Are you pulling a Lieberman when you say you are pro-choice and pro-life?

[trumad]

Sound kind of like you're riding the fence there and trying to have it both ways.

[Padraig18]

1. Nope, we're not.

Some of us are able to have personal, religious/moral beliefs without feeling the need to impose them on others in the political/secular world.

[JohnnyCougar]

2. Precisely.

[Momgonepostal]

6. Well said!

That I would personally not choose to have an abortion should be no concern to anyone else...just like I leave you to make decisions about your own body.

Would we tell someone they have to be gay themselves in order to support gay marriage?

[H2O Man]

11. I agree.

It shouldn't be considered a measure of open-mindedness to reduce this topic to only two alternatives. For the most obvious example, the far-right wants to teach kids to not have sex before they are married. This is foolish. Parents should try to instill values in their children, but human beings are sexual beings, and what society should try to teach is self-respect; respect for others; "high-risk" behaviors; and birth control. More, sex education should be part of public schools.

Starting with that one example, and really investing as a community in preparing our children for life, and we can cut down on a substantial percentage of unwanted pregnancies. Pro-life also means teaching young people that life is good, and that human sexuality is one of the good things in life.

[Pirate Smile]

16. Agreed.

[Sanity Claws]

3. Pulling a Lieberman

I think it should be considered kissing the person who has killed everything that you used to stand for.
I think it should be a new idiom.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. No. I believe people can be pro-life and pro-choice

in that they sincerely desire to lessen the instances of abortion, advocate effective birth control and safe sex measures to where the demand for abortion becomes obsolete. I have no issues with those people.

I simply wish they'd spend their time and money FOCUSING on those source issues instead of abortion since THAT would reframe this argument.

[Padraig18]

9. Some (most?) of us do.

I'm a staunch advocate of birth-control and REAL sex education, and I also believe that our social safety net is TERRIBLY inadequate when it comes to making a truly volunary decision as to whether or not a mother is deciding on abortion, adoption or raising the child after birth. It's hardly a viable 'choice' to keep the child, if the both the child and its mother will almost certainly live in poverty, and the same holds true for a mother who wants to bear her child and offer it up for adoption, if the social 'infrastructure' isn't there to make that a viable alternative.

[Just Me]

14. Yes. Of course one can hold a pro-life position for oneself and still hold

a pro-choice position overall.

Is a "wedge" position being intentionally invoked here?

:shrug:

One has to wonder sometimes. :eyes:

[bowens43]

5. No. Absolutely not.

I am pro-choice and pro-life.

Right wingers who claim to be pro-life are usually pro-fetus, not pro-life. They support the war, they support the death penalty, they support the abolition of social programs etc.

Personally, I don't like the idea of abortion but it's not my place to make that decision for others. Pretty straight forward.

[Burma Jones]

7. Yep...............n/t

[Jade Fox]

8. When can we start talking about how to end the need for abortion...

instead of this constant pro-choice vs. pro-life false dichotomy?

The Right-wing anti-abortionists are trying to control people's sex lives.
They will never support actions that actually reduce the incidence of
abortion. Its up to us to re-frame this issue, and get beyond the endless
arguing past each other.

[trumad]

12. When can we start talking about how to end the need for abortion

As soon as religion leaves us alone.

[Jade Fox]

21. We need to stop letting religious extremists define how we think....

about abortion.

Easier said than done, I know.

[trumad]

28. I look at it more from a contraceptiion point of view.

Especillay within the Catholic Church. They dn't believe in abortion nor contraception

[Just Me]

18. When we refuse to allow the right-wingers to pull us into their wedge.

I want to toss their wedge issue right out the window and start working on common ground.

[saracat]

24. There is no common ground.

They want a say over my body and I don't want to let them EOM.

[johnaries]

10. I agree with the other posters. Personally, I don't believe that

abortion should be used as a birth control method, only for medical reasons or in case of rape. However, I'm a guy. I have no idea what women are feeling when they are considering abortion, and I do not have the right to force my opinion on them.

[Jade Fox]

15. The idea that a lot of women use abortion as a birth-control method is...

a right wing lie. Getting an abortion is not a pleasent experience.

Yes, there are flaky, irresponsible women who repeatedly
get pregnant and end up at the abortionist, but most women are not
doing that.

We need to stop perpetuating this RW lie.

[kentuck]

13. If you are pro-life, pro-Constitution, pro- equal rights for women....

then you have to be pro-choice. If you want to take any of those out of the equation, you can take any position you want.

[Malva Zebrina]

17. Specious use of the English language

imo. Those who claim to be both are actually pro-choice but do not want to admit it or want to continue a member of their group that haspushed that language. In that cult, it is forbidden to use the words, pr0-choice. Further, it does diminish others, who choose to run their lives as they see fit, by implying they are doing wrong and are anti-life. That is immoral and unethical. I think the bastardization of the language by adopting a meme that says nothing re abortion, the attempts to villify, implicitly, those who do choose abortion, and of course those who go to extremes to harrass doctors and women, is immoral. IT causes pain to another human being, disregards their rights as a human being, and is immoral.

They can still claim their religious beliefs so that is no excuse for the intellectual dishonesty of the cult of "pro-life"

"pro-life" is a cult.It was invented by those who want abortion considered a crime and want to eliminate it entirely. As with all cults people have become mesmerized by the catchy say nothing meme.

It says nothing in the context of abortion, especially when it has to be qualified with such things as I support a woman's right to choose.

[trumad]

20. Great post....

[HereSince1628]

19. No this is strategy is consistent with liberalism, well sort of...

This requires you begin with the concept that a liberal is a person who is broadminded.

Broadmindedness isn't only about respecting peoples' varying ways of life and point of view. Broadmindedness can include framing questions in broad terms.

Framing the problem as unwanted pregnancies is bigger and more inclusive than abortion is. In this way sex education and access to birth control get joined to the argument.

Sex education and all forms of contraception are not only traditionally democratic positions, they also enjoy majority popularity.

"Choices" require knowledge and opportunity to act. Pro-choice includes pro-contraception.

Although I am pro-choice I have reservations about abortions particularlry when the fetus can have an independent viability, that leaves me pro-life under some circumstances.

[Padraig18]

22. Again, I think that we've allowed the RW to hijack the terminology.

Howard Dean would probably call me 'pro-choice', since I do believe that a woman should control her own body; in my own mind, however, I'm pro-life, because I believe that from the moment of conception, the fetus has a soul and is a person. What I think the main diference is is that the RW is 'pro-birth', and don't give a damn about the woman, the child, or the consequences of forcing her to carry the child to term, whereas I do care, and deeply so.

[emulatorloo]

23. Pres Clinton - Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare

How hard is that to accept?

[benddem]

25. I am pro-choice and pro-life

I believe that every pregnant woman is entitled to pre-natal care. The no. of infants and children who die from lack of care is far higher than the number of abortions.
I believe that every child is entitled to health care.
I believe that every human is entitled to clean air and water. You cannot be pro life and allow polluters to spew their harmful chemicals in the air.
Everything I believe in is pro life.
The "pro-lifers" are only interested in Fetuses and then not very much. They only care that women cannot make decisions about their bodies and health. Their case is CONTROLLING WOMEN. Have you noticed that 70% of all abortion protestors are male and none of them will ever be pregnant.
I do not believe in ENFORCED PREGNANCY

[DireStrike]

26. Pro-choice IS pro-life

Nobody WANTS to have abortions, even the women that have them.

Criminalizing abortion leads to more abortions that are less safe. Bad for women and fetuses. Fetii. Whatever.

[saracat]

27. Depends on how you vote. If you vote ant-obortion you are

a phony.