Right-wing site calls DUers "inmates" re: Italian journalist story

[katinmn]

According to Little Green Footballs, liberals are giddy with excitement over the * administrations latest foible.

"The inmates of Democratic Underground are beside themselves with glee, of course, accusing our soldiers of murder with no evidence. (But don’t forget, they support the troops!)"

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=14947_The_Radical_Lefts_Cause_du_Jour&only=yes

I wouldn't call it giddy. I'd say appalled is more like it.

[Hobarticus]

1. Apparently we're appalled for all the wrong reasons, to them...eom

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. Giddy? "beside ourselves with glee?"

I haven't read one "gleeful" post about this. How about OUTRAGE??!@#$%^&^%$# You fucking asshole!

The RW wacko spin never ceases to amaze me. :grr:

[FreedomAngel82]

44. Yep

We're all so excited. :eyes:

[beam me up scottie]

3. We really should believe

our government, I mean, it's not like they ever LIED to us or anything.

[Bridget Burke]

4. Interesting....

In our first few threads on the story, most DU'ers wanted investigation--wanted to get to the bottom of the story. US policy in general & the higher-ups were critized. The tinfoil-hattier ones saw a conspiracy against the press--& thought that "hit squads" might be involved--NOT regular soldiers.

Then, a couple of posters asked "Why are you against the troops?" & indicated that all DU'ers called all US soldiers war criminals--all the time. THEY turned the threads around.

And then went to post on the other sites, apparently. At least one came back & said: "Look at what they're saying--we'll be marginalized!" (That one's been tombstoned.)

[FreedomAngel82]

45. Does anybody

know what is being said about this at FR?

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynnTheDem]

6. Well let's see...

Did US troops murder Nicola Calapari?

Yes, in fact, they did. They killed him, which even in war is called HOMICIDE. Some HOMICIDES are classified as "justified" and "legal", such as in wars and state executions, but even executions in the USA are listed as "cause of death; HOMICIDE".

That doesn't mean those soldiers are war criminals; it means they did in fact kill Calapari and that at this point we don't know if the killing (HOMICIDE) was justified or not.

Someone gave those troops the order to fire 300-400 rounds at that car. Who and why? That is who is ultimately responsible for the death of Calipari, and whether it was a justified HOMICIDE or not is the question.

LGF morans should step outside their little fantasy world for a minute, and read the news headlines around the world; it isn't just DUers wondering if the bush administration gave orders to target journalists, including Sgrena.

Edited to HOMICIDE. ;)

[katinmn]

9. yup, and Scottie claiming suspicians that the attack

was intentional are "absurd" just fans the flames.

Where is the car?
Where are the soldiers that fired?
Who told them to fire?
Where are the eye witnesses?

I'm sure all of the above will miraculously materialize in a few days after the military brass gets its cover-ups all in order. By then the world will be focusing on a fresh new Bush fuck-up. They come so damn quickly.

[Junkdrawer]

13. Time to find worn spare parts from similar vehicles...

Replace the swiss-cheesed doors and make it look like a shot or two to the engine ricocheted.

[FreedomAngel82]

46. I wonder

How many fuck ups is this from BushCo now? Anybody keeping count anymore? I think I've lost count. :crazy:

[maxudargo]

10. I just have to point out

your logic is wrong. Or at least your definition of murder.

"They killed him, which even in war is called murder." That's false. We don't consider soldiers who have killed people in combat to be murderers or the act of a soldier killing someone in combat to be murder. And if these soldiers fired on the car because they thought it threatened them, even though non-combatants were killed it wouldn't be called murder.

Where the right gets ammunition for the kind of claims discussed here is when people on the left throw all sense to the wind. I don't know what happened on that road, but my first assumption is not going to be that soldiers deliberately tried to murder a recently freed Italian journalist as she made her way to the airport. If nothing else, that doesn't make much sense politically.

[The Magistrate]

17. Indeed, Sir

No lawful killing is murder. People tend to use the word as meaning any killing, or any killing of which they disapprove, but its real meaning is a killing that is criminal under law.

[LynnTheDem]

19. Excuse me but that is incorrect, sir. The US govt lists death by US state

executions, LEGAL executions, as "cause of death; MURDER".

[AlienGirl]

24. No, it lists them as "homicide"

"Homicide" means that a person was killed by another person. "Murder" is unlawful homicide.

Tucker

[LynnTheDem]

18. Facts are just facts. If the rightwingnuttery can't handle facts, too bad

for them. If they cannot understand what my post says, too bad for them. If they have to stretch and twist what I said to demonize liberals, that's fine.

