It's pretty amazing what happens when one cuts against DU orthodoxy

[WilliamPitt]

I posted my opinion:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3238385&mesg_id=3238385

...that the Sgrena shooting probably wasn't deliberate. The post was long and detailed and, I thought, reasonable.

In that thread, I was accused of helping along the military 'cover story.'

I was described as posting "Jeff Gannon style military porn."

Etc. Check it out.

I get just as annoyed and disgused as many of you do when someone here flies off the handle, denounces all DUers and uses whatever pissed them of as a brush to paint all progressives before saying they are leaving. Obviously, I'm not leaving.

But it is amazing how quickly you get chewed up around here if you don't buy into the conspiracy-du-jour. You're working for Bush or posting 'military porn' (whatever that is) instead of offering a reasoned opinion.

We could probably work on that 'liberal tolerance' thing we all take so much pride in.

Just a thought.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have to get in touch with Headquarters, after which I will update my prostitution website, continue the Franklin coverup, club a bay seal and litter with impugnity.

;)

[commander bunnypants]

1. mmm baby seal steak

with fried onions

CB

[Warpy]

13. And fetus fritters on the side?

Sorry you felt attacked, Will, but it happens to all of us.

Personally, I can't manage to buy either story. I find it odd that the military, which has been trained to shoot at the DRIVER to stop a speeding car, fired 300 or so rounds anywhere BUT at the driver. I also find it farfetched that the military would have set up an elaborate hit on a celebrity like a newly freed female journalist from one of the few allies we have left. It just doesn't make sense, no matter what story she was working on. It's not like the MSM would have reported on what she discovered, and the GOP party base would have remained blissfully ignorant of it.

It's really sad when there are two widely divergent accounts of an event because it leaves the whole thing wide open to overinterpretation by conspiracy theorists and propagandists of all types.

All we know about this incident is that something about it smells of bungling and coverup.

[meegbear]

2. You're posting military porn?

Can I have the link?

[democracyindanger]

3. Your failure

to mention Peak Oil, ChemTrails and their obvious connection to recent New England sport success only confirms that you are part of the larger media conspiracy to obscure the truth.

[yvr girl]

4. Will, I think we need a link to 'Your other website'

You must have some 'Men in uniform', right? Maybe not 'In', but you know what I mean.


DU can chew people up, and spit them out. Hopefully, it will make us stronger rather than kill us. Not always sure though...

[LeftCoast]

5. Ah...the self-styled ThoughtGuard of DU

Those are the folks that make me question whether we really ARE all that much better than the Republicans. Gak.

[Jacobin]

6. Time will tell

or not.

[On the Road]

7. If You're Looking for an "Amen",

you can a witness right here.

[MissB]

8. DU orthodoxy?

Nah.

On a Democratic site that has nearly 66,000 members, there are bound to be differences of opinions. You can post as reasonable of an opinion as any ever posted and you'll find some people that disagree with you.

I thought the military porn comment was hilarious, even if it was undeserved. :evilgrin:

[WilliamPitt]

11. Disagreement is fine, welcomed, expected and necessary

When disagreement begins and ends with character assassination, that's where the train leaves the tracks.

[MissB]

20. True, but that is where one

hits the alert button. But you already knew that.

Some people around here have agendas, it seems. Good for them. If they cross the line, we all know what we're supposed to do. :shrug:

[Just Me]

71. Although I don't agree with it, most protect verbal abuse as free speech.

:shrug:

You shoulda' seen the political gang bang with personal insults and all that I was subjected to when I suggested that bullying and verbal abuse didn't deserve to be protected under the auspice of free speech. Whew!!!

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Emboldened Chimp]

77. Disagreement is especially welcome when talking baseball...

9-2.

:D

[bpilgrim]

131. WilliamPitt: what character assassination?

i posted a LEGIT QUESTION and you dismissed it out of hand.

now you're whining in a separate thread, lame.

why not address the criticism in the other thread you started?

peace

[coreystone]

:-)

[barbaraann]

9. That's nothing.

Try being anti-prostitution or even slightly receptive to David Icke. ;)

[Dr Ron]

10. Agreed

What you are arguming over is a matter of fact, not ideology.

I don't know the truth of the matter, but it is not necessarily the case that all accusations of wrong doing by groups which are guilty of wrong doing in other areas are true.

If we are to have credibility in ciritiizing the Bush administration for its misdeeds, it is better to make sure that such accusations are true.

[Blue_In_AK]

12. For what it's worth, Will...

...I tend to agree with you that this wasn't a deliberate shooting, although I think they're maybe just a little too trigger-happy over there and serious mistakes are being made. However, it is a confusing combat situation, and it's understandable that the soldiers may over-react out of fear.

[DireStrike]

14. It's comforting to think that they're trolls

But it's not possible that that's always the case.

[WilliamPitt]

17. Some of the 'trolls'

have been here longer than I have, and I'm into my fourth year at DU.

So, no, it isn't trolls.

[wellst0nev0ter]

103. Are We Reading The Same Threads?

When I took a look at the original thread, I thought the discussion was pretty reasonable and mild compared to past flamefests (*cough*RalphNader*cough*cough*cough*) and according to my count all of THREE Duers personally attacked you in that thread, the rest either agreed with you or politely/firmly disagreed with you.

Of course if I'm wrong, I'll happily admit my mistakes, but if one of my threads got the type of response yours got, I'd consider it a good day.

[Viking12]

15. Save the birds,Take out a cat !

Are you referring to the inevitable attacks that will likely follow from this post?

[crispini]

70. Hahahahahaha!

Are you referring to a Lounge thread of infamy? That one was GREAT.

[Viking12]

110. No, the one currently raging in GD.

Several people have made very sound arguments in support of the proposal. The Cat "orthodoxy" has muted all rational discussion of the issue.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3233160

[Berserker]

152. I hate cats

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

156. That reflects poorly on you.

[cry baby]

16. I think a certain desperation is getting the better of some of us here.

We don't know the truth of the Sgrena matter yet, and we probably never will. Your explanation sounds reasonable to me, yet my suspicion for everything bush perhaps has colored my perception of everything so that I start to see conspiracies everywhere.

I must start to see things truthfully again. I hate bush for taking away that trust that I used to have.

Just keep telling the truth as you know it. We are listening.

[BurtWorm]

18. Amen!

I know exACTly what you mean! :eyes:

[Bluebear]

19. So do we continue the discussion here or in the thread?

I'm so confused.

