Gannon Wrinkles 15

[EFerrari]

Links in progress.
Previous thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3240504&mesg_id=3243340

high school pic:

enlarged:


junior class officers:


student council prez


better angle, senior year.


imaginary girl's quick compare:

[imaginary girl]

1. Okay here are just the eyes.

But the direction isn't the same ...

[fooj]

2. I'm not sure if I'm going to make sense here so please bear with me...

When I looked at the HS pic I thought "This kid's eyes have life...hopeful, alive, etc..." Gannon's eyes are empty, dark, vacant...almost with no soul. I felt the same way the first time i saw Scott Peterson on the tube. My first reaction to my husband was "Look at his eyes." His eyes were quite telling. IMHO. So are Gannons. Am I making any sense?

[mordarlar]

6. I know what you are saying. Complete sense.

[FreedomAngel82]

49. Definietly

The eyes are a gateway to the soul. It's how you can tell alot about a person.

[EFerrari]

10. Yep. You sure are. n/t

[mordarlar]

3. Thank you for posting them sfexpat2000...

:yourock: I am soo sick of Guckert photos lol

[fooj]

4. You must be exhausted. I am very proud of you, M.

You showed great courage today. You've inspired many of us by your valiant efforts. With that heartfelt message out of the way...check out my #2 post on this thread, please. Thanks!

[EFerrari]

11. O mi lord! I don't want to ask what you went though to post them

because I HAVE HAD NIGHTS LIKE THAT!

You rock!

:yourock:

[mordarlar]

5. I also want to say a HUGE thank you to everyone. Very kind. : D

[Andy_Stephenson]

7. Thanks for your efforts...

They are appreciated more than you know.

[fooj]

Hey big guy...WTF are you doing up? Be careful not to deprive yourself

of some much needed rest, OK? BTW- are you on the edge of your seat yet?

[mordarlar]

21. Thanks Andy. Means a lot.

[Gelliebeans]

30. Glad to see you Andy n/t

[libertypirate]

8. Well if that is true... about the watch mordarlar...

You might have the evidence that proves.
Guckert is not Guckert

If you look at this image.



A watch is worn habitually.

[mordarlar]

12. I looked again at the pic. There is writing in the corner....

it looks as if it was written ON the photo. But it proves the yearbook printer did not "flop" the photo. Once the battery charges i will try to photograph it. It barely peeks out so it may not show up. Definitely his right hand tho.

There is writing in the background of your photo too. No flop there either.

[EFerrari]

19. Thanks! I wondered it the image had been flipped.

If you get a bead on the writing, that would be helpful.

[EFerrari]

14. Can't find the watch story you refer to, tell you why I care.

When I was living in Berkeley, someone thought it would be a good idea to rob my house and hurt me. Well, I scared him off, chased him into the arms of the Berkeley police. I I.D.d him via his fluorescent watch. He was a two time loser/rape. (Wipes brow)

Where do I go look to get your reference?

[libertypirate]

15. Pretty easy

everyone I know wears their watch on the same wrist every day...

[EFerrari]

16. Right. But I missed something. What post first brought up the watch?

[mordarlar]

23. It was the last thread... LINK.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3240504&mesg_id=3243346&page=

[EFerrari]

28. Thank you! I always have to go back and read the last one again. nt

[fooj]

22. Holy Crap!

:scared:

[EFerrari]

26. Hey, watches come in handy! n/t

[mordarlar]

25. Wow, I'm sorry.

[Gelliebeans]

31. I do know what you mean about

wearing a watch habitually. Glad you caught the b*stard! ;)

[EFerrari]

32. Me, too.

My son was sleeping in the next room.

Mess with MY KID!

:hi:

[libertypirate]

128. Watches are a learned behavior....

Have you ever put your watch on the wrong wrist?

People are creatures of habits.

Behavior that runs consistent through our lives we often don't change it, even from childhood.

It's how we cope with the mundane, mindless tasks instead of thinking about them we just do what we have done many times before. Without thinking about it, our brains already thought it through once why think it through again, the more we repeat the less we think it through.

It might be why Guckert put his watch in the picture in many of them.

If he is who many of us believe he is, his skills would most notably included studying people and their behaviors. He would have studied the real Guckert and would have noticed this.

I am not sure about MPD(multiple personality disorder), there must be a point at which behavior memories separate from personality memories. At a point I would think habitual behaviors are tied to personality, nervous behavior, some habits, etc.


lp

[Jose Diablo]

33. Is that a Rolex?

Has the general shape.

As for the senior in HS not wearing a watch? Maybe his father didn't buy him one.

[FreedomAngel82]

53. I agree on the watch

I've had the same watch since tenth grade (still works and all).

[mordarlar]

57. Watch photos...

The writing says Conneaut Lake and a series of numbers.



A closeup of Guckert's wrist. I am not sure if the pic will show as clearly as the copy does.

[BuyingThyme]

62. Looks like he's wearing a long-sleeved collared shirt under a sweater..

(I think it's a sleeve, not a watch.)

[intheflow]

117. Agreed. It looks like a sleeve to me. n/t

[libertypirate]

129. Could be a watch or a shirt sleeve....

under his sweater.

Not clear...

[Blue Gardener]

112. Are we sure it's a watch?

I can't tell from the picture. During that time frame a lot of people wore an MIA bracelet to remember the missing soldiers from the Vietnam war. (I know, I'm dating myself).

[SheepyMcSheepster]

131. i would be careful about making assumptions by his watch wearing

when i was younger, i prefered to wear a watch on my right arm as it was easier for me to put on that way.

after a bit of time not wearing a watch and being a young adult i switched to the left arm as it was considered more acceptable.

now a days i don't wear a watch at all, i can't stand to have them on my arm.

my point is that at different times in my life i comfortably wore my watch on both arms. first choosing right when i was younger, then going left.

just a thought i would share.

[burn the bush]

144. same here

though I agree that it is somewhat habitual for most people and a good clue. But not definative.

on edit: I was just thinking that if you handed me a watch right now, I would put it on my left hand. Because like you said, it was easier. I would think that most kids would do the same thing. They would put it on the easier hand. That would tell you which hand is dominant.

so this watch idea may be telling us that these two people are possibly not "same handed" Grown up Gannon is a righty, this boy, if it is a watch, may be a lefty.

of course there is always the possibility that watch wearing is a gay sign like which ear you wore the earring in, or what color hankie you put in your pocket.

[fob]

201. Look at the "watch" pic again. The boy in that pic is reaching in with

his left hand, (are the girls playing Chess? or ??), which "should" be his dominant hand. Think about it when playing board games or making fine motor-skills moves do you do that with your dominant hand or weaker hand?

That looks like a shirt sleeve to me, but I'd also say from the pic the boy is probably left handed, which means wearing a watch on his right hand would be standard because it's easier to use you stronger hand to hook up the watch. I'm right-handed and when I wear a watch I wear it "upside-down" on my left wrist, because that's the naturally easiest way to put it on.

The high school pics do look like jeff gannon though, imo. But so does the Johnny Gosch pic, so AGHAGAHGHAGHAHGGHGHAHGAH.

[Dookus]

212. nonsense

I've been gay a helluva long time, and where I put my watch was never a signal. And btw, I haven't worn a colored hankie, either - you're allowing your stereotypes about gay people to color your view.

[burn the bush]

227. hey, I just said maybe there was something like that

as for the hankies, I read an article that supposedly dealt with the hankies and their meanigs. It was pretty intinsive actually. I have no reason to doubt it though i did not try to research it to see if I could find "gay hanky meanings" in 3 sources so that I could consider it common knowledge. (maybe you just arn't allowed in the cool gay clubs) Just kidding.
Besides, it wasn't a slam for me to suggest that since this guckert was supposed to be out in the 70's that maybe he wore his watch as a signal like the left or right single earring thing. Therefore it could be on the "wrong" arm for other reasons.
I guess the earring thing wasn't a gay or not thing either right? Coz I know a whole lot of young boys that wanted to make damaned sure that they got that single earring pierced to the correct ear.

[libertypirate]

164. If you wore a watch everyday of your life...

You wear it the same way!

I did the same as you but today I put my watch on the wrong arm it doesn't even feel right.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

199. yeah it doesn't feel right, but if you wanted to switch you could

you would just have to make a decision to get used to it being on the other arm.

all i am saying is that the arm that someone wears a watch on can change. that is all.

[EFerrari]

9. I feel concerned about the OP's loading time. Whaddya think? n/t

[imaginary girl]

13. How's this for a theory ...?

... human cloning experiments ...!

[zann725]

175. Looks to me...that even within these several photos...the faces/personnas

do NOT match??? The "Guckert" sitting on the stairs (in Class Officer pic), as well as the "Guckert" in the Tennis Club photo has that geek-ish ("loner") personna. While the "Guckert" in several of the other photos (including his Senior Year photo...taken no doubt in the Fall of his Junior year...as is normal)...looks like a much more 'in crowd' guy, that would've fit it comfortably, been voted to Class Officer, and be more well-known. The geekish "Guckert" sitting on the steps has a jaw line and face and personna which in NO WAY matches the later "Guckert." Also, the "Guckert" on the steps, and in the Tennis Club photos...does NOT appear to be athletic, or coordinated enough to be on a tennis team. Does he in any way look like an athlete to anyone here?

I'm having a trouble with the photos even within this one yearbook. Something is not 'right' here.

[fooj]

205. You are absolutely correct. My take-

There is no way in hell this guy was voted in as Junior Class President if we can't even find mention or a photo of him in the yearbook during his sophomore year! I teach high school and I am fairly confident that this would never happen...especially for an upper classman. As I've stated earlier in this thread-his eyes are wrong. Compare the two. Peace.

[troubleinwinter]

226. eyes

As an artist who has drawn the human form and faces from live models, bone structure is the underlayment of a partrait. To my eye, the structure matches.

Lips thin as one becomes an adult, rather than a (15 yr old) child. It is one of the features that tells us it is a child.

[Borgnine]

17. The guy looks like Gannon.

Very much so. The thing is, like it was mentioned above, his eyes look different somehow. I'm not sure if his eye sockets are further away from the bridge of his nose than Gannon's or not. The nose itself is similiar... it's very slender, but the kid's seems to protrude more near the top and is slightly skinnier at the bottom (again, this is just a quick eye comparison between these and the "bulldog" photos).

I don't know. The chin and overall shape of the head makes me think it's him. It's hard to say though.

[EFerrari]

24. Which shot(s) ? n/t

[Pastiche423]

18. A quickie - side by side - no hair

Sure wish there was a younger pic showing his ears.

[fooj]

20. Noses are wrong! Eyes are wrong! Not betting the farm on this one.

peace.