I will not adjust or ignore facts to cater to rightwingnuts who can't handle the facts.

Killing someone is homecide. Some homecides are legal. But they are still classified as homecide. Murder.

Again, the US government itself classifies death by State execution as "MURDER".

And that's just a fact. ;)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

21. Your "Facts" Are Incorrect

Even in a lay dictionary, murder is defined as the unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

In law, murder has an even more precise meaning which deals heavily with issues of mens rea (state of mind) and malice.

Murder is not an interchangeable term for killing, and it is seldom applicable in a combat or wartime situation.

DTH

[LynnTheDem]

35. No problem.

I've corrected my post to HOMICIDE so as not to upset the rightwingnuts who couldn't figure out that my post was NOT against the soldiers who killed (HOMICIDED) Calapari.

And just FYI as to why I've always believed murder was any killing of another, whether legal or not:

CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 12

12. Murder

A person commits murder if he or she causes the death of another person:

a) intending to cause the death of any person;

But I live & learn. :)

[maxudargo]

39. If there was an a) there was at least a b)

Only if those soldiers deliberately tried to kill the journalist should you be using the word murder. If they deliberately tried to kill the people in the car thinking those people were enemy combatants and a potential threat to them, the word "murder" does not apply.

I'm sorry, but your sloppy use of the language contributes nothing to the discussion, and creates an opportunity for those who want to mischaracterize leftists. I wish you would be a little more careful in your word choices and a lot less stubborn.

It makes no sense the soldiers would have been ordered to shoot the journalist. It makes no political sense. Look at the results in terms of the political fallout in Italy and the bind in which it puts Berlusconi, a steady Bush ally so far. The shooting does nothing to further the Bush agenda. Quite the opposite.

If the soldiers deliberately targeted the journalist without orders from above, they were being awfully stupid considering the spotlight on this person.

I think the important, and rational, insight this incident provides is how chaotic and out of control the situation in Iraq is even now, and even on a key road to the Baghdad international airport, which you would think would be the one road we'd have tightly secured by now.

Until somebody has some evidence to suggest there was a deliberate conspiracy to murder the journalist, I think it is foolish to speculate so wildly. I think there are questions that need to be answered, but we'll have to rely on the Italians to ask them, unless you've got a lead.

[LynnTheDem]

41. No they weren't "deliberately" trying to kill anyone; they just hit that

car with 300-400 rounds as a warning. Of course they were deliberately trying to kill the car's occupants; the thing I was TRYING to point out in my post is the fact that WE DON'T KNOW if it was justified or not.

And it's not "my sloppy use of the language"; it's my having used NON-AMERICAN definitions. I'll make sure in future to google for American legal definitions in future, because not all nations have the same definitions, such as the 2 countries not America that I spent years of my life living in.

I really do think my OP was still quite clear that I was NOT accusing our troops of a CRIME:

That doesn't mean those soldiers are war criminals; it means they did in fact kill Calapari and that at this point we don't know if the killing (HOMICIDE *originally posted as "murder") was justified or not.

[maxudargo]

42. I'm glad you changed "murder" to "homicide."

"Again, the US government itself classifies death by State execution as "MURDER".

And that's just a fact."

That's where you went wrong, and if you don't think you were accusing the troops of comitting a crime, it is only because you don't understand the definition of the word "murder" as it is and has been used in every English-speaking country on Earth throughout history.

I guess I have trouble believing you didn't think "murder" meant a criminal killing. Regardless, in the future, you might not assert such fallacies so strongly and with the CAPS LOCK on.

[LynnTheDem]

49. Not in "every English-speaking country on earth throughout history"

But I apologize for my use of a word, regardless of what my entire post actually said, that could upset the rightwingnuts!

And you are welcome to having all the trouble you like; read my entire post. I made it VERY CLEAR that the (insert preferred noun for despatching a human to Heaven) of Calapari may or may not be justified and that having (chosen noun) him does NOT mean our troops are war criminals.

Have a nice day. :)

Edit to add an interesting comment I just rec'd; the American genocide of Native Americans was legal.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynnTheDem]

Actually...

We don't know theyw eren't trying to kill the car's occupants.

1. They refused for an hour to get medics to the scene.

2. What if the Italian troops and the US colonel waiting 700 meters down the road for the car to appear any minute heard the shots fired and came to investigate?

I believe the 2 Italian secret service agents for now.

But nothing can possibly make any real sense without us having all the facts, and that is something we have next to none of.