[Terran]

21. Yep...stay out of abortion threads too while you're at it.

Dissent is not tolerated, no matter how reasonable it might be. At least we haven't made an institution of thought control here they way they do at FR.

[katsy]

105. And therein lies the problem...

What's the difference between FR and DU?

If freepers operate in lockstep ONLY to promote shrub's ideology, are DUers only function to assign schrub blame for everything no matter the facts?

What happens if we ignore the nuances of events and what if the facts go against us? Won't that chip away at the credibility of DU?

Are we no longer able to debate issues or share opinions without flaming one another? Shall we check-in every day to be issued our opinions? I thought only freepers read from the same script.

I'm with Will Pitt on the issue of the shooting in Iraq. This war is chaotic, poorly executed, immoral, unneccessary, oil-grabbing and a host of other things... now do you want to execute the troops that fired at the reporter's car? Screw their civil rights, screw the chaos, screw their age, screw due process, just shoot them because they were guilty of conspiracy to promote shrub's conspiracy.

[bloom]

106. I think most people around here

expect to keep an open mind as more details come out.

Will seems to have made up his mind already - even though the US military is reserving their judgement for 3-4 weeks.

"I feel confident in stating that it is highly unlikely that the attack on Sgrena was deliberate..."

(for no particularly good reason that I could see).

Where is the nuance in that?

And then to go to go on a tirade...but it's not the first time.

[katsy]

124. "Where is the nuance in that?"

The nuance in that... is the chaotic nature of this war and what affect (if any) it has on the troops and their ability to make split second judgments.

The nuance in that... would be to question whether an orchestrated assassination would allow for sparing the lives of witnesses.

The nuance in that... what has Sgrena revealed, so earth shattering, that it would justify her assassination by the military if not shrub himself? That Italy paid a bounty? Then where are all the other bodies of foreign reporters killed by the military because their country negotiate ransoms for hostages? Is Italy the only one?

The tirade about shooting the troops first was meant as an example, albeit a poor one, of where a runaway conspiracy theory regarding this shooting may lead. A poor example. Sorry.

While it may not be the first time someone goes on a tirade here, I can only speak for myself to say... alas, it probably won't be the last time I go off. Feel free to ignore. Sigh.

[bloom]

190. I wasn't talking about

your tirade - my fault for being vague, I'm sure.

It's the OP and how he goes off on people who are not "lockstepping" (that was from one of his tirades a week ago or so) and then gets all these people to lockstep behind him.

Mostly I do ignore it. This time I got fed up.

[Spinoza]

158. Wonderfully spoken.

Got your back.

[bigtree]

22. I feel confident that, as a writer and as a journalist

you have been demonstratably on the side of truth. That's what should be recognized as folks agree or disagree with your posts and writings.

[seventythree]

23. agree!!!!!

[The_Casual_Observer]

24. "DU orthodoxy" - This implies greater weight than I think

the theory deserves. However, the sense of outrage over what appears to be totally reckless behavior, that is probably also policy, seems justified.

[Chico Man]

25. I was defending video games on another thread

I was accused of being a neocon. WTF?

[Hugin]

32. I had to bite my keyboard to keep from...

... posting in that thread.

I knew it was flame bait for lurkers.

Hey, maybe I should write a book titled that,
"Flame Bait for Lurkers."

;)

[andyhappy]

26. I agree with ya

about there not being a cover up. I think it was just another stupid mistake in a stupid mistake of a war. War is ugly, no doubt about that.

Honestly, I think that if they were really trying to knock out that chick they would have covered it up by killing everyone in the car and blaming it on the insurgents!

-on edit-
I wouldn't let the people freaking out on you bum you out. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and while there is somewhat of a herd mentality on the DU there are more people on here who think before they rap away some brutal insult on their keyboard to be logged in the bowels of the internet forever!

[Hugin]

27. Whoa!

Yup.

<nods>

Keep rock'n dude.

:)

[Beetwasher]

28. Only A Pinko Commie Fag Like Yourself Would Say Something Like That!

or a FREEPER! ;-)

[Me.]

29. Must Be Something In The Water

Glad you're not going away, really appreciate reading your thoughts and your continued effort at truth-telling. Though your littering habit leaves me a little worried, Have you considered litter rehab?

[frictionlessO]

30. I liked your other post Will, you changed my mind just a bit, but

if it was an accidental killing. Why?

I need something more reasonable than scared soldiers. Every soldier over there is scared, tired, and many are close to their wits end. Yet they are all not shooting at cars going 25 mph (an Italian Minister said that), add the conflicts of they notified/didn't notify but there was a plane waiting and a US colonel and... you get where Im coming from.

What Im getting the feeling of is an illegal free fire zone around the airport. I mean they are illegal right?

Sorry I guess I should've posted this in the other thread.

Otherwise I agree, Im blown away by how often we try and cut the legs off our own here... from all sides. We needn't do that, the ones who hate us will take care of it.

[booksenkatz]

31. Luxury.

Only yesterday, I was accused of having blood-soaked hands that drip with evil, simply because I don't think that our invasion of the M.E. contributes to M.E. peace. There's no discussing anything with some people, DUers or not. I welcome viewpoints from all angles; I don't expect everyone to agree with me, just as long as they present themselves as equally dispossessed of the Absolute Truth as I am. I don't like it when someone who has appointed him/herself Gawd marches into a discussion hurling bolts of fire and telling each individual what his/her agenda is, what his/her morals are, etc. I don't want to be analyzed by someone I don't know, I simply want to engage in thoughtful discussion. I've lurked at/participated in many sane discussions here at DU that have helped to change my thinking on several issues, i.e. the death penalty.

Believe me, your essays/posts are always welcome, whether I agree with them 100% or not (I usually do). To me, presentation of one's ideas is everything. You are a treasure, Will.

On edit: That word 'dispossessed' doesn't work, but you know what I mean.;)

[soleft]

33. Did anyone you know personally post something that upset you?

It's an anonymous internet message board. You don't even know necessarily if the person posting is in fact a progressive democrat. If you know the people, well, then it's understandably upsetting.

[zippy890]

34. Gee, if DU has an orthodoxy

I don't know if I want to belong...

I mean, thats the reason I come here, to get away from orthodoxy.


After reading the thread you posted, with your opinion about the

Sgrena shooting, I found that i was a little irked: you wrote

"Now that a couple of days have passed, and after extensive research and analysis into the situation, I feel confident in stating that it is highly unlikely that the attack on Sgrena was deliberate."

