerrari]

63. merh, could you explain again what you mean about the mouth? n/t

[merh]

134. In my opinion, the young guckert's lips are too full.

Especially the top lip. I am not crazy about Must_Be_Free's montage because it is decieving. The image of the boy doesn't fade out properly and the facial features of bulldog are not seen. Most of the photos are of the facial features of the boy. If you used traced paper like we did in the old days (along with carbon paper to make copies) you would have the facial features of gannon traced on the paper. Then you would put the paper over the boy's photo. If you did that, you would see that the the boys lips (especially the top lip) are fuller than bulldog's lips.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=printer_friendly&forum=104&topic_id=3240504&mesg_id=3243259

[bear425]

137. But don't lips shrink as one ages?

Especially, the top lip gets thinner as one gets older. Just my two pennies.

[merh]

147. I had to go look in the mirror and compare my lips to my high

school photo to make sure I can say this, but I have to differ with you. Mine haven't changed.

[EFerrari]

140. Thanks, merh. Wanted to make sure I understood.

And we have to add in, this is a man who might just alter his appearance for a number of reasons, from cosmetic considerations to professional ones.

[bush_is_wacko]

48. Who's the middle guy? n/t

[merh]

55. the missing boys father.

John Gosch, Sr.

[bush_is_wacko]

96. Thanks. I keep trying to pick these MANY threads back up and

find it frustrating because there is ALWAYS a new bit of information to look through.

BTW, I think your dead on about G/G/G/ trying to tactfully and SAFELY out himself. It all makes sense.

[merh]

99. LOL - I know what you mean about all the new things being posted

Just when I have something digested and am ready to respond, I go to reply and the thread is locked.

I hope others don't think you are wacko, those of us that share the opinion you affirm are small in number and considered kooks! But you know what, I love my :tinfoilhat:!

[bush_is_wacko]

129. Oh hell! I'm way too old to care what all the other kids think!

Age has a tendency to make one believe the old walk like a duck saying. When I was younger I used to think my tinfoil hat father in law was really a paranoid schizophrenic. Now that he's dead I wish he could lend me some insight into all this mess. He was talking about this stuff 20 years ago with real knowledge. He was a maximum security prison guard so he heard a lot of stuff that would blow people's mind!

[EFerrari]

141. Here's to age immunity : )

[merh]

144. The grapevine of the prison system is more reliable and faster

than the internet! It's amazing what the cons know and how they find things out. Their communication system is more secure than a computer with every firewall imaginable.

[bush_is_wacko]

148. Yep! And now I know why my FIL had a loaded gun within reach every

minute of his life except the day he died in a hospital bed. BTW, He could give HST a run for his money. They looked and sounded like twins. They weren't related in any way I know of but my FIL read several of his books and this thread has certainly given me some chills with regard to HST, double identities, and the like!

[Fovea]

6. Freedom is on the march in the middle east!

Or rather, it will be, once it gets its prosthetic leg from
the VA hospital.

Talk about Divorced from Reality(tm)...

[EFerrari]

7. Where did he get the policy paper?

I don't read the WH site enough to search there very well.

It would be interesting to find out where he got this. Did he just lift it from somewhere? Or, was is faxed to him or ?

Here's a Counterpunch article busting the pResidential speech writers for ripping off Camus. (What a bunch of losers these people are.)
http://www.mggpillai.com/print.php3?artid=9690

[manna]

13. Sometimes when you are looking

..for something you find allot more than you wanted to.

"The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media." --Former CIA Director William Colby ...


I find that the Gosh/Gannongate has led many people to for the first time actually find out there was a Franklin Cover-up, if there is a real parallel with Gannongate it's the fact that the mainstream media has once again rolled over on this one. The big difference now is the blogs have come of age and taken this to a new level (I love synchronicity).


We all find it hard to believe that Occult angle has crept in and weirdness and most people would prefer denial than face the ugly truth here. Were the Nazi's not founded in the occult? We know where that ended.

I read much speculation on the last thread about the tenuous connection between the Franklin Scandal and Gannongate. Well yes there is no outward connection if you know nothing about this 'deep politics'and rely on the MSM, but if you have read a thing or two on it you would know that this is just the way things are. And now there is another Franklin/Gannongate connection -Hunter Thompson.

Then the bombshell Paul William Roberts dropped on Alex Jones
—-
CALLER “Scott from Texas”: I was just wondering if you guys might be able to clear up something I heard through the journalist Sherman Skolnick. He is reporting that another story or book, I don’t remember exactly which, that Hunter S. Thompson was working on was about this gay prostitution ring in the White House and supposedly that was another touchy topic that he brought out, and the whole…

JONES: Had you heard that from Hunter?

PAUL WILLAM ROBERTS: Yeah, I had heard that quite a lot from Hunter. It goes back to Kissinger, I believe.

JONES: Wow.

Now that’s a big confirmation. Now for those who don’t know, We have Washington Times articles from 1989, you know—‘underage call boys in the White House’, and so this is serious. .. Hunter was working on that?

ROBERTS: Yeah, in fact Lyndon LaRouche published some stuff about that. And although, you know, a lot of his material was not that trustworthy, in this particular case there were a lot of sources cited and there was no lawsuit. And where there’s no lawsuit you can be almost guaranteed that it’s true.

--

In which case why has there never been a lawsuit against
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/02/280183.shtml">Cathy O'BrienCathy O'Brien? I know having read her books, she slanders many, many people (now on it's 13th printing).

Just a thought

[EFerrari]

17. That seems right to me.

There's really never just one question. I didn't know most of this before reading these threads.

[imaginary girl]

149. I've wondered if that might have been part of "Gannon's" job there ...

"The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media." --Former CIA Director William Colby ...

In the WH press corps, he was surrounded by (and part of) this elite group whose opinions and comments have a huge impact on how the public views the admin. What if he were to invite people out with him and then, say, odd things happened that they weren't expecting? And there just happened to be a tape recording or a camera around ... couldn't he then help to shape the media's response to *

[EFerrari]

152. Yes! His job description is "bait". I'm just trying to figure out

who wrote it.

Because there are factions in the government.

[hootinholler]

163. Got a link to the Colby statement?

That's one to take to Congress.

-Hoot

[OBrien]

8. jimmyjeff gotta a twin stashed away somewhere?

After reading post #126 about the "red cord" of Zarah and Pharez his twin...well who the hell knows.
For what it's worth, I absolutely believe the HS pictures are of JimmyJeff

[Dookus]

9. So do I...

they look very much like the same person to me, which demonstrates that Gannon could not be the Gosch boy.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

171. awww, LibinTexas and Faye...

So sorry. I'll try to respond with the same level of maturity. Doo-doo head.

[fooj]

178. Thanks for the giggle!!!

:hi: If we don't keep a healthy sense of humor going we'll never get through all of this...

[Dookus]

182. There's plenty to laugh about, Fooj

without resorting to childish personal attacks on people because they disagree with you.

Personally, I'm giggling like mad because the Gannon=Gosch "theory" is shot down by these pictures. Looks like I was right, they were wrong. Now THAT'S funny. I get attacked and scorned for trying to inject a little reason into the debate, and even when the evidence SHOWS I was right, they still rely on childish attacks.

[Catherine Vincent]

185. If we all agree that you were right, would you then move on?

How many times will you tell us that you saw no connection? There are still some that disagree with you. Deal with it. Sheesh!

[Dookus]

188. I'm as welcome to participate here

as anyone else. Deal with it.

[Catherine Vincent]

189. Of course you are.

First you accused us of linking Gannon being gay with pedophilia and now criticizing us of linking Gosch with Gannon. It didn't make us go away. So you'll just have to deal with us.

[Dookus]

191. I'm dealing just fine

thank you very much. I never once expressed the notion that you should shut up or go away, but it's been directed at me many times. Why is it so painful for you to be challenged?

