Do you think this would be a better world without religion?

[trumad]

Now I swear to God (;-)) that this thread isn't meant to be flamebait....BUT...It seems to me that a good deal of turmoil on this planet is caused by religion.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Yes.

[RPM]

yes - any organization whic h doesnt encourage independent throught is...

...a threat to democracy.

[Salviati]

2. Not really...

people would find other reasons to be horrible to each other. Religion is just a tool, it's neither good nor evil. People, not things, are the ones who are good and evil

[trumad]

3. But would you agree that it is the top of the chart errr tool?

[Salviati]

11. My definition of tool is quite broad...

religion, government, schools, etc. they are all tools of society to organize the efforts of many people. I'd say that religion is one of the more powerful tools, right up there with nations, but that doesn't nessicarly make it bad. An axe in one hand can make a house, but in another can chop someone to little bits.

[u4ic]

38. I agree, the same thing can be said of science

which has brought us both wonderful things, and the capability to destroy humankind within minutes.

That being said, I am no fan of organized religion, but I have known many who have derived strength from it. There are some denominations who are fighting the good fight.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. No. I think that religion is not necessarily the enemy until said religion

attains cult status. Economic interests have always used religion to drug the masses. They could do the same thing with psychology or any other program oriented toward altering thought processes. They can do it with television. Religion is simply a mode to accomplish this as are other methods.

Economics manipulating the religious is the source. Not religion.

[histohoney]

5. No

If you don't want any in your life, fine. But I need and want God in my life, my right to choose.

[pinellas]

6. How would you......

....eliminate our human need to 'explain' our world to ourselves.

IOW, religion is an inevitable development in human culture.


& the term 'religion' covers a LOT of ground......

[H2O Man]

7. A lot of turmoil

on this planet is caused by sex, too. Just because some people have diseased attitudes about sex and religion hardly seems a good reason to consider a world without either.

[Padraig18]

8. Whether you intended it to be, or not, it IS flame bait.

This is DU.

:eyes:

[cags]

9. Religion is not God, so yes I think so

Spirituality does not cause turmoil its the dogma of religion that is the problem

[keithjx]

10. I just had this discussion w/ my fiancee!

I'm of two minds. There are some people that, without religion (a) have a massive hole in their lives that they try to fill with all kinds of things (drugs, sex, abuse, etc.), or (b) think that there are no PERMANENT ramifications to their actions if they don't get caught. For those folks, a world w/o religion would truly be awful.

On the other hand, w/o religion and the disputes that are propogated in its name, people may focus more on what is good for our society. The motivation for acting "good" changes from "what God/religion/whatever says is good" to "what is good for our society, not just for me, but for my family, for my friends, for my community, etc." For those folks, religion could be reintroduced later as a search for spiritual enlightenment, not a tool to use against others....

Just some thoughts.
KJ

[Snotcicles]

12. Delete

better keep it to myself

[Norquist Nemesis]

13. No, I just don't want to be indoctrinated into a cult

of fundamentalists. I'll practice my faith, my way, my terms and within the boundaries of the law (no sacrificial lambs or babies). I will do it in a church and in my home without trespassing on others property and rights. I strive to be tolerant of others religious views and method of practicing their faith (dress, diet, etc.) and expect no less of others.

There is a time and a place for everything, including religion. But that does not mean that everything is religion all times, all places.

[Guckert]

14. I don't need the Bible to tell me that killing is wrong, stealing is wrong,

cheating on my wife is wrong, or lying is wrong. I think I can figure that out all by my self. the bible does create a sense of fear in those that have no common sense about these things. But they tend to forget that Religion has killed more people than any other thing in history. I believe that religion was created to get the sheeple to obey the leaders of the world back in the old days. the old kings glommed onto the hysteria to create a sense of power over the people.
God chose the kings to rule therefore you must obey them. kind of like DUMBya does today.

[bloom]

15. I've been reading a book

the Dalai Lama wrote with a psychiatrist. Maybe the psychiatrist wrote it - but it has a lot of stuff about what the Dalai Lama says.

It's inspiring.

I think inspiring is good - world views that encourage people to seek peace within and among others.

I think a lot of religions start out that way and then they get weird.


I think that religions that are used in a way that promote people thinking they are better than others are not positive.

[stray cat]

16. I think most problems go back to greed, selfishness and tribalism

I don't think humans need to blame anyone but themselves for most of their intolerance and brutality. If we truly believe humans are good, we should be able to trust corporations to do what is right and not restrict them in any ways.