It was not the substance of what you were saying, -everyone has

opinions - its the rather authoritative way you state it. Maybe this

is where anonymity gets in the way, - because if you are someone who

is privy to information that is unavailable to everyone else--- hey,

I'd be persuaded.

But your point is well taken here, and its important to be open-

minded and tolerant.

Everybody's frustrated with our f*** government,I don't think with

you.

[bloom]

111. I think you hit it.

esp:

I found that i was a little irked: you wrote

"Now that a couple of days have passed, and after extensive research and analysis into the situation, I feel confident in stating that it is highly unlikely that the attack on Sgrena was deliberate."

It was not the substance of what you were saying, -everyone has

opinions - its the rather authoritative way you state it.

-----

I was not persuaded.

[Minstrel Boy]

149. irked here, too.

It smacked of - dare I say it - orthodoxy.

[hunter]

35. I'm really a nice fellow...

A Social Justice Catholic with an acid toungue.

It really was your "war porn" wording that set me off, and not the basic premise of your post.

And no, I am not stalking you...

Please accept my apology. I leave it rest.

[tx_dem41]

36. Classy post, hunter. n/t

[Ms. Clio]

37. I don't see that at all

I see that you posted your opinion and most of those who responded did so in a reasonable and thoughtful manner.

[Bluebear]

43. That this thread is now one of "the greatest" is interesting

"it is amazing how quickly you get chewed up around here if you don't buy into the conspiracy-du-jour"

Leaving the original poster out of things, is this the face that one wants a new visitor to see? Internet message boards provide a great opportunity for relatively anonymous discourse. I don't see a lot of chewing up going on at DU and I have a pretty thin skin! Sometimes conspiracy-du-jours even turn out to be true!

[Ms. Clio]

51. Obviously, it all depends on whose ox is being gored

I usually only see the real trolls being chewed to pieces--that thread just doesn't strike me as anything close to what happened with the Israel flamebait, for example, or the "This is probably my last post" (and it was!) thread last night.

I also remember when those of us who discussed the first stories coming out of Gitmo and Abu Ghraib were ridiculed as tinfoilers and America-haters, etc.

[Bluebear]

53. Absolutely. No mercy for trolls....

but I have and continue to have many fruitful discussions with comfortable DU pals I may not always agree with, but that is how I widen my awareness of issues!

[Ms. Clio]

57. That's been my experience, as well

This is a lively, fascinating place because everybody doesn't march in lockstep.

[Bluebear]

59. And just what did you mean by THAT crack?

:hi:

[Ms. Clio]

69. Why, I meant to flame you to hell and back, of course!

:hi:

[DinahMoeHum]

38. Will, understand this. We and the public have been fed

so many lies and deceits from this Bush Mis-Administration that many of us here wouldn't put anything past these people.

Hence the various conspiracy theories.

We've seen proof that these folks will say and do anything to get their way, and they can't be reached on it, and they smack down anybody who loves this country but disagrees with them. AFAIAC, when they do the latter, they have crossed a line.

This mis-Administration is a coup d'etat waiting to happen, like a Tom Clancy novel.

And what I wish personally for Bush and his cronies isn't fit to be mentioned here.

:argh::argh::argh:

[Maeve]

39. Will, dear...you will always get slammed. Always.

There is an old legend of a tyrant who was asked how to rule. He took the questioner out into a wheat field and snapped off the head of every stalk that stood out above the others around it.

Now we snap off the heads of the stalks ourselves if they start to get too "high and mighty." Some refer to it as "envy."

It would be easier if DUers would just remember we are ALL WilliamPitt. (God, but I miss Kheph!)

[Maeve]

40. Glitch--posted twice

Altho it bears repeating....

There is an old legend of a tyrant who was asked how to rule. He took the questioner out into a wheat field and snapped off the head of every stalk that stood out above the others around it.

Now we snap off the heads of the stalks ourselves if they start to get too "high and mighty." Some refer to it as "envy."

It would be easier if DUers would just remember we are ALL WilliamPitt. (God, but I miss Kheph!)

[Sporadicus]

41. The Anger Directed at Your Original Post

is more related to pride than to mere difference of opinion. It appears that - for some people - questioning 'conventional wisdom' is earth-shattering and personally threatening. I sometimes wonder if people with such traits would rather remain ignorant - or wrong - rather than acknowledge the truth if it contradicts preconceived notions. Feel that sting? That's pride fucking with you!

[SarahB]

47. Bingo!

:thumbsup:

[Guaranteed]

42. Yeah, well...

That's what people do here. They look for reasons to jump on you and kick the shit out of you.

I made a great thread a couple of nights ago and it got very little attention. People just didn't get it, although they still tried to poo-poo it. Can't be having these damned non-boring thinking-outside-the-box kinds of threads.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

44. i wasn't aware there was a DU orthodoxy on this situation

if there is i am not a subscriber to it.
you picked a hot topic, posters responded who are obviously interested in promoting the idea that it was somehow a "hit".
many other posters like myself did not respond as we do not have an informed opinion one way or the other about the reason/cause of the incident.

i think it is a bit far fetched to claim that you are cutting against the DU orthodoxy.

[IrateCitizen]

46. There's a DU orthodoxy on almost EVERY situation...

And if you dare to cut against it, you should prepare to be flamed.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

48. so you are telling me that most of DU would agree

that this situation was a premeditated hit?

i would have to disagree with you there.

how can you back up that assertion?

[zippy890]

49. Oh dear, is it that bad?

I hope not, that'd be a bummer

I'm still a bit new, and have notice the propensity to jump on people

for being trolls, but I diidn't get the sense it was that bad.

;(

[SheepyMcSheepster]

52. in fact, i think it would be nice if you could create a list

of situations/ideas/beliefs and the alleged orthodoxies that pertain to those ideas/situations/beliefs.

then possibly do a poll and see what DU really thinks about your perscribed orthodoxies for given situations/ideas/beliefs.

[bpilgrim]

140. and will is one of the wise-men who set it

which makes this post even more ironic :crazy:

peace

[ElectroPrincess]

186. It depends, in part on those who choose to participate or

happen to be on-line at the time. Because most of us are fairly well read and have developing (not etched in stone) opinions, debate becomes heated at times.

What's most unfortunate is when we do that indirect slights kind of stuff ... you know what I'm referring to, don't ya? ;)

I try my best to respect everyone's opinion save for those which reek of Right Wing Koolaid drinkers. If it's freeper-ville post, much less heartache to just press "alert" ... and once again wash the maggot right wing nut-case off of our board. Ooops! I'm showing my progressive BIAS again. :toast:

[IrateCitizen]

45. You forgot about actually reading a Bible or saying the Rosary...

... or anything else having to do with an endorsement of organized religion in any shape or form.

