Have Conservatives ever been on the right side of a Good Cause?

[Sandpiper]

I can't help but shake my head at how the left has allowed Conservatives to paint themselves as "Real Americans" when in reality, they've always stood for what was wrong with America, not what was right.

I mean, look at this miserable track record.

Conservatives Have Opposed:

Abolition of Slavery
Voting Rights for People of Color
Voting Rights for Women
Labor's Right to Organize
Ending Jim Crow Segregation
Minimum Wage Laws
Workplace Safety Regulations
Environmental Protections


Throughout our nation's history, every time there was a good cause that brought about positive change, Liberals have been behind it, and Conservatives have obstructed it.

How in the world did Liberals ever let Conservatives turn the word "Liberal" into an insult?

[steve2470]

1. maybe balancing the budget ? lol nt

[redqueen]

9. If I agree with you...

does that make me a freeper?

It seems like you're joking, but I really do think that was a good thing. I don't support a balanced budget amendment, but we can't continue with these huge deficits.

[steve2470]

12. no, I think balancing the budget, unless in something akin to

World War II, is a good thing. I'm def. not a freeper and I know you aren't, either. I never dreamed I would see the day when a Repug president would ignore BTB.

[seabeyond]

13. well ya redqueen, i could agree but........

the last two republican administrations increased the deficit adn increased government, not shrunk it. was the dems that decreased deficit. so another absudity to say they are for balance budget when action doesnt meet words

otherwise, yes it would be a mark for the repugs

[redqueen]

20. Good point... they only get credit for saying the words.

:hi:

[Sandpiper]

15. Who was the last Conservative to balance the budget?

n/t

[Telly Savalas]

52. Hoover

Ike was the last Republican who did it, but most would call him a moderate.

Edited to emphasize: It's been 48 years since a Republican president signed a balanced budget. Fiscal conservatism, my ass.

[Bouncy Ball]

2. Mmmmmmm wait,

let me think.

Hmmmm. Ummmmmm, no, not getting anything....

I'll get back to you. Or not.

[Bouncy Ball]

3. This quote:

"Throughout our nation's history, every time there was a good cause that brought about positive change, Liberals have been behind it, and Conservatives have obstructed it."

is one of the biggest reasons I AM a liberal.

[Hello_Kitty]

4. But, but.......

They are working diligently to remove the scourge that is Sponge Bob Squarepants from the airwaves where he is currently poisoning the minds of America's children with his evil message of tolerance....

[Bouncy Ball]

5. AND SHREK 2!!!!!!!!!!

[shraby]

6. I've said it before, the Neanderthals didn't

die out, they became Republicans.

[CottonBear]

7. Don't forget Tinky Winky!

n/t

[walldude]

17. Wasn't it you who started that thread to out other

Cartoon characters during the SpongeBob "outing" Bouncy? I almost fell out out of my chair laughing when I saw the Shrek 2 thing, I remember us talking about it in that thread...

[NewJeffCT]

48. what's wrong with Shrek 2?

My 2 year old daughter loves it...

[applegrove]

8. No and now they decided to be on the bad side of 'good information' too!

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. They never have and still aren't.

It boggles the mind how religion has taken precedent over all the causes you list in your post. It's truly baffling. Sometimes I wonder if the religious right would be happy even if the Dems gave them EVERYTHING they want. Would that satisfy them? I don't think so.

This is a hypothetical!!!

Lets give them the abortion issue. :puke:

Lets take away unions.:puke:

Lets take away the 40 hour work week.:puke:

Lets take away the minimum wage.:puke:

Lets make women stay home and never work.:puke:

Lets remove all environmental protection programs.:puke

Lets take away workman's comp.:puke:

Lets remove the voting rights of women and people of color.:puke:


Lets have prayers in schools.:puke:

Lets have the 10 commandments on every friggin' corner in front of every friggin' building.:puke:

Lets separate people of color and white people and go back to segregation days.:puke:


Lets take OSHA out of the workplace.

No more Medicare.:puke:

No more Social Security.:puke:

No more welfare. :puke:

No more health care through the workplace. :puke:

Can you just IMAGINE if we did away with all those GOOD CAUSES???

