Reason for Dubya's "strutting"

[ewagner]

Here's the link to Buzzflash:

<http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/05/03/int05011.html> The article makes perfect sense and explains a lot about the Bush Administration, and religous fundamentalists in general.

But it does raise some serious questions about the manner in which Lakoff (Don't think about an Elephant frames the debate. If this interview and author are correct, any attempt to fram the political debate in "nurturing" terms plays directly into the hands of the Republican spin machine.

on edit: here's a snippit:

BuzzFlash: In your book, The Wimp Factor: Gender Gaps, Holy Wars, & the Politics of Anxious Masculinity, you argue that the current positions and attitudes of the Republican Party and Bush Administration can best be viewed through a certain lens that we traditionally associate with the he-man, the virile figure--you call it the phallus. Briefly, how would you define "anxious masculinity?"

Stephen J. Ducat: It's a culture based on male domination and a culture in which most things feminine tend to be devalued, even if they are secretly envied. In such a culture, the most important thing about being a man is not being a woman. This powerful adult male imperative to be unlike females and to repudiate anything that smacks of maternal care taking is played out just as powerfully in politics as it is in personal life. In fact, political contests among men are in many ways the ultimate battles for masculine supremacy. This makes disavowing the feminine in oneself and projecting it onto one’s opponent to be especially important. This femiphobia--this male fear of being feminine--operates unconsciously in many men as a very powerful determinant of their political behavior. Also, this femiphobia constitutes a very significant motive for fundamentalist terrorism.


Read it, tell me what you think.

[Deep13]

1. He has a pole up his ass. (n/m)

[Bridget Burke]

3. Is Guckert a Polish name?

Sorry--being bad this morning.

[burn the bush]

19. that's why I thought the shrub strutted lol

[uppityperson]

25. Guckerski.

[MadisonProgressive]

26. That made me laugh!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

61. Yeah...his father put it there when he thought W needed some backbone.

[Inland]

2. I think Ann Coulter is going to call this guy a wimp. Seriously.

One, she's emblematic. Two, she's too much of an idiot to realize that she proves his point by demeaning his masculinity as a form of argument.

[iamjoy]

4. Very Fruedian

Do you think the Republicans are compensating?

[ewagner]

5. That's what is implied

And I think it's a valid implication.....

[Rush1184]

15. READ: SEX, LIES, AND POLITICS by Larry Flint

He makes some good points on this.

[KittyWampus]

6. I Posted The Other Day That "Nuturing" Is EMPHATICALLY Incorrect

And it's not just because of Machismo Ethic.

Executive Leadership is NOT nurturing.

The Universal Principle inherent in Executive Leadeship is VISION.

Seeing the Big Picture, setting Goals and providing a Gameplan.

The reason these Liars want Eternal War is because it gives the illusion of working towards a Common Goal and Great Cause. And why the head Liar spoke about Mission to Mars.

This is why I wanted Kerry to focus on establishing a Green Revolution.

That's why the Apollo Project is called what it is.

Framing every situation around the need to retool our economy towards Green Tech would have crushed GOP, IMO.

We'd all be working towards a common goal and benefitting:

Investment/Finance
Industry
Labor
Health

And most importantly our NATIONAL SECURITY.

[understandinglife]

14. Run for office. Not being facetious. (nt)

"NOT ONE LINE OF SOFTWARE BETWEEN A VOTER AND A VALID ELECTION: NOT ONE, EVER AGAIN"

[Cocoa]

7. the way to fight this is to ridicule it

I think this macho mood is temporary, we've progressed past this stuff and we should wake people up to this regression.

For example, that ridiculous scene where the chubby Chris Matthews and the wormy Howard Fineman were drooling all over chickenhawk Bush in his flight suit. They should be made to pay for that, we should remind them of it often so they think twice before jerking off publicly in the future.

And for heavens sake we shouldn't play along with them. Those stupid "pink tutu" pictures were tolerated here at DU WAY TOO MUCH. And the "cojones" stuff HAS TO GO.

[KittyWampus]

9. Still Doesn't Address The Fact That As A PRINCIPLE, Executive

Leadership is not about Nurturing.

Leadership is about Vision & Planning

Nurturing would be the sphere of Civic Organizations, Churches, Families and possibly Business.

Or maybe AGENCIES of the Government nurture.

But NOT the Executives.

[Cocoa]

11. I'm not so sure about that.

There are well-known models of a nurturing president. What about "I feel your pain" and "compassionate conservative?

[KittyWampus]

18. Lakoff Sets Up Dichotomy- Disciplinarian vs. Nurturer

Executive Leadership IS about Discipline/Control

Functionally, it's the "Head" not the Heart.

