Would legalizing prostitution cut down on the trafficking of sex slaves?

[redqueen]

I think it would. I think it would also shut up a lot of the moralizing hypocrites in society, as there would be a record of their enjoyment of such services. :)

Just thinking about the subject of moralizing in light of the recent attempt by a few to launch a 'Let's make every show like Mr. Rogers!' fad.

[The Magistrate]

1. Unfortunately, Ma'am, Probably Not Too Much

There is such trafficking even in places where prostitution is legal under regulation.

It is, however, my view it ought to be legalized; that would certainly, in many places, reduce crime against prostitutes, and allow them a greater share of their earnings, where they are genuine volunteers.

[ArkDem]

47. What if they made sex slavery legal?

[redqueen]

54. What in blue blazes do you mean by that?

:wow:

[ArkDem]

61. Well, people say that the drug problem would lessen if made

legal.....

[redqueen]

65. Yeah, and drugs are something YOU use, on YOURSELF,

without *abusing* anyone else.

I can't believe you just said that. I really can't. Where am I, anyway? Is this DU?

Do you honestly not see a difference? Honestly?

[ArkDem]

68. Of course I do, it was sarcasm.

[redqueen]

69. ha ha ha

:eyes:

That was a huge waste of time and communication. Thanks.

[AllegroRondo]

2. Australia recently legalized

there might be some good data from there, a good place to start looking.

[progressivebydesign]

3. No.. because the most prized sex slaves are CHILDREN.

Prostitution being legalized does nothing to stop the trafficing of children for prostitution, which is epidemic. Better we should find out why our society has produced so many men looking for sex with young children.. and teens.

[redqueen]

5. That's true.

However I think the most common sex slaves are young women.

As for the issue you bring up, I definitely feel we should change some laws to discourage that. Such as mandating a life sentence for the first offense.

[2diagnosis]

52. The phenomenon is not limited to our society,

have you looked at the worldwide sexual abuse of children by "peacekeepers" of the UN?

[Cleita]

4. I once lived in a country that had legalized prostitution.

It seemed to work pretty well both for the prostitutes and the clients. The women worked out of bars with rooms attached. No streetwalking or other types of solicitation were permitted. This was to keep venereal disease controlled. By making the women work out of houses so to speak they could be kept track of. STD's were almost unknown and the women were protected from abuse. The prostitution business was necessary in an area of mining where unattached males outnumbered the women.

Most of the prostitutes were married women working with their husbands' knowledge. I don't know if it will help in the trafficking of children to pedophiles and other such distasteful sex practices, which would have to remain illegal, but at least the police could concentrate on these problems instead of the revolving door of chasing women and men who are old enough to know what they are doing.

[redqueen]

6. Exactly - the police could concentrate on ACTUAL sex crimes

instead of the stuff that is consensual.

[Solly Mack]

7. I don't think it'll make a big difference but it should still be legalized

Child sex trade would still flourish. In some places women/men would still be forced into the sex industry.

In the sex slave trade(make note of the word slave), it's got a lot to do with power as well....not just buying a service.

[mongo]

8. I would like to see it legalized and regulated off the streets

As it is now, the streetwalkers in my neighborhood would not comply with any licensing or whatnot - they would continue to do it illegally.

I do think that most of the johns would pursue it through legal venues, rather than the streetwalkers they now visit - and there is more demand than supply here. I see the men driving around in circles all day long.

As far as the trafficking goes, I think that outside of NYC and LA, this sort of thing doesn't happen. It's only the homegrown, cracked-up whores who are streetwalking out here in red-state 'merika.

So, I don't know. If there were legal venues - where the girls where liscenced and had health checks, then some of the demand for illegal prostitution would dry up.

[redqueen]

10. No, sex slaves can be found in major cities like NY.

There was a network program on recently which shocked me by exposing a house where these women worked right in the middle of Queens, IIRC.

on edit: I also remember reading about a house like this that was discovered by police in a nearby suburb of Dallas, so...