[mordarlar]

27. But close enough to add suspicion to a "two" theory. Yanno?

Something really looks different with the eyes. I would say age but the similarity to the Gosch photos was closer than this. Look through a door and see 15 more. DAMN.

[EFerrari]

34. I agree. At least two. Damn. n/t

[fooj]

74. Two, maybe three...

:cry:

[Pastiche423]

29. I agree

The nose could have been fixed, but not the eyes.

I've compared a hs pic of mine w/a present pic. The shape of my face is different (hadn't lost baby fat in hs pic), but the eyes and nose are the same.

[shraby]

40. The upper lip is thicker on the kid

than on Gannon.

[Lerkfish]

154. agreed. eyes and noses, and mouth don't match up.

as far as I can tell.

[Borgnine]

35. "Bulldog" with the young Guckert hair.

Don't know if this helps or not.

[Jose Diablo]

38. Is that George Harrisson?

I didn't know he was in the service.

[EFerrari]

39. Hafta say, I just REALLY don't want to look at this guy anymore.

But it does help.

Has anyone ever considered that the JDG project would try to impersonate Johnny Gosch?

Just a strange thought.

[zann725]

36. The problem I have with nobody (except Greco) remembering Guckert...

IS that he was a class officer, AND a member in several class Clubs. Plus an indication of someone's "popularity" in high school is how often their picture appears in the Year Book. I was on the Editorial Staff of mine, and I can tell you that there was great deal of pressure to put in lots of photos of the most "popular" class members. So Guckert's appearance this many times in the year book, plus his Class Officer status, SHOULD indicate that he was VERY well known, and popular. Yet no one (except Greco) has come forward to say they know him.

Unless Guckert ISN'T Gannon...in which case, those who knew the REAL Guckert would KNOW he wasn't Gannon. And therefore, woldn't come forward.

[EFerrari]

43. Tend to agree. But not even come forward to dispell the "smear"?

I didn't have a normal high school deal, went to a junior college for the last two years so my experience doesn't help me get it.

[mordarlar]

61. He looks too similar too NOT be in on it, if it is another guy.

If some person showed up on TV looking THAT much like me with the SAME NAME, i would have ALREADY known about it or would be seriously freaked out.

[fooj]

76. What you say makes perfect sense-

that is, of course, if he's still with us. :scared:

[intheflow]

119. mordarlar, can you guess how big a HS this is?

My graduating class had about 350 kids. My son's graduating class had 100 kids. My boyfriend's class had 1500. The size of the school might affect the likelihood of people remembering him.

[zann725]

174. Regardless of size of HS, class officers are elected by MAJORITY vote

So Guckert would've had to be known AND liked by a MAJORITY of the student body at his HS. That means a lot of people.

It's possible that since the story has NOT been well-covered by the media, and since the few references in MSM to his Guckert name did NOT specify that he went to school in Coneaut, PA...and since he has NO hair now (perhaps on purpose to disguise his earlier I.D.), those who DID know him, may have not connected-the-dots to a "Guckert" from Coneaut, PA.

Plus we must remember, there MAY have been at least a few calls coming into MSM phone banks of people who DID know Gannon/Guckert in his youth, and in HS, but all of those would've be squashed, as we know.

Just as an aside, regarding Coneaut, PA...isn't that a resort, tourist area? If so, a lot of tourists in and out of the area on a regular basis.

[mordarlar]

183. My high school was a 500 graduating class. This looked smaller.

Other than that i cannot guess a number, except to say that it is a NOT a big area. That said i will say that the student number was larger than i expected from the area. The town's ONLY library is in what looks like an old house. Not very big.

[burn the bush]

149. unless the real guckert died and thats why he isn't coming out

and how much msm news on gannon/guckert has there been? I mean do most people even know about Gannon?

[fooj]

191. Bingo! I was too chicken to say it!

[mordarlar]

60. He was in soccer , a defensive line (varsity i think) Model UN (2 yrs)

yearbook editor, student council president, tennis and the junior class officer president. I half expected him to see him as the escort for the homecoming queen.

All this in TWO yearbooks.

[fooj]

78. Do you think we could find the 9th/10th Yearbooks?

Most HS's have a copy of each year in the school library. Just a thought...

[mordarlar]

87. I looked through the 10th grade. I saw lots of photos of Greco. None of

Guckert. Not even a class shot. In the other books Greco and Guckert are never more than a few people apart. I looked through all the grades. I saw nothing. If there is a pic of Guckert in the 73 yearbook i did not see it.

[burn the bush]

151. what about in other grades of the same yearbook. Gannon claims a brother

I wonder if there were any other Guckerts in the yearbooks. Like an older or younger brother.

[Catherine Vincent]

156. Apparently there wasn't one near his age because mordalar

would have seen if there were other guckerts in the yearbook.

[mordarlar]

185. Guckerts brother was OLDER than him and we did not see any others.

[fooj]

189. Ok. So this guy is JUNIOR CLASS PRESIDENT yet there's NO MENTION

or PICTURES in the yearbook of him the previous year. Something is wrong. Very wrong.

[mordarlar]

219. I want to be careful and clarify...i did not see a pic. I looked through

all the grades in what would have been his SOPHOMORE year. I looked through the groups also. But that being said, it would be easy to miss a group shot of someone. It is possible that he did not take a class pic and i missed a group shot. My opinion is that he did not attend that year. I just wanted to make sure people understood i could be wrong.

[s-cubed]

235. He wasn't there in the tenth grade,

yet if he moved to the new school as a junior, he sure hit the ground running. It's tough for a teenager to move to a new high school : usually takes them awhile to get their feet under them and make friends. Yet this Guckert guy gets elected both years, is in lots of activities, including Model UN for 2 years. Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice. Also, does this popular kid sound like our brash, obnoxious, know-it-all Mr. Gannon? I don't think so.

As to the size of the high school: it's very common in rural areas to have high school kids come from a number of surrounding towns, so the fact that guckert went to this high school doesn't mean he actually lived in C. Lake. (I'm not even going to try to spell it!)

It's also possible that he was there, but missed the picture taking day. But if he wasn't in pictures, he probably wasn't there.

On edit: just went through thread again, and saw posts about the discordant between the persona in the photos. I agree with this. Isn't this what happened with Oswald as well? Didn't differeent Oswalds go to the same school at different times?

[fooj]

75. Exactamundo! 2+2 does not equal 5. Peace.

[intheflow]

118. Not necessarily.

I think a lot of people in high school in the '70's wouldn't know who their class president was. Not cool to be in politics, class officers were nerds, etc. I mean, I even ran with members of that crowd in HS but I only remember two officers from the 4 years off the top of my head. One because I had a major crush on him and the other because when I helped organize the 10th year reunion I learned our sr. yr. class president had embezzled our class treasury so we had to charge money for the reunion.

I'll also bet this is a small rural high school, so there may not be that big a pool of classmates to even draw from. And considering probably less than 30% of the overall population has even heard of Guckert, much less Gannon, that really dwindles the rememberance possibilities.

[slaveplanet]

37. the senior pic looks

very much like Gannon ...If it's him , he's aged very well

The eyes are a bit different ...but the chin cleft ....

[thjay]

41. I have a photo comparison

can someone tell me how to include a picture in my post?

[BuyingThyme]

42. This is a no-brainer.

The guy in the high school yearbook is JimJeff GuckertGannon.

No question about it.

[EFerrari]

46. Fine. But who is that? See the problem? n/t

[BuyingThyme]

50. He's a male prostitute with connections to the

U.S. military, the GOP, and the Bush White House.

[EFerrari]

52. That makes sense to me,

But consider this: someone wanted the Johnny Gosch story to be resurrected, because the bread crumbs have been plentiful.

So, someone wanted the pedoophilia ring to get attention again.

Who? Why?

[BuyingThyme]

59. I don't agree.

I think the trail was established because there were male prostitutes in the Reagan/Bush White House (which were linked to the Franklin case), and now there is a male prostitute in the Bush II White House.

[EFerrari]

64. Those events seem to be true. My question is, why now?

This is the most message disciplined WH I've ever seen. (Understatement)

Who and what allowed this guy to be an issue?

Not trying to be annoying, but the question persists.

[BuyingThyme]

73. You're not being annoying at all.

Everybody is asking those kinds of questions about JimJeff -- even some corporate media people. But, while interesting, the Gosch angle never really had any solid footing.

And, Like I said from the beginning, I don't buy into the Gosch connection, but I'm all for anything that explores and exposes the Franklin cover-up.

[KansDem]

188. Another DUer got me to thinking a few days ago about "who" and "why"

I don't recall who it was; I believe it was on one of the JJ threads, but this one DUer mused about how the intelligence agencies were left taking the fall for the 9/11 attacks.

I got the impression that perhaps a person or persons in the intelligence agencies was/were acrimonious about being the scapegoat for the Bush Family's/PNACers' 9/11 debacle and was seeking revenge. As another DUer once said, "You don't want to piss off the intelligence communities..."*
________
*I believe this was either Will Pitt or matcom...

[human survival]

72. & James Gannon of Iowa

the newspaper editor, for the paper Johny Gosch devlivered, who published letters written to him by Noreen Gosch, basically knocking her case in public...

the theorizing goes

Jeff Gannon aka aka aka
Bush # something
Craig Spence
Larry King
Johny Gosch

now how are we going to have a James Gannon assisting the cover up of a pedohpile prostitution ring as a newspaper editor and now a Jeff Gannon aka James Gluckert covering up (or taking off, or whatever, i havent yet figured out the point of this whole mess...) impersonating as a journalist & moonlighting as a homosexual prostitute.

i dont know, with all the connections its all worth looking into.

one
human?

[Dookus]

82. But that's the flaw...

the idea that 5 weak connections are somehow equivalent to one good connection.

Johnny Gosch didn't "work for" the news editor. He was a newspaper boy. I was a newspaper boy, but I never would've claimed to have worked for the Editor. I worked for a man who dropped off the papers and paid me on saturdays named Mr. Bryce.

Bush 41 had no demonstrated link to prostitution. The story is that some high-level Republican fundraiser managed to score a White House tour for some of his boy-toys. That's not a link to the Vice-President.

Raising 20 "questions" that are specious is NOT evidence that something real is going on. This reminds me of the Berg beheading debate here - people argued SO many debunked points, but after each and every point was shot down, they argued that the sheer number of points was meaningful. It is not. If 20 points are shot down, you are left with no points.

[human survival]

88. how can there be a flaw?

this is all speculation.

communal brainstorming.

as far as i know, there hasnt been any resolution to the Johny Gosch case.

and the washington / nebraska pedophile prostitution rings seems a bit unresolved, unless Craig Spence killing himself is resolution.

nothing you mentioned has been "debunked".

the only thing shot down was that plane in Pennsylvania so save your evidence & debate for congress.... let the ideas flow here and perhaps in the future through the real new media (people) we will actually resolve some of this bullshit....

so just cool, and present some info youve found interesting, & how it relates.

one
human?