WOULD ALL THAT MAKE THEM HAPPY??? Not on your life! They won't be happy until THE RAPTURE happens.

[Coastie for Truth]

11. I was told by a Salvationist (Salvation Army) who thought Carter was

our greatest President -- that Habitat for Humanity was originally a conservative evangelical operation but (to quote my Salvationist friend) "They don't like to get their hands dirty helping little people."

[FreedomAngel82]

61. Sad

It's sad how they think people who are down on their luck are seen as lazy and everything. *sigh* :(

[KnowerOfLogic]

14. Welfare reform is the only thing that comes close, and that was

motivated more by just plain meanness than any desire to 'help people help themselves.' But yeah, they've been on the wrong side of virtually every major moral/civil rights issue to come down the pike in the last several thousand years. And yet our dem leadership is now cowering in the face of the 'moral values' vote.

[Sandpiper]

16. I don't consider Welfare Reform a good cause

It was a purely mean spirited effort to punish the poor for being poor, and had some very racial undertones to it.

[Mr_Spock]

44. Welfare reform (for the wrong reason) was something that had to be done

There are people I know who still have a "welfare mentality" and get ANGRY at their significant others for working because it take away from their handout. Definitely not a healthy attitude...

[starroute]

18. There have been a few positive conservative stances

The Democratic Party tends to be over-indebted to the film and music industries, so at times conservatives have taken the lead in standing up to the MPAA and RIAA on intellectual property issues.

Around where I live, there are still some old-line conservatives who are trying to fight off suburban sprawl. They're doing it in a NIMBY sort of way, but at least they're doing it.

Some conservatives have been strong supporters of freedom of speech and other civil rights issues. Even Bob Barr, slimy as he was back in the Clinton years, has taken some positive stands in this area recently.

Not all conservatives have been racists -- it was only when the Dixiecrats left the Democratic Party in the 60's that the right started pandering on racial issues.

And even today not all conservatives are extravagantly pro-business -- though the ones who aren't tend to be motivated more by a peculiar sort of nostalgia for feudalism than by anything more progressive.

There is presently a vast and interconnected network of right-wing organizations that are virtually *all* rabidly pro-business, anti-environmental, anti-affirmative action, anti-gay, and anti-feminist -- and they pretty much define the public face of conservatism. But even today, they're not the whole show.

We could use some more real conservatives -- at least if you define conservatives as the skeptical, if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it types. They provide a useful balance wheel and a force for preserving what is best in our endowment from the past.

But what we're struggling against now isn't real conservatives in any sense. It's right-wing radicals with a fascist bent and an agenda of raping the planet and destroying the social fabric in the name of power and profit. And who needs that?

[Rowdyboy]

19. Many posters here disagree, but I think increasing the

speed limit from 55mph to 70mph was an excellent decision. No one was paying any attention to the law anyway. In rural areas, particularly in the west and parts of the south and mid-west, it was simply ignored.

[hughee99]

21. IIRC, the vote on the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

The repukes voted for it in higher percentages than the democrats did. There were far more democrats in congress, so it wouldn't have passed without us, but on a percentage basis they were more for it then us.

[ChairOne]

23. Reading what the OP *actually* said might be helpful to you..... /eom

[hughee99]

24. Huh?

"Throughout our nation's history, every time there was a good cause that brought about positive change, Liberals have been behind it, and Conservatives have obstructed it."

Wasn't this the point? Am I not correct in saying that the Conservatives did not obstruct this, but rather supported it in an even larger percentage than the liberals? Or are you suggesting that in 1964 there were more liberal repukes in congress as a percentage than liberal democrats?

[ChairOne]

25. Then again, it might not..... lol /eom

[niceypoo]

57. The republican party was officially AGAINST the civil rights act

though on an individual level some republicans backed it.....

[hughee99]

60. On an individual level???

I think that it was something like 65-70% of repukes that voted for it. This sounds like more than a few individuals breaking off from the leadership. I'm not one to stand up for repukes, but I would say that this is not a case of conservatives obstructing something we all (I think) agree that was a good thing.