Now, regarding the matter at hand.... wouldn't you agree that photographs of Guckert from the mid-70s as a High School senior rule out his also being a 12 year old in 1982?

[Catherine Vincent]

193. When I said move on, I meant move on from the subject not

shut up and go away. I would never suggest a poster to do so.

I am quite sure that the photos of guckert in high school is our guy Gannon ( my opinion). And it should rule out Gannon being Gosch but I am still open for other possibilities. I am not giving up on Gosch just yet.

[fooj]

197. Lighten up, would you? If we all agreed all of the time we'd be on the

KOOL-AID! What strikes me as quite humorous is your apparent need to portray yourself as a victim. IMHO-You can hold your own, Dookus! You know it. I know it. WE ALL KNOW IT! So...when I suggest we continue to maintain a healthy sense of humor that is exactly what I meant. NOTHING MORE. NOTHING LESS. As for injecting reason into the debate, please allow me to remind you of your recent comments...
"Personally, I'm giggling like mad because the Gannon=Gosch *theory* is shot down by these pictures. Looks like I was right, they were wrong. Now that's funny."

None of us have spent the amount of time and energy on these threads to expend wasted energy on "childish attacks"!!! It's called comic relief and a sense of humor. Quite frankly, I don't give a damn who is "wrong" or "right" here. My goal (as I'm sure is the goal of many others on these threads) is to search for the truth and expose any possible misconduct so that we can put an end to all of this horror and madness.

TRUTH IS OUR MOST POWERFUL WEAPON!

Peace!

[Dookus]

200. huh?

I know I'm holding my own just fine. I just think congratulating childish personal attacks is uncalled for. It's against the rules, and it's just downright disrespectful.

[fooj]

203. I am well aware of the rules. They apply to ALL OF US!

BTW- Thanking someone for a giggle is not CONGRATULATING attacks. You know better than that. You've read my message. With all due RESPECT...I've got work to do.

[Dookus]

206. of course the rules apply to all of us

I would never assert otherwise.

I'm glad you found the now-deleted attacks amusing.

[fooj]

211. I'm glad you're glad...

Now, since MY MESSAGES TO YOU HAVE NOT BEEN DELETED and I know that you've enjoyed reading them...I'll be moving right along!

[radfringe]

10. new toons

A guide to the white house press corps --> http://radfringe.tripod.com/id1.html

also check out The Hocus-Potus ---> http://radfringe.tripod.com/

feedback welcomed!!!

[EFerrari]

12. What a great cartoon!

I want to do one on "spreading freedom": shoveling depleted uranium and napalm. (Can you shovel napalm?! Maybe not.)

[Old and In the Way]

11. I think Gannon is Guckert

Those HS pics sealed it. I was amazed with the similarities in the overlays of Gannon/Goesch, but these HS pics are just too similar. Not saying that we know the real story of Gannon, but Goesh seems to be a dead end now that we've had the Guckert pics posted.

[Bethany Rockafella]

15. A dead end? Not necessarily.

We're not done with this cat yet. If you notice from the first thread, that is not what this was about (Gosch being Gannon). As far as I am concerned I have a split personality regarding Gannon. One day I will feel sorry for him and another day I wll rag on him 'til the sun sets.

[EFerrari]

20. Me, too. Exactly! Maybe we're the ones with the alters! lol

[understandinglife]

27. Not a dead end, at all. For one thing, I disagree with your assertion...

.....that the individual in the high-school photos matches several of the photos we have of "Gannon."

For another, I detect inconsistencies between some of the photos we have of "Gannon." Others have noted, we may have more than one "Gannon/Guckert."

And, if you scroll to comment #3 in this thread and look closely at the eyes of the person in the top left photo and compare to the person in the photo underneath Gosch Sr., you might notice that the eyes are different. Then go to the demopedia page and compare the "Gannon" in the overlay to the two images in comment #3 (one of which is also on the demopedia page). Pay particular attention to the shape of the left eye. Two of those three images are more alike, in my opinion, than the third (i.e., the top left one in comment #3).

But, beyond all this, the big issues remain, how did a person named both "Gannon" and "Guckert," with a side business as a commercial web-based pornographer, and, perhaps, prostitution gain repeated access to the West Wing, for more than two years. Then there's the matter of plagiarism, Plame, access to other classified information (four hour heads-up on invasion of Iraq), role in the defeat of Daschle.

And, we still have no one claiming to be family member, military buddy, school chums (he was class and school president, supposedly), fellow workers, DC friends, ......, no one.


Peace.

[Old and In the Way]

29. No doubt, there's much to uncover about Gannon/Guckert

and I think the web-prostitution angle needs further exploration. Given what I've seen of Gannon and his obvious alliegence to the Republican Party and this administration, I am more inclined to explore HamdenRice's line of questioning; that GG is a higher level GOP operative whose cover is a 'journalist'....blackmail definitely would be something that I could see Gannon involved in. But the Gosch angle doesn't hold much credence with me now that I've seen the HS pics. True, the photo comparisons are subjective evidence....but someone will need to show conclusive evidence to the contrary before I'd disbelieve that Gannon is Guckert.

[understandinglife]

32. I'm just gently urging you and others to take the photos we have...

....and consider the possibility that we have a "Gannon" who is "Guckert" AND a "Gannon" who is "Gosch." Two people.

No matter how it comes down, I think that, be it one Gannon or more than one Gannon, blackmail was the currency being used to gain access to the WH, and more.

Peace.

[EFerrari]

42. That D.C. socialite who is offering a cash reward for anyone

who has had contact with JimmyJeff -- anyone know is she's had movement on this?

I'm about ready to go ask on Craigslist but Craig has done some favors for us and I don't want to upset him or bring him under fire for any reason.

[understandinglife]

52. Yes, her name is Kelly Ann Collins and here's the link:

http://kellyanncollins.com/2005/03/reward-20000-for-jeff-gannon.html

Wonder if she's been reading these threads?

Peace.

[understandinglife]

56. By the way, the picture of "Gannon" on her site is the one...

....that is posted here in comment #3 (top left) that looks most like high-schooler Jim Guckert, but does not look like several of the other "Gannon" photos.

Those other photos are the ones that match, particularly eyes and chin, the photo of 12 y/o Gosch and the eyes of Gosch Sr.

Peace.

[EFerrari]

59. Thank you. What do you think about the renewed public contact

between JDG and the WH? And by that, I mean his posting one of their propaganda pieces to his site?

[understandinglife]

65. Perhaps a taunt; not of "us," but of "them." As you and others....

....have noted, it's not like he's likely to have a bunch of "Republicans" reading his site. I think his readership probably consists of:

1. investigative bloggers;
2. those whom he has all kinds of dirt -- fearful of when he pulls back the sheets.

Let's consider that he posted that item (as you've noted, not likely written by any of the "Gannon" persona) as a taunt. It's not a taunt to #1, because he's probably read all your posts and others and knows we're onto the scam.

So, it's likely a taunt to the WH, many of whom may well be in category #2. The WH hardly wants "Gannon" doing anything that links them to him -- they don't want a google search on Gannon and Bush returning a fresh off the White House press Bush position paper, but that's what will happen. "Gannon" is a truly naughty boy.

Of course, this all assumes that whomever is posting to that site is "Gannon/Guckert/?Gosch." I certainly don't know who is posting to that site. Does anyone know for sure?

Peace.

[EFerrari]

67. I see. "You have to pay attention to me now".

All I can say is, the main writer at the site is probably the same person who posted to FR under Jeff Gannon. Geeze, a zillion posts and that's all I can deduce.

And the site itself is low rent.

And there are are least two writers but this is cottage industry, not a staffed effort.