[Dookus]

92. well

I guess we read it differently. I see a lot of presumption that Guckert is Gosch.

I think the mere fact that their ages are off by 10 years or so is sufficient to consider it debunked.

Do you really believe that evidence is irrelevant to debate? How do you expect to arrive at the truth if speculation is of the same value as evidence? Do you really not see how that approach is likely to fail?

I don't have to debunk the idea that George H. W. Bush was involved in a pedophile ring. Somebody else is making that extraordinary claim, and is therefore tasked with providing the evidence for it. The fact that some male prostitutes got a White House tour while George H. W. Bush was Vice-President isn't sufficent to prove that link. It will take a helluva lot more evidence than that.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

95. I believe in truth, too

I think we just differ greatly on which approach gets us there.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

102. Huh?

You think I reject the notion that George H. W. Bush is a pedophile because I respect him? And that if I lost that respect, I would accept your view that he's a pedophile? That's nonsense.

I argue for some semblance of reason because I remember reading exactly this kind of rampant speculation about the Clintons in the 90s. Ridiculously tenuous links were made, and conclusions drawn from them. As a result, one could conclude that Bill was a drug runner, Hillary was a lesbian, Hillary shot Vince Foster, Bill was a rapist, Hillary stole millions from her law firm, Bill had Ron Brown murdered, etc. etc. etc.

I believe none of those things is true. I believe they were all put forward by people who were willing to believe anything, no matter how shakey, in order to advance their political cause. I think I'm seeing the same thing here.

This President certainly has enough faults to focus on without inventing new ones. In fact, I believe that if I wanted to discredit legitimate criticism, I would link it to whacked out conspiracy theories that are easily disproven.

I think somebody is pushing disinformation on this case, in order to discredit ALL reasonable criticism of the Gannon affair.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

105. Have I ever told you or anyone else to shut up?

I've merely disagreed with you.

Why is it that so many people find disagreement a demand for silence?

[human survival]

108. agree to disagree

and neither one of us are really talking anyways.

my only beef is that im encouraging people to do research & you dont seem to think that its valid subject matter (perhaps just in relation to this situation, but i feel like that hasnt yet been established)....

anyways that not really beef, just me wanting to make a point... research!!! its the only way, re educate yourselves everyday.

so no worries.

i agree to disagree.

one
human?

[Dookus]

110. fair enough

but my concern is that when the research fails to pan out, nobody will disown the ideas put forth.

It was easily disproven that Hillary didn't kill Vince Foster, but many people believe it to this day because the people who first "researched" the idea never had the integrity to disown it when the evidence failed to appear.

I feel confident that 10 years from now, I'll hear from a contingent who believes George H. W. Bush was a pedophile, even if no more evidence is ever produced.

It's a weak way to score points. I think there is SO much that can be done legitimately that wasting time and energy on these goose chases is counterproductive. The mere fact that Gannon and Gosch are 10 years apart in age should've been enough to put the issue to rest immediately. But here we are on Wrinkle thread 15 (or is it 16?) STILL discussing it. People have posted that they are literally breathless over the "news". People can't sleep... people are living minute-by-minute by these threads.

I think there is a story about Gannon. I don't know what it is. His talent certainly didn't dictate his high profile, so one has to wonder how he got the job. But that doesn't mean he was fucking the President. The likely answer is that he was fucking somebody who could get him a job at a new right-wing blog, and whoever ran that blog had enough influence to get him a pass.

What worries me is that when we find out who he was fucking that had enough influence to get him the job, nobody will care, because any truth will be dismissed as coming from the "Gannon=Gosch" nutjobs.

[intheflow]

120. Just to play devil's advocate...

"truth" is a subjective word, imo. There is never one truth, but many truths that overlap. Truth is often in the eyes of the beholder. What may be truth to you (based on your experiences) might not be truth to me (based on my experiences). I often worry that in our quest for "truth" we forget that it is subject to relative interpretation.

But you know, looking for truth is better than ignoring the world around you, so by all means--carry onward!

[Dookus]

77. but to what extent were there male prostitues

in the Reagan/Bush White House? The story usually linked claims that these prostitutes were guests of a Republican donor who got a late-night White House tour.

I haven't read any allegation that there was any contact between said prostitutes and the President or Vice President.

I'm sure there have been plenty of unsavory people in the White House - it doesn't mean they're friends of the administration. Nobody has presented ANY evidence that somebody in the administration was involved in male prostitution. The only claim is that such people got a White House tour, and I doubt the President or VP is closely involved in deciding such things.

[mordarlar]

63. A J D Guckert was in West Chester with a drivers license that said a 1970

birth date. It is not a great pic but it looks VERY LITTLE like this Guckert. So we have SOMEONE (or two people) using TWO different birthdates. One of the birthdates is consistent with Gosch. This younger dated person worked in an auto-body shop. Just like Gannon claimed to in his past. A Jeff Guckert also 1970 grew up only miles from the high school, from which the photos were seen today. Some have traced him to a financial services job. Again Gannon claimed to have this in his past.

Odd stuff going on.

[fooj]

85. We should get some sleep. Agreed?

This is very disturbing.
Shit-I'm not sure that I CAN sleep!!! I want to thank you again for giving us some resolution... KUDOS to the TruthWarrior! Peace.

[mordarlar]

90. Thanks again fooj. : ) sleep sounds VERY good.

[libertypirate]

133. Are you actually looking at the pictures?

I have a hard time with anyone who absolutes anything without sighting a reason.

That is how conjecture fucks up the truth!

Tell me why you think they are the same... Opinions do us very little good.

[BuyingThyme]

209. Conjecture?

It's the same guy.

Can't you even recognize another human being?

[BuyingThyme]

44. What was the interest in this image, anyways?

[human survival]

51. so called Jeff Gannon believes its inevitable.

view the images on its own.

notice its web address.

jdg17 = jeff gannon's AOL screenname.

the image is posted on a web page along with the word INEVITABLE.

do you know who created it? artist?

one
human?

[BuyingThyme]

56. I don't recognize it, but,

I really like it.

If one attempts view it from a religious perspective, one might see it as a representation of a global resistance to the "inevitable" Rapture.

And if you buy into that interpretation, you might see the shadow-casting rectangle as the Bible.

(image added)

[slaveplanet]

126. My take

If you look at it from the reference of a far right winger. The red/ scarlet string could represent communism. In order to break from the darkness into the world of light/shadow the world will have to pass through a storm.

Now if you were to look at it from Biblical/fundy perspective. the Bible does make reference to a "red cord", and many fundies believe "the sea shall turn to blood" in revelation as a reference Sea=people and Blood=red=communism. (they conviently leave out "red state" because it screws up their thinking.)

as for the red cord ...this persons interpretation is a very twisted story indeed..described here:

http://jahtruth.net/uflag.htm

Jacob/Israel's fourth son, who was called Judah, had twin sons called Zarah and Pharez, recorded in Genesis 38: 28-30. When the twins were due to be born Zarah put his hand out of the womb and the midwife tied a "Red Cord" around his wrist to mark the first-born and his birthright. However, Zarah of the "Red-Hand" pulled his hand back and his brother Pharez was born first and so breached Zarah's birthright and was therefore named Pharez meaning breach in Hebrew.

Because Zarah lost his birthright he went into exile to Iberia (Heberia - the Hebrew's land) and built Zaragossa ("Stronghold of Zarah"). Later on the Israelites' traditional enemy Babylon and then Rome (the New Babylon) invaded Iberia (Spain) and drove the Zarahites of the "Red-Hand" to the North of Spain to Galicia and Vizcaya (Biscay) and many left Heberia (Iberia) and sailed to Hibernia (Hebernia - the Hebrew's new land) - Ireland.

In Jerusalem, from Zarah's brother Pharez, came the line of David and Solomon, whose symbol is the "Star of David". So how did the "Star of David" come to Ireland and find its way onto the Ulster Flag?

Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon overthrew king Zedekiah of Jerusalem, from the line of David, c. 588 B.C. and Jeremiah the Prophet took Zedekiah's daughter called Teia Tephi, Jacob's Pillar (The Lia Fail / Stone of Destiny) and "The Ark of The Covenant" from Jerusalem via Tanis in Egypt ("Raiders of the Lost Ark" film); Gibraltar; Galicia and Cornwall and brought them to Ireland for safety. -snip

This is his explanation for his theory about the red hand on the Ulster flag...and it gets even more twisted from there...

I doubt Gannon knows of the red cord story , but I thought I'd add it for reference.

Also the Gold rectangle could mean the "Bible" as mentioned in your post, or it could mean "New Jerusalem"...

My personal feeling is the unknown artist didn't know about the red cord story , and made this painting to represent alternate realities, as in "divorced from".

[BamaBecky]

141. My take on the image

If the sphere represents the truth or a person's spirit, then I see it as trying to escape the darkness but all the while subject to powerful forces from the darkness tying to pull it back to the darkness. The square appears to have some writing on it, but I can't make it out. The blood drops may represent Satanic Ritual Abuse. All this is just a guess on my part.....

[skids]

150. My take...

On the picture is that the sphere is definitely representative of the earth. The patterns and coloring strongly suggest land and sea. Not to say there isn't a double entendre in the symbolism. I seem to remember that in Lovecraft mythos cthulhu (a tentacled monster) is supposed to rift through the dimensions and devour the earth eventually. Another visual "pun" in the image might be that the foreground image is also roughly in the shape of a mushroom cloud.

The red flecks I haven't a clue about yet. Also I'm kinda not entirely sure yet whether the "yarn" appearence is real or an artifact of the pixellation.

Not being able to read the emblem really does suck, I agree. That it casts a shadow is also interesting, and lends it more signfigance as part of the picture. If I had to guess, assuming the image is oriented correctly, the diagonally positioned word at the top looks like "fui".

[St. Benedict]

152. this image...

..does look like a photograph taken of a poster hanging on a wall.

Note the white bricks of the wall along the top and bottom of the image, and the edge of the white paper of the poster on the lower righthand side.

Maybe it is Apocalypse, which is inevitable. The world, ensnared by the devil, is being pulled down into Hell (the blackness below), as the fiery meteors fall from the Heavens during God's Great Chastisement.

I can't see the gold symbol clearly enough to make a comment. Hebrew? Talmudic? Occultic?

[skids]

159. Good eye!

I was thinking the bricks were just jpeg artifacts and that the askew borders were intentionally painted. But you're right, the bend is probably lensing from a camera.

If it's a popular print/college poster, it should be much easier to find.

(On edit -- now that I look at it in scale, rather than bricks I'd say painted wood, vertical slats.)