[chlamor]

68. Yeom(wo)man Work Lynn

But "you gotta get your mind right" (Cool Hand Luke)-whether it's murder, homicide, massacre, slaughter, genocide is beside the point. We'll let the lawyers bicker on the technicalities. They had ELECTIONS you see we have brought them democracy. There is a Burger King at Baghdad airport (true) and soon they will get MTV. Freedom is on the march. I'm trying to help you ya see.

Or we could go to Monty Python "Let's not bicker over who killed who..."

This discussion gives me a queasy feeling.

A toast to you and a tear to the children of Iraq. Peace.

[LynnTheDem]

71. Ahhh yes, I see the light!

My mind has been set Right!

I'm so excited, all 6 of my nipples are tingling! (Red Dwarf)

And if I may, as yours says it all;

A toast to you and a tear to the children of Iraq. Peace.

[Ms. Clio]

66. Actually

We haven't heard "the soldiers' side of the story," only the Pentagon's version of it.

And she says that she wasn't given medical attention for at least 20 minutes.

Maybe it was 600 bullets--nobody was counting.

Say, where is the car, that should clear a lot of these mysteries up, don't you think?

[LynnTheDem]

72. I suspect the poster isn't overly concerned with any facts.

I love the DU "search by author" feature.

[Ms. Clio]

73. I know, but I can't resist

That's one of my fave features, too.

[LynnTheDem]

75. LOL!

I play with my food, too. It's that feline thing. :D

[Ms. Clio]

76. I just loves meeces to pieces :D

[LynnTheDem]

78. Oooh I love your stripes!

Gonna share that food? I'm feeling a mite peckish myself. :D

[Ms. Clio]

79. Oh, yes, there is more than enough for both of us :D

[LynnTheDem]

81. Especially lately.

:D

[Ms. Clio]

82. It's almost becoming a chore to keep up with them all ;)

[LynnTheDem]

83. No kidding!

LOL!

[ebayfool]

85. You & Lynn have been very busy - a pleasure to watch in action!

[Ms. Clio]

86. Heheheheh---thanks dj!!

On a more serious note, I have also been appreciating your thoughtful and well-reasoned posts this evening.

[96 Tears]

88. Of course the car wasn't hit with 300-400 rounds

If it were hit with that many rounds of ball ammo, everyone inside would have been reduced to the consistancy of ground chuck. He was killed with a single shot to the head and she was only lightly wounded.

[Voltaire]

51. You are applying a rational argument

To an irrational entity, re: The Bush Maladministration.

They are murderers until proven incompetent.

[LynnTheDem]

53. LOL!

Wait a minute...haven't they already been proven incompetent? We even have a Republican senator who said "Well that's the incompetency of this administration".

:D

[Voltaire]

54. Well, you know that....and I know that

I just wanted to give them a range of choices. There are no others.

[LynnTheDem]

55. Three choices, imo;

bush & Cartel are the biggest liars on the planet...

or

bush & Cartel are the most incompetent idiots on the planet...

or

both.

[Voltaire]

56. I vote....BOTH

And in a most sickening fashion, the hits just keep on coming. And I do mean HITS

[LynnTheDem]

57. That was my own vote, too.

And the latest hits; the bankruptcy "screw the people some more" bill and the minimum wage "screw the people some more" bill.

[seriousstan]

15. Murder is the unlawful killing. It is a criminal act. Killing in war

is seldom called murder unless it is unlawful. There are justified and legal killings but not murders.

On edit.....homicide is listed as the cause of death on the death certificate of people who the state executes.

[LynnTheDem]

20. US State LEGAL executions; death certificate cause of death; MURDER.

And that's a fact.

Some use "homicide".

Edit: Just had a US execution death certificate awhile back showing "cause; murder"; trying to find link...

[seriousstan]

22. Show me a link, I have several stating otherwise....and that's a fact.

http://college.hmco.com/psychology/resources/instructors/shelves/shelves_20020504.html

http://www.phadp.org/opinion-rieber2004.htm

http://www.azdeathpenalty.org/main.htm from this page....."Fact: the death certificate of an executed person lists the cause of death as homicide".

[seriousstan]

25. homecide has no definition, HOMICIDE on the other hand does.....

the killing of a human being by another human being. Think along the lines of pesticide and herbicide. It is simply the killing of a human.

[LynnTheDem]

31. Yes thanks for kindly pointing out my spelling error!

I appreciate it, especially as you never make any, and I'm trying to reach your standards. ;)

[seriousstan]

34. Try my trick, I use the "check spelling" key to the left of the "post" key

I hope I have also helped you with the difference between murder and homicide.