That's why I wanted to find the original. It would tell us something about it's source and about his position to the WH today. Did something change?

[Name removed]

181. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

61. I see what you mean about that photo.

His head is angled back and his hand is covering his chin. That position changes the outline of his face, rebalances it in a way.

In the photo that merh posted of Johnny, his head is angled forward and slightly to the side.

[troubleinwinter]

71. I made that post #3 photo comparison that mehr posted

I placed it on the last thread, but it was just before the thread locked.

The reason I used those two particular photos is that people were saying that the eyes were different. I felt this comparison showed Gannon's eyes without the squint of sun/bright lights.

Also, understandinglife asserts that there is no difference in a person's face at age 12, 15, 42, 57. This is not true. A 15 year-old's face is different from his face in adulthood... it's how our eye knows a child from an adult.

I just looked at a professional photo of my husband at age 14... his lips in the photo are a bit fuller (as a baby's are more round than an adult), and his features are larger in relation to the overall face, than those of an adult.

But the BONE STRUCTURE remains the same... my personal opinion as an artist using live human models tells me the underlying structure is the same.

I WISH we could find a forensic photo expert... one of those people who compares childrens' photos to older persons.

One crazy/nutzie idea..?... Howsabout someone gather up a selection of some of our best photos and take em over to the Graphics forum and ask if they will see what they can see?

[EFerrari]

76. That's not crazy. I don't know anyone in that group though.

It's funny, TIW, I draw, paint and sculpt and have zip training except practice. Your hands get some kind of muscular memory. I agree with you.

[understandinglife]

145. Careful.

This is a mis-statement:

"Also, understandinglife asserts that there is no difference in a person's face at age 12, 15, 42, 57."

I specifically represented only one fact, that photos of me at ages ranging from 15 to 19 ... to 57, do not reveal discernable differences in the structure of my lips or my eyes. One set of data. Not a generalization.

And, I explicitly stated that I was not refrencing 'baby' or early developmental stages, in response to your attempt to imply that I was in the previous exchange.

I use words very carefully. If you are going to ascribe something that I've said, quote it, exactly (as I just did, above, as a courtesy to you).

Thank you.

[zann725]

174. Speaking of his "fellow workers," reminds me of JJ's "we paint trucks" co.

(Guckert's company, that is.) I was reminded of it today as I watched Sen. Dorgan on the Senate floor on CSPAN-2...as he discussed the need to investigate Contractors in Iraq who regularly give huge stacks of cash as pay-off in alleged reconstruction deals. He gave an example of a Contractor who ran a Security company at an Iraqi airport...whose employees regularly stole American military vehicles at the airport, then RE-PAINTED them, and resold them back for a profit.

That reminded me of Jimmy Jeff's "we paint trucks" company...and made me wonder if something similar was going on there...wherever it was physically located. (Incorporated in Delaware, right? He owed $20K in taxes on it, right?)

[EFerrari]

14. You may be right.

And here we have people publishing articles (not only WM) who are insisting on the connection between Gorsh and Gannon.

What's that for? All I can think is someone wanted to embarrass the Bu$h Mafia by digging up the Franklin cover up. What are the other possibilities?

[Jose Diablo]

28. I think the wrinkle threads have been incredible in the research

there is a deep current of something disgusting going on in our country. It would have been amazing to find a lost child through research on the net, but sadly that didn't happen. Still it's good to know that DU took the time to dredge-up all the information.

I still don't understand why nobody has procecuted those responsible for Franklin. The CIA with its 'cold' war has done so much harm to our country and the bastards are still doing harm only now a 'new' enemy has been created.

Does anybody else realize our country has had a standing army since before WWII. We have been at war with somebody or another for 65 years. Thats 10 more years than I have been alive. I think most of these wars have been caused by the intellegence communitees around the world, especially ours.

This is bullshit.

[EFerrari]

37. It is bullshit. I used to wonder why Bu$hco hired Rice

a Sovietologist.

That was when I was just worried about him being stupid.

[hootinholler]

169. It hasn't been prosecuted because every time someone gets the goods,

They go bye bye.

-Hoot

[tanyev]

16. Are we convinced that Talon news JG

is the same as come-hither JG? Tightey-whitey and the pic where he has a little hair on the top of his head are the same guy, but I've always thought they looked different from WH press room JG. More coy, less serious. If two guys who looked similar both shaved their heads it might make them even harder to tell apart.

[EFerrari]

18. Well, someone wants us to think so. The guy resigned? n/t

[tanyev]

22. Ah, but if there are two men using the same identity,

it would be easier for White House JG to resign than to try and explain why they are intertwined, especially if one of them leads back to a pedophile sex ring.

[EFerrari]

25. Okay. But the thing that is bugging me the most right now is still

the question of timing. We were supposed to notice this guy, imo.

Also, lookit: he resigns, Talon disappears, no one in TX wants to know Eberle, this funny little FrontPage site goes up. Now, JDG is posting a WH article again. What's the game here?

[Bethany Rockafella]

21. It must be nice for a guy to look so differently in all his pictures.

[tanyev]

90. Yeah.

This is the photo I think looks different from the others.


Original caption:
This is one of two photos sources provided to the Blade of a man who appears to be James Guckert, who worked in the White House press corps as ‘Jeff Gannon.’ The sources claim Guckert attended a sex party for gay men in 1998. In the other photo, which the Blade is not publishing, the man who appears to be Guckert is embracing another man while exposing his penis.

http://www.washblade.com/2005/2-18/news/national/reporter.cfm

[bush_is_wacko]

103. This little tidbit from the article sheds a little light on the reporter

who asked bush what was going on with AMERICAN MEDIA during that bush/Putin press conference. I get the feeling American bloggers are not the only people looking into this story.

<<snip>>
“Journalists used to be ranked very high in terms of their ethical standing in public polls. This scandal is dangerous because journalism does serve an essential role in Democracy. Talon News is clearly an organization intent on spreading conservative ideas and they do it in a sloppy fashion,” Karr said. “The questions Gannon was asking were not about trying to get the truth but more about grandstanding and presenting a very partisan point of view.”

[nonny]

184. Red noses on smiling Gannon (post 90) and Gosch paperboy

[intheflow]

51. Gannon himself has confirmed his x-rated past

by owning up to having made some mistakes in the past. I mean, if it was you being interviewed on national television by Wolf Blitzer, and he mentioned you had a salacious past, wouldn't you blast him and clear your name? (I'm assuming you don't have a porno past, of course. :) ) I know I would. The fact that Gannon didn't deny it, combined with the fact that Eberle abandoned him and effectively shut down Talon News, proves that come-hither guy is Gannongate guy.

edited for typo

[EFerrari]

68. That's right. And in the radio interview, the interviewer

Pretty much put up a wall around the sex stuff and headed right into bashing the left and the "leftwing media". As if.

[Project_Willow]

24. A Plea for Investigation and Support

I am new to this forum, brought here by the recent re-exposure and discussion of the Franklin case. I am guessing that the Franklin information was new to some DU posters?
It looks to me also, from the photos that Gannon resembles Guckert more than any of the others. What I don't know is how a 47 year old can look so young, but that's another story.
If the Gannon case is no longer linked to Gosch, and so may mean that investigation into the child porn/prostitution network may be dropped, I want to make a request.
To those of you who are interested and have the time, there are credible sources with much to say on the issues of child trafficking, ritual-abuse torture, and government behavioral and medical experimentation with children.
A few web sites:
http://my.dmci.net/~casey/
http://www.morningcomequickly.com/
http://www.ritualabusetorture.org/
http://www.lynnsart.net/
http://www.naffoundation.org/
http://www.paperclipdolls.com/
We could really use your help and investigative powers!

[EFerrari]

26. Thanks for posting those links.

I think a couple of them appeared in earlier threads. Maybe we can check them out and locate them somewhere appropriate in Demopedia.