[Do_You_Know]

22. Abolition of Slavery?

Didn't Abe Lincoln push abolishion of slavery? Wasn't he a republican?

[AlienGirl]

26. Conservative, the politics, does not mean Republican, the party

In Lincoln's time, the Republican party was liberal.

On edit: but you knew that already. :-)

Tucker

[Stirk]

28. He was a Republican- not a conservative.

There's a difference. The Republican Party was the more progressive party at the time. Here- read this:

http://www.edgate.com/elections/inactive/the_parties/

[quaker bill]

51. He came on board late

and only used it as a means to further wreak havoc on the south.

The political pressure from the northern liberal abolition movement was enormous and he needed the north united to win the war.

[niceypoo]

58. Republican, yes, conservative, no

Back then the political poles were reversed. Read the Lincoln Douglas debates if you don't believe me.

[B Calm]

27. Must Read: What has the GOP done for Workers?

WHAT HAS GOP DONE FOR

WORKERS?

CLINT C. GOLD
10/24/1999
Tulsa World


Not too long ago, my wife and I attended a TV football
party in south Tulsa. With a lopsided score, the
conversation turned to a livelier subject -- politics. The
crowd was, of course, top-heavy with Republicans. With each
point expressed their faces became more flushed, eyes
bulging a little more and veins popping in their foreheads
as they railed against the liberal programs.

Finally a lone, liberal voice asked: "Will you people
name me one bill your party ever passed to help the working
man of this country?" The question created much din and
clamor, and someone sputtered, "Well, what have the
Democrats done?"

The liberal responded with a few programs and was
interrupted by howling and disdain. He noted that he had
not promised they would like the programs and he asked to
complete his statement -- a difficult task to ask of
Republicans.

He spoke of Social Security; Medicare-Medicaid; Peace
Corps; unemployment insurance; welfare (for the poor and
corporate); civil rights; student grant and loan programs;
safety laws (OSHA); environmental laws; prevailing wage
laws; right to collective bargaining (which brought about
paid medical insurance, paid vacations, pensions, etc.);
workers' compensation; Marshall Plan; flood-disaster
insurance; School Lunch Program; women's rights.

He spoke of the Fair Labor Standards Act, which
established a minimum wage, instituted child labor laws,
and set up time-and-a-half pay for over a 40-hour week.

He mentioned FHA-HUD with its public housing, urban
renewal and 44 million residential homes (before WWII
almost 70 percent of our nation were renters; by the 1970s
this had been reversed). And farm-conservation
subsidies -- USDA programs, Farmers Home Administration (the
bankers didn't want to make rural loans), small
flood-control lakes (more than 3,000 in Oklahoma alone),
rural water districts, rural electricity (REA).

The GI Bill was passed, which the Republicans at the
time bitterly opposed. They were salivating over millions
of returning veterans to hire as cheap labor. More than 8 million have used college benefits, creating millions of
entrepreneurs; most of us had never dreamed of college. For
the unemployed GI, there was $20 a week for 52 weeks to
help get started (a lot of money in those days). The
Veterans Administration provided more than 2 million home
loans.

For the bankers at the football party, it was pointed
out that the liberals saved their industry with the
creation of FDIC and FSLIC, insuring their deposits, and
saved Wall Street with the establishment of the Securities
Exchange Commission.

The oil men came on bended knees to FDR at a time when
East Texas oil was 4 cents a barrel and begged him to save
their industry. He did; prorationing overturned the rule of
capture and the days of flush production were over.
Prorating has served this great industry (and nation)
well.


And the list went on and on, but of course this group
didn't let him get halfway through. He noted they were
weary, inattentive, so again he challenged them to offer up
any Republican legislation examples.

"I'm sure your party has authored one or two comparable
bills from time to time, but I can't think of any, and
apparently you can't either. What it boils down to is this:
the liberals dragged you into the 20th century scratching
and screaming with your heels in the mud, fighting anything
that's progressive, everything that's made this country
great. You Republicans have never understood that the
spending power of blue-collar workers, obtained through
Democrats and unions, is what really made this country
great. You really believe "The Good Life" was obtained from
your own endeavors. You cloak your greed in religion and
patriotism, railing against any form of tax, never
comprehending that these programs have benefitted all of us
and our country."