[barackmyworld]

60. exactly--it's all over the country, ESPECIALLY small towns

it's effective to isolate women in small towns in the middle of nowhere, so they don't have anyone to go to for HELP. There have been instances of slavery in a lot of middle-class suburbs where you would never imagine it could happen.

[mongo]

70. Yeah, right.

I know all the hookers in my town. Most do not even have a pimp.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

11. Actually it would do exactly the opposite.

With legal prostitution you'd have regular testing for STD's and mandated use of condoms, unlike the illegal variety, where it's a crapshoot.

[Cleita]

12. Well, that's a comment out of the blue.

Did you research this or pull out of you know where? In Nevada where there is legalized prostitution in many counties, the licensed hookers, who work out of houses, have the lowest rate of STD's and HIV anywhere in the country.

http://www.insidebay.com/news/the_word/103376279586802....

<snip>Albert herself comes out for legalization, and her reasons are purely pragmatic, and rooted in issues of public health. As the Nevada State Brothel Association is justifiably proud in pointing out, there have been no incidents of HIV, and few of other STDs relating to Nevada brothels. Albert argues that “however disturbing the idea of commercial prostitution may be to some of us, it’s naïve to believe that prostitution can ever be eliminated. Only when we recognize and validate the work of professional prostitutes can we expect them to practice their trade safely and responsibly.”<snip>

There are other problems but STDs and HIV are not among them.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

19. Oops... didn't notice your post count...

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[bicentennial_baby]

14. Actually no

Go look at the stats for Nevada...legal prostitution = lowest STD rate of prostitutes in the US, and no (or virtually no) cases of HIV since the prostitutes there have been regulated and tested.

[Goldmund]

28. Actually,

there is no higher frequency of HIV infections among prostitutes than there are among the general population -- outside of Africa.

Outside of Africa, the incidence of HIV in sex workers is
reasonably low, generally about the same as in the population as a
whole, even in developing nations, although the incidence does vary by region.

http://www.worldsexguide.org/hiv.txt.html

[applegrove]

15. Yes it would help - by lowering the price and making it less economically

profitable for the monsters who engage in it. Of course they may switch to children (which is a problem in the third world).

[redqueen]

17. That's another thing I was thinking...

if it cut enough of the profits out, that would be a very good thing.

I don't think most men can just 'switch' to wanting to hire child prostitutes... so hopefully that wouldn't have a baloon effect there.

[applegrove]

26. Oh and the prison sentences and the prison attacks that go with child

slavery make it not worth it in NA. But we are in a mobile world. And they did do studies in the past where it seemed to be the madams in the past who got targeted by the Vice squad and not the street prostitutes (at least in Africa). So there is the idea out there that if you make it legal.. it will result in some women with power. And that is why you make it legal - because then people have more control & can go to police more easily and can help the police identify 'characters' and they can be in secure locations and thus not so vulnerable.

Especially with AIDS. Drug intervention help. Career training in other fields.

Anyway - I don't think prostitution is a good thing but there has to be a way to break the cycle (pimps & bikers getting girls hooked on something and then owning them until the girls are virtually dead). Kids are involved.

There has to be a way.

[redqueen]

30. Well if you're saying that child prostitution should be made legal,

there's no way on God's green earth I could ever agree with you.

[applegrove]

58. Oh god no - by kids I mean the women who were hooked had children

of their own and thus they were affected by the drugs & the lifestyle. Nobody on the planet except a sicko would advocate legalizing child prostitution. You got me very, very wrong ... it must have been my writing.

No - I really am not sure that I would like prostitution (adults) legalized but it is a matter of life or death - so really who am I to say "I don't want to see it on my street". I mean if it becomes less attractive to bikers because it is legal ... then the drugs are not so present... make it legal if that will solve a miriad of problems and give some hope/life.

[mongo]

71. It would not lower the price

Around here, a BJ goes for $10 and full sex for $20. If it were in a legal house I'm sure the price would go up.

[wideopen]

16. I doubt it

but it would probably push the divorce rate down by giving sexually flustrated men (or women) a safe(r) option for thier needs.