It's job is to see and sift all info and decide on course of action for the rest of the body.

The GOP is Dicipline run amok. Control Freaks who don't allow the rest of the Body to do its job the way IT sees fit or to have any input.

They don't just tell the Body Politic what to do... they micromanage every aspect of how it is to be done.

And without regard to the Body Politic being able to NURTURE ITSELF.

The correct dichotomy would be,

Hyper-Controlling v. Visionary
Overbearing v. Attentive
Abusive v. Comprehensive

In all these, Nurturing is something to Enable or provide for happening.

Being compassionate or feeling pain isn't about function...

[mopinko]

8. hey, guess what? feminists have been saying this stuff

for as long as i have been one. which is almost as long as there have been any. (in the modern sense)
we all thought that it made for a compelling reason for all our progressive brothers to stand with us and put this kind of shit down. feminophobia costs us all.
but as you can see by the wafflers on choice and other women's issues right here on du, that has not happened.

[Stuckinthebush]

28. Amen! From one of your progressive brothers

I got some push-back from my class the other day when I started to discuss feminist theory as critical social theory. The sad thing was that the most push-back I got was from my female students. When I started to boil down feminist theory to power theory, then people started to open up. There has been a very successful demonization of the word "feminist" by the right. Most people don't have a clue what it means, but when you re-frame the discussion, a majority will probably agree with feminists.

Anyway, I digress. Yes, progressive males should all read feminist social critiques starting at first wave going through the present. It is hard to not rush to stand behind our progressive feminist sisters in their continual struggle once one develops a deeper understanding of feminist social critiques.

[CrispyQ]

10. My first thought: A must read for the DU Book Club!

This whole macho mind set makes me want to retch.

How many have read Ursula LeGuin’s “The Left Hand of Darkness” or Sheri Tepper’s “A Gate to Woman’s Country”? Both are very good reads about the destructiveness of societies based on competition between the sexes instead of a complimentary approach.

Nominating for Greatest.

[Acryliccalico]

12. It seems that the only option we have left

is to set the BED on fire!!! :shrug:

[teakee]

44. LOL

:nuke: :nuke:

[booksenkatz]

13. My dad swears that the Bush Walk is a surefire remedy for

his current neck/cervical problems. He's likely going to undergo surgery soon for spinal compression that's causing tremendous pain when he walks. No painkillers have helped. Then a coupla weeks ago, he tried walking like Bush and he said it virtually relieved all of his discomfort! Am sooooo glad that the sorry barrel of fuck known as "G.W. Bush" has done ONE THING nice for one of my family members.

[Malva Zebrina]

16. Describes one point of view

men have always feared women's blood. Pointed out that the feminine side of men,(that other part of themself) is abhorred by anxious men who overcompromise and strut. May be one reason. We have never had a woman president so we cannot really say men make better leaders with regard to the presidency. I wonder. Do you think it can be applied also to women? Are strong women like Hillary, for instance, hated by women because they are denying that masculine part of themself. For some reason, I can't see it working that way, but :shrug: could be.

The recent big reach out from the lovely Laura the eye lift Bush to young boys as being worthy of redemption while almost ignoring young girls, is an attempt by a subservient woman to boost that strutting male image by trying to influence boy children to develop that phallus and ignore that feminine side.

[ewagner]

17. Interesting points

well worth pondering.....

thanks

[bloom]

52. I think some women are pulled in

to the rah, rah masculinity by fear. They are convinced of the rightness of the war to protect themselves and their children.

I think the MSM news mostly portrays the masculine POV - so women as well as men can end up being clueless as to what the more feminine POV even is.

To some extent - to be successful in the man's world is to adopt a more masculine demeanor. Hillary used to be more for children's rights and such. There has been a change in her focus since the time she started running for Senator through today. It seems she has probably decided that the feminine worldview would not win elections.

It seems that some male world leaders can make what would seem to be a more feminine approach work. Nelson Mandela, Ghandi, MLK.

Fighting aggression without using aggression....

That is why it was so powerful to me when Edwards pointed out about Cheney denying Nelson Mandela freedom (or something). Seems like some Republicans have difficulty accepting MLK as a hero. (They probably don't like Ghandi, either.)

[geekgirl]

20. Mom's Theory:

My mom thinks that he doesn't wear underwear and has his privates swinging and that is why he walks that way.

[ChickMagic]

31. Going comando

would be right up his alley. Swing weenie.

[Alpharetta]

21. His dad got the WIMP label bigtime by the media

He's compensating to avoid the same label. 9/11 made that compensation even more severe because he had to overcome the potential for victimhood.