Well, I almost didn't make it out of the house. My wife
and I didn't even get to see the end of the football game.


If Reps. Steve Largent or J.C. Watts had been there,
perhaps politics would never have come up, only the game
plan ... pity.
Clint C. Gold is former mayor of Moore and a retired
savings and loan executive.

[ChairOne]

29. that's AWESOME - lol /eom

[B Calm]

30. Mike Malloy read that on air years ago when he was on WLS..

He posted it on his WLS web site and I saved it.

[Toots]

31. Well Richard Nixon did create Affirmative Action

:shrug: I'm sure if we really struggle we could uncover a few but very damn few indeed.

[Leilani]

32. Teddy Roosevelt was our first Environmental President

& Nixon was the first Prez to enact environmental laws.

Republicans were good on the environment till Reagan, when the business interests took over.

[Sandpiper]

36. The question was about Conservatives, not Republicans

Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive.

Nixon was a Rockefeller Republican.

Conservatives have bounced back and forth between parties through the years.

[Leilani]

42. Teddy Roosevelt was a Neocon

in terms of his foreign policy...John McCain talks about Teddy all the time, & has modeled himself after TR.

Nixon was not considered a Rockefeller Republican at the time...you're seeing him in today's terms. Back then he was considered conservative by the Left. Today he seems Liberal, or very Moderate.

[Sandpiper]

49. I don't dispute that Teddy was a warmonger

But on domestic issues, he almost nothing in common with the neocons.

[Leilani]

50. My point is that labels are often deceiving

What was liberal/conservative in previous times is difficult to compare to the present.

I don't consider the people currently running our country today to be conservative; I consider them to be liars & robber barons.

[DerekG]

33. Certain factions are vehemently anti-war

Be careful with this Liberalism=Good/Conservatism=Bad construct. Lest we forget (as many here apparently do), liberalism has quite the bloody history: those administrators we label "progressive" (T.R., Wilson) or "liberal" (F.D.R., Truman, Johnson) have actually accrued a far greater body count than rightist presidents.

I care not whether Wilson believed our entry into WWI would serve as the catalyst for the world's salvation, nor do I care that LBJ's aim was to introduce a Great Society for the people of Vietnam (upon war's end)--such magnanimity is useless when set against the scorched children of Europe and Indochina. Perhaps the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

In this last election--in which we were given a choice between two militarists--I confess I felt a greater kinship with the libertarian right than I did with most liberals (who deemed anti-war dissenters like Ralph Nader "fools"). As a result, I've grown to admire whatever remains of the Old Right, as well as their ideological ancestors, particularly Senator Robert Taft, who tried to expose Truman and Acheson's machinations to Americans.

I'm a Christian socialist, but I'll vote for a conservative dove over a utopian militarist any day of the week.

[Sandpiper]

37. I wouldn't call Woodrow Wilson a progressive

n/t

[DerekG]

41. He was certainly deemed one at the time

The Wilson administration was responsible for the Clayton Antitrust Act (1914), the Underwood Tariff (1913), and the creation of the Federal Reserve System. Not exactly laissez-faire...

[Sandpiper]

47. Woodrow Wilson also

Was a union buster, was anti free speech, and was a notorious racist.

Hardly what I'd call an icon of liberal values.

[WoodrowFan]

53. Wilson also

actually he was pro-union and I'd like you to show me a southern Democrat from his era that wasn't a racist (he was anti-lynching though, a very minor point, but that actually made one a moderate in Sotuhern politics at the time.)

he also supported Woman's suffrage (although he came late to supporting the amendment, by 1915 he was advocating voting yes on State suffrage amendments). (That HBO film is good, but is fiction when it comes to WW)

He vetoed Prohibition.

