Isnt it amazing that Italy can draw 20,000 to protest for it citizens

[BigBearJohn]

overnite. Talk about passion! I may have to move to Europe.
They seem to care about human life and TRUTH!!!!

[BuyingThyme]

1. We suffer the same loss every day.

Yet we have to look to Italy to remember what it really means.

Thanks CM!

[MellowOne]

3. I posted on another thread

That most European countries would never stand for the scandals we put up with in our government, they would do something about it. But I was told I was wrong.

[BigBearJohn]

4. Stick to your guns. You're right-on!! Just look at all the times THOUSANDS

rose to protest in Europe. They care about human beings.

[MellowOne]

14. I appreciate your comments

My grandparents as well as their friends in France are furious about our politician situation, especially the war and the stolen election. They don't understand why we aren't protesting. I tell them we are but MSM doesn't cover it so word doesn't get out. If it wasn't for the internet, we wouldn't know what is really happening. They say the Ukraine overturned an fraudulent election but we can't. They don't understand Americans at all.

[Frederik]

18. You were right

I can't ever imagine the French, Spanish or Italians putting up with the kind of crap Washington serves on a daily basis. There'd be general strikes, mass demonstrations, burning tires in the streets, horse manure in front of the parliament. That happens quite frequently, most notably perhaps in France. Especially with a thing like Social Security. Try to take away the welfare benefits from a European... A certain level of corruption is more often tolerated though.

The Italians have admittedly put up with a lot of Berlusconi's crap till now, but at least the magistrates are after him.

[Robbien]

2. Italy has a comprehensive alternative media system

They have been living under the propaganda system so long that their alternative media gets the word out to the masses. What we are lacking is a strong alternative media. The majority of US masses still believe in ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN and have no idea they are being screwed.

[forgethell]

9. I don't see how

you can believe this statement that you made: The majority of US masses still believe in ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN and have no idea they are being screwed. ???

We don't trust them. The RW loathes them. Who's left??

[rman]

16. who's left to watch the MSM:

"we" as in DU-ers and like-minded dems are a minority.

The RW only loathes the MSM if and when it mentions something that's critical of the RW government - only then we get to hear their "liberal media bias" meme. That's very rarely these days, which is testemony to the fact that the media have a RW bias.
Basically the MSM is a corporatist/RW propaganda tool, so there's very little reason for the Right to "loath" the MSM.

That leaves plenty of people to believe in the MSM.

[forgethell]

23. "so there's very little reason for the Right to "loath" the MSM"

And yet they do. Amazing, isn't it? It is not "rarely" that you hear criticism of "left-wing" media bias, it is all the time.

Of course, there are those who are spoon-fed their news, as you say, but no thinking person believes in an unbiased media anymore. Actually, I think that's a good thing. It doesn't matter, really, where you get your news, as long as you are able to discount the opinions, and concentrate on the "facts", whether they are true, or not, and, if true, are they relevant, or not. So many true 'facts' are not relevant.

[rman]

25. Got evidence showing the RW loathes the MSM?

CNN, NBC, ABC etc broadcast a litany of praise for the * admin, on a daily basis - if only by not asking critical questions.

You don't hear the "liberal media bias" meme from the RW when CNN etc are going along with Bush's SS plan - and the MSM do that all the time: not being critical of the admin. The war is going great, the economy is doing great, there's nothing worth mentioning wrt medicare. Sure, the RW just hates it when the 'liberal' media do that...


"..those who are spoon-fed their news, as you say, but no thinking person believes.."

That's the majority, or at least a very significant part of the electorate.
Bush probably did win the elections by cheating, but he didn't fudge the numbers that much; it's not that in reality only a very tiny minority voted for him and all the rest of the 51% is fraudulent.

[forgethell]

28. Well, anecdotal.

I live in a conservative part of the country. I work, play, socialize with conservatives as well as liberals. I've talked to many of them, and universally they thought the MSM was biased in the left-ward direction, and what was worse, that they lied about it. Not like Fox, which they (some of them) admitted might be RW. At least Fox was honest, in their view. MSM was hypocritical.

This was the universal thought among my conservative acquaintances. EVERY ONE. How widespread it may be elsewhere, I have no idea. But remember, these are the sheeple. Group think.

[rman]

29. ok, i guess i overlooked the fact

that many conservatives do believe the RW meme that the MSM have a liberal bias.
Obviously that is causing them to dislike the MSM.

I guess my point would be that they aren't trying very hard to be objective in their judgment of the MSM, evidenced by the fact that "some of them" think FOX "might be" RW.

I think the argument still holds that if you look at what the MSM is saying, most of it by far is in fact pro-RW - like i said earlier: if only because they do not ask critical questions of the current RW regime. That's not a liberal bias, nor is it reason for RW-ers to loath the MSM.
In my mind it can't be any other way then that there are many more occasions for RW-ers where they are watching the MSM while not hating it for it's liberal bias (simply because there is none most of the time), then occasions where they could have some reason to think the MSM have a liberal bias.

But apparently that doesn't stop them from thinking the MSM have a liberal bias, and hating the media for it.

[mimitabby]

30. let's see, i'll start with my stepfather.. who voted for b*

and called Giuliana Sgrena a communist bitch.