I've said for some time here that we're really not much better than left-wing freepers around here. Your experience offers just another experiment to help justify my hypothesis.

[OneMoreDemocrat]

61. "Left-Wing Freepers"............

I've been here for over three years (under a different name that just became a lightening rod for flames so I changed it), and this I think is a good description of this place once in a while. It really tends to stifle actual political (or otherwise) discussion, which is sad.

It's not pretty when 'they' do it, and it's disgusting when 'we' do it.

[hfojvt]

95. actually the left has a long history in America

of fracturing and hating their own "heretics" worse than they hate the system or "the man". Part of it is egos, and part of it is rage about the system which can get deflected onto an easier target.

[Spinoza]

164. Hitch

[hfojvt]

177. Jampot?

Nah, he just drank himself onto the dark side and/or sold out. More like Counterpunch, they punch everybody, never mind the FPA (Fascist Party of America (formerly GOP)).

[Warren DeMontague]

122. I don't have a problem with people who are religious.

I have a problem with people who are religious and feel the overweening need to impose their faith on the rest of us.

You see people blowing gaskets over "endorsements of organized religion", I've seen religious people (even here) who can't handle an atheist who dares to publicly mention his or her lack of belief.

Talk about the bible all you want. But if your religion requires it to be taught to my kids in their science class, then we have a problem.

[wryter2000]

50. This always happens

There are so many folks here, you can always find someone to act like an idiot. It seems to me there's no way to avoid that. But it doesn't reflect on DU as a whole, imho.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

55. it's a bit like mistaking a whole town for anti-abortionist

because you only saw anti-abortion protestors outside the planned parent hood location.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. It must be a conspiracy against Will.

Engineered from Moscow.

[Goldmund]

63. LMAO

[Riding this Donkey]

144. Hey Goldmund great job on the Jeffgannon.org site. It looks great.

n/t

[Goldmund]

179. Thank you!

but as far as the look of it, DutchDemocrat is much more deserving of praise than I am.

[Adams Wulff]

56. I read that post earlier this morning and...

Took it for what it was worth. Nobody knows what really happened on that road, when the shots rang out, I hope someday we will.
Your post, in my opinion, was speculation, that maybe it wasn't a hit on a journalist as ordered by the administration. Fair enough. Do I buy that reasoning?

I'm not inclined to at this time, due to what I've seen the last 5 years.

That said, you may be right, You may be wrong WE DON'T KNOW; but you didn't deserve the crap spewed at you by some.

I like your work, keep it up. I look forward to the give and take your work puts me through, in my own head most of the time.

So thanks!

[SOteric]

58. Good lord, Will, -

aren't you getting your regular updates from the hive mind?!



I'll send someone out to test your tertiary ajunct.

[VelmaD]

72. That sounds vaguely kinky...

I volunteer. ;)

[theboss]

60. You think you got it rough?

I am Pro-Israel, I like Joe Lieberman, and I think that Castro needs to be thrown off a bridge somewhere.

[Kingshakabobo]

115. Lieberman heh? Put 'em up!

[Chicago Democrat]

62. Judgements like "guilty" or not need to be reserved for a court

because nobody really knows. But before things go to court allegations need to be made. Wild, unsubstantiated and the net thrown widely. Like the Repukes did to justify a war that was unjustifiable.


If this were an American journalist there would be no investigation at all and you know that is true.


Therefore its the duty of liberals to connect dots and raise hell. Its just the way it is..


That all said, I think someone was trigger happy and its obvious that those trigger happy 18 yo's killed innocent people all the time so no wonder they're making excuses.

[Goldmund]

64. You're stating the obvious.

This happens at least a few times a day on different threads. The thread you cite is a mild example of this phenomenon, there have been far worse examples about far less significant issues... Which always, inevitably, happens when you have a group of people united around a common ideology. So what? It's not like anybody will ban you from DU for "cutting against the orthodoxy"; myself, I think that posts and threads that cut against the orthodoxy are the most valuable of all, whether I agree with them or not.

[BigBearJohn]

65. It seems to me that the majority of the time, people adore you here

So, if you get chewed up on occasion... that comes with the territory.
I've never seen anyone here get as much adulation as you do Will.
I've read your stuff and I too am one of your fans. However, instead
of complaining about being chewed up, why not put forth a more
convincing argument that is so brilliant, it bares no argument?
Don't shame us into agreement, dazzle us with reason.

[BigBearJohn]

143. Check out what Malloy had to say yesterday on this very subject

http://server2.whiterosesociety.org/content/rhodes/RhodesShow-(07-03-2005)b.mp3

[Bluebear]

66. Well I guess I will repost here. Words like "conclusion" are premature

Everything else aside, I think the use of the two phrases "I feel confident in stating" and "My conclusion" were the critical downfall of the essay. There is no evidence to proclaim that any one scenario is true. Even the "multinational forces" have ordered a "probe" of the situation:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=5...

For you to publish now "the attack was not deliberate" in conclusive terms is not up to your usual standard of examining 'truth'.

[The Straight Story]

67. Define, if you will, Orthodoxy?

As far as tolerance - not sure I get that definition either. Does it mean we accept views from others, or that we question them in an acceptable way?

I agree, btw, with your's and others' assesment of the situation in general reagrding the whole main issue - what I am not sure of is the whole theme of this thread. I am sure my views on some things are way off of others on some items, and they will brand me as they will, but you can't please everyone :)

What I do share in relation to this thread is the understanding that some folks at times tend be overly eager to brand things under the conspiracy label when bush has something to do with it. He is an 8 year guy, many folks in government have been there longer then he has - the biggest conspiracy I see is the one to cover his a** over his stupidity and bad decisions.

IMHO - all bush all the time as the main problem glosses over the deeper problems inherent in our government and it's ways. Focusing too much on one person and their lackeys does not go to the core issues which transcend those in main offices. But that is a topic for another day I suppose :)

It can get frustrating when the focus shifts to an 'all powerful' guy who is an idiot and conspiracy genius all at the same time and away from the core ideals on a topic. Such is life, at least it is entertaining :)

[jdots]

68. Will we are in a media vacume

[shockra]

73. I think what Will is doing is common...

...among the most intelligent people. They see that most people hold one opinion and they figure it must be wrong, since most people tend to be stupid. I've seen these naysayers on some other boards on this subject too.