Created the League of Nations

reduced tariff which were a tax on the working and middle classes to the benefit of big business.

created the Federal reserve which reduced the power of New York banks to control US currency.

created the Federal Trade Commission.

won the first 8 hour day legislation.

got the Clayton Anti-Trust Act and initiated anti-Trust actions in 92 cases, far more that "trust-Buster" TR.

passed the La Follette Seaman's Act, which set working conditions limits on US ships (an very early working conditions law)

vetoed anti-Immigration law

Nominated the first Jewish member of the Supreme Court (Progressive Louis Brandeis)

passed the first child labor law.

His racism and the awful record on civil liberties during World War I are very real black spots, but he was still the most Progressive President we had until FDR.

[demwing]

54. One Note: "most liberals" who thought Ralph Nader a fool -

Did not base their opinion on his anti-war stance.

They based it on his anti-Democratic party stance, and specifically his claims that Gore and Kerry were the same as Bush.

That's foolishness, no mater how you slice it.

Also, I do - somewhat - understand your willingness to vote for a dove over a hawk, but I tend to disagree with the concept of voting on a single issue--for a multititude of reasons.

[Heyo]

34. hold on a sec...

Conservatives Have Opposed:

Abolition of Slavery

You sure about that? I don't mean any disprespect, but try reading some history. Do you know why/how the Republican party was founded?

Voting Rights for People of Color
Ending Jim Crow Segregation

Um. History books are a good thing. (Dixiecrats, anyone?)

Workplace Safety Regulations

Which are fine but have now gone way too far anyway.

I'm not trying to sing the praises of any political party, I don't do that. I'm just sayin'.

:hurts:

Heyo

[Sandpiper]

38. Ok, I'll say this again

I didn't ask "Have Republicans ever been on the right side of a good cause?"

The question I asked was about conservatives.

The Republicans/Abolitionists were the liberal radicals of the civil war era.

The knuckle-dragging Dixiecrats most certainly were not liberals, and migrated to the Republican party following the Civil Rights Act. (Southern Strategy Anyone?)

History books are indeed a good thing.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

39. "Workplace Safety Regulations"

Which are fine but have now gone way too far anyway.

You're joking, right? While we're at it, how do you feel anout the unions who helped champion workplace safety? Were you happy when Bush signed a bill limiting the awards people could get when they sue?


"I'm not trying to sing the praises of any political party, I don't do that. I'm just sayin'."

What you imply tells us everything.

:eyes: :boring:

[PROGRESSIVE1]

35. Conservatives also opposed fighting Hitler too.

They wanted to just fight Japan. Even though Hitler was out to get us, the CONSERVATIVES wanted TO APPEASE him. Afterall, conservatives would never attack their own kind.

[ComerPerro]

46. Hell, some of them supported Hitler

Some financially, even. Bush comes to mind...

[dback]

40. I think Molly Ivins said Bush Sr. actually voted for de-segregation

When he was a congressman in the mid-60's, and he actually made a fairly eloquent speech on civil rights. She refers to it as one of the last times he did something for anyone besides himself.

[theboss]

43. Eh, the whole opposition to communism thing was ok...

I'm not sure what "conservative" meant in 1858 though.

[doc03]

45. Eisenhower created the Interstate highway system

he was a Republican but I don't know if he would be considered a Conservative today.

[WoodrowFan]

55. republicans yes, conservatives, rarely

Back when there were liberal and moderate republicans they'd be on the right side sometimes, but not the paleos of either party.

[indepat]

56. Going back at least to the 1920s, the far right has never been right on

any major issue I can think of.

[LWolf]

59. Sure.

Maybe not for the right reasons, but there are a couple of things they've supported that I can get behind:

1. Local control. It empowers people. I prefer local control to top-down control from afar.

2. A balanced budget. Not spending more than you earn is a sound concept.

I can't say I've agreed with the way they implement these things; they manage to corrupt everything they touch. But I think they're on the right side of these general issues.

Of course, from another perspective, they are always on the "right" side. Which is exactly how they've been able to reframe what it means to be "left" or "liberal." I see no good reason to allow them to continue to do so. Frankly, I've been a little more than disappointed that Democrats have allowed this, and even participated in it by working to distance themselves from the liberal left.