[NancyG]

31. Thought my first post would be to the KOEB

But these Wrinkle threads have kept me away from there, even KO himself, and everything else I'm supposed to be doing. Fascinating and intriguing.

I live in the 1100-person town that the Bohemian Grove is in. BTW a gay resort area. I have participated in rallies and marches against the Grove when in session. People here have worked there in various low-end jobs. When the big shots show up in town, lots of black Bravos. An acquantance lives in a home that was once a house of assignation for the Grove back in the early 1900's. That said, word would likely leak out if there was ritualist Satanic canabilism. More like ritual nude pissing-on-trees. Not to say it can't be true.

I used to live in Chicago and my memory of The Reader was a liberal weekly tabloid good for long articles getting back at City Hall or corporate shennanigans. Great for apartment listings. Sure there were gay escort ads, but it was a liberal rag. Doesn't sound like the pedophile suggestions in earlier Wrinkles.

Gannon/Guckert/Gosch? I'm leaning toward the HS picture being Gannon. The cleft in the chin was what did it for me. The lips were my biggest question.

[merh]

34. Welcome to DU!

We are honored to have you stop by our thread first, before the KOEB nightly fanfare!

Thank you for the input - I still can't get past the lips.

Again, Welcome to DU and enjoy yourself. Since you are headed to KOEB, I know you will. :loveya: floatie hearts for you and Keef! :loveya:

Be careful, this place is very addicting! :hi:

[EFerrari]

35. Why do they have to come and despoil our state?

Bumpersticker: Bush out of North America.

I have a lot of trouble reading graphic violence, being something of an empath. So, I don't have an informed opinion on that question.

Your information on the Chicago paper is interesting. Especially as I watch the SF Chron go righter every week.

I hope we're not cutting into KO's audience. I'm a big fan, too. :hi:

[NancyG]

41. Thanks

Chicago's Reader is a twin of the Bay Area Guardian.

I've been lurking since the MF Election.

KO :loveya: (my first floating hearts)

[EFerrari]

46. Forgive my wrinkled up manners. Welcome to Du! n/t

[EFerrari]

53. A Bay Guardian twin? I've friends there.

The SF Bay Guardian is the best paper around. Well, that settles the Chicago paper issue for me. Thank you, Nancy.

[DURHAM D]

36. Tell us more about the Grove - please, please. please. n/t

[NancyG]

62. The Bohemian Grove

There's a local paper called the Russian River Times (email: [e-mail]) that a year or two ago had a series on a study someone did on the Grove. Very long and very detailed over a few decades of information. I would contact the publisher Johanna Lynch at the above email and see if you can get back copies. We are a very liberal community and this paper is the very, very liberal one of two local Russian River papers. She would be very interested in what is going on here. You could have a dynamic conversation with her and maybe end up in an article.

The Bohemian Club in San Francisco and the Bohemian Grove in Monte Rio had a very good start. The purpose was to bring together captains of industry and politics with artists, performance and visual. And they still do. Members of the Greatful Dead/Dead are regular visitors. Not surprised that Hunter Thompson was there.

Harry Shearer (voice of many of Simpson characters and writer on La Show) wrote and directed a mocking comedy based on the Grove. When it showed at our little quonset hut theater, he came and talked to us after the the movie:
Teddy Bears' Picnic (2002)
Tagline: For fifty-one weeks a year, they run the country. For one week, they run amok.

Too much on the Grove. Don't want to distract from the Search.

[intheflow]

73. Interesting Bohemian Grove link.

From the sociology dept. at Sonoma State University. http://libweb.sonoma.edu/regional/faculty/phillips/bohemianindex.html

[NancyG]

130. This is the study

on the Bohemian Grove that was reprinted in series in our paper. Very long and of interest.

[KansDem]

89. If I may...

Bohemian Grove Fact Sheet
What activities take place at the grove? The grove is the site of a two week retreat every July (as well as other smaller get-togethers throughout the year). At these retreats, the members commune with nature in a truly original way. They drink heavily from morning through the night, bask in their freedom to urinate on the redwoods, and perform pagan rituals (including the "Cremation of Care", in which the members wearing red-hooded robes, cremate a coffin effigy of "Dull Care" at the base of a 40 foot owl altar). Some (20%) engage in homosexual activity (but few of them support gay rights or AIDS research). They watch (and participate in) plays and comedy shows in which women are portrayed by male actors. Although women are not allowed in the Grove, members often leave at night to enjoy the company of the many prostitutes who come from around the world for this event. Is any of this hard to believe? Employees of the Grove have said that no verbal description can accurately portray the bizarre behavior of the Grove's inhabitants.

list of speakers at Bohemian Grove
(How many PNACers can you find?)

[DURHAM D]

94. Thanks - speakers list very interesting. n/t

[BamaBecky]

105. D Durhan...question not related to the post.....

are you married to Carol and live in Panama City, Florida?

[trudyco]

33. My two bits ...

The HS pics look like the current GU-GA. The thicker lips I think is because in the current pic he is smirking/smiling more. The lips look more stretched out horizontally. As for age, like I said before if you look at the videos you will notice the area around the eyes are older than the rest of him - perfect forehead, no crows feet around the eyes - I'd guess plastic surgery or Botox. Plus pancake makeup?

Anamolies: Gosch has freckles. Gu-Ga has freckles on his body, interestingly not on his face (you'd think the place that gets the most sunshine would have the most freckles). Not sure about Guckert of Lake C HS. The thing about Guckert not appearing in the sophomore yearbook but a class officer in his Jr year is wierd. Nobody coming forward - I don't think most people know about the Gannon Bru-ha-ha. And if they did, who would they approach? Katie Couric? If the MSM doesn't want to cover it - well, you don't know if somebody came forward or not. Gorec(sp)just happens to be in several pics with Guckert happens to be a DUer? But nobody else? What are the chances of that. And he claims the guy was openly gay in HS and he was class officer??

If Guckert is who his drivers license says - then I'd say he's CIA or something similar. That's how he got into gay porn. That's how the SS can claim he passes security muster in their "normal" procedures. That's why he had blue collar kind of jobs considering he had a teaching certificate (painting cars sounds like a CIA cover job, easily transferable). CIA involved in gay porn is still a story, so is how he got into the Whitehouse. AND Eberle, his Texas news connection, just happened to be one of the best eyewitnesses to the suspicious Pentagon attack. Ned (right name?) the guy who got beheaded and may have gotten airline tickets for Massoui also from the same area.

Lots of wierdness going on. Is there a local paper in West Chester?

[merh]

38. Young JDG with a smirk - still more lips!

[trudyco]

44. How do you look at the pic? Is it one already posted? -nt

[merh]

47. oops, forgot the h in http!

my bad, it should be visible now! :silly:

[trudyco]

57. Thanks Merh, but I open my mouth like in his pic and it is even

less horizontal than the first pic. I don't see how you think this establishes his lips are fatter. Plus, the pic is so far away - but hey, I'm no expert.

[merh]

108. But that's the point, his mouth is not open. That is the fullness

of his lips. (imho) :shrug:

[troubleinwinter]

80. I see his mouth as open... no upper lip...???

But could be either open or not. Just my impression.

[merh]

102. His mouth isn't open, his lips (top and bottom) are that full.

His smirk is full lipped, not a thin top lip. :shrug:

[troubleinwinter]

109. I just don't see it that way, mehr

I see open mouth (& teeth), thin upper lip. But the photos are difficult to decipher with complete confidence.

[merh]

138. You could be right, but as you say, with this photo it is hard to

tell, especially enlarged. I mean in this photo the young master guckert looks one eyed, the other one looks deformed. :silly:


(btw - check out the link in my sig line!)