I've done the same myself, many times. But not on this issue. There are just way too many reasons not to trust this government. And I believe the person that was THERE more...even though that person is a woman (ha ha).

Most people seem to be stupid most of the time, yah. That the cynicism in me. But...in the situation we're in right now under Bush, I've been willing to give that cynical part a rest more often when it comes to people on the left. It's more important that we get our energy together loud and strong when the story's still fresh, and something can be done to keep the opposition alive. I'm not willing to indulge in giving the Bush government the benefit of the doubt anymore when it loses us valuable time.

Even on the slim chance that it winds up they're telling the truth (Oh, man. Just typing those words makes me laugh -- the TRUTH?) I wouldn't feel guilty for giving them any grief. They've more than earned it and have certainly given Democrats undeserved grief many, many times.

[aaronnyc]

74. Comments from a newbie

Although I hadn't posted until today I have been a long time lurker, and even registered a couple of weeks. The reason it took me so long to actually post was because I didn't want to get flamed and called a troll.

Although I don't agree with many of the posters here, I am a Democrat and generally hold liberal positions on the issues; thus, I think that I belong on this Democratic message board. Yet, I have been afraid that by countering some of the orthodoxy, that I would be labeled a "Freeper". I find it kind of disturbing that anyone who posts anything which counters the conventional wisdom on DU, either has their post labeled as "flamebait" or is called a "troll" or "Freeper".

Why would a conservative want to post here,pretending to be a Democrat anyway? Even if an occasional poster was a Republican "spy", who cares? I feel that people here often acccuse those whom cut across the grain of being a "troll", as a means of limiting dissenting views. It is similar to the way Conservatives today try to silence dissenting voices on the war, by accusing them of "being against the troops", or how they used to label any opposition as being "Communists."

The Democratic Party needs to have a bigger tent or we will perenially be in the minority. If you continue to tell anyone who is not lock-step with the Left Wing, that they are really a Republican, then some of them might actually become Republicans.

[Bluebear]

76. Welcome to DU.

About us needing a bigger tent or we will be in the minority....

I'll put Democrats tents up against Republicans tents any day. "Mine's bigger!" :)

[aaronnyc]

88. Thanks for the greeting

I agree that we probably have a bigger tent than the GOP, but we certainly can't afford to start turning members away. DU has tremendous power to mobilize Democrats, so the more active users that this site can get the better.
:)

[zippy890]

84. Welcome!

:toast:

I was nervous to post for a while too, glad to see you here

[w4rma]

86. Welcome! And when you see any of that happen

please help DU by calling the poster on on it right there in that specific thread as a reply to their post.

[RaleighNCDUer]

100. One way to avoid the flames of freeperdom is to avoid using

freeper terminology in your posts. Not using their buzzwords, even if you find yourself in grudging agreement with them on some point or other, is an indication that you are thinking the issue out for yourself, which in itself indicates that you are not a freeper.

As evidenced by your post.

So, Welcome!

[Spinoza]

162. Do I understand you to mean

that certain (non perjorative) WORDS are now actually TABOO? Because they are used by freepers? Freepers also (reputedly) have sex.

[11 Bravo]

166. Sex with animals and calves liver doesn't count.

[bpilgrim]

145. welcome to DU aaronnyc

:toast:

as long as you have facts (with links) to back you up you ain't got nothing to worry about posting here ;->

i think many flame ups occur not because we are 'orthodox' be because we are unorthodox compared to the main stream who are unawares of many facts and history so what you can get away with in the M$M you can't here because we got a paper trail :evilgrin:

have fun and... pass the word :hi:

peace

[realisticphish]

171. welcome to DU

and remember... these people have no power. No admin is going to tombstone you for getting flamed. so, post what you think, and fuck 'em all! :)

:toast:

[LondonReign2]

78. Holy Crap! You litter?!?!?!?

n/t

[necso]

79. Fuggedaboutit.

If you let other members get to you, then they'll never stop. And since you are a public figure, you are a particularly attractive target.

The troops are primarily interested in getting home in one piece. Under these circumstances (or in any combat), mistakes and excesses are to be expected, especially in a mess like Iraq. And shooting up both innocents and friendlies does have precedents there.

Many things posted here do make us look bad and detract from the site. But as long as the posters stay within the rules there isn't much you can do. -- Except not give a damn.

Fuggedaboutit. It will pass... and some other hot issue will arise.

And my ignore list gets longer all the time. (tee-hee)

[latebloomer]

80. seems to me you're being a bit thin-skinned, Will

Other than the Gannon comment, I didn't see any egregious attacks on you-- mostly a lot of respectful disagreement.

[bicentennial_baby]

87. Heh, wouldn't be the first time....

as far as the thin skinned thing goes...and I'm quite sure it won't be the last. :eyes:

[WilliamPitt]

96. Possibly

But to be honest, I felt no great swelling of outrage or anger when I posted this. Don't feel that now. Just surprised. If that's thin-skinned, then I guess I have to wear the label.

[bpilgrim]

154. calling out other DU'ers you disagree with in a separate thread isn't ONLY

thin skinned it's mean spirited and intellectually immature.

i have much respect for you and therefore i am offended that you decided to indirectly accuse me in a separate thread instead of dealing with your issues in the original thread.

this thread should be locked IMO since it IS against DU rules.

peace

[Ms. Clio]

182. Yes, it breaks several rules

Continuing a flame war from another thread (although it wasn't really a flame war, just ONE less-than-worshipful post); "calling out" another DUer; and flamebait.

Yet it remains open. Very curious indeed.

[bloom]

81. I think that perhaps you were looking

to stir up shit.

Just like you like call people around here "locksteppers" - as if you are somehow above all that.


It didn't seem to me that you had much of argument besides the fact that you just chose not to believe the liberal Italian journalist over the US (PNAC inspired ) military.

Lockstep with who you want to lockstep with - but I think you should quit insulting us.


P.S. "us" - being whoever disagrees with you.

[Stirk]

82. There were also alot of reasoned responses in that thread- but you

didn't respond to many of them, if any. Pardon me for saying it, but this post seems like grandstanding.

[w4rma]

83. Alot of folks agreed with you, also, WillPitt. Personally, I haven't made

a decision on this subject, yet. Too many facts are being kept secret to make a decision, imho.

Just remember that regular soldiers would NOT have been, explicitly, told to assassinate any of the people in that car.