[mordarlar]

66. good thinking to do hometown search. Have you tried with differant no.s?

[human survival]

80. no, but i used his USMCPT at aol

no, but i used his USMCPT at aol (from his call boy shit.).. & checked its hometown ftp. and came up blank.

i dont know how to find out what other screen names are with the account. one user can have a bunch of SN's.

no other AIM's on those emails either.....

im still interested in the INEVEITABLE page. those AOL webpages are so sloppy that unless it is a planted clue, were dealing with straight up toys in the White House... and since i know they are smart, play fool fe ketch wise, but im interested in their little clue chase... so many different angles on this one..

and all that was assuming you meant no.s as in #'s jdg16 jdg15, no i didnt do that.

i will however take another look at the biblical chapter, Judges 17.... i think Judges 16 is the last chapter about Samson and the two pillars he knocks down.

one
human?

[mordarlar]

83. If memory serves sometimes in a chat room you can see other usernames...

of a room user by clicking on the person's name in the side bar. Been a long time tho.

[intheflow]

121. I also looked at Judges 16

It seems much more relevant to Guckert (images of bondage, shaving of his head). I didn't get anything from the Judges 17 that I felt tied into this at all.

[skids]

130. OK, well hopefully someone will actually READ this.

But I found an image by an author who, if we track him down, might be able to ID the jdg17 inevitable image. Unfortunately it looks like the last thread got locked shortly after I posted that. Man you guys just crank these out! :-)

See here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3240504&mesg_id=3242935

Since then I spent a little more time looking. To me the image had a bit of a H.P. Lovecraft feel to it so in addition to various other things I added "cthulhu" to the search words but that didn't help too much. Today I'm going to ask a couple people who are heavy into gaming whether they recognize it from any of the illuminati/dobbsian/lovecraft type gaming materials.

However, if someone wants to track down this wolf zr2 guy (he has posted other art to the Internet) he might be able to say whether he may have seen jdg17's "inevitable" and used it as inspiration for his.

Oh, and I did find one image slightly similar, but it was just someone using their cthulhu plushie to suck the life out of a plushie smiley :evilgrin:

[intheflow]

136. I Googled "inevitable" under images and found:

This image at this site which bills itself as "creative resistance designed for the emancipation of the human spirit." Obviously, the yarn image caught my attention. FWIW.

[BamaBecky]

143. Hey!...Go read my post at #141.....n/t

[human survival]

138. The Octopus

the closest relevent thing ive found:



The Octopus: Secret Government and the Death of Danny Casolaro

by Kenn Thomas, Jim Keith

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0922915911/qid=1110382251/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/104-0593490-7165510?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

"Investigator Danny Casolaro's 1991 death in a Martinsburg, West Virginia hotel opened the door to a world of conspiracy and intrigue that continues to haunt today's headlines."

and a particularly relevant essay:

http://www.american-buddha.com/death.journalist.htm

"DEATH OF A JOURNALIST EXPOSES A SECRET GOVERNMENT

by Paul DeRienzo

November 1991

Joseph (Danny) Casolaro was a poet, author and investigative journalist who was found dead last August, apparently from his own hand, in a West Virginia motel. Although a short suicide note was found near the body, his friends and family cast doubt on the coroner's version, that Casolaro had slit his own wrists at least ten times while sitting in a bathtub.

Casolaro was planning to write a book that would expose the story behind the 1982 theft by the Department of Justice of case management, tracking and workflow management software called PROMIS (Prosecution Management Information Systems), for use by public prosecution agencies. The software, which is still in use today, allows prosecutors to quickly and accurately track cases winding through the courts.

The investigation had taken the 44-year old divorced father of one into a misty world of organized crime, corporate greed and possibly CIA covert operations that may have led Casolaro over his head into a conspiracy by men with connections to the highest level of the United States government, a conspiracy that Casolaro called the Octopus, because its tentacles led from the covert action branch of the CIA into the heart of the most infamous scandals of our age. "

and i bet there plenty more octopus conspiracy art/propaganda out there...

but perhaps this one is particularly relevent, and..... inevitable

one
human?

[skids]

145. Nice work.

Yeah that seems to be a fairly common theme for conspiracy theories of various persuasions:





(On edit, the elements missing in these are the pulling of the globe into an abyss.)

[skids]

168. More... using search term "poster"

...as per the sharp eye provided above, I added the term "poster" while searching.







And for all the gloom and doom the general theme implies, I happened to run across this for a rebuttal:



And another one for laughs and giggles, though I had to break the
URL because it is too big to embed here for the sake of the bandwidth.

http://profiles. nlm.nih.gov/VC/B/B/C/D/_/vcbbcd.jpg

[fob]

208. It's not pulling the globe into the abyss, the globe is breaking free

of the "flat earth". The "globe" is the same pattern of the flat background and has broken free of the flat part leaving a tear where it once joined the flat part and it's only ties to the flat part are some remaining threads that have yet to break. The "book" to the left is ???

[skids]

240. Very good interperatation.

Another angle to consider, and a persuasive one at that.

[intheflow]

153. human survival, please look at this link

(also posted above in my reply to skids): http://www.getunderground.com/underground/galleries/gallery.cfm?Album_ID=353

The last reader comment (dated 2/12/05)at the bottom of the page is this:

Is this one of your works? http://members.aol.com/jdg17/myhomepage/personal.html If so, someone is using it without your permission, I would assume. If it isn't your work, would anyone happen to know who's it is?

Clever Moniker
02.12.2005

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So it appears we're not the only people working on this!

[merh]

216. LOL - I love the plushies!

Thanks for the heads up on the "inevitable" image. Do you know if wolf zr2 posts in the artist forum?

[skids]

245. I don't know about DU...

...but some of his/her other work is here:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.customize.org/details/34952&h=300&w=400&sz=18&tbnid=ppgps_xR6s4J:&tbnh=90&tbnw=120&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwolf%2Bzr2%26svnum%3D100%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

...I'm not an AOL user or I'd just IM and ask...

[burn the bush]

231. I think the red looks like stitches made of the string around the earth.

The red lines appear to kind of line up to me like the earth is going to be sewn into this hole which is eye shaped, or perhaps vaginal shaped. When attempting to blow up the little rectangular area, it looks like foi and HI?N.

[skids]

242. Interesting...

I note the "stitching" strokes were allowed to drip by the artist, though. I don't know if I yet buy your yarn (pun intended) but it is certainly a valid and promising way to look at it. :-)

[AuntPatsy]

45. There is definately a resemblence, the nose took me a bit

longer but the second picture up from the bottom shows how the lips could be perceived to be thinner at a different angle than the first which shows fuller lips on the young James Guckert.

The nose appears right and to be honest, the expression on both faces on the bottom are quite remarkable in that intense thinking about other things look..

I think it could be a match or if not, definately a relative...

[thjay]

48. Look at the relationship between the eyes and lips

The left eye looks closer to the lips than the right eye. This doesn't match current pictures. Also the distance between his lips and chin is greater in the current photos. I guess this could be part of the aging process. I have a picture but I don't know how to show it in the message.

[AuntPatsy]

55. Well, I personally look different in a lot of pictures, the angle

of the shot can show slight differences in size and such..I don't know myself how to put in pictures. Though many on here could do it for you if you send it to them.

[burn the bush]

171. I think one thing that we can say about both Gannon and this boy Guckert

is that they are both chamelians. They both look different in almost every picture they take.

[mordarlar]

70. if you sign on to photobucket you can download photos to an online album

then you copy and paste the IMG text below the photo. : )

Let me know if this works for ya.

[AuntPatsy]

47. I tried a bit of searching myself but did not come up with much

more than was already posted. But I thought this bloggers way of handling this story rather cute..here's an incerpt..I appologize if this was too much that I put in here.

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2005/02/the_truth_is_ou.html

Gannon? A well-endowed red herring. Let's just say "gay escort Repugnican journalist" makes a very distracting cover when your real gig is, say -- pool cleaner for a certain Mr. and Mrs. "Joe Wilson" of Alexandria, VA. Shocked? Don't be. Plame and Wilson have been on the Rove payroll for years. Karl brilliantly used them to nail three birds with two undercover stones: take progressives' money, discredit them, and get some high-impact product placement for the Duncan Hines cartel.

Those CBS conveniently forged, yet entirely accurate documents? Obviously the handiwork of Karl's West Wing elves. But if you think "Gannon" was the conduit to Mapes you are barking up the wrong homo, my friend. Karl has more than a few panicked moles inside Black Rock hoping to throw you off the scent. Let's just say you may want to start "connecting the Dotties," because the plot is about to thicken like a TANG-y sweet salad dressing. Remember: the truth is out there. Buried below a modern 64,000 square foot plant in Duncan, Nebraska.

Seeing a pattern? Rule #1 in the Rove Matrix is careful who you trust. That website with the impeccable progressive credentials could easily be a Rove / GOPig front operation -- draining millions of dollars from credulous liberal dupes and throwing it away on doomed campaigns. If your instincts tell you someone to trust somebody, then run. He's probably a plant, and the voices could be from Rove's mind control drones.

Shhh! Did you just hear that?

This meeting is getting too dangerous -- too dangerous for both of us. Here, take this. If Rove's operative get hold of you, swallow it. It will help you maintain your cover as just another FauxNews brainwashed sheeple.

Now get out of here you magnificent, foolhardy bastard. And remember -- like all communiques of the Underground Reality-Based Resistance, this conversation never happened.

THIS BLOGPOST WILL SELF-DESTRUCT IN 5 MINUTES

[earth mom]

167. Very interesting...

Thanks for the post. It is worth clicking the link to read as there are several intriguing links. I'd say that this is something we REALLY need to think about...because with Rove, nothing is as it seems. All along I've had the uneasy feeling that the Gannon story is actually something Rove & Co have up their sleeve that will turn around and bite us all in the ass!

Who is Gannon? Is he 2 different operatives? Could the two-Guckert & Gosch be related? As in Guckert as a 47 year old long lost older brother/cousin to the the 32 year old Gosch? Questions, Questions, Questions!

But really, honestly, the MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IS: WHY?!

WHY did Rove or whoever allow Gannon in the WH given the homophobia/moral values bullshit that is rampant these days? It doesn't make sense! I don't trust those f-ers for one minute. I can't help but feel like we're all being played every which way we turn!

EDITED TO ADD:
Yes, I'm getting frustrated with all of this....that appears to lead No Where. That said...my motto is still: NGU: NEVER GIVE UP!

[s-cubed]

197. This was histerical! Did you follow the links?

The first one, citizin investigator, posts back to DU. Very funny.

[Borgnine]

54. Another comparison attempt.

I messed up the glasses royally, so if anyone can do this better, please help out.