[American Tragedy]

5. Well, it's pretty demoralizing to protest over and over again

and continually see no reaction from anybody or any mention from the press. Call me bitter, or cynical, but if nobody cares, and it doesn't engender any dialogue, it seems fairly pointless. And I'd probably have to make it a full-time job with the sheer weight of failure coming from this administration.

[KoKo]

6. We've had thousands protesting since before Iraq Invasion in large

protests in the major cities but also and ongoing vigils and protests over Sinclair, SS, Bush and Cheney in cities all over the US. But, the media doesn't cover the small ones at all, and the large ones the numbers are always understated and few photo's are show except on C-Span.

We've been doing our job...but if they don't see it on CNN, they don't exist..the protestors. It's hard enough to even give covered on our local channels.

[BiggJawn]

7. Guess they don't have "Fat Actress" over there.

Or "Survivor", or any OTHER flavour of "Must-See Teeee-Veeee" us Murkan Sheeple numb ourselves with.

53,000,000 stupid fucking idiots in this country.

[quinnox]

8. Welcome to Bush's Amurika

Where American Idol and The Apprentice are what people talk about with great interest

[LibDemAlways]

11. Don't forget "Desperate Housewives"

I was invited to a neighbor's home for lunch one day with some other local women, and when I walked in they were all breathlessly talking about that show.

If I had a dime for every time someone's said to me, "I don't talk politics" or "Let's just agree to disagree," I could retire.

[Evergreen Emerald]

13. Stepford citizens!

You are scaring me!

[he lied us into war]

10. They probably have an honest media in italy

In america everybody knows that protests against bush are ignored by the press. And then there's the free speech zones.

[newyawker99]

12. Hi he lied us into war!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[rman]

20. The Italian President personally owns 80% of the Italian media,

so it is to be expected those media are not going to be honest about what the Italian governments does. Remember that Italy belongs to New Europe, which means the government went to war against the will of the majority of the people.

Because the conflict of interest is so obvious, possibly the Italian people have learned to cope with this better then Americans have. The US also has honest media such as Air America Radio, Democracy Now, The Nation, Mother Jones and several others - but very few Americans ever listen/watch/read those.

[mimitabby]

32. not all the media, not most of the major papers

it's the same as here, in that respect, it's the tv channels
he owns.

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. Not really, no.

Silvio Berlusconi pretty much controls the Italian media (broadcast, not print). Not only does he own the largest media conglomerate in the country, but he also controls the state-owned networks. Although about some things, they're probably still more honest than most US media.

And I rather think that Berlusconi may realise that this sentiment is a good thing, as a closer alignment with the rest of the EU on policy matters would prove more beneficial to Italy in the long run...

[AG78]

15. Consumers

We're not citizens. I hear the word citizen less and less everyday. "What's good for the consumer", "we're just trying to do what's best for the American consumer", "low prices are good for consumers", "the new bankruptcy laws will be good for the consumer", is all you hear anymore.

That is the mindset in this country by too many citi...consumers. It's something we need to change before we can worry about getting the populace to wake up, rise up, and start doing the right thing for their fellow citizens.

[tinonedown]

17. I think we do well here...occassionally

Though we could have done much better protesting the '04 election debacle.

[tom_paine]

19. Well, Europe IS the remaining center of the Free World

I would expect them to act no differently.

[rman]

21. Only thanks to the European people - not so much governments

With Italy belonging to the coalition of the willing, of what significance is it wrt the "center of the Free World"?

Also presumably only a minority in Italy is activist, much like it is in the US.
I'd say we have somewhat of a distributed center of the free world.

[tom_paine]

24. Perhaps they have a trustworthy voting system and a Free Press?

Those two things alone distinguish them from Imperial Amerika and, unlike Imperial Amerika, places them firmly in the Free World.

Are they perfect? Of course not. But as Amerika looks RELATIVELY good, government and press-wise, compared to Saddam's Iraq, so do Italy, France, Britain ("Coalition of the Bribed" notwithstanding), and the rest of the Free World compare to the untrustworthy voting, degenerated legislature, corrupt, parasitized courts quite favorably.

The differences between the Free World and the BushPutinist World will grow more pronounced and more obvious as time goes on, provided the Free World remains so and doesn't embrace BushPtuinism itself.

[rman]

26. Italy certainly has no free press,

with Berlusconi owning most of the big Italian media corporations.
What's better then being President and having Murdoch on your side? That is to be both president *and* Murdoch (metaphorically).

And apparently that's ok with the rest of Europe, since Italy is allowed to be part of the European union.

The situation in Europe isn't as bad is it now is in the US, but we're well on our way.
Just one example: the media stories here about that Italian journalist do not mention that all her articles were critical of *, nor do the stories mention the fact that the survivors of the attack claim they were not driving at high speed, and that they were not approaching a road block.
The "approaching a roadblock at high speed" is the official explanation for this "incident".

[tom_paine]

27. Oh yes, there can be no doubt BushPutinism is a danger to the Free World

You aren't as bad as the AE (US is an anachronistic term referring to the Old American Republic, which no longer exists, we are the AE Amerikan Empire), which means you can still be considererd in the Free World.

Berlusconi is bad, and maybe it will turn out you were BushPutinist all along, but for now, I put in the column of the evershrinking Free World.

Just my opinion.

[mimitabby]

31. he doesn't own all the major newspapers