Strange news from my brother last night...Navy issues

[Not_Giving_Up]

My brother is currently a commissioned officer in the Navy, fresh off of his first deployment. He called me last night to tell me that he has been recommended for an honorable discharge. Something is fishy here, because he's supposed to owe them six years, and he's only been active for a little over one. He says it's no big deal, they have plenty of people. I pointed out that while the Navy and Air Force have waiting lists, the Army and Marines are not meeting recruiting goals. He told me that there is a "Blue to Green" prgram, where people in the Navy are being encouraged to go Army, but from what he knows about it, this is an option, not something that's forced off on people. I suggested that maybe they'll discharge him, only to bring him into the Army later in a back door draft. He doesn't think a back door draft exists, and doesn't think that the draft will be reinstated.

I'm really worried that my "beleive everything I'm told" brother (raised by fundies and bought it all) is abut to get screwed. They paid for his four year degree, plus he went through nuclear training and sub school, for which he was told a year was added on for each. Technically, he still owes them five years, so WTF?

[BlueEyedSon]

1. I would be skeptical, too.

[Warpy]

2. Tell him NOT TO ACCEPT THAT DISCHARGE!

His life depends upon it.

Staying in the Navy will keep him alive, for now, unless Stupid gets us into a world war.

Accepting that discharge is a ticket into the infantry. I think you're absolutely right about that.

You can NOT trust this bunch.

[Not_Giving_Up]

9. The way he made it sound

he doesn't have a choice. He said it will be about two months before he finds out for sure, but that it's up to an Admiral now.

[bluestocking_lib]

45. I would be VERY skeptical

the whole thing just sounds very sketchy

[Spinzonner]

3. Aren't they retiring subs and scaling back the fleet ?

Probably some other things to it but I wouldn't get too conspiracy-theory obsessed yet.

[Not_Giving_Up]

11. His sub isn't being retired

They just got a new captain.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

30. Don't believe what you read in a newspaper or hear on television....

...with the kind of military actions the Busch Junta is planning, they will need every submarine and surface ship they can keep afloat.

China has been rather demonstrative of late, and I doubt seriously that the Navy would scale back anything at the moment.

[gratuitous]

4. Be very, very, skeptical

Discharged after only one year of a six year hitch? And other branches of the military aren't meeting recruitment goals? And the military already paid for all sorts of schooling and training and now they want to shake his hand and say, "Good luck, son."?

Unless he likes the way he looks in prison gray or Army green, he'd be a fool to turn in his Navy blues at this time.

[Padraig18]

5. "Don't ask, don't tell"?

Just askin', is all...

:shrug:

[Not_Giving_Up]

14. No, that's not it

Matter of fact, while on deployment, he bought a ring for his girlfriend, but he hasn't popped the question yet.

He said that he didn't get some quals done that he should have while out at sea. I don't get how they're just going to tell him to have a nice life, and they eat all of the money they've put into him.

[acmejack]

65. If you are a "Non-Qual"

on a submarine, you can be placed in "hack" (restricted to the boat) but not discharged. Worst case-off to the surface fleet. I was a long time sailor and have never ever heard of someone getting out of a commitment of that length. 6 months, perhaps...

[Vinca]

6. Well, we know for a fact there's a "back door draft," but

have they ever called someone back and put them in another branch of the service? I don't think so, but maybe that's a new and improved dirty trick getting ready to happen.

[DulceDecorum]

13. Let me add one more word to your excellent post:

ROVE.

[DS1]

7. My $.02 the matter. They want him to take the discharge, but not

resign his commission as an officer, so they can call him up under a DOD-wide umbrella of IRR and put him on the ground somewhere.

[Not_Giving_Up]

15. Yeah, I saw the 60 Minutes on that a while back

Exactly what I'm thinking.

[Boo Boo]

68. Absolutely.

First thing the guy should do, once discharged, is to immediately resign his commission. Take a lesson from the Chimp in Chief.

[Ganja Ninja]

8. Sounds rather unusual.

There must be something more to it. It may be that they think he's unsuited to be an officer. It's one thing to complete the academy which is mostly going to school. It's all together different to be serving in the field, or in his case a ship.

[Not_Giving_Up]

16. He didn't go to an academy

They paid for his four year degree at a college in upstate NY, then sent him to nuke and sub schools after that. He did say that the last captain didn't like him very much.