[RC]

17. Correct.

The animosity of the Crusades still exist today. The Dark Ages set back learning and knowledge 1400 years. To say nothing of the knowledge of other civilizations that was destroyed for no other reason that it did not acknowledge the Christian God.

[Pastiche423]

18. Yes

[springhill]

19. Yes.

[Johonny]

20. No

Since religion is a reflection of societal values and not a driving force.

[Bridget Burke]

21. NO.

If all religions disappeared overnight, people would be reinventing them tomorrow.

Since religion is a human institution, it's had its good days & bad days.

[dbt]

22. "Never really understood religion,

Except it seemed a good excuse for killing."

Ten Years After

[Bouncy Ball]

23. I'm a spiritual, not a religious person.

But it hasn't escaped me how much blood has been shed in the name of religion.

My question is, if we didn't have religion, would humankind have come up with some other reason to do such things???

[Demit]

24. In my mind, ORGANIZED religion is the source of many ills throughout

history. Nothing can, or will, stop people from pondering the universe and seeking a spiritual connection to it. But when organized religion creates dogma and insists that those who follow it are good and those who don't are bad, that's when the divisiveness begins. So I agree totally that a good deal of turmoil on the planet derives from religion--not the personal kind, but the kind that creates all manner of religious rules that others are instructed to follow.

[Hugin]

28. Nice thought DemItAllAnyway.

That's pretty much my take on the whole thing also.

[ldf]

25. yes

think about it.

do you REQUIRE a grand scheme of creation, sacrifice, ascension, heaven and hell, in order to see a need to treat your fellow human with dignity and respect? just like YOU would like to be treated?

if you do, SHAME!

at the same time, that same grand scheme of creation, sacrifice, ascension, heaven and hell, is twisted into all the fodder needed to discriminate, hate, persecute and kill.

all just because we need an excuse to want to "All Just Get Along"?

religions are attempts to explain things that normally would be hard to grasp (without some degree of education, which only came with time and SCIENCE), morphing into so-called perfect explanations, that then conveniently allow the furtherance of manipulation and control.

so religions are all about manipulation and control.

but what if, after you were born, you were never exposed to the grand scheme?

would you then be incapable of desiring dignity and respect for yourself and your fellow human?

of course not.

as someone famous once said, religions are the opiates of the masses.

how true. how better to control and manipulate people than through the use of "drugs".

[John BigBootay]

26. As an agnostic-- I say NO

I think history will show that more good than evil has been done out of religious feeling and teachings.

[Beacho]

27. If it wasn't religion it would be something else

Humans suck

'nuff said

[leftofthedial]

29. absolutely without question

I don't foresee the species surviving WITH religion.

[Blue_In_AK]

30. Organized religion, yes

but we could probably use more true spirituality.

[LondonReign2]

31. Absolutely

No question. The evils perpetrated in the name of religion FAR outweigh the good souls who try to do good work.

[Armstead]

32. No. But it would be a better world withouot religous stupidity.

The basic purpose of religion is to try and answer the Big Questions about the universe and our place within it. That's an important role, and one that the sense of community that religion offers is worthwhile.

But since nobody knows, no religion sahould claim to have the onloy answer.

If religion would stay the hell out of secular and political life and stop being manipulated as a tool of hatred, the world would be better off.

[stevedeshazer]

33. No

I agree that religion is the cause of much turmoil, but it ultimately is part of the answer to the question, "Why am I here?".

Religion is unavoidable in humans. Every civilization we know of has a developed set of beliefs and customs that constitute religion.

[jandrok]

34. Do you think this would be a better world without money?

It's not about religion. Religion in it's purest sense is an attempt to frame one's place in the larger cosmos. Like any system of thought, it can easily be corrupted by those who wish to use it as a vehicle for other gains.

When in doubt, follow the money. The Protestants originated in an attempt to counter what they believed was a corrupt Catholic system. Are they any better off now? Are the new Mega McChurches REALLY where they wanted to go back when Martin Luther posted his screed?

Follow the money. Money corrupts. Religions that put money ahead of all else are thereby corrupt as well.

Follow the money. People will kill for it. People will kill to keep their self-perpetuating lie alive so that they can hoard more and more of it. They'll start wars and breed fascism to keep the coffers full.

Follow the money.

[noonwitch]

35. Religion vs. Spirituality

Religion is an organized system, with rules and rituals. It's about the name each group uses to call upon the Eternal Presence, the rules and rituals involved in how to call upon that Presence and who is considered to be that Eternal Presence's favorite group of people.

Spirituality is about one person's relationship with the Eternal Source of Life and Light. A religion may be part of that relationship, or it may not, but spirituality is an essential part of our lives, if we choose to recognize it. Spiritual people recognize that God is spirit, thus beyond the labels and rituals of religion alone. Religion without spirituality is what is the problem.