Instead a group of soldiers known to be more ready to shoot anything that moves would have been told to patrol an area that their superiors knew that these folks would be traveling on. Or something similarly hard to explain and pin on someone. Unaccountability is important in alleged situations like this.

Also, about 60% of Army officers are Republicans or Republican-leaning. It's also possible that one of these officers decided they'd, independently, set up a situation where this "Communist" journalist would have a very high change of being killed.

Like I said. The facts that would confirm or deny situations like this haven't been released so this is all speculation.

[IrateCitizen]

89. 60% of officers are Republican or R-leaning???

I'd say the figure is closer to 75-80%, possibly more.

And I'm basing this on my personal experience as an officer in the Army Reserve. I'd say that 75% conservative would have been on the LOW end in my battalion. And we pulled people from the NYC metro area.

[Kolesar]

92. enjoying your freedom?

I recall that you had to pull tricks to get out of the Army. I hope you are free and clear now.

[IrateCitizen]

104. Well, let me put it to you this way...

At 31 going on 32, I feel free for the first time in my adult life to live my life in accordance with my beliefs. So yes, I am definitely enjoying my freedom.

If you want to see what I've been up to lately, check out www.peace-out.com. I'm also involved in Iraq Veterans Against the War as well.

[Kolesar]

107. "Any mother's son will do"

There was a series on public TV a long time ago called "War", hosted by Gwynn Dwyer. He was a Canadian naval officer and is now a writer. In the episode with the mother title, he presented the recruit indoctrination in the US Marine Corps and in the Soviet Army (shows how old the series is). There is this process of creating a bond between the young recruits so that they will support each other and serve their superiors.

It seems that in your section "OTHER SOLDIERS", the CO is breaking that training. That must be an incredibly challenging moment for a young person. I was an officer candidate in college, but never did participate in that intense training like in boot camp. I could only imagine what the CO would be going through. Like deprogramming from a cult, I suppose.

[IrateCitizen]

114. It is an experience that continually rips you in two...

I was an officer in the Army Reserves, and although I do not regret my decision in any way, I still feel ripped in two every time I think about it, which is still several times a day.

Reaching out and doing CO counseling helps me deal with that pain. It's my way of making a positive out of a very difficult experience.

[Kolesar]

117. that's what I would imagine

I must get going--another activist meeting tonight!

[THUNDER HANDS]

85. my supervisor at work is an ex-Marine

who's best friend is in Iraq. He told me last week that the biggest problem on the roads there is that there's no communication. Nobody radios ahead telling the soldiers at the next stop who's coming along, or they're incorrectly given orders that there are no friendlies in the area so 'shoot anyone who comes near you' because they are the enemy.

That being said, how much do you charge? :D

[BikeWriter]

91. There is no such animal as an ex-Marine. I know that and I was a Zoomie.

Once a Marine, always a Marine.

[Kolesar]

93. I have two in-laws who are Ex-Marines

Vietnam era. Believe me, they don't "love the corps".

[BikeWriter]

118. Dayum, they've called it quits with the Corps?

I've heard of everything now.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

97. I'm an ex-marine.

'61 - '65. We knew it as "The Crotch", "The Suck", and other terms of endearment.

Eat the apple and fuck the Corps.

[BikeWriter]

119. I'd never heard of anyone disowning it though. I can understand why.

[mmonk]

90. That's life here.

I remember the days I was called a freeper, especially at first. Ha, so funny now when I think back on it.

[Cleita]

94. Your post put up the facts that you have been able to unearth

so far and that is responsible journalism. I'm sorry you got attacked. I didn't answer your post because I really don't know yet what to believe, but I think we should wait and see what evolves from this. I still think there is something here that doesn't seem right, like there is a hidden thread missing waiting to be pulled to unravel the truth.

[Catherine Vincent]

98. Who was chewing you up?

Let me at them!:-)

[Riding this Donkey]

99. When someone does this, i call them on it right then and there

I don't post a whole new thread regarding it. I find it much more effective that way.

:shrug:

[nolabels]

101. I would suspect both sides have an Axe to grind

Which tells me the truth might even be somewhere in the middle

I would also think the Italian reporter has a better chance of being listened to because she is not working under the dictates of a group run by pathological liars.

If I were going to put money on it, and the real truth was going to be heard, I am guessing her story is going to be closer to the truth. The jury is still out and nobody has to decide I would also still ponder.

[liberalhistorian]

102. Will, you've been here as long

as long as you have and you're only finding that out NOW?

[bozeman]

108. It's vicious - all kinds of accusations fly

People will fight to the death to cling to some petty bullshit conspiracy theory that they think somehow validates their worldview. In this case, some DUers want to believe anything that makes the military in Iraq look bad.

[Ms. Clio]

112. Speaking of vicious accusations. . . .

DU seems to make you very unhappy. I wonder why you torture yourself like this.

[bozeman]

113. It was one thread

Ok?

[Ms. Clio]

183. Uh huh

We'll see.

[UdoKier]

160. LMFAO!!!

NT

[UdoKier]

163. Not one of the accusations about Ms Clinton and her right-leaning votes...

... has even closely resembled a "conspiracy theory". But you sure are fond of that word.

Here's one that will really blow your mind, "bozeman", a significant number of DUers ACTUALLY BELIEVE that the Bush administration LET the 9-11 attacks take place. That they sat on their hands ON PURPOSE! Can you believe that? Just because they had ample warning, and ignored them completely and went on vacation, and just because they have tried to block every inquiry into 9-11 and Saudi terror financing? I mean come on, Bush & company actually KILLING people for billions of dollars and untold power? Could never happen!

Man, bozeman, I'll bet a sensible guy like you could make mincemeat out of those nutty conspiracy theorists! Get over to the 9-11 forums at once!

[Spinoza]

165. Seems like it.

I don't understand why so many posters seem so eager for a lynching. Lets wait for an investigation before jumping to conclusions. Thats only fair to the soldiers involved.

[bozeman]

174. Here, here! Just say no to lynch mobs!

That's exactly the way some of it strikes me: an angry unreasoning mob out for blood.

[John BigBootay]

109. And you're just figuring this out now.....???? n/t

[tlcandie]

116. The thread you linked was a GREAT thread!!! Lots of thought and

discussion with level heads. There was only one jab between you and Hunter which, IMO from having seen MANY so-called fired-up threads within my 3 year history or more with DU, was VERY mild compared to many I've seen.

Again, the LINKED thread was GREAT and only one or two fired up posts for which you have your apology herein. Hunter's second response in the first thread even gave you lots of high fives for what he's read on your part in the past.