[LynnTheDem]

36. Depends which nation's definition, it seems

CRIMES ACT 1900 - SECT 12

12. Murder
A person commits murder if he or she causes the death of another person:

a) intending to cause the death of any person;

or

b) with reckless indifference to the probability of causing the death of any person.

Murder is the act of killing another human being with "malice aforethought". Malice aforethought is defined to be the intent to kill or to inflict bodily injury, either express or implied.

http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/violent_crimes/murder.htm

[PleadTheFirst]

7. Well, look at it this way ...

How could we question someone who runs a site called "Little Green Footballs"? I mean, the guy is obviously a real intellectual heavy-hitter.

:eyes:

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Excuse me, but any objective American would take the following

in consideration:

1) We have the precedent of Mai Lai
2) Reports that soldiers seeking asylum in Canada claimed that among our soldiers in Iraq there are some soldiers behaving like psychotic killers.
3) Prison guards who not only tortured prisoners, but a CIA who seems to have permission to fly suspects to places were it might be legal for them to be rough on prisoners.

And the biggest credibility problem of all: All evidence appears to point to the fact that we are in Iraq for no honorable reason, and no one in a position of power seems to be doing a damn thing about rectifying the problem by pulling our soldiers out.

[DinahMoeHum]

12. Given this "mis-Administration"'s track record of deceit. . .

I wouldn't put anything past them.

:evilfrown:

[madrchsod]

11. little green footballs?????

who could really give a shit what these circle jerks and jills think? they can all go fuck themselves.

ask yourselves why is this important what the people at lgf think about us? would we care if the troopers at stormfront posted something about us? would we have this many reactions on something they said about us? oh well just my opinion....

[katinmn]

32. I think its always worth sharing when DU is referenced or linked.

It's our community. We should know what others -- friends and foes --are saying about us.

BTW, I learned about the Football site by reading Media Channel http://www.mediachannel.org/ One of my favorite alternative media sites.

[madrchsod]

38. yes i think the same, we should share...

but all these threads? this discussion should really be put to rest.

[Frederik]

14. Good one

"I believe that she hoped US troops would fire on her car and ergo instructed the driver not to slow down at the checkpoint. I do not believe she wanted anyone to get hurt and certainly not die, but she did not count on the efficiency of our soldiers. This was supposed to be a "gotcha" anti-war talking point, not a grisly tragedy. Of course, she will probably use the death to further her cause--attribute it to excellent improvisation skills.

I hope I'm mistaken, but this story seems somehow "wrong." "

[jdots]

29. that is an interesting take on this n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Little Green Footballs is..

somewhat more neanderthal than even Freepland. I would expect nothing less (or more, depending on how you look at it) than this from them.

The Footballs are nothing more than annoying little rat dogs yapping around our ankles and trying to bite with their tiny teeth.

[fleabert]

52. hey man, some of us have rat dogs! don't insult them by comparison!

[seemslikeadream]

23. A couple of them dropped in for a visit

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1289967&mesg_id=1289967

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

26. Small game. Me, I'm after the nearby big game

if you catch my drift.

[frankly_fedup2]

27. Giddy???? Oh yeah, I have laughed about it since I heard about the mix up!

It's so exciting to me I have a hard on about the whole thing . . . and I'm a female. (idiots)

"Little Green Footballs" needs to worry about its rather biased views of us on DU. There is a thin line between a biased opinion and slander with implication. Just ask the virgin Ann Coulter as well as the man whore Jeff Gannon aka John Guckert.

You obviously cannot take the heat of any disagreements because you will not allow anyone but members to post, and you are not accepting new members.

May I suggest next time, quote from your own backyard of freepers (of which the man whore is a member).

[killbotfactory]

28. To rightwingers, for them to win, we must lose

And vice versa. They don't comprehend scenarios where both sides lose or both sides win. Childish bullshit.

[RobertSeattle]

30. My parole date is 1/20/2009 - what's yours?

It was supposed to be 1/20/2005 but I got extended for good conduct...

[Crankie Avalon]

33. Never heard of this "little green footballs" business, before...

...and wasn't curious enough to click on the link and visit the site, but I would say I'm not at all "giddy" about what America is doing in the world today.

I'm actually "ashamed" and "angry" at the the people whose actions are making me more and more "ashamed" to be an American with seemingly each week that passes. I don't appreciate these people dragging my country's honor through the mud, whether they are big shots like Bush and Cheney, brainwashed soldiers who don't know any better blindly fighting a shameful, discredited cause shrouded in lies and deceit from the beginning over in Iraq, or dimwitted non-entities of the "little green footfalls" (and all other such websites) variety.