[maxsolomon]

22. bang on

every time i have "debated" some RW idiot the FIRST THING they do when you make a point is attack your masculinity.

"effemicrat", anyone?

but this is not a new observation.

[ewagner]

23. New to me n/t

[skids]

24. Depends.

That's with a capitol D, as in, the brand name.

:hurts:

[enki23]

27. i just assume he didn't tape the hamster's claws well enough

.

[stanwyck]

29. His college classmates

say he had this same macho posturing back in the day. It's the inferiority complex of a rich boy who isn't very competent and realizes he's a lost ball in high weeds. So, he compensates with the cocky attitude and cowboy walk.
He's really difficult to watch. The walk. The fumbling speech. The hehehe snickering. It's like we have an obnoxious middle-schooler as president.

[atommom]

47. "A lost ball in high weeds." I love it!

:D

[bunny planet]

30. Check out that His Fraudulency was raised by Barbara Bush, an

emasculating toxic mother if there ever was one. No wonder he does so much 'anxious male' posing. The femiphobia is directly proportional to his experience with an overbearing, domineering, non-nuturing mother figure. Remember when their daughter died, Mommy and Popi Bush went golfing. No wonder Jr. has issues.

[Nothing Without Hope]

40. Very true - and that makes him a spokesman for the nonsense

But there is something subconscious and all too widespread in men's minds that these purveyors of anti-gay and anti-woman hatreds and fears are tapping into.

In a couple of other replies ot this thread, I got on my soapbox and said what I really believe -- a huge, carefully planned and executed reframing campaign is desperately needed to counter the poison that is being spewed. It's at the heart of so much that is wrong with this country, the imbalance and ugliness and desperation that is sending us over the cliff to destruction.

It's clear that the book has some useful things to say about the way things are, What I want to know is how to best go about DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Reframing is essential, but what's the best plan? Need that before going forward, and it's way, way overdue.

[Mist]

32. Great article--I want to read the book

Ducat makes a great point re: the Vietnam War "syndrome." The end of the Vietnam War was just when feminism was marching, and just when there was a lot of hostility towards feminism from conservatives. It all fits.

[Swamp Rat]

33. Kick for Lakoff

[Nothing Without Hope]

34. What does this say about how to reframe the language to fight

homophobia?

The anti-gay fear and hatred that is apparently so easily whipped up by the neocons and fundies must be based in SOMETHING THAT IS ALREADY THERE SUBCONSCIOUSLY. What is the basis of this fear that they have so successfully learned how to tap into for their own political gain?

I think the thesis outlined here provides some clues. "This femiphobia--this male fear of being feminine--operates unconsciously in many men as a very powerful determinant of their political behavior. Also, this femiphobia constitutes a very significant motive for fundamentalist terrorism. "

There is such ignorance about what homosexuality really is, that all too many people are open to the demagoguery that has resulted in the poisonous situation that we now have. For example, it seems to me that these ignorant people

*Don't realize that homosexuallity is inborn and are afraid of "coming down with it" themselves by some kind of contagion

*Similarly, since they don't understand that it is inborn, they see homosexuality as a "lifestyle choice" and are encouraged by the lying leaders to believe this. After all, surely God wouldn't create them that way if it was bad, right?

*See gay men as distorted, feminine in some way, yet not fitting into the convenient category of dominatable sex objects like women are.

*Have listened to the distorted cherry-picking of isolated biblical quotes used as weapons by hateful fundie leaders and don't realize just how misleading they are. They believe that "God hates gays."

...and so on.

I believe that a carefully thought out and organized reframing campaign to de-toxify the whole sexual orientation issue is ESSENTIAL. But the right choices must be made in the language used, so that the ignorance can be dispelled and the fear laid to rest.

If this book can help give some guidance on how to go about this, I'm all for hearing what it has to say.

[ewagner]

35. Great post!

Thanks for the thoughtful discussion.

[Nothing Without Hope]

36. I very strongly feel that we at DU need to aid in organizing

the reframing campaign I am talking about -- a strategy to defuse the hatred and fear of homosexuality that has been such a handy tool for the administration and a plague on our entire country.

Because it's not just about justice for people who are gay or bi or trans -- it's about justice for ALL HUMAN BEINGS. The focus on gays by the blivet** administration and the fundies has an almost cartoonish quality, it is so contrived. (And I don't mean cartoonish in its horrible effects, but in its ludicrously, blatantly false presentation.) It's tapping into ignorance and subconscious fears that need to be looked into and countered. I feel this poisonous hatred is at the heart of much that has gone wrong with our country, and the thesis of this book seems to support this idea.

So how do we go about initiating this campaign? I have some ideas and have pointed out the need for this, but few have responded so far. THIS IS SO IMPORTANT!!!