[redqueen]

18. Possibly.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[wideopen]

23. Thank you

Your the first to welcome me. You'll be seeing more of me from now on, I've lurked long enough it's time to contribute.

[redqueen]

32. Yay!

I've been hiding in another forum, I'm just now feeling ready to come back... especially thanks to one BouncyBall. :)

[Goldmund]

34. Why were you in hiding?

:)

[redqueen]

37. hahahahaha... well, to be honest, I'm a coward at heart.

And the major flamefests sometimes wear me out. :hi:

[Goldmund]

38. It's nice to have you back

:hi:

[plcdude]

48. I'll always

defend or support you lady.

[Goldmund]

49. Goddamn, we have a Don Juan here!

[wideopen]

35. I like to float

I'll drift from the lounge to gd to lbn. Sometimes to the groups but theirs not much action over there.

[ckramer]

20. What do you do if your daughter told you that she wanted to be

a prostitute when she grows up?

[Goldmund]

22. Huh?

[ckramer]

24. Let's pretend your daughter just told you that

What would be your answer?

[Goldmund]

25. We can pretend many things,

but what does that have to do with the discussion?

[ckramer]

27. I was asking a related question concerning legalizing prositution

Do you want to answer it?

[Goldmund]

31. And I was saying it is not related

But if you want me to answer it, sure. I'd answer it like I'd answer any such questions:

"Your life is your choice. But please learn about your choices before you make them."

Now you want to talk about cheese production in France?

[Locut0s]

29. I would try to discourage her but if she "really" wanted to, there'd be...

nothing I could do to stop her, she'd be her own person at that age. In which case I would want prostitution legalized even more!

[redqueen]

33. I ask her if she's sure...

and I ask why... and I counsel her against it. In the end, if she's an adult, it's her decision.

Why... what would you do?

And you must know that this can happen even while prostitution is illegal. Except now, the daughter would more than likely just run away and do it without permission rather than possibly discussing it with the parent.

Interesting that you brought this up. I'm very curious as to why.

[ckramer]

39. Because I thought no father would want his girl become a prostitute

Is that universally true?

[Goldmund]

40. Dude, you're not answering the question everybody's asking you

Where's the connection between what we're discussing and what you're discussing?

[ckramer]

56. What question that everybody asked me?

You mean "Would legalizing prostitution cut down on the trafficking of sex slaves?"

My answer to that is no. It would make it worse. It's like Bush was still invading only Iraq without UN's approval. Just think about many countries he would invade if UN says Yes.

[Goldmund]

59. No, the question is

what does legalizing prostitution have to do with what you'd say to your daughter if she told you she was going to be a prostitute when she grows up?

[ckramer]

63. A lot

If prostitution was legal, then the daughter would say "why do you stop me joining a legal profession?"

No, the father wouldn't have an answer for that because technically his daughter was right.

[redqueen]

41. Paternalism. Thought so.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Cleita]

42. I wouldn't worry about it until she does grow up.

If, when she grows up, she still wants to make some fast money while she is able to then, I would hope she would be protected and that it would be legal. Also, I would do my best to discourage her and encourage her to finish her education for her life's work.

Incidentally, I have known some college girls back when I was in college, who "worked" their way through college and then moved on. One is a very well known fiction author today, married and with a family. :-) No I won't tell.

[Minstrel Boy]

21. no, because they're not about the same thing.

Prostitutes are professionals for hire. While they may also be victimized, they are not necessarily so. Sex slaves are victims, period. And some bastards will always prefer having power over the latter, than contracting the former.

[redqueen]

36. I disagree.

Most prostitutes are not professionals. Most are abused children who run away and end up being trapped by pimps who pretend to care for them but actually get them hooked on drugs.

I agree that some will always prefer slaves, but if the profit is cut down, I think there will be fewer abductions.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. I think consenting adults should be able to enter into economic agreements

freely- even ones pertaining to sex. I don't think it's any of the gummint's business. Period.

If we're talking about non-adults, or non-consent, it's a different story.