[Walt Starr]

36. I'll qualify it, I think the world would be a better place without...

ORGANIZED religion. If all religion was personal, there would be no issues with religion.

[tjdee]

37. One day you'll get that...

Fundies of all religions are ruining it for all of us, and one day religion will be illegal.

[SmokingJacket]

39. The problem is not religion, per se --

but the things people do in its name, many of which are wrong and downright evil.

But Gandhi was also motivated by religion.

(It's impossible to theorize a world without religion, because it would have to be different in so many other ways, too...)

[Stirk]

40. No, not really. Fundamentalist minds would surely latch onto

something else, perhaps a political ideal, or a social ideal... or eugenics... something.

Today's fundamentalists are poor representatives of their religions, because the message isn't really important to them. It's the rigid structure, the illusion of order, and the comfort of a well-defined "enemy" that attracts them.

I expect we'd be in much the same place without religion.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. No

Religion has been the source of some of the most fulfilling experiences in my life and has been an overwhelmingly positive force for me, as it is for many people.

The "wars of religion" are not really ABOUT religion. They're ethnic or economic conflicts where religion provides a convenient label for the combatants. The Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland are not fighting about the doctrine of Transubstantiation or the status of the Virgin Mary, but about the "Scotch-Irish," who happen to be Protestant, having been favored by the British government over the original Irish, who happen to be Catholic. The Hindus and Muslims in India are not fighting about whether there is one God or many. The Crusades were not about religion (except that it provided a rallying point for armies of ignorant peasants) but about grabbing goodies in the Middle East. If they had really been a Christian versus Muslim battle, the Crusaders would not have sacked Constantinople, which was a Christian city at the time and of the same branch of Christianity that had controlled Jerusalem before it feel under Arab control.

We might as well ban politics, since many, many wars have been fought over political differences.

[ryan_cats]

42. No

As long as there is freedom to practice the religion of choice for each person while respecting the right of others to have their beliefs.

The problems arise when people use the cover of religion to do their evil.

[mcscajun]

43. Without a doubt!

Religion is a crutch; organized religion is a con game. Bill Maher says it's a neurological disorder; he might be right.

Religion is responsible for so many long-standing tribal conflicts, civil wars, pogroms, inquisitions, persecutions and downright horrors.

I wasn't amazed, but appalled at the various religious comments coming out of the recent tsunami tragedy: one woman, who'd lost her children and some grandchildren was wailing "What sin did I commit?" So much for religion being a comfort in her case. Others in Southeast Asia pointed to their house of worship still standing as proof they were 'living right' and talked badly of how others who'd died or lost relatives had not been living pure lives or praying enough.

Too many holier-than-thou hypocrits in the world; too many Christians in name only; too many churches taking their tax breaks and getting involved in politics while their ministers live better than any local businessman. Too much wealth piled up within the Catholic Church along with far too much political power.

Sports teams and politicians cite "God on our side" when they win, but nary a word about God when they lose. Hurricane and tornado survivors speak of miracles with nary a word about what God might have done to their lost neighbors.

Oh, for the day when our President is sworn in Without a Bible and doesn't utter a word about 'faith-based initiatives' and says "Yeah, I inhaled. So What?" Someday, rationality will prevail.

/endrant

[BorrowMyCrew]

44. nope

[DARE to HOPE]

45. I'd like to reply, but it is Wed in Lent, and I am going to church...

:-)

[American Tragedy]

46. No. Human beings would find other justifications for evil acts.

As Voltaire once wrote regarding the destruction and suffering dealt so often in the name of God, "To the wicked, everything is a pretext."

Fundamentalists think that they have been transformed by their faith, but virtually every zealot I have ever met has strongly authoritarian personality tendencies, even before they embrace the hierarchy and dictates of religion.

That is also why nationalism, militarism, and other similar triggers fit so well with their worldview even when they seem contradictory to the documents of their faith.

All religions are a chronology of mortals' struggle to interpret the divine and the unexplainable, and like all man-made institutions, they are flawed.

[earth mom]

47. Yes!

[ChairOne]

48. *Now* it would. There *was* a use for religion 1 or 2 thousand yrs ago...

[mondo joe]

49. I'm afraid there are sheep who need religion to behave.

Yes, religion causes much grief.

But there are some sheeple out there who would have no reason to behave if not for the carrot.stick of heaven/hell.

If that's what they need to conduct themselves decently I don't want them loose without it.

[NervousRex]

50. HELL YES!!!

n/t