[EFerrari]

68. You did a good job. And, it's impossible to tell, imo. n/t

[kk897]

139. Very good job!

I'll weigh in, if no one minds. Borgnine's side-by-side demonstrates that the underwear photo of *someone* is very very close to the high school glasses picture.

However, I do believe that the guy in catgirl's sig line (taken from one of his interviews; not sure if it's the Anderson or Blitzer interview) is NOT the same guy.

I know people were kind of frowning upon the Lee Harvey Oswald reference, but I looked at it closely. I think the point isn't that G/G has some sort of actual connection to Oswald, but that it is entirely possible a similar method of "sheep dipping" (or is that "rat fucking"? I get my spook terms mixed up) was used for G/G. To what end? I doubt it was to place a reporter with softball questions in Bush's White House. As I said when the story first broke, it wouldn't surprise me to see G/G with a rifle in his hand and a copy of Catcher in the Rye in his pocket being led away in handcuffs. But the bloggers interfered. They made Gannon a "star" and put him WAY in the public eye and found out a WHOLE lot about him. Hm, wonder why bloggers are getting dragged through the mud in the media just now?

So I think that perhaps there really were or are two people: Jeff Gannon and Jim Guckert. Their lives intertwined in odd ways. Jeff becomes Jim when necessary, like, say, when trying to obtain a press pass. This is similar to the "Lee/Harvey" dyad ONLY in method or pattern. But it is very instructive to read that LHO article someone posted earlier (sorry, forget who).

[mordarlar]

200. Thank you. That was exactly the point.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3231526&mesg_id=3231780&page=

[Dookus]

58. I think the high school pics look just like Gannon/Guckert

I'd easily believe they're the same person. And if they are, it puts the lie to the idea that Gannon is Gosch, unless Gosch was a Senior in High School a few years before he was kidnapped at age 12.

[EFerrari]

65. You may be right. So, where does that leave Gannon? n/t

[Dookus]

67. What do you mean?

[EFerrari]

69. I mean nothing is unscripted in this White House.

So, how do we account for Gannon?

Just asking, Dookus.

[Dookus]

71. oh, I don't know...

I suspect he knew somebody who knew somebody. Or he knew somebody himself. There's no evidence yet.

But I think the real answer is likely to be a lot less sensational than some folk here imagine.

[EFerrari]

79. My hope is you are right and I am wrong.

There is a lot going on here, and in the end, what I hope doesn't matter.

So, knowing somebody who knows someone is great, the way things work -- unless children are being exploited, lives are being f*cked up but good.

At that point, "live and let live" is no longer an option.

I'd be very happy to go prune a rose bush if we could lay to rest the problem of children are being stolen and abused. Jeff Gannon or whoever can just rant his head off and parley this into a career. More power to him.

But, in the end, this is not about him. It's about power, criminality and secrecy. And I'll be damned before I walk away from that.

[Dookus]

84. but is there really

a lot going on? All I've seen so far is a fun, slightly salacious story that goes no higher than the White House Press Secretary, and likely not even that high.

The problem is people are making leaps that Evel Knievel would envy. They are not convincing. The fact that people raise many questions is not evidence that something nefarious is going on, especially when those points are easily debunked.

[EFerrari]

96. I love the Knievel ref!

(Am about to stop for tonight)

I don't have a clear answer for you, sorry. Am trying to wade through the corruption just to get a toe hold on "real".

Mr. Gannon was put in our faces for a reason. I'm just trying to understand what that was about.

[Dookus]

97. I certainly understand

the cynicism behind the idea that there's something deliberate about Gannon, but I don't subscribe to it.

We are not dealing with evil geniuses here. We're dealing with a wide and varied collection of people, some smarter than others. The White House, while having increased its control over the Press Corps, still doesn't have absolute control.

Hanlon's razor says "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity".

[EFerrari]

100. Again, I hope you're right! Falling over for the night. n/t

[merh]

127. Why do you have such a problem with our researching gannon

from a different perspective. Why do you find yourself compelled to ridicule or demean our efforts? If you don't like the subject then you can stay out and not be bothered with it.

We have not added this to the home page, we aren't trying to publish it as a DU exclusive, we are just pondering possibilities.

I see differences in the faces of the HS guckert and bulldog. That is my opinion. You have yours, fine. I am not ridiculing you or putting you down in any way, but you insist on coming here and acting like our discussion of this angel has undermined the investigation into Gannon. I have news for you -- we ain't the media, we ain't the FBI, SS or CIA. We are just a bunch of curious folks.

Why is that such a problem for you?

[Dookus]

223. Why do you have a problem

with people who disagree with your conclusions?

It's a public discussion board. If my presence offends you, go register "GuckertIsTheLindberghBaby.com" and start your own forum.

The fact is, the vast majority of DUers think the tinfoil nuttiness in these threads is ridiculous. I'm one of the few who venture in to say so.

[Catherine Vincent]

229. "I'm one of the few who venture in to say so."

And you do a very good job of that too.

[Name removed]

233. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

244. I don't get it

I haven't told anyone to shut up or anything like it. Yet you are telling ME to butt out, but somehow that makes ME the thought-police? You don't see the irony in that?

[fooj]

86. This is about so much more than politics...it's about our humanity.

So much for sleep, huh? Get a chance to read my pm?

[Dookus]

89. No

absent any evidence that there's ANY inkling of pedophilia in this case, it's still just political scandal, and a minor one at that.

If you take a deep breath, step back, and look at the evidence, you'll see there is none. There are only giant leaps and tenuous connections that appear to form a web. But if every strand of the web is unsound, is there really a web?

[EFerrari]

98. As I recall, Dookus, you believed these threads sprung from

the Madsen article. They didn't. You can check that to your own satisfaction.

And for your larger question, it IS a political scandal. And as far as I can see, has nothing to do with being gay. And may involve a pediophilia ring.

This has been a source of misunderstanding -- that if "gannon" is gay, well, pediophilia. NOT SO. If you go to the very first thread, you'll see instead that this man evoked the memory of a kidnapped child.

On edit: There was no leap from being gay to the other. I was, frankly, flabbergasted when that connection was made.

In any case, I hope we can be more careful. Because there's a lot to do.

:)

[Dookus]

101. The very first time I saw the link

between Gannon and the Lincoln scandal was when Madsen wrote about it on February 18th. The speculation ran from there.

If you have a different timeline, I'd be curious to see it.

I maintain that Madsen's connection was based on a link in his mind, either conciously or subconsciously, between homosexuality and pedophila.

Madsen wrote a few articles on the subject. I believe the first one he wrote was on Feb. 18th.

[EFerrari]

104. I won't go to bat for Madsen. I don't know him and don't

think he's very careful. He seems keenly intuitive but his claims just are way too large.

On edit: Not to mention, as offensive as possible.

The first time this Gosch/Gannon question came up here was when Andy asked it, on 2/19. And it was his gut feeling, not some take off on anything else. We just started looking at snapshots.

If the conversation had gone the way you think it did, I would have been out of it immediately. Or done my best to shut it down.

[Dookus]

106. I see

there was a Madsen link betwen Gannon and Lawrence King on the 18th. I'd be surprised if the Gannon/Gosch link was entirely independent of that.

I don't accuse Andy of equating pedophilia with homosexuality, but I think Madsen did, and Andy probably just took it a little further, certainly without malice.

[EFerrari]

109. Remember independent thinking?

I don't know about Andy, and wouldn't disrespect him by speculating.

But he started his thread on the 19th because he'd been following this missing kid for years.

If you have any doubts about this, read through the threads.

The good news, imho, is that Du is not chock full of bigots. But I certainly see the concern, fwiw.

[Dookus]

111. I did

read the threads. In fact, all the early madsen threads were deleted because they were bigoted. Eventually, the tide became overwhelming and these wrinkles threads were allowed to stand.

I have read all the threads. There is NO link between Gannon and Gosch, beyond the wild imaginations of bloggers.

Whatever became of the post a few nights ago where somebody affirmed that Noreen Gosch had ID'd her son? It caused quite an uproar here. That's my problem - somebody, somewhere, on the internet claims something, and people here get the vapors.

This is also why I posted a thread the other night called "In praise of real journalists". I hate the idea that anybody with a keyboard and broadband can pretend to be a journalist. I know journalists. There's training and education and experience and ethics that go into being a journalist. Posting one's random thoughts on the internet doesn't qualify.

[EFerrari]

173. That's a different issue.

I don't know anyone here who is claiming to be a journalist?

Except Mr. Gannon. Whose writings as we've seen have been written by at least three people, two of whom may be a team.

It's unfortunate that these threads have offended you. I don't believe anyone meant to give offense. And as a former instructor, I can assure you that random thoughts often turn out to be the most valuable ones.

[burn the bush]

224. I may have subconsciously connected call boy with pedophilia

as soon as the gannon hooker thing came out. I already had heard about the Franklin coverup and have always suspected the shrubies of deviate sexual practices like pedophilia, rape, and other CONTROL based sexual activities.

My subconscious picks up a bit of info here and a bit there. I cannot always tell you what was picked up where to come to my "intuitive" or subconsious opinion. But it puts all the bits together and gives me those gut hunches or whatever.

I understand that my gut feelings mean nothing in reality and could be based on incorrectly perceived bits of info.

I respect your opinion and think that you are most likely right about this line of enquiry in these threads. The thing I think is greatest about DU though is that we can go off as far as we want one way or another, but whatever is the truth will eventually be the conclusion of the majority of us. There will always be some who will hold on to the original theory. Thats great though coz it keeps open the posibility that we missed the truth and those few holders on were right all along.

[fooj]

213. After taking that suggested "deep breath" I've stumbled across a FACT...

The SS has DELIBERATELY lied about Gannon and his WH Press Access. They claim that there was NO DEVIATION from standard procedures. Bullshit! BTW- Gannon had a hard pass- not a day pass. Peace.

[fooj]

91. I'm following you, Dookus. But what we know about Gannon and

his behavior patterns suggest that if it was "less sensational" his big mouth would have already gotten that story out there. He's a real round-about talker, isn't he? Hell, we know he knows people...Biden, for instance. Or so he claims. After the reference-SILENCE. Deafening silence. I need some sleep. Take care. Peace.

[Dookus]

93. well

if one presumes Guckert is somebody more important than he really is, one might read too much into his every sentence.

But consider the possibility that he's just an average schlub with a big dick who made some money using it, and he's also a conservative. He may have gotten a job at Talon through his previous connections (in fact, the quality of his writing would indicate that he didn't earn his position on merit), but that's still a far cry from demonstrating he was fucking Karl Rove, or that he's a missing boy 10 years his junior.

I'm curious as hell to know how he got the job. I also think claims that he's the Gosch boy are, if not in fact, at least serve the same purpose as deliberate disinformation. They will surely be used to discredit any real findings in this case.