[Catherine Vincent]

146. Master?

He probably got called that in his bulldogging days.:-)

[bush_is_wacko]

66. I had Pippy Longstocking style freckles as a kid and they are almost

completely gone now. I never used sunscreen back then and spent all day darkening them up in the sunshine. As an adult I use sunscreen and they have faded a whole bunch. What isn't gone can be easily covered up by light makeup. My daughter has those same freckles I had and I keep telling her they will go away if she takes care of her skin. Those of us that had them as kids HATE them!

[intheflow]

39. mordarlar, picking up on a question you asked last thread...

In Post 207 you asked what I thought about the "wepainttrucks" photo of a guy named Guckert who had a 1970 driver's license.

The license information came from SusanG at propagannon, but I understand she doesn't document her sources, so I can't vouch for the reliability of what she says. :shrug:

I also don't think that picture looks like Gannon--too fat, too short. Lots of guys shave their heads.

The photo is from a company called Karmak, which is in West Chester. Yes, someone named JD Guckert managed that company, but we don't know if that person was named James or Jeff or Joe or even Jane. And I can't find it, but remember reading in one of these threads that Guckert was a fairly common name in that area. So it is possible it's another, completely unrelated JD Guckert.

Has anyone physically connected wepainttrucks.com to Karmak, or is that an assumption we're making? Karmak's web site is karmakinc.com. Did it used to be wepainttrucks.com? You'd think if our boy was the same guy that had been the manager, he'd know the company had changed web site addresses. But then, as webmaster you'd think he'd know wepainttrucks.com wasn't an active truck painting business link.

Gannon having truck painting in his past (assuming that's even true) and a truck painting company in the town he went to college in does not necessarily equate to he painted trucks for that company. It's possible, sure, but considering how much we don't know about his past, he could have painted trucks anywhere. :shrug:

Once again, all speculation on my part. *tired wry smile*

[understandinglife]

49. I've called. Get a vmail from someone named Steve Carlyle. Didn't...

....leave a message.

The details on Karmak are in gannongate thread 11:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3231526

See comment # 26, and others. You can also check gannongate thread 5 for some other comments about Karmak.

Peace.

[intheflow]

69. There no hard data connecting Guckert to Karmak or the 1970 license.

Wrinkles 11 post 26 references a posting at propagannon that references our research here at DU:

http://www.propagannon.com/node/1118
Karmak Inc. Do we have this yet?

I found this tip posted by someone on DU dont know if we have it yet

KARMAK INC 511 S Bolmar St West Chester PA 19382-4934 Cobntact J D Guckert Manager County Chester Philadelphia, PA-NJ 810-918-3752

Lines of Business Truck Bodies-Repairing Automotive Body & Interior Repair

ad size regular
Year appeared 2000
Guckert had wepainttrucks.com

By Chewy at 03/03/2005 - 9:06am

The italics are what rosebud57 wrote in post #48 in Wrinkles 5, and appears to be a connection she leapt to in that post.

Later in the propagannon thread SusanG wrote

We actually have this information
Not posted ... but behind the scenes.

One of the problems is this Guckert was born in 1970; ours in 1957. He may be a relative, but if you folks want to continue investigating, go ahead. I think there may be a TIE but I'm not convinced that they're the same person with the 13-year age difference.

I got a tip off list that had THIS Guckert's driver's license info, with a definite 1970 birthdate.

One of the things I've been wondering is if OUR Guckert is also using a relative's or someone else's SSN for some things ... perhaps this person's.

(This is NOT an invitation to post anyone's SSN here.)

By SusanG at Thu, 03/03/2005 - 12:29pm

Then, on page 2 of the propagannon thread, SusanG posts this comment:

For what it's worth ...
I'm still waiting to have the 1970 birthdate reconfirmed. I now think it's bad. I think this IS our Guckert at Karmak.

And I've thought since the beginning that he must have another SSN he's working under, and I agree that it may have to do with the tax lien in Delaware and not necessarily anything to do with Talon News or GOPUSA.

I also agree with intranets, that there is a real possibility he's doing a "Jeff" Guckert for SSN ... a kind of gradual change in identity that is proving very confusing. The one problem with this is that I have about 40 solid pages of Jeff Guckerts located in the northeast (Guckert is not as uncommon a name as people seem to think, especially in Delaware and Pennsylvania). I'm having a few checked out at a time that seem the likliest possibilities.

I don't think we need shoes on the ground at Karmak necessarily. We might want to make a few phone calls -- eventually, when we're rock solid certain this IS our Guckert -- and if we can't get information that way (from O'Rourke and the other people at Karmak), then we might want to consider on-the-ground work.

I don't think we necessarily need $$ for this ... I'm sure out of the 600-plus of us, there is someone within an hour of the area who'd be willing to go check it out and talk to people.

By SusanG at Sat, 03/05/2005 - 10:37am

And just today she posted this on the same page:

Still haven't heard back on birthdate
But I'm thinking the time has come to make some phone calls to Karmak and see if it's our Gukert, or make an in-person visit.

Anyone care to volunteer?

By SusanG at Wed, 03/09/2005 - 4:20pm


SO, to recap: there is no hard data connecting wepainttrucks.com to karmakinc.com, and the 1970 license date is probably bogus.

[madhat]

72. should we be posting propagannon stuff here?

Just asking....(security)

[EFerrari]

74. Please be a little more plain for the disinformed :) n/t

[intheflow]

82. I would hardly call you disinformed, sfexpat!

But simply:

The tip about the age discrepancy that sojourner posted in Wrinkles 11 (post #26)

came from a post at propagannon referencing rosebud57's post on Wrinkles 5 (post #48) in which rosebud57 speculated a connection between Guckert's truck painting past with a truck painting company that happened to be in the town where Guckert went to college.

sojourner's tip (W11, #26) referenced a response by SusanG at propagannon to the propagannon post about rosebud57's Wrinkles post.

SusanG said she had an anonymous tip that the JD Guckert at Karmak was our Guckert and he had a 1970 license.

The propagannon thread goes on for two pages.

On page 2, SusanG posted twice that she didn't trust the 1970 date anymore.

Please don't make me do the hypertext again! :scared:
LOL Does that help clear it up?

[EFerrari]

86. I'm so sorry! No, don't do that!

I get that Susan doesn't believe the age thing, but where does security come into the matter?

[intheflow]

91. D'oh!

I thought that post was replying to me.



But I didn't get the security problem, either. :shrug:

[intheflow]

75. Why? What would be the security problem?

We've been referencing it right and left, and as far as I know anyone can join and view and post.

[mordarlar]

166. They post ours.

[understandinglife]

104. Yes. Was aware of all that before I tried to speak with a person at...

....Karmak.

I was going to ask to speak to Mr Guckert. If he answered I was going to ask him if he was familiar with the White House reporter, Jeff Gannon, who also uses the name Guckert. Presume if the conversation continued from that point, then a variety of topics might be covered.

But, all I've gotten is vmail and I'm not leaving call back messages.

Thanks for posting the excellent summary.

Peace.

[intheflow]

122. A poster at propagannon said

Karmak wasn't listed in current business listing or on the BBB of the area. So you may just be reaching a voice mail box that's on auto-pilot, no one really "there" to take the call. Seems weird to call a business and get an answering machine for an individual, anyway. The phone could have gone from business to private line if the company went under.

If so, poor Steve Carlyle! Whoever he is he must be getting lots of calls! I used to get calls all the time when I got my current phone number for a company that had my phone number before me. They were just annoying, but I bet this guy gets all kinds of nasty porno-referencing calls.

[understandinglife]

136. Yes, I indicated in my comments in thread #11, after I made the ...

...first call, that I thought it interesting that a business would not have someone answering the phone during normal business hours. The pattern continues. Will be interesting if anyone ever answers at that number.

Peace.