[Ganja Ninja]

22. I served on subs myself.

and my brother went to nuclear power school and was on subs as well. They can be pretty particular when it comes to the nuke stuff.

[driver8]

43. I went through naval nuc-u-lar power training...believe me,

the Navy likes to get their money's worth!! There is something very fishy about this. Even if something happened that would cause your brother to lose his nuclear classification, the Navy certainly would find another billet for him somewhere.

[caligirl]

25. It can be such a dog and pony show and kissup game in the service

[beam me up scottie]

31. Jeez, in the corps if your captain didn't like

you he arranged to have you sent to the suckiest post they could find.

Totally illogical-have him talk to an advocate or a civvy lawyer if need be, something stinks.

[retnavyliberal]

41. I hate to say this

but I was in for 21 years. This sounds to me like an unsuitability discharge. The qual you mentioned was likely his "dolphins" which is a "drivers license" to be on a sub. (sorry to all the sub-mariners out there. Skimmer here)

If you ever see his DD-214, check his reenlistment code or "RE" code. if it is RE-3 or RE-4, just know he did not get out of the Navy for being a model sailor (at least in the eyes of someone)

[caligirl]

10. Its a RIF, he needs to ask about severance pay for firing him early

(lay off) They have to many in this area. If he says he wants to stay in , they owe him money for forcing him out early. Reduction In Force is what they are doing here. Too many in the Navy, in this area anyway. If he likes the Navy and wants to stay in he should look at ways to stay in. Otherwise he could go to a nuclear power company and make some good money. Is he a Regular commission? Is he being pushed out, they may need to pay him separation money. If they are offering him the chance to leave if he wants, they may not owe him money. He may want to try to stay in for an additional 2years of work experience.

This advice from a Naval Academy grad. '78


(the blue to green is focused on enlisdted persoonel and they are paying bonuses I believe to get them to move over. The Navy is just cutting back on officers and is doing a RIF. It was done while we were active duty but then they wanted Marine pilots to move to the Navy.)

[beam me up scottie]

12. "recommended for an honorable discharge"

Are those his exact words?

Something he's not telling you maybe?

[UdoKier]

17. I got an honorable discharge from the Navy after only 1 1/2 years.

I was enlisted, though, and only owed four years. I was bi, so I said I was gay and got the hell out. I hated the Navy with a passion. Crap pay, crap work, and some of the people you bunk with are the dregs of humanity. Not everyone getting "gay" discharges is being chased out.


I knew another guy who DELIBERATELY wet his bed every night to get an honorable discharge for medical reasons. He was much more miserable than myself.

I would never recommend the Navy to anybody I liked.

[beam me up scottie]

27. Whew, you said it!

I suffered through the corps and always felt for the navy guys that got stuck on our base. My brother (army res.) tells me that all of a sudden "don't ask, don't tell" doesn't apply anymore. I guess they don't mind using the gays as cannon fodder as long as they can kick them out after the "war" is over.

[caligirl]

24. They could be trying to pull a

fast one on him, trying to force him out without paying him anything. They may think since he has largely been in training, he may not know better. Then again there may not be money owed if it is voluntary. But if he is beoing forced out, against his stated will, they probably owe him some severance pay. They may not think he is smart enough or experienced enough to know.

He should stand up in front of his CO and profess his desire to stay= I want to stay I want to stay, It might be necesasary if he wants the separation money.

Or if he does want out early and has a regular commission your entitled to stay in until you get passed over twice for promotion. If you have a reserve commission your entitlesd to stay on active duty until your year group closes out. This all depends on the personnel rules not having changed in the last 5 years though.

[beam me up scottie]

28. I'm with you, distrusting the

military is not called paranoia, it's called experience.

He should talk to an advocate if possible.

[sui generis]

18. did somebody ask or tell?

[Not_Giving_Up]

19. No...I've already answered that above n/t

[fooj]

20. He has nuclear traing and sub school and they are giving him an

honorable discharge? He owes 5 years? Is this the same military that charges it's own for medical expenses? Wow! Unbelievable.

[Don Claybrook]

21. His training cost hundreds of thousands

If he went to Nuclear Power School and spent 6 months at a prototype reactor, the USN spent at least a couple hundred thousand dollars on him (it was 100,000+ back in 1990, so I'm sure it's gone up accordingly since then).

So yeah, it seems odd that they would want him out now. Go figure.

[Not_Giving_Up]

23. Exactly

College was $120,000.00, plus the training that they put him through to get him sub ready. Something stinks here.