[EFerrari]

107. Got it,

You're right, I think, in this climate.

Our task is to make asking questions a good thing again. It won't be easy.

[St. Benedict]

132. An average schlub...

I think it is worth remembering some of the FACTS of recent events, before you JUMP to the conclusion that Gannon is an average schlub.

FACT: 4 people are dead since the Gannon scandal broke, all deaths under very suspicious circumstances. Two are execution style murders, the other two are possible murders.

FACT: All of the deaths have curious links to Jeff Gannon (aka James Guckert).

The mere fact of people ending up dead relating to Gannon's outing/exposure is enough to warrant suspicion that he is much more than an average schlub with a problem with sex addiction.

[Dookus]

220. Facts?

thousands of people have died since February. You have to provide some sort of LINK between their deaths and Gannon before you can be taken seriously.

Who are your four dead, and how do you link them to Gannon?

[mordarlar]

81. Good times in the LOUNGE.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2789253

[New Earth]

113. ha.

not really funny :eyes:

[New Earth]

114. i don't get it

in some ways he looks like Gannon, in some ways he doesn't. but then in the second to last pic (of him alone), it looks like Gosch if he were older!!! WTF?

what does everyone think of these? what led to this high school yearbook anyway? is this where Gannon says he went to school?

[Domitan]

115. Great find! Now this looks like a young Gannon/Guckert

I'm quite keen at face recognition. I've met a number of adults that I had not seen since I was a child. Their face registered loudly with me. At first, my brain stirred as I tried to figure out how I knew them. When I approached them, my recognition was confirmed!

With those high school pictures, they really leap out to me as a young J Gannon/Guckert. The Gosch pictures never did that for me.

That being said, I still believe that Gannon/Guckert was involved in something very shifty and scandalous for the White House Administration.

[nonny]

116. Help me understand...............

I am so confused right now.

It starts with I don't always know what picture or what name someone is referring to.
If we could have a post of thumbnails -- identified by number and a list of names identified other than just gannon/guckert/gosch/
This way we would all be speaking the same language.
And then we could list the verified facts about each name.

One observation I made with the Gosch as paperboy photo and the smiling (Gosch?) is that they both had very red noses. (the WH reporter does not. But his nose looks so straight and perfect -- has it been altered?

Other things I'm very confused about..........
Are you considering the "everyone has a double, somewhere" theory?
or..........
Something creepy like the Boys from Brazil movie (1978)?

And a thought about the "inevitable" photo on JDG17 home page AOL---
It looks like someone took a photo of this painting hanging on the wall. Look at the uneven border.

Maybe we could group together the photos that resemble the gosch child and another group that look like the WH reporter.
Is the male escort yet another?

[libertypirate]

163. the uneven border... Could be part of the abstraction...

I also thought that but there are other reasons why the border could be uneven. Such as perspective.

[mordarlar]

203. I understand the everyone has a double thing. I get stopped often

as i apparently resemble an actress. The odd thing about this is that a name may match a double with a different birth date and THE SAME NAME. I think a compilation of all the pics we have with a description is a WONDERFUL idea.

[Moosepoop]

122. Gabe Caggiano pics.... finally

Thanks to all who gave advice on posting pictures here, and thanks libertypirate, for your offer to post them for me if I can't figure it out. I may have to take you up on that yet, depending on how this goes.

I left for work at my 2nd shift job right after I posted my thoughts on Gabe Caggiano, so I didn't see the replies till this morning. I've got an account with photobucket now, have the pics there, and am about to try putting them up here.

They are from the same picture strip that cat_girl25 put up. I cropped and sized them the best I could with the "My Pictures" program on my computer. They are very grainy and unclear... I'm hoping someone with Photoshop or something like that can perhaps resize them and clean them up or enhance them for better comparison to more recent J/G pictures.

Anyway, here goes....





&action=view>
&action=view>
&action=view>
&action=view>
&action=view>
&action=view>

P.S. The picture of Jeff Gannon with the ballcap has been "flipped" by me in order to show his face at the same basic angle as the "Gabe" ones. So that's really the right side of his face in that pic, not his left.
Sorry for the size discrepancies between the pics, it was the best I could do. The likeness is more apparent when viewed at the same sizes.

[intheflow]

125. I don't see the similarity at all. n/t

[Moosepoop]

134. I know, the similarities don't show up well here...

but by enlarging the different photos enough to really focus on the main features, I still see a strong resemblance. It's in the nose, the mouth, the jaw, the cheekbones, the eye area (though the eyebrows are too grainy in the b&w pics to see well), and the ear.
Imagine Gabe with his head shaved, or J/G with the same hairdo.
But as I said originally, I may just be seeing things.

[Ferry Fey]

123. Armstrong Williams

The point to not lose sight of is that of some half dozen people so far identified in the media as having been given money or special favors to push Bush administration propaganda as news, two of them have a gay subtext. That's a pretty high percentage.

It's not just a gay subtext, but the considerable hypocrisy, especially given the Republican Party's positions on gay issues. Not just Gannon, but Armstrong Williams.

"The conservative columnist who was fired after accepting $240,000 to promote Bush’s ‘No Child Left Behind’ law rebuked the NAACP for “charges of sexual harassment and economic improprieties” after settling a sexual harassment suit himself, RAW STORY has learned.

-snip-

In 1997, Williams was sued in a massive $200,000 50-charge sexual harassment suit for repeatedly kissing his once male trainer Stephen Gregory who he had promoted repeatedly into his talk-show staff. Gregory claimed Williams had also grabbed his buttocks and genitals and climbed into bed with him on business trips. After rebuffing him, Gregory alleged, the pundit retaliated by reducing his pay and subsequently firing him.

At the time, the Williams had just teased an explosive quote from then-Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott who said that gays should be treated like those who have a problem with “alcohol … or sex addiction … or kleptomaniacs.”

Williams roundly supported this view.

-snip-

Williams failed to get the suit dismissed in 1998. His once-trainer presented an affidavit from a man who claimed Armstrong propositioned him in 1996 and also had testimony from an ex-intern who said he had brushed off Williams’ advances his first day on the job."

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=536

The case was settled out of court in 1999.

That Paul Bishop was arrested recently and brings the whole child prostitution connected with government officials issue back in the news is a fact, not speculation.

That Hunter Thompson committed suicide with his wife on the phone with him and his 6 year old grandson playing in the next room hours after the Gosch question was raised is a fact, not speculation.






Edited for typos

[intheflow]

124. OK, I'm convinced WH Guckert is HS Guckert.

So I'm out of these threads for the most part (although I can tell the addiction is going to be hard to give up). I'll check back to see if anything new arises, and will add new wrinkles to the Demopedia file. If I get Must_B_Free's permission, I'll add the fade photos he posted in thread 14 (post #229) to the Demopedia entry as well.

Good luck as you continue your digging. Just because I don't think the connection exists to Gosch directly doesn't mean I've given up thinking there's something fishy in the whole Gannon incident. I mean, how does one go from HS class officer to prostitute to member of the WH press corp? Still so many unanswered questions!

[merh]

147. The fade photos are not accurate - they fail to show the distinctions

between the 2 individuals and it appears as if there are no distinctions.

The lips are the biggest inaccuracy - the HS JDG has full lips, both top and bottom - WH JDG does not - actually, one of his most obvious features is barely a top lip. The eyes have differences too.

[intheflow]

158. They are as compelling to me as nonny's fades.

Sorry, merh. I don't think you're ever going to convince me of the multiple people theory relating to Guckert. I thik he is who he says he is. You know, a life of prostitution, and probably drugs and perhaps political intrigue will change a person over 30 years, and those changes will be reflected in their face.

There's also a difference in "professional" faces and photos of people in pre-professional stages of life. The face we see in his web sites (both porno and journalistic) show different professional faces, but I still think they are the same face.

But, you know... whatever. I won't be working on this so much, but will put my energies into other avenues. All avenues must be explored fully, so my shifting focus shouldn't be a concern to you. This avenue has been explored to my satisfaction, but that's not meant to discourage your further exploration, my friend. And if you find a provable connection between Guckert and Gosch, or proof of mltiple identities or people, I will gladly admit I was wrong and give you all a big toast for your perserverance.

:toast:

[merh]

162. I am not promoting any theory - I am telling you that the images

differ and how they differ. The fade in must-be-free's version are deceptive, it doesn't properly make the distinction of the lips - lips don't change over the year the way they differ in the two photos. Full bottom and top lips do not become thin top lips with age.

You go search what you want and work on what you need, I am not trying to persuade you differently. I am just sharing my opinion with you and that is the faces are not the same. You don't change a persons eyes and lips with age the way they differ in these photos. Of course, this is my opinion.

[understandinglife]

179. I agree with your opinion and I also, after taking a break, and..

..then studying the eyes in all the available photos of "Gannon" and the high-schooler, Jim Guckert, do not think they are the same people.

Close. Close enough to lend credence to the speculation that we may have a "Guckert/Gannon/Gosch" duo -- a team.

But, what is troubling is the lack of family, friends, associates for one member of that team -- Jim Guckert -- the one who should have oodles of them.

And, an obviously reasonable absence of friends and associates for the other -- Johnny Gosch. Because, if Johnny is alive, most of the folk who 'know' him are not likely to be talkative.

So, we have a close likeness to "Gannon" of someone who should have lots of folk being interviewed by the press, chatting about what a fun guy he was on the soccer team, what a neat school leader he was, what a nice son, boyfriend, ......., he is -- we have nada of that (other than one or two "TKE frat brothers" and I still can't find the transcripts, names and other pertinent info on who those two are and what they said -- anyone got links??).

And, we have someone with an even closer likeness to "Gannon" whose mother has expressed, rightly, considerable caution about identifying him as her son, Johnny Gosch.

I think it reasonable to speculate that high-schooler Jim Guckert is either dead or a partner with Johnny Gosch.

[fooj]

194. We are on the same team.

Peace.

[libertypirate]

206. This isn't about team play....

This is about finding the correct information....

We all loose when we are wrong!

[fooj]

217. Point taken. Perhaps I should have phrased it differently...

What I meant to say is that I subscribe to a particular line of reasoning...
Thanks for pointing it out! Peace.

[Gelliebeans]

169. I tend to agree with you

in the flow, although I think Guckert's story hasn't been completely told I am inclined to believe that Guckert is Gannon.

I am going to continue to dig on Guckert's whereabouts since high school.

I will watch this thread everyday like I have been.

I hope I am wrong but for me personally the Gosch theory has been put to bed now.

Thanks everyone for the great work!
gb
:toast:

[mordarlar]

207. What is your opinion of the "second" Guckert showing up in West Chester?

This is in no way argumentative. I just want to understand.