[mordarlar]

164. I was making no connection between Karmak and wepaintrucks.

i just find it curious that a man with a different birthdate and photo and a similar name happened to be in the same town. And if the man in particular is JD Guckert it is AMAZING to me that he would look even that similar considering all the other similarities.

Then there is the facts that we have a picture of a boy and a man which are UNCANNILY similar and that the JD GUCKERT in the Karmak photo just happens to have this kids birth year. And the background claims of Gannon only ADD more similarities to a situation that already has to many to be believed.

Something is not right.

[burn the bush]

173. yes, we have called and get an answering machine belonging to a

Steve Carlyle, I think it was. No message was left.

[New Earth]

50. so are these pics to lead us to believe that Gannon is NOT Gosch?

wtf is going on?

[BamaBecky]

54. I've been trying to figure that out too....so much to read...so little

time

[trudyco]

60. The pictures, for most people, at least don't rule out that he is

in fact the older Guckert rather than the younger Gosch.

Of course, there is still the story of how he ended up a gay prostitute and then in the WhiteHouse. And why the MSM isn't jumping all over this with Slick Willy type glee.

Or maybe that was the point of the exposure. To let us know just how in control Bush is with the media ???

[EFerrari]

64. My suspicion is that the exposure was to show that Bu$hCo

*isn't* in charge of the media.

Or, that there's a fight going on in the Family?

And, because I don't know much about this, I've been thinking for a couple of days now that the intelligence community is telling the WH people to back off.

If you reread that, you'll see there isn't a single fact there. :eyes:

[troubleinwinter]

77. Different folks have different opinions, faye

Mine is that Gannon IS high school Guckert.

[EFerrari]

70. Okay, here's another question that speaks to Gannon but not to Johnny

If you've read his site, he's packaging himself as the "voice of the new media". And he's very critical of the "old media" for all the usual reasons. The "leftwing" lies.

But, he's really leaning on this, and that seems wierd to me. Most RW commentators do this but only up to a point. Because they know who owns the media, who cuts their check.

Is this possibly evidence that JDG is not all that concerned with his career in journalism?

[troubleinwinter]

78. "career in jounalism"??

I doubt that even he thinks that he could carry that off for any length of time.

When he "writes his book", he will have a ghost writer! He cannot write fer shit.

[EFerrari]

81. Exactly.

But, remember, he had a radio show. And he's written "500" articles for the respected Talon news.

My take is, if this guy wanted to parley those dubious credits into a JOB in the media, he wouldn't be so cavalier about lashing out at the "OLD MEDIA" particularly since the Old Media is conservative and Republican.

So, this also speaks to his steadfastness as a conservative.

Oh dear. (Tries to stop head spinning.)

[intheflow]

85. Yes, the "old media" is conservative, but

even the most powerful old rich white media guys, Fox, portray themselves as outsiders from the "liberal media." I think he's just playing a new version of the insider's outsider game.

And head spins are like bed spins--just go with them until you pass out or throw up. Both endings ultimately make you feel better! :crazy:

[EFerrari]

88. You may be right, same song, different verse

but there's something in the tone of what he says that's pinging me. If he were bigger, he could affect the bottom line of the corporations that own the media. He's not just saying there is bias, he's saying these guys are obsolete!

They usually don't pan each other?

[intheflow]

92. I'll bet the early radio announcers said the same thing to newspapers.

"Oh, you newspaper men are so passe! Make way for the 23-skidoo sensation, radio!"

"Man, you radio guys are so unhip! Make way for the new hepcat, television!"

"Dude, television is, like, so 20th century! Make way for the new media, the Internet!"

Something like that, maybe?

[EFerrari]

97. Okay. I do get that. But the fact that he's running a FrontPage

website leads me to believe that he's really not all that into being a media guy. And doesn't really care much about the consequences of his remarks in that direction (as in, doesn't care if Fox or someone gets upset).

It's a front, is what I feel. Am not saying it well. Try again:

It's one thing to say the media has a left wing bias. It's quite another to say that it is obsolete.

Especially when you probably can't write your way out of a paper bag. I think he's developing a trademark but also, one he won't be using for very long. :shrug:

[troubleinwinter]

95. It would be very interesting to hear a couple of his radio shows.

Listen to how he talks... not totally scripted.

[EFerrari]

98. Yeah. Or even, listen to the script.

He's always seemed a little off to me, as in "off message" when compared to most RW talkingheads. Rifts and splits in the ideology and in the voicing and in the presentation. CF Frist?

[nonny]

79. Photos -- High School James Guckert and Underpants Jeff

On the left is High School James Guckert. Background removed so as not to be distracting. Some of the long hair removed too. Rotated to line up with 2nd photo.

On the right is Underpants Jeff. Background removed, rotated and given a pair of James' glasses.

Even though the pictures are facing about the same angle -- I could not get the whole face to match up. The left eye did real good.......
but not the rest. Could be because they are not the same pose. ???
This may work better with more effort.

[EFerrari]

84. Idea: nonny, you're a genius. Can you change the direction of

the glance in the teen's pic? All my PS are on a slow machine that I rarely use. But, what about messing with the pupils, to redirect to the same angle that Underpants' eye are in?

I can't believe I just wrote that. lol

[nonny]

100. Like those glasses? :-)

Its not just the pupil that is "off" for true alignment, H.S. James is sitting up straight, head tilted slightly back, chin forward. Also, holding his eyes open so that he doesn't blink, the eyebrows raise slightly.
Mr. Underpants is slouching with his chin tucked down by his chest, looking out of the corner of his eye with that flirtatious look.
In my photoshopping, I am trying not to alter -- anything that matters. I want the pictures to be what they are.

I welcome your suggestions on how better to compare these pictures, or better yet, to suggest 2 pictures that deserve closer comparison.

[EFerrari]

111. Great glasses : )

Yes, I thought about altering/doctoring after I posted. We don't want to create an image that will come back and bite, right?

The two that merh posted together are astonishing.

Wish I was more expert. It's the angle of the head overall that -- as you know-- determines where the light hits and what it will suppress or highlight.

[Andy_Stephenson]

156. You owe me a new

Keyboard...I just snorted OJ all over this one. :hi:

[intheflow]

114. nonny, you are amazing!

Thank you so much for this work! :toast:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

83. Did anybody see these pictures of Gosch and Gannon?

http://www.rense.com/general63/hey.htm

[intheflow]

87. Sure, they came from our research

on earlier threads. Every single one of them.

[EFerrari]

93. I want this to move and would like suggestions.

troubleinwinter suggests we put the photos together and ask the Graphics group. (I suspect nonny is working right now so don't want to make yet another demand.) This seems like a good idea. Get some fresh and trained eyes on the subject.

I want to find the original of the "article" posted today to the JG site. Because there is one, somewhere. Finding it would tell us something about his relationship to the Cabal today.

On edit: Forgot this one. I'd like to mail KO the photographic evidence. Not to try to prove the G/G connection, that won't sell. But to show how JDG has completely distablized our trust in the media, in itself, not a small goal.

Anyone else?

[troubleinwinter]

101. Yeah! Mordalar went and dug up Guckert HS photos..

NOTTTTT the MSM!!!

This work is real research, not speculation, conspiracy theory and tinfoil. Actual physical groundwork research.

Gannon claims to be Guckert, so we went and checked it out.

MSM has not. We still need to know about his mystery years 1980-2000.

Where the fuck are the professional journalists? Are they checking when he was in the military? What was he doing there? Was this prostitute and pornography vendor a public school teacher as he claims?

WTF?

Send this to KO!

[fooj]

106. Excellent point! Thanks for your professional assessment earlier...

peace!

[EFerrari]

121. I've written to KO before and gotten a response.

If someone emails me the pics we should use, I'd be okay with writing a measured note to him.