[DELUSIONAL]

26. I agree -- something doesn't add up

Training for the nuke subs is expensive -- now to be released from duty early??

This does happen but there are often other reasons -- like one sailor tried to commit suicide (real case -- Sub Base Bangor).

If he is asked to join the "Fleet Reserve" -- he can be called up. There have been cases of Navy Fleet Reserve Officers being called up and found themselves in Iraq with the Marines. It would depend on the "skills draft" that I've seen floating around on DU and on the back pages of the corporate media.

Plus the military doesn't have to be honest -- in fact expect them to lie.

This sounds like a very stinky fish story.

But then in the Vietnam war -- the Navy had too many sailors and made anyone with 20 years or more retire.

[kurtyboy]

32. Stinks to high heaven.

I have a nephew in the nukes and he is being courted for reenlistment. They just upped the re-up bonus from $70,000 to $100,000--it doesn't soundlike they want to reduce forces to me.

It is more plausable that the person in question: 1)is a screw-up, 2)will get reassigned to another service as speculated above, or 3)is part of a black program still attached to the military.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. Having been a former Navy officer myself, your brother's situation...

...is more than a little strange. He has either pissed someone off, or he is about to be "sheep-dipped" into some ultra-classified program that he can NEVER tell anyone about, much less tell his family. They will NOT tell him anything until he is presented with his Navy discharge papers.

Believe me...the Navy is not about to let anyone go with the training your brother has had.

[Not_Giving_Up]

35. I know that he hasn't gotten along well with the captain on his sub

The sub he was on previously was a different story, the captain wrote glowing recommendations for him. For whatever reason, they transferred him to the one he's on now about a month before deployment. This captain has said that he questions my brother's ability to lead, which no one else has ever questioned. Also, my brother said that he didn't meet some goals for quals while deployed. I would think that they'd ride his ass about that, not send him home.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

46. Every Navy officer, surface or subsurface, has to meet some basic....

....qualifications for ship-handling, navigation, power plant, etc. If he failed to meet those goals, they wouldn't discharge him, but they would send him to a shore-based command until he fulfilled his obligated time. I cannot imagine the Navy or any other branch of the service sending anyone home early at the current time.

Here's a site with all of the pins for various qualifications:

<http://www.answers.com/topic/military-badges-of-the-united-states>

But, I'm betting that this is what your brother didn't earn...go to "Submarine Warfare", and then click on: * Submarine Officer Pin.

[kurtyboy]

48. Yep, sheep -dipped is the most plausible

They don't even tell the subject about it until it's a done deal--and then the subject has some soul-searching to do....

"Here's your cover story, good luck! Oh, don't tell your wife!"

[lastknowngood]

33. Once they discharge him he becomes inactive reserve they

can then activate him and direct him to wherever they want. He's screwed.

[Not_Giving_Up]

34. That's pretty much what I'm afraid of

He doesn't think they'd do anything bad to him. OK, whatever!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

66. It;'s also cheaper for the armed services to do this. The pay rate and

benefits are less, aren't they?

[onecitizen]

36. This sounds exactly like.......

someone I know.

[Not_Giving_Up]

37. Stationed where?

Maybe you know my brother!

[DELUSIONAL]

38. Kings Bay or Bangor?

There are only two nuke sub bases that I know of.

I've been on my tiny sailboat on the Hood Canal and a huge Trident Sub crossed in front of our boat. That sub is HUGE!

[KansDem]

40. Wow!!!

[DELUSIONAL]

42. Yep that's a Trident --

The people looked really tiny way up there in the sail's conning tower. I know it's sort of funny to call the structure on the top side of a sub a sail -- a sail boat's sail is very different.

The sub had just come through the Hood Canal Bridge -- so we stopped our tiny engine and waited for it to pass. Also since it was post 9/11 one has to be very careful and respectful when near any military ship. Even tiny sailboats.

Anyway -- to even be on board that boat requires thousands of $$$ of training and continual training.

[rocktivity]

55. Damn! The SMALLEST of those subs would fill out a football field!

:crazy:
rocknation

[kurtyboy]

47. Huge is right!

I've been fishing in the Straights and on Hood Canal when these babies (the Trident Boomers) transit---

I can only say that I felt I was looking at a seaborne Grim Reaper--this things are black and evil looking--there's no other way to describe them--pure evil...."mwa ha hah ha ha" and all that...