:shrug: Sorry, I don't see it. I've gotten blasted a whole helluva lot more for really stupid stuff. :+

Cheers! Feel better soon!!

EDIT: How the hell did this get to GREATEST?! :wow:

[BrklynLiberal]

120. The most interestng part of the thread was the title and its implications.

I am more and more inclined to think that Calipari WAS the target and he was shot by a sharpshooter, and the rest was all a distraction.
To be shot in the temple in the midst of 400 shots is quite an accomplishment. Wonder how hard they will work to find which gun that bullet came from?
Now that is real fodder for the tinfoil hat people...such as me.

[Warren DeMontague]

121. Will, to be fair...

looking at the thread I see about half the posters agreeing with you, slightly less than half engaging in civil disagreement with your point using rational rebuttals, and approximately two posters doing the stuff you describe. The guy with the gannon comment, and the guy who thinks you're part of the cover-up. (Pretty deep cover, too.)

*on edit: it appears that one of those two people has since apologized to you, too.*

I'm not sure that constitutes anything close to a "DU orthodoxy".

I agree with your point, though. If we stifle free and rational exchange of views we are no better than the other guy. I've had it happen to me for daring to question certain people's tightly-held orthodoxy on certain pet issues. It sucks, but overall I think most people here are pretty fair-minded, even in disagreement.

[ultraist]

130. I think that thread was a walk in the park compared to real critics

JMO

[bpilgrim]

132. link please

who thinks he's part of the cover up?

peace

[Warren DeMontague]

134. It is entirely possible I misunderstood what you wrote.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3238385&mesg_id=3238654&page=

"pushing" a cover story and being part of a cover-up are not the same thing.

on edit: for the record, I personally don't know WHAT to think of this specific incident. When someone gets shot my first inclination is to take their version of events above everyone else's.

[bpilgrim]

135. thats right, i wasn't saying he was part of it

just pushing that side of the story before the facts are in is irresponsible AND i am getting tired of being attacked for alledgedly doing exactly what the attackers are doing 'goin with their gut' :crazy:

i only pointed to another plausible explanation which because apparently it doesn't fit pitt's assumptions i am attacked and smeared.

not only am i surprised that it's coming from will who i have a great deal of respect for it's hurtful.

anyways... thanks for responding and clarifying.

:hi:

peace

[Warren DeMontague]

137. Peace.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

:hi:

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Donailin]

141. Deja Vu

Yep. except I said "unbecoming" which got me filtered.

[WilliamPitt]

150. I know whining

and this wasn't whining.

I can do whining if you'd like. :)

[LittleClarkie]

125. You think that's bad, stand up for Terry in Florida

and against her husband, then watch as hilarity ensues.

[SmokingJacket]

126. But you *are* DU orthodoxy!

Seriously, I thought that thread was pretty thoughtful and level headed. I guess I didn't read the reactionary posts. But all threads have them.

You get far more flowers thrown at your feet than most posters around here -- deservedly so. I count myself among your legion of fans.

So you're sick of the conspiracy folks and the character assassins. Well... I'm sick of the people who dump on DUers, as if we're all in the same goddamn boat, as if we should be ashamed to post here.

Good fricking night.

[Cuban_Liberal]

127. "...if you don't buy into the conspiracy-du-jour. You're working for Bush"

God Almighty, did you say a mouthful there! Hang in there, Will--- sanity is still needed.

:hi:

[ultraist]

128. I saw 2 or 3 personal insults and the rest of the comments were civil

And there were some insightful remarks. I'd say that's pretty good for a DU thread that bears an OP that gives the Bush admin the benefit of the doubt. ;)

I've seen ad hominem attacks here, but I wouldn't go so far to label all of DU as "chewing up anyone" who is not in "lockstep" with the "DU Orthodoxy."

From my observations, most posters here compliment your work and some nearly worship you, Wil.

That's just my small perspective on the situation though. I have not been here nearly as long as many.

[bpilgrim]

151. link please

thanks in advance

peace

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

148. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slackmaster]

133. Try posting something about cats

Stating an opinion about allowing your cat to go outside, or declawing, will get you in deep shit.

[Warren DeMontague]

139. Don't get me started on that.

I got yelled at by a cat boarding place a couple years ago. I'm like, "YOU try keeping the little f*cker inside". It's obvious to me that his 'quality of life' is much better when he's out than when he sits by the door 24-7, 7 days a week, HOWLING to be let out.

Oh, and declawing? Yeah. It's cruel and unnatural, right? Those same people don't seem to have a problem with neutering, however. For some reason there isn't nearly the same indignation about cutting the cat's nuts off. I bet if I asked my cat, he'd rather have his balls than his claws. Just a hunch.

[trumad]

136. Nah... I just fuck with you cause you're a Bastard Pat's fan.

;-)

[Helga Scow Stern]

138. URL for Will Pitt Military Porn

?
I looked all the way through both threads and didn't see it. :shrug:

[lostnfound]

181. Betcha he charges more than $200 per hour

Buyable is one thing, but cheaper than Gannon would be a tragedy.

;-)

[Q]

142. I understand what you're saying...

...but aren't you doing what the Bush Regime does when they label those who disagree with them as 'conspiracy nuts' or worse?

The truth is that neither YOU or those you suggest are 'conspiracy theorists' have enough information to form conclusions. You're both dealing in speculation.

Coincidentally...many journalists/photographers/videographers and anti-war activists have been 'accidentally' killed in Iraq. Are these planned or deliberate assassinations? There is no way to find out with a broken justice system and the death of investigative journalism.

But can you really blame anyone for not trusting ANY kind of news that comes out of the middle east? The irony is the American taxpayers are paying for the most extensive propaganda machine ever to exist in the WH.

[ultraist]

147. I agree with most of what you said

Particularly this: "But can you really blame anyone for not trusting ANY kind of news that comes out of the middle east? The irony is the American taxpayers are paying for the most extensive propaganda machine ever to exist in the WH. "

Those bastards have not only being lying about this war from day one, they continue to feed us propaganda funded by OUR TAX DOLLARS. It's absolutely sickening.

[Lexingtonian]

146. There's a problem

inherent in catering to people who are somewhat hysterical. You can't expect them to keep it to a reasonable level. Around here people do binge between depression- defeatism- and, well, manias- conspiracy oriented theorizing and the like. To be blunt, you are part of this game and presently have a major personal investment in it continuing, it being a market where there's always a demand for the one of the two elements not presently being binged upon.