I'm not sure if it would directly affect the issues you mention, but at least it would prevent our tax dollars from being blown by government officials playing church lady.

[redqueen]

45. "church lady" - I love that!

I agree that there seems to be no good reason for the government to interfere in a financial transaction between two consenting adults involving the sale of legal things that they are the rightful owners of. (Geez that was awkward... hope you get my drift.)

[Warren DeMontague]

51. Thank you.

I am of a strong believer in the fundamental (and strangely unpopular, even here at times) notion that if we don't own our bodies, if we don't own our selves, notions of "liberty" are essentially meaningless. (Now, kids are a different story although any time you get into one of these discussions someone will inevitably drag 'what about the children' into it...) But with regards to consenting adults, I happen to think that our bodies, our nervous systems, our selves belong to us-- not the government, not the church, none of that rigamarole. Therefore, what consenting adults wish to do in the privacy of their own homes, what they wish to smoke or drink or eat or otherwise ingest into their bloodstreams, provided so long as they don't interfere with the liberty of others or endanger people (I think drugs should be decriminalized, for example, but laws against driving under the influence should be severely enforced) is their own damn business. To me that seems like a simple no-brainer of a proposition, but the impulse to regulate the behavior of others is so ingrained into Western Civilization that many folks act like it's a crazy idea.

[redqueen]

53. I agree completely.

As long as you're not harming anyone else, I can't see the problem.

I'm sure there are some scenarios where I could see something wrong, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

[amazona]

44. I don't see why

Prostitution is legal in some Nevada counties, many if not most women prefer to work illegally for a variety of reasons, including 1) they can't pass a health test, 2) they want to be able to roll their johns for more money, and 3) they just plain don't want a manager in their business cutting into their income.

And, as you concede, there is a privacy consideration for the customer. Pay cash to a discreet call girl who is "off the books" or pay with a credit card to a legal business and later find the business records subpoenaed by a peeved wife in a divorce proceeding.

Prostitution is illegal because most people prefer it that way. Including many of the prostitutes.

As far as out-and-out sex slaves, it seems the more prostitution is accepted, the more sex slaves are getting traded around, doesn't it?

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[redqueen]

46. Where do you get that information?

Prostitutes would rather have a pimp take all their money than a manager actually give them a decent share? Where is that from, really?

I'm intensely curious to know where all this info you're sharing is from.

As for cowardly johns, sure that will happen, but as it becomes less stigmatized I can forsee people becoming less ashamed of using the services of a prostitute.

As far as how it seems, I don't trust that sort of information. I like hard data. And no, I don't perceive that sex slaves are more common today than before... I tend to think it is our knowledge of them is increasing, not their existence.

[Cleita]

50. I guess a lot of people would like illegal transactions on all sorts of

businesses to keep them off the books and avoid paying taxes, but it's really not the way a democratic society should work. I know bartenders who would like prohibition to come back so they can work in speakeasys and make a whole lot more money, but we know prohibition throws all regulation and taxation of alcohol out the window. It's the same with prostitution. Legalizing it isn't going to stop the illegal aspect of it happening anymore than there aren't moonshiners still operating, but it would sure do a lot to minimizing the problem to a very small one so that law enforcement can focus on the criminal aspect.

[redqueen]

55. Thank you.

:hi:

[ckramer]

57. I would think so

"As far as out-and-out sex slaves, it seems the more prostitution is accepted, the more sex slaves are getting traded around, doesn't it?"

[redqueen]

67. Care to share why?

I'm curious.

[mainer]

62. There are still sex slaves in Amsterdam

Because "businessmen" still want to make money off these women, and force them to "work." Legalizing prostitution, unfortunately, doesn't change this fact.

[ckramer]

64. I do not agree

As many posters stated here, children are the victims of prostitution.

[redqueen]

66. Why do you say that?

Do you have some statistics or something? I'd like to see them.

In most of the sex slave rings that are busted, the females being abused there are mostly over the age of 18. There may be a few teens, but they are the exception, not the rule.