[oasis]

37. Not one DU poster has said "Our troops are murderers". Not one. However

there have been distortions of some poster's comments by other "members" who seem to have an agenda.

[LynnTheDem]

43. An agenda, or such fear of the rightwingnuts and how they may *gasp*

"distort" a single word we post!

Hello, liberals! Rightwingnuts will distort "God is great" if a "librul" posted it. We don't need bush to censor us; we do that out of fear of the rightwingnuttery all by ourselves. :eyes:

[Voltaire]

60. Right

They will twist what we say no matter what. So we might as well keep speaking the truth. My truth for today and every day. . .

May they all burn in fucking hell.

[LynnTheDem]

61. Exactly.

I refuse to waste time trying to compose posts that won't offend or otherwise upset rightwingnuts or that may be cherry-picked apart and used by them to say mean things about all liberals.

And imo that's one of the biggest problems Dems have today; they're too frightened to just spit it out;

BUSH LIED.

Invading Iraq was ILLEGAL.

TORTURE.

bush policy; outsourcing TORTURE.

bush WAR CRIMINAL

Pussy-footing around is useless and counter-productive.

[Yosie]

40. RW subversive fifth columnist trolling

for fellow travelers to join his anarcho-fascist cult and undermine the Republic.

<>

[spanone]

50. Wasn't that guy in Deliverance?

[spanone]

47. America now calls a 'lie' spinning. It's still a fuckin lie.

These bozos don't have a clue what they are talking about.

[Catherine Vincent]

48. What do you expect from a right wing website?

They'd follow Bush* over a cliff so who cares what they think.

[RuleofLaw]

58. I know I shouldnt look but I did and got a good laugh

This is one of the comments to the story:

"It is disgusting how the media don't interview each of the 115 people killed last week from terror, but let one pathetic journalist take a bullet and the frenzy begins.

Just one question: How would the media interview a person that is dead? :crazy:

[Scurrilous]

59. Good catch...

...the stupidity at that site is amazing.

[LynnTheDem]

62. They died from "TERROR"? The media should interview the DEAD PEOPLE

who were frightened to death?

:wow: :wow: :wow:

Rightwingnuts; truly the stupidest MFers on the planet. And soooo COMPASSIONATE.

[librechik]

64. yeah, I'm totally jazzed that another country wants to kill us

whoopee

are they deranged at LGF?

don't answer that. I already know.

[Ms. Clio]

65. Left-wing site calls LGF lying, photo-faking fascists

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3234761

I am giddy as hell to see them caught in their own lies--there is no depth to which they will not sink to conceal the truth.

[applegrove]

67. Yeah - why are we making decisions about this before we know the

facts? I mean if the soldiers killed a family two weeks ago ... we surely should not be surprised that they killed an escaping journalist.

Let us just wait. If we act goofy and don't wait for good information when it is plainly available then they will try and give us a bad name, and marginalize us.

That is why I hate the talk of conspiracy theories. The creeps are right there in front of our noses, sending foxes into the henhouses of every single department in the nation.

Why are some Du 'rs looking into machines.

Step back. The crap and nefariousness are everywhere.

[katinmn]

69. Don't forget Bulgaria.

They believe one of theirs was taken out by friendly US fire about the same time Calipari was taking his bullet in the forehead.

And the Iraqis are saying, "NOW people are starting to see. It's not safe to be in Iraq!"

[applegrove]

70. It all in the patterns. That is easier to trust.

[nolabels]

74. Hilarious, no evidence, .......... guess they are correct.................

The US military can't find the car.............can't find the car........can't find the car.........can't find the car.......we punctured it with over .......... we can't find the car, Yea, sure.


The only fools are the ones that think everything the government tells them is the truth unless of course you are G.W.B. then it is the truth no matter what. We won't taunt them though, we have better things to do :hi:

[w4rma]

77. I'm not "giddy", I'm ticked off. I think that guy is projecting his own

feelings onto the objects of his hate, or what he would feel if this happened under President Clinton or a President Gore or a President Kerry.

[Skittles]

80. conservatives are calling it justified with no evidence whatsoever

nt

[regnaD kciN]

84. How did "Little Green Footballs" get their name?

I always thought that it was a slang term for the drug one takes to think like them.

[Swamp Rat]

87. HAHAHAHA!!! "Little Green Footballs" HAHAHAHA!!! Dingleberries!!!!

:D "Pendejitos!" HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Whatta buncha maroons! HAHAHAHA!!! :D

Little Green Footballs = Little balls of shit hanging from ass hairs. HAHAHAHA!!!!

PROOF that RW nutjobs are the DUMBEST creatures in America! :D