The other element involved is larger picture, and it is a current Party-internal argument about what the political fighting of the past fifteen years against the radical Right was for, precisely. If this fight has been a drawn-out reiteration of the Civil War, which in many ways IMHO it has, for the Democratic side this is the equivalent of the January 1865 debate in Washington about the 13th Amendment- a minority of the leadership and base, with dubious loyalties, thinks it possible- and the best policy- to reinstitute status quo ante bellum. The other side says there's no going back, only forward.

This argument within the DNC is trickling down to DU, of course, and we have people feeling it's time to dredge up all kinds of people already proven obsolete by events as their hobby horse champions. We have all kinds of misreporting and misunderstanding of the Kerry-Reid argument. We have all kinds of people sensing that the Party has temporarily suspended having a fixed identity, has ended the armistice between 'moderates' and 'liberals' and is somehow giving up its particular stance derivative from the Constitution from the defensive one clung to for forty years. There is an internal redefinition or refocussing at work, and a lot of DUers are being either reactionary or opportunistic at the moment- in any case, intensifying their loudness and disorganized thinkings. That accounts for the anarchic state of GD and GD:P, to me.

I plead guilty to being a part of the problem. I plead guilty to trying to be part of the solution and having a pretty strong set of opinions about where things will end up, and how, and to some degree when. As for Giuliana Sgrena and Nicola Calipari, they're only small and unfortunate victims of the part of the world that insists on certain varieties and levels of barbarism remaining socially acceptable- to what extent planning and accident were involved is not really the part of their story that matters.

[ultraist]

176. WHATever..."somewhat hysterical?"

"...people who are somewhat hysterical. You can't expect them to keep it to a reasonable level. Around here people do binge between depression- defeatism- and, well, manias- conspiracy oriented theorizing and the like."

Right, we are all just liberal loonies nuts, "binging on depression-defeatism--and, well, manias" here, with nothing valid to say. :eyes:

These threads always end up in criticizing all progressives for not drinking the kool aid.

[Bluebear]

189. 'Depressed, defeated, manic & hysterical.'

Wow.

[datasuspect]

153. amazing

self delete

[nomatrix]

155. You usually take pleasure in verbal fencing

and in a battle of wits, you are always armed. What happened?

"But it is amazing how quickly you get chewed up around here if you don't buy into the conspiracy-du-jour."

When is the last time you visited September 11th thread?

You get eaten alive if you DO buy into anything the dares to question the official story.

That's just the way it is, baby.

66,022 registered on DU.

In my opinion, "WE" have been very supportive of your journalistic integrity, and don't need to be chastised as a group in a separate thread.

[LilBitRad]

157. As one of the newest members of this board,

May I give you my take on this.

I've been reading DU for several months, and have enjoyed the commentary on any number of subjects.

I delayed signing up for any number of reasons, the first of which is that I am, by nature, an observer and quite content to read the views of others, do some research, and formulate my own opinions. I'm an old guy and have seen much in my years, and have some rather strong feelings about some of the issues that face us all, some of those opinions would cause knee jerk reactions, I'd rather not deal with.

The biggest reason I hadn't registered was that I have observed a tendency to shout down a dissenting opinion or label someone a troll rather quickly by some folks here. Not all, but some, and wondered about the appearance of a tendency to march to the beat of the same drum.

In my 60 plus years, I've found, progressives do not do the lockstep thing very well. If we did, we wouldn't be progressive.

There are some discussions threads I would never post a comment on, but that comes from reading the forum for a long time, and recognizing the potential traps. Other times the traps are not readily apparent to many newcomers.

When I see a respected member of DU such as Will Pitt having to don a flame proof suit because of an opinion, I sometimes question my reasons for being here, but I've been coming here for so long, it's a little like home.

I know it's a big tent, and everyone here has opinions about most everything. That's a good thing. Open and honest discussion; a free exchange of ideas; sound and reasoned arguments stimulate the learning process.

From my days in the 60's, QUESTION AUTHORITY!
From my days in the 70's 80's and 90's, QUESTION EVERYTHING!
From today, the question is; What's for dinner?

[ohio_liberal]

159. ...

I will update my prostitution website

How much? Top or bottom?? :evilgrin:

[Egalitariat]

161. Imagine what it would have been w/ a low post count......

you would have been banned.

[Stirk]

167. Has your ego been stroked enough yet?

It'd be nice if they'd lock this thread, as it's basically an attack on one or two posters and an insult to the rest, sycophants included.

[bpilgrim]

172. agreed, i believe it is against DU rules to accuse other evil DU'ers in

public threads.

or is this a new orthodoxy?

or will this be the first 'greatest' thread to be locked?

peace

[bpilgrim]

178. accussatory thread attacking DU'ers perspectives makes the GREATEST page

:puke:

so if an inquiry doesn't conform to willPitts orthodoxy he is allowed to start a whole seperate thread attack other DU'ers and it makes the greatest page... oh, the irony.

:eyes:

peace

[coreystone]

180. This is "standard operating procedure" - :-)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=251823

Usually condescending and very little regard for anyone else's "orthodoxy"!

:-)

[Vanje]

168. I get frustrated too.

There are more than a few Bone-heads here.
But what do I know. It could be the poisonous chem-trails talkin.

[QC]

169. OMG!!! Will, have they gotten to you, too?

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[Carni]

170. I think it probably was deliberate but base line how would I know?

I have been scorched on here a few times for being conspiratorial when I have basically "thought out loud" on these boards (and in some cases I wasn't even sure if I even agreed with my OWN posted opinion)

The bottom line is we all have our thoughts about this incident (and every other topic for that matter) but when push comes to shove none of us know for sure.

I think it's crap when a gaggle of people attack a poster over mere speculation--and if you are a troll you have certainly been under deep cover LOL

[Rex]

173. There's no such thing as bad publicity!

Will, when are you going to go 1 on 1 with Gannon the Cannon? :evilgrin:

$5 bux on Will!

[ohio_liberal]

175. Going one on one

will cost you $200 :evilgrin:

[Name removed]

184. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

185. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElectroPrincess]

187. Mahn, this is shocking ... in the course of one mere week I've

discovered, to my horror, that both WilliamPitt and Jon Stewart are not perfect "in my definition" of progressive.

My point: Let's give them (Will and Jon, etc.) and all of us some slack? :-)

[Name removed]

188. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moderator]

191. Locking

The point has been made, and no more good can come out of continuing the argument.