[Not_Giving_Up]

53. He's in Norfolk

Been there a little over a year.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

64. Lovely place....was stationed in Little Creek for a year. Yuck.

[Dave Reynolds]

39. He should not take the discharge,

that would leave him wide open for a callback into ground units.

[driver8]

44. Please keep us posted on how this ends up...

This story just doesn't make sense.

[Canadian Socialist]

50. No it doesn't

The military never lose someone they have spent so much on. I would tell your brother to get an attorney and check out why they want him to voluntarily resign his commision. Unless there is more to the story then what he has told you. Of course, if he is going to be discharged dishonourably because of something that happened and they are just giving him an honourable way to get out. I'm not saying this is what is, I'm just saying. BTW, I checked w/my dad (40 yrs w/British & Canadian forces w/alot of American connections, he thinks this stinks... something else is up).

To reiterate, tell your brother to get a civilian lawyer and figure out exactly what they are asking of him.

[Not_Giving_Up]

52. I plan to sit down with him soon

He's supposed to take leave, possibly next week, and he'll be home then. He doesn't want the parental units to know yet, he wants to tell them in person. He's quite certain that his dad will blow a gasket.

[Not_Giving_Up]

54. I will

I knew something smelled about this, which is why I posted here.

[rocktivity]

56. I think it smells worse than a decomposing skunk.

x(
rocknation

[Not_Giving_Up]

58. Pretty much

The thing is, he was raised by fundie control freaks, and was taught not to question authority. He's quite excited that they will be connecting him with resources to find a civilian job. Good grief, little brother, open your eyes!!

[kurtyboy]

59. "they will be connecting him with resources to find a civilian job."

Case closed--black ops.

Kurtyboy

[hunter]

60. Yep, running the power plant in Dick Cheney's bunker...

If I was a "fundie" I'd be a little worried about working so close to the gates of hell.

[kodi]

49. resign his commission the day he musters out.

that way they can't recall him back. check the navy regs

[rocktivity]

57. They couldn't bring him back AT ALL? Not even as a grunt or a noncom?

I hope you're right. But if the Bush regime as taught me anything, it's that they don't waste time on laws which don't suit their purposes.

:headbang:
rocknation

[FreedomAngel82]

51. Definietly sounds fishy

if he still owes them years. I thought you had to apply for a discharge and weren't just given one? So what's up with that?

[BamaBecky]

61. You are spot on to question this! n/t

[cleofus1]

62. self delete

nt

[SKKY]

63. The "Blue to Green" program has been around, in varying...

...flavors for quite a while now- probably more than 10 years. Once he's honorably discharged, there's no legal basis for them to "force" him to go Army. When he got his commission, he probably had to do 6 years, plus inactive reserve another 6 after discharge. No big deal. Everyone does that. But, they can't just "flip" him one day and turn him into a Grunt. Something else is going on here...

[China_cat]

67. My niece is in the Navy

also a nuke. She tells me they've been offering BIG money incentives to them if they'll go green.

But there's got to be a really hefty reason they want to get rid of him. Because they've kept people in my niece's class who would have been gone in any other service. Training a nuke is just too expensive.

And if he went through the S to A program, getting rid of him would be an even more expensive move.

[hector459]

69. Two reasons for this according to my Navy cousin.

(And I am not trying to start a flame war so don't start one)

The individual is an outed gay and doesn't want family and friends to know about it OR the individual is about to go under deep cover and be conscripted for service elsewhere doing things he dare not speak of. My cousin feels that if it were just a matter of a back door draft the individual would have been offered financial incentives to make it worthwhile.

[SKKY]

70. If your niece is a nuke in the Navy...

...I can guarantee you, in fact I'd bet my house on it, that the incentive she would get to re-enlist as a Nuke (6.5 SRB level I believe) is probably 5 to 6 times more than what the Army would offer.

[EC]

71. If he doesn't officially sign off, they can call him back to duty...

in what ever capacity he is needed...That's what happened with other officers that thought they were out, once they were honorably discharged, but they didn't read the small print, it seems there is a clause that if they haven't officially resigned their post, it's still active...There is one guy suing now, because he got called back in...

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Ok this is fishy as hell

the only explanation is don't ask don't tell

They don't let go off engs unelss they really screwed up.

Something is VERY FISHY

and if he was outed... even the sub fleet has no choice

Just my two cents, and yes they are very tolerant....