This J D Guckert had a 1970 birth date drivers license. The pic does not look like Gannon IMO. And this person was working in the same general local as the the TEKE frat.

[Catherine Vincent]

135. Well I slept on it.

I'm still leaning that Gannon is Guckert in the high school pics. Some of those pics you can't tell but the one where's he's sitting next to the chick in the glasses was the kicker for me. I have been looking at pictures of Gannon for the last month....although some of them look like different people but that's another topic. I gotta tell ya that one high school pic really did it for me. But...I could be wrong.:-)

[intheflow]

140. For me it's the picture of him sitting on the steps with his mouth open.

Something about the tilt of the head and the shape of the mouth reminds me of the video where he's asking "the question" to Bush. Kind of an arrogance... I dunno, can't explain it. It just looks like Gannon when he asked that question.

:shrug:

[St. Benedict]

137. Gabe Caggiano

I am posting this again because no one has given their thoughts, or responded to a request for a copy of The Sentinel if there are those living in the D.C. area:


From Caggiano's column of yesterday, March 8th:

"Gannon has hired a lawyer and is choosing his words carefully and is indicating he may take legal action against those he claimed slandered or libeled him. So far, he hasn't said yet whom he will sue.

"I'm not going away, Gabe, as I have much to contribute. I have been through the crucible and am still standing. I'm tough and I'll be back. Look for an announcement soon."


Does anyone else find it odd that after hiring a lawyer, Gannon/Gosch speaks not through his attorney, but speaks - repeatedly - to Caggiano? And of all the journalists in the world he could talk to - why choose Caggiano?

Does anyone live in the D.C. area and have a copy of The Sentinel? Is there a picture of Gabe Caggiano with his column in the paper?

ALSO,

Check this out:

http://www.readyformedia.com/anne.htm

It is a company called Ready For Media, that lists Caggiano employed as a "teacher."

"Gabe Caggiano has most recently been an on-air reporter for Fox 11 News in Los Angeles. Prior to coming to California, Gabe was the political reporter for Fox News in Austin, Texas covering the State Capital and Texas Governor George W. Bush. Previously, Gabe covered two New Hampshire primaries and the Gulf War for NBC News with Tom Brokaw."

"READY FOR MEDIA is the West Coast’s oldest and most experienced communications firm. For more than 20 years, READY FOR MEDIA has coached thousands of corporate executives, celebrity spokespeople, authors, doctors, lawyers and many others to be concise, credible and compelling.

Let our experienced business, financial, technical and consumer journalists use video feedback and constructive critique to show spokespeople the game, teach them the rules and justify their time to practice in our studio, at the computer or on location, worldwide."

Surely, they must have a photo?

And, if you go to IMDB.com, you will find Gabe Caggiano appeared in two jobs in 1994: a movie called "Radioland Murders" written by George Lucas (hmmm....murder at Princess Leia's house...) and an episode of "Matlock." In order to work those jobs he had to be a SAG member and have a headshot, so there should be a photo of him somewhere.

I called The Screen Actors Guild today. It has him listed in their database as a member, but with no current agent listed nor current contact number.

Perhaps I need to rent "Radioland Murders" and look at Cop #2.

P.S. The available Gabe Caggiano pictures that have been posted are better understood when viewed with their captions, here:

http://weeklywire.com/ww/08-11-97/austin_pols_feature2.html

[Moosepoop]

160. That Caggiano column wasn't from yesterday

It was from February 24, titled "Gannon says he's really no Michelangelo". The Sentinel's webpage changes the date at the top of each article to the current date, but Google cached the screenshot of this article on 2/24.

Gabe's other article on J/G was titled "Gannon becomes grist for the media mill" and was cached on 2/28.

About the bio on Ready for Media... this outfit is essentially a media consulting firm, catering to celebrities and corporate excutives, among others. They prepare people for addressing the media.
This was one of the similarities between Gabe and J/G -- Gabe has referred to his time there as being a "media consultant", and J/G has made reference to having been a "management consultant".
Ready for Media fits both descriptions, teaching "management" -- that is, corporate executives -- the skills to handle the media.

I'm also planning on renting Radioland Murders to look for Cop #2, or find some Matlock fan who may have taped episode 9-3, "The Dare", from 1994 in order to watch the guy playing Jim McCoy.

Any Matlock fans out there??

[St. Benedict]

184. Gabe Caggiano's Sentinel columns...

I think it is even more suspicious that Caggiano has written TWO columns on Gannon. So, if one was printed on 2-24 and the other was on 3-3, I ask again...

Does anyone have a copy of these issues to see if there is a publicity photo of Caggiano attached to his columns?

Seriously, how is he getting all of these "interviews" with Gannon?

[libertypirate]

142. To be honest to the pictures you must look at what is different...

the similarities can fool you but the differences won't...

We are a strong fill in the blank visualizing creature, if we look for what is similar we might tend to see what we want to...

Instead focus on what is different about them.

The differences I see

eyes are close but no cigar...

Gannon's bottom lip looks bigger and his upper does not look as defined as the all American Guckert.

[yodermon]

146. They are the same.

Here's what did it for me. Look at this:

then compare the distances between chin-cleft & lower lip, upper lip & tip of nose, and length of nose.

The eyes look different, and the lips are a different shape, but those things can change over time. Face proportions don't.

[useyourhead]

161. A little help, please...

Hi - first time poster, long time reader.
I've been following these Gannon threads from the beginning, but I'm still not clear what H.S. yearbook this is? What school, and is it only for one year? The picture used for comparison here by yodermon is interesting, but even the yearbook pics vary wildly. Why is he not wearing glasses in this one, the hair is different than the "muttonchop sideburns" pic., no sideburns in this one, etc. -
and what about the mark on Gannon's cheek that seemed to match perfectly the one on the pic of Gosch? Any thoughts?

[intheflow]

165. I wear both contacts and glasses.

It depends how I feel in the morning which I wear on any given day. This has been true since I first got contacts in HS. So that can be the glasses difference.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[mordarlar]

210. The yearbook is called the Hilacon 1974 and 74. It is of Conneaut LakeHS

[merh]

202. A person with thick lips do not have their facial features change to

thin lips with time. Facial proportions are not facial features that are primary to identification, though they may be useful and one of the features to consider. The shape of the eyes and their structure, the type of lips, these are features that stay constant with age.

[St. Benedict]

148. JD Guckert with 1970 birthdate

Mordarlar wrote:

"A J. D. Guckert was in West Chester with a drivers license that had a 1970 birth date. It is not a great pic but it looks VERY LITTLE like this Guckert. So we have SOMEONE (or two people) using TWO different birthdates. One of the birthdates is consistent with Gosch. This younger dated person worked in an auto-body shop. Just like Gannon claimed to in his past. A Jeff Guckert also 1970 grew up only miles from the high school, from which the photos were seen today. Some have traced him to a financial services job. Again Gannon claimed to have this in his past."

All of this only gives credence to the fact that Gannon could in fact be Johnny Gosch.

FACT: The photos of himself (both face and body) that Gannon put up on his various porn websites and his AOL profile (which is still up) are CLEARLY not that of a 47 year-old man. However, they do look like the body of a 35 year-old man, who exercises A LOT. The man on Anderson Cooper, and in the WH Press Room, is NOT 47 years old.

FACT: On his AOL Hometown profile, Gannon links to wepainttrucks, an autobody business.

FACT: Gannon uses aliases. He has admitted to this. Perhaps he is using a COMBINATION of aliases of people with similar names and appearances, but different ages, to further cover his trail. Personally, I think his choice of the name "Jeff Gannon" as an alias is one fact that lends credibility to his being Johnny Gosch, because it ties to closely to the James Gannon of the Des Moines Register.

[kk897]

155. Two guys... (a repost from above, in case anyone missed it)

...since, I am sure, you all are waiting on tenterhooks for me to give you my vaunted opinions about these latest developments. :silly: (seriously, though, I did think my original subject line made it sound just like a pat on the back, and I kind of wanted a little input... or not... up to you guys, or not) :silly: I'm just in that kind of mood this morning. Anyhoo:

I'll weigh in, if no one minds. Borgnine's side-by-side demonstrates that the underwear photo of *someone* is very very close to the high school glasses picture.

However, I do believe that the guy in catgirl's sig line (taken from one of his interviews; not sure if it's the Anderson or Blitzer interview) is NOT the same guy.

I know people were kind of frowning upon the Lee Harvey Oswald reference, but I looked at it closely. I think the point isn't that G/G has some sort of actual connection to Oswald, but that it is entirely possible a similar method of "sheep dipping" (or is that "rat fucking"? I get my spook terms mixed up) was used for G/G. To what end? I doubt it was to place a reporter with softball questions in Bush's White House. As I said when the story first broke, it wouldn't surprise me to see G/G with a rifle in his hand and a copy of Catcher in the Rye in his pocket being led away in handcuffs. But the bloggers interfered. They made Gannon a "star" and put him WAY in the public eye and found out a WHOLE lot about him. Hm, wonder why bloggers are getting dragged through the mud in the media just now?

So I think that perhaps there really were or are two people: Jeff Gannon and Jim Guckert. Their lives intertwined in odd ways. Jeff becomes Jim when necessary, like, say, when trying to obtain a press pass. This is similar to the "Lee/Harvey" dyad ONLY in method or pattern. But it is very instructive to read that LHO article someone posted earlier (sorry, forget who).

[s-cubed]

177. I don't believe the HS guckert is the same one as

gannon. The eyes to me are completely different. Gannon's eyes are narrow (top to bottom), and very deep set. Guckert's eyes are much rounder, open, not deep set at all.

I do think that we have an Oswald situation here: with at lease two guckerts, &maybe more than one gannon, and who knows how many otherr names have been used.

Somewhere, perhaps in the Franklin coverup material, Gosch was called the chameleon. Actors can change their appearance dramatically, often with little makeup. Perhaps this is a skill taught to those who are "assets". The "smiling" gannon, who still has his hair, though thinning, looks a lot like the age progressed gosch. These were the two pictures nonny used in her fade from one to the other. But if you spread all the known gannon pictures out together, just as the Oswald pictures were collected, I'm not sure you could be certain there is only one gannon.

This puzzle is a doozie, isn't it? I'm afraid that unless we can find both of the j guckerts (1957 and 1970) and see them in person we may never settle this.

[understandinglife]

182. "But the bloggers interfered....." is a bit problematic. Gannon actively..

...taunted folk to boost his ranking on the DU 'idiot conservative' score board. He was a full participant in the early moments, after his 26 Jan 2005 question to Bu$h, in becoming as visible as possible.

However, if you check #179, you'll see that I think we may have more than one person wearing the "Gannon" nametag.

Peace.