/typo

[EFerrari]

107. Comic relief: This cat is probably not Jeff Gannon

&tnef=&YY=37345&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b

Bella lived in my sweater for about four days when she was a very ill little runt. And sends her best regards. She's a little gargoyle but I'd rather look at her than youknowwho.

[New Earth]

110. i think you need to fix your link

that takes me to an 'expired' yahoo page.

[EFerrari]

112. Sorry. I'll try to do that now. Hmm. works for me.

What am I doing wrong?

[troubleinwinter]

113. Are you sending us secret messages?

[EFerrari]

115. Lol. Can you see it? I gather there is no way for me to just copy it

and paste it into a post, but have to post a link?

[troubleinwinter]

120. Ya hafta get the pic up online, then post the URL

OR! Ya can email it to me & I'll post it! I wanna see the kitty!

[EFerrari]

126. She's a very ugly unsexy no underpants kinda cat.

If this doesn't work, I'll do laps.
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ourfamilyroom/vwp?.dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=Probably+not+JDG.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ourfamilyroom/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26.src=gr%26.view=t

[troubleinwinter]

143. Getcher damned runnin shoes on.

Nekkid kitties is the best kind.

[thjay]

116. Here's a comparison

I sized all the pictures so the eyes to mouth relationship is the same. You can see in the recent pictures the length between his lower lip and the bottom of his chin his longer. Maybe this is an age thing. The two pictures of current JG are for sure the same person. His features line up perfectly. I'm still not sure about the high school guckert picts.

The blue lines are so you can see how the facial features relate to each other from picture to picture.

[EFerrari]

118. Could you take out the #2 Gurkert and use Johnny instead? nt

[understandinglife]

142. As to 'the current JG', if you add the photo at the ...

...top left in comment #3 (or, better yet, get it from Kelly Ann Collins site):

http://kellyanncollins.com/2005/03/reward-20000-for-jeff-gannon.html

And, if you add the photo of Johnny Gosch, in the following order:

Three high school photos of J Guckert, then the photo of Gannon from Kelly Ann's site, then either of the two photos of Gannon you have posted, and then the Johnny Gosch photo, you may perceive three things:

1. The two Gannons, Kelly Ann's and the one you've already posted, are different;

2. "Kelly Ann's Gannon" is very much like J Guckert high school class leader;

3. The other Gannon is remarkably similar to Johnny Gosch, as nonny has already demonstrated (and, in the eyes, remarkably similar to Johnny Gosch's father).

Peace.

[thjay]

150. I still say current JG all look the same

When I lay the images on top of each other the features line up perfectly in all three pictures of current JG.

[understandinglife]

175. Thank you for doing this...

....however, I disagree.

From, left to right, let's number the order of the images in your post as images 1 through 7.

Now, order them 2, 3, 1, 6, 4, 5, 7.

You now have three James Guckert images, high school age and two Guckert/Gannon images adult age.

You then have a different (compared to images 6 and 4) adult Guckert/Gannon next to Johnny Gosch.

In the order proposed, above, I am speculating that images 5 & 7 are of one person. And, images 2, 3, 1, 6 and 4 are of another person.

You could then go to the gannongate wrinkles demopedia page and align the image nonny used in her analysis with images 5 & 7, and I think that would strengthen the speculation that we have two "Gannons," not one.

Peace.

[Catherine Vincent]

117. So...

Has anyone sent the high school pics to Gannon? Should I send them to him and ask "is this you"? And should I prepare for the FBI to visit my front door?

[EFerrari]

119. I've been really tempted. But it can be construed as harrassment.

We don't want to hand anyone that stick?

[troubleinwinter]

123. I wouldn't think it could be construed

as harassment to respond to his public website email.

But I'm certain it would be a waste of time. He will not respond, unless to tell you to "Buy the book!"

[intheflow]

127. I could be construed as stalking, imo.

We tracked down photos of him in high school to prove/disprove his involvement in some CIA pedopheilia ring and then email them to him and ask him if they are him.

If someone did that to me, I'd consider that stalking and harassment, yes.

Now if DU had a big money pot to spend on a crack team of 30 lawyers, I'd say yes. But I wouldn't want to do anything that might endanger DU. :scared:

[EFerrari]

128. Yes, it couldn't be prosecuted but that wouldn't stop him from using it?

And I'm not sure, TIW, if he wouldn't respond. Not at all sure.

[burn the bush]

183. I'm pretty sure he already knows about the Gosch connection.

I thought he mentioned it somewhere actually. Not by name but complaining about people making some kind of accusations about his past.

I wouldn't think that sending those pics would be harassment at all. Now if you called his house 20 times a day, filled up his email with repeated questions or whatever, then that would be harassment.

saying that it is being speculated and you thought you would ask, does not seem at all like harassment. He's a public figure in the news.

[EFerrari]

132. This is scary. I just heard Joe Scarborough say "old media"

Anyone picking up on this catch phrase?

(Changing the channel immediately!)

[B Calm]

133. Isn't male prostitution illegal? When is this guy going to be arrested?

[Catherine Vincent]

135. Yes it is. But he wasn't caught in the act.

[hootinholler]

162. Hmmm, in the district,

Prostitution is illegal for all involved.

-Hoot

[bluestocking_lib]

139. it just keeps going and going . . .

I've been following this post since day 1, and it just keeps growing and growing - gosh I am SO behind. I haven't even had time to pipe in, since I'm days behind. Keep this up, its enthralling!

[EFerrari]

151. Hey, there, welcome to DU!

Shortcut: Follow the link on the OP to the Wrinkles page in Demopedia.

:hi:

[imaginary girl]

153. Is it possible ...

... That Guckert became CIA (or a military equivalent) when going into the military after college (in through fraternity connection?)

AND THEN Gosch was kidnapped due to his resemblance to Guckert? The age diff might be about right in that case ...

Guckert born 57
Gosch born 70
Guckert 25 in 82, when Gosch was kidnapped

I know Noreen hinted at the fact (in her book) that Gosch was kidnapped due to his having "certain qualities" they were looking for. And a natural resemblance can be enhanced.

[understandinglife]

155. Not unreasonable (nt)

[Andy_Stephenson]

158. Bingo!!!

that is what has been bothering me!

I remember now why...and it was that very statemnet that she made.

About him having certain qualities.

[Catherine Vincent]

161. So would that mean that Gosch is still alive somewhere

and the naked pics are of Gosch and not Gannon? Everyone was saying the naked pictures are of a younger Gannon when they are in fact pics of a younger guy which would be Gosch and not Gannon?

edit: No wait, I forgot that Gosch escaped from his captors, so those pics can't be of Gosch. I'm so confused.

[burn the bush]

176. Although he did escape, that would not exclude him from later returning

to this line of work. He's accepted there. He's probably too fucked up mentally to do other work successfully. I would think that many of them stay attached to the "circle" once they are freed.

However, that does not mean that I think the porn picture is of Gosch. I think we may have connected to the child porn ring, but not necessarily Gosch.

[mordarlar]

172. Andy do you mind if i PM you? I want to ask something.

[mordarlar]

170. Exactly! Been stewing this for a LONG time.

The dating for all of it are DEAD ON.

[Catherine Vincent]

154. heehee! get a load of this funny!

[jdj]

160. the question for March 7 is a riot.

"Has the White House had any conversations with or given any directions to United Nations Ambassador-designate John Bolton to demand a full accounting of the Oil-for-food program and an investigation into the sexual misconduct of UN peacekeepers in the Congo and elsewhere?"

March 7, 2005

from jeffgannon.com

sure they are gonna let him on there to ask this.. righttt.

[nonny]

157. Photos -- Gannon at desk w/ watch progressed to HS James Guckert

Gannon at desk w/watch is looking straight forward, chin up.
H.S. James guckert is on a slight angle, but still looking forward, chin up. I only used HS James face minus the hair.








Opacity is 100%, 80, 60, 40, 20, 0

[EFerrari]

159. Just amazing, nonny.

I've got to run out to a meeting.

But, there has been a suggestion that KO get some photographic evidence of Mr. Gannon's past that shows how much work the public has to do anymore because the media has been - ah - somewhat discredited.

What would you send? Thanks again. I'll try and read a bit later.

B.

[nonny]

165. I'd say wait for more study on all of these photos

We only got them last night!

[troubleinwinter]

168. Send some untouched ones to Graphics forum & let em see

[EFerrari]

207. Good call. Gosh, I get impatient sometimes. And that's when

you get into trouble when researching.

Thanks for all your work. It's just amazing. :)

[trudyco]

180. Is that a mole on youngest Guckert on RHS or a zit?

Why isn't it in the other HS pics? Do most men have such defined adam's apples? That seems consistently in all the pics I've seen, but then I don't usually stare at men's adams apple so maybe its nothing.

[troubleinwinter]

167. Good work nonny! Notice

a little aspect of the left corner of his mouth in some pictures? Sure shows in these two.

[burn the bush]

179. I asked on the last thread but it was probably locked before you saw it

but can you morph 2 people that you know are not the same person, just to see if the morphing process can make any two people appear to morph or if there is a great difference.

[nonny]

187. I don't know how to morph ---

I understand that there are morphing computer programs that do that. I don't have one. I don't believe that these programs could do age progression without an artist "behind the wheel".

I try to NOT alter the features of either picture. Just line one up on top of the other and then change the transparency of the top picture.

[The_Mule]

192. Exactly - a control is needed.

In all of the comparisons of photos, there should be a control photograph of someone known not to be related to any people in other photographs. An experimental comparison makes no sense without relating it to a control comparison.

[Catherine Vincent]

177. Remember a few theads back on the Iowa thread I posted a website

for Iowa rivals? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=152x1273 On that website were a few Iowa folks discussing the Gosch/Guckert connection. There were about 10-12 messages and most lived on the same block as Johnny Gosch. Well I went back to check for new messages and this is what it has now:

http://iowa.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=811&tid=49388948&sid=&style=2

"This message is no longer in our database." Now why did they delete those messages? It was in the off topic section. I scanned the website for other off topic threads, I found one where a guy was inquiring about other guys spooning their wives. That one and a few other silly topics are still there. Tin foil hat time?

[imaginary girl]

190. That's very interesting cat_girl. Thanks for following up

Did anybody log on and ask them questions? I suppose they could have thought it was bringing/would bring unwanted traffic, but that's a big leap of an explanation ...

[understandinglife]

199. Just to confirm. When you posted the link, cat_girl25, I went to the ...

...site and read those messages, including the one from someone who claimed to live a block away from Johnny Gosch (you can check because I posted a comment about that coincidence in the context of wondering if a "Guckert" might have lived in the 'neighborhood').

It is quite odd that those comments would now be deleted (I just checked to be sure and, yeap, their gone).

Peace.

[imaginary girl]

186. Another possibility

Okay, the cloning experiment was a joke, but I am trying to give my mind some "play" in order to come up with possible scenarios.

Note to those who want to flame me for lack of evidence: This is just speculation. No facts involved. No conclusions drawn. Speculation in action ... my experience is that brainstorming sessions can lead somewhere even if they start nowhere only if you're willing to entertain -- then, perhaps eliminate -- possibilities. And to allow the ideas to build ...

Here's one to start us off:

When Gosch is given a new identity, two new yearbooks are produced which include pics of him as a young'un. Would explain why he wasn't there soph year but came up with a vengeance the next. Biggest problem is that there's a chance the locals would notice. But this would explain why nobody has claimed to know him (except Grecko). Same pattern in college, where one professor has stepped forward to claim him. Frat seems to know him only 2001+

Anyone else have another?

[understandinglife]

194. Out-of-no-where, Jr class Pres.; student body Pres. Then, ...

...someone with the 'same name' supposedly attends a less than top-tier college, for which we have no records, until someone by the name of Guckert appears in a photo at a bar in the TKE frat house in, what, 2001 or 2002.

Where's this person's family, friends, school chums, ..... ?

Does not compute.

Peace.

[imaginary girl]

195. Agreed. By the way, one thing I'd like to point out about that photo

is that there's no intrinsic evidence that it is the frat or 2001. Those are just the values assigned to it by the website it's on. Just a formality of distinction I'm sure you're already aware of, UL.

[understandinglife]

196. Roger that. I was being overly generous ...

...toward those who posted it as factual -- where and when. Just as I wonder what photos we might find, or not, in a high school year book in the possession of one of "Jim Guckert's" high school classmates.

In other words, until we have a bunch of folk, starting with Family, of "Jim Guckert" providing all kinds of information, I will remain skeptical that he exists.

Once we get that detail solid, then we can move to what has "Jim Guckert" been doing since he left high school -- corroborated by many different individuals who knew/know him along that path to the present.

Peace.

[imaginary girl]

198. Any ideas on how we go about doing that? n/t

[understandinglife]

202. For starters, someone could try to contact...

...those folk listed in the pictures that mordarlar posted in thread # 14, comments # 136 and 181:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3240504#3243176

Whomever that person is, they should be a bona-fide investigative journalist, i.e., just having a bunch of folk calling those individuals would be, at a minimum, harassment.

I think, with what has been accomplished in these threads, a solid case can be made to any of several trusted journalists to pursue the leads. I think Andy has had such discussions and even mentioned the name of one journalist, in a previous thread, with whom he has been communicating.

I also think it likely that, besides "Gannon" himself(selves), more than one journalist has been following these threads and should have been doing lots of L/N searches and making lots of phone calls and visits.

Peace.

[fooj]

205. Ya think? LOL!!!

[fooj]

201. Thanks for repeating the mantra chant! Details...details...

Earlier I asked Mordarlar if we could access the 9th and 10th grade yearbooks. Guess what, folks? M. couldn't FIND mention or a PICTURE of our dear Mr. Guckwhatever in what would have been his Sophomore Year!


Where did this guy come from? As a high school teacher it has been my experience that Class Officers are generally the popular and accepted kids...even more so with upper-classmen! The elections are held at the END OF THE SCHOOL YEAR for the following year in most cases. So..what we've got here is a young man who pops up and is suddenly ELECTED Jr. Class President? How did THAT happen?

Peace!

[understandinglife]

204. Yes, in_deed, how did that happen? Press on. (nt)

Peace.

[mordarlar]

208. You know what is funny about that? I started on the Junior year.

As i went through the senior year i was shocked at how involved this guy was. I kept thinking about the lack of comments from people in his past. I SERIOUSLY thought i might find him on the Homecoming page.

Greco was also VERY involved. They were in at least two groups together.

When i looked over the Sophomore book and did not see Guckert in the class photos i was SHOCKED. I TOTALLY AGREE that it is almost unbelievable that someone could be that involved at a new school. This is why my hesitance to 100% confirm he was not in that book. It just does not fit.

Greco was very visible in the sophomore book though. Odd stuff.

Edited to add the 9th grade book was not available to confirm if he was a student there that year.

[EFerrari]

210. Gulp. What thread was Greco's mail on? #7 or 8? n/t

[EFerrari]

209. I'm on info overload tonight, and thank you guys for having actual

ideas and opinions. lol

Still struggling to determine how the WH post to the site today affects his status. understandinglife is most likely right, it is a taunt. I'd still like to find the origin of the post, for purposes of documentation. Given that tracking down the original authors of his stuff is now a net passtime, I'm sure it will turn up.

Let's send some good thoughts over to Andy.

[Moderator]

212. Continue here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3249598