[Jose Diablo]

170. Ya know

the 1975 yearbook photos do indeed look like Gannon/Guckert, but like you say, the Gannon underpants photo does not look like a 47 year old man. At least I think so.

I did go back to classmates and checked for a guckert graduating in 87/88 in both the same hs as guckert '75 and also every hs in west chester (there is a bunch of them). Nada, zilch. It doesn't mean a guckert didn't grad in 87/88 from those schools, only there was nobody at those schools has signed up at classmates dot com.

Now with this said, a wider search for guckert from 87/88 could be run on say reunion dot com and maybe we could find a JD Guckert that was born in 1970, like johnny that had graduated someplace.

But even so, what would all this prove? If the 75 guckert photos showed conclusively that our gannon/guckert was not the same, then we have pretty good evidence guckert is not gannon's real name.

The only way I see to find out who gannon really is, if he is not guckert, is to have his prints and run them through the fbi data base. I doubt gannon/guckert will cooperate though. Can anybody get this guy in a bar and get a glass he held for prints? <chuckle> Sounds like we should send Bond for this task.

Edit: I will add one more thing. I have a set of Pro CD ROM's from 96/97 that contain all the listed telephone numbers and addresses in the US and Canada. If somebody wants me to run Guckert for say PA and send them a txt file of every guckert listed just PM me. I am not going to check out the leads myself because I think it will take gannon/guckert himself, or his mother to come out and say so also before the pedophile linkage will get legs. IOW, I am wondering if this is a set-up to spread disinformation as a diversion from another issue that is still not known.

Edit once more: Think about this. Suppose Gannon is little Johnny and he was abducted when 12 and turned into a sex slave. How would you feel if all that was about to be published and again you would be humiliated. I think that would be enough to push anybody into a nervious breakdown. Even our worst enemies do not deserve that. Let sleeping dogs lay. There is enough with the other stuff to make a big stink.

[loritooker]

172. It is possible that the "underpants photo" is 5-plus years old.. n/t

[EFerrari]

187. I see that this whole line of inquiry is full of potential pitfalls

and for myself, have in no way ruled out that the g/g/g stuff was planted , not for us necessarily, but for anyone who would bring up pedophilia to embarrass the White House.

As far as discrediting the left, we don't have to do anything to draw that fire, the opposition is very willing to start shooting in a vacuum.

If anyone had claims they thought were solid, it would have been the "gannon wrinkle" thread with 25 posts :)

[mordarlar]

215. Jeff Guckert who lived only miles from Conneaut Lake was born in 70.

He lived in Fairview. The pics are the Golf photos listed. Again the look is VERY similar.

[nonny]

232. Jeff Guckert the golfer

Hi mordarlar, a few Wrinkles ago, you asked me to shave the hair off Jeff Guckert the golfer. I did but it was locked. Then there wasn't anymore mention of this Jeff.

So here he is hairless (photoshopped)



Also the eyes: Golfer Jeff on top, WH Jeff Gannon bottom

[Catherine Vincent]

157. Most of you saw my "many faces of Gannon" post in thread 14 (post #59)

Out of all of those photos, this one really sticks out:



I don't know what y'all think but who the flake is this guy? That is not Gannon.

[intheflow]

166. It looks to me like the image was squashed.

An image of Gannon, but they needed it to fit certain siz requirements or something. (Like our avatar images. Check out this post by DU member sniffa. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=2790031#2790041 His avatar looks squashed compared to the picture in his user profile.)

It could also be a vanity thing--a squashed Guckert is a skinnier Guckert. ;)

[nonny]

198. My thoughts on Jeff Gannon's Washington

I posted about this yesterday --- but I think in the wrong spot.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3240504&mesg_id=3242861

Lots of opinions out there. I particularly enjoyed "Eye exams for the lot of ya"

Yesterday, when I was trying to pause the video of Gannon on Anderson 360 I was stuck by 2 things that really affect someone's looks.

First is the lighting. This TV lighting gives such even all-over light that there are virtually no shadows on the face. It softens the angles and makes the face look more ---- generic. It is supposed to be the most flattering look for a portrait.
Ever hold a flashlight under your chin? Scary shadows right?
The photo on his website looks like he was standing directly under a light bulb. Casting shadows that define the eye shapes, cheek bones, chin mark. (I think this kind of photo is so much for interesting to look at) IMO

Second is the expression that is caught the moment the camera snaps or the button pauses the video. Eyebrows were constantly going up and down. Blinking eyes, mouth open and shut, with each pause, he had a completely different look.

In your post -- the many faces..... Jeff Gannon's Washington, it looks like his image was resized without maintaining the same proportion. It looks like it was stretched up (and not out) making his head too thin. Just a digital mistake. It will be great to have Mordarlar's new pictures to check out.

[Catherine Vincent]

214. Yeah, the lighting in the studio was definitely a plus for him

that time. But his other two appearances (on Wolf and w/Campbell Brown) he wasn't so lucky.

[Maraya1969]

176. I sent this to Keith Olberman - here is his reply

"If you'll notice, as usual in Mr. Madsen's work, there's absolutely nothing supporting his outlandish headline. Exactly what connection does he show between Gannon and a pedophile ring (or even the existence of a pedophile ring). I have yet to read anything in Madsen that was worth the time spent."


Did I send him the wrong thing and should I send him something else?

[EFerrari]

180. I wouldn't. KO is right about Madsen.

Madsen is not careful and never builds his case. So, having seen that, the next thing you send will be judged as 'more of the same' imo.

Just my .02.

[Maraya1969]

190. Well why doesn't someone send him something more credible

[e-mail]

I'm having a lot of trouble following this story anyway.

[EFerrari]

195. We all do!

And perhaps that's why no one (that I know of) feels good about mailing to KO at this point.

And, you know, it's 'way more than one story. It's a whole collection of them.

[BamaBecky]

221. Right, I read all 65 pages...took 40 forevers....when I finished...I was

thinking....I guess this is Hillery's vast right wing conspiracy. There wasn't anything definitive....maybe I was tired....after reading all the wrinkles and then those 65 pages.......sheesh....just not enough hours in the day...and at the end of the day we still can't prove the CHEATED with the machines.

[St. Benedict]

192. Response to Olberman

Remind him that Gannon ran ads for his "services" in the Chicago Reader, which has ties to the pedophilia/slave ring.

See Skolnick.

[Domitan]

178. Hunter Thompson friend confirms journalist was on to WH callboy story

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/march2005/080305callboystory.htm

JONES: Well let me just add this. I mean, we have the New York Post: 'Top gay porn star services moguls at Bohemian Grove... I mean I have Parade magazine articles, Spy magazine articles from the 80s where, as I said they bus in the gay prostitutes like Beluga caviar for our "Christian conservative" leaders... And is that what Hunter S. Thompson was on to?

ROBERTS: He certainly knew all about that and I believe had written about it. I don't know wheher there was a book in the works, but he certainly had published columns on it...

JONES: Well it certainly looks pretty suspicious. Man let me tell you.



CALLER "Thomas in Colorado": I never met Mr. -- Dr. Thompson myself, but we had a muutal friend and I'm still friends with this guy and through this mutual friend, I passed on to him about a year ago some of your vidoes. So Dr Thompson watched your videos, I know this for a fact and through my friend I heard that he was impressed and he said something to the effect, "Yes, that's the way it is" or "That's the way things are."

------------------------
This has nothing to do with the Gosch-Gannon stuff...but has to do with Hunter and his alleged knowledge of the happenings in the Bohemian Grove. I don't know about CALLER, but ROBERTS is the Toronto Globe & Mail reporter who quoted Hunter as talking about the government's involvement in 9-11. Make of it what you will.

[St. Benedict]

196. Alex Jones today...

just moments ago mentioned again that Roberts stated to him (and on air) the Hunter THompson was working on a book on the pedophilia ring.

[TOOLZ]

181. That would be him!

I don't know how much this guy in HS looks like Johnny, though...can we see that side by side?

[St. Benedict]

186. Caggiano's columns

I think it is even more suspicious that Caggiano has written TWO columns on Gannon. So, if one was printed on 2-24 and the other was on 3-3, I ask again...

Does anyone have a copy of these issues to see if there is a publicity photo of Caggiano attached to his columns?

Seriously, how is he getting all of these "interviews" with Gannon?

[Catherine Vincent]

204. Apparently no one has copies of the sentinel.

I know we have duers in the d.c. area. Skinner, Elad and EarlG are the ones that come to mind. There may be others. Maybe you can send a pm to let them know what you are looking for.

[s-cubed]

228. I'll try to find one tomorrow. n/t

[LeahD]

193. Lips?

If anyone out there is over 40, pull out your old high school photos and compare to recent ones. As we age, our lips tend to lose that nice plumpness, and they also become thinner.

[understandinglife]

211. Disagree. I'm 57 and my lips do not look any different than they did....

....when I was 19.

More importantly, no difference in the shape of my 'eyes.'

Peace.

[LeahD]

218. I'm over 50 too

and mine have changed. Time for us to take a poll of over 50 duers?
Peace and more peace.

[troubleinwinter]

225. The Guckert HS pic is age appx 15, not 19, and

children of age 15 DO have different facial features than grown adults. That's how you know they are 15!

The lips of a baby are very full, curved and cupid-like. The lips generally thin when reaching adulthood.

[understandinglife]

234. 13, 15, 19, 22, ............, 57; no different. And, 'a baby' is ...

....is, of course, going to be different.

[Catherine Vincent]

222. Shouldn't this abstract painting be a separate thread?

That way more DUers can weigh in on what it is.

[Flash_Gambit]

230. Abstract Painting is actually picture of a painting.

I enlarged and cleaned this image up in Photoshop as best as I could. It is actually a photo of a poster/painting. It is framed in a metal frame and hanging on a paneled wall or wood door that has been painted white. You can make out the grooves. It is hanging at a slight angle.

The yellow box in the lower left corner is a logo of some kind. Image quality is too poor to clear it up any more.

The original jpg file was written in Adobe Photoshop version 3.0/4.0 so it was originally created some time in early 80's if memory serves me.

Hope this can be of some help.

[Bethany Rockafella]

237. Thank you for your input.

Welcome!:-)

[understandinglife]

236. Another thing to notice about these pictures -- the glasses.

Did he get contact lens as a senior year gift?

Any way, the more you look at the eyes, the less convincing he is whomever the person(s) is in any of the photos of "Gannon" (in some of which he still wears glasses) since the late 1990s.

Peace.

[Bethany Rockafella]

238. I am 90% sure those high school pictures are of Gannon.

He was cute back then as he is now.

[Moderator]

239. Is It Time For A New One?

[EFerrari]

241. I think so. I'll go start one. Thank you. n/t

[EFerrari]

243. Moderator, please lock. New thread here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3246659

[The Magistrate]

246. Locking

New thread here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3246659