It penetrates all of society. For example, the homophobia undermines national security in multiple ways, as proven in the new GAO report on the effects of the stupid "don't ask/don't tell policy":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x7944
Title: Now there are numbers: Pentagon anti-gay policy forced out skilled troops" (and be sure to read the comment thread, especially the one by swimmernsecretsea)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1632718
Title: "Don't ask, don't tell" is a national security risk & has wasted >$200MM

So far, there have been very few responses to those last two threads -- they deserve much more attention. These are FACTS which directly oppose the administration's stance on gays in the military, but they are not getting enough attention, let alone action.

[atommom]

49. I agree. Keep sharing your ideas!

[Touchdown]

50. Coulter is already injecting testosterone into Guckert.

She says ..."Even our gay men are more macho than their straight men. " Of course she's a nutjob, but at least she's following the party line.

When you think about it, gay men are more manly than straight men, because we don't have to appeal to feminine sensibilities to get laid. There's also the "taking it like a man" thing going on with bottoms, that tops like Guckert are too afraid (girly) of. :evilgrin: Yeah, it's a flip comment, but there is some infentessimal truth to it.

I agree though. Homophobia has always had it's roots in mysoginy.

[bloom]

55. It is interesting how they manage to turn something like that

into an insult against Democrats.


It does seem to be a matter of fighting against the middle-school mentality (as someone here posted)- how does someone fight that? when the people who listen to AC & al. are determined to stay ignorant.

[bloom]

56. dupe

[raysr]

37. When my kids were young

we called it a "poop" walk.

[Toucano]

38. .

[chefgirl]

64. HA!

My thoughts exactly, Toucano!

Although you said it much more eloquently than I would have. :thumbsup:

-chef-

[dback]

39. And, of course, this attitude then feeds into homophobia

And the cycle continues. It involves men's terror at looking "unmanly" in any way. As Loni Anderson said once on "the Hollywood Squares," the one thing a woman should never to do to a man: "Point and laugh." Their fragile little egos implode.

And I say all this AS a man, who just has a low-tolerance for hyper-heterosexual, homophobic "macho" bullshit.

[Nothing Without Hope]

43. YES. You're absolutely right.

I'd be grateful if you read my replies in this thread and let me know if you think I'm on the right track -- I really believe there needs to be a massive reframing campaign to counter all this poison, but it must be carefully planned to disperse the ignorance and fear without triggering WORSE ignorance and fear. If you've ever made the mistake of trying logic on someone who is clinging to a totally illogical religious or political opinion like a sinking ship in a stormy sea, you know what I mean. They can suddenly lash out with fury that comes totally from fear of losing what "safe known territory" they think they have.

The homophobia that is so prominent in this administration and their fundy allies is one especially horrible symptom of a poison that goes very deep in the current national mind-set and that desperately needs to be detoxified. Surely, with so much creativity and wisdom on our side, we can come up with a way to do this!

[ewagner]

46. Massive reframing is right

you are also correct that it has to be done carefully.

Just as a matter of discussion, can you name any stereotypes of men who are ridiculed for faux masculinity?

[Nothing Without Hope]

51. The text of the Buzzflash interview has some political ones

naming names. There must be a lot more in the book.

But I was thinking of the gay-ridiculing "jokes" and cartoon figures that I've seen and heard all my life. They are always so extreme, portraying gay men as sort of distorted, ugly women-like creatures. Definitely unmasculine in a way that plays to the "femiphobia" anxiety and sets them firmly in the underclass, dominated position as well as making them freakish. I think a lot of people have internalized these stereotypes and don't know any better.

[bloom]

53. "sets them firmly in the underclass, dominated position"

I see the fight as being against that attitude that makes femininity bad - whether it is embodied in a woman, a gay man or a straight man.

If you limit it to just being about gay men - you are losing 85%-90% of the people who are being demeaned.

[Nothing Without Hope]

57. It's true - the femiphobia hits women and all nurturing too

but I think the fight against homophobia needs to be framed with different language. It seems to tap into some special kind of anxiety that has been a gold mine for politically useful fear and hatred. The framing needs to be very carefully thought through and planned.

I'm a woman, and I have endured the underclass and under-everything all my life. The despising of all things perceived as feminine is a HUGE poisonous problem, you are right. OF COURSE you are right.

But I do think the anti-gay anxiety, while spurred by the femiphobia, is not the same and needs a different framing approach to be dispelled.

The two battles are related and overlap, but not the same, in my opinion.

[bloom]

58. This was posted on a related thread

but seems relevant (about Freud and penis envy):

“It must be devastating for a male child in early development stage to realize that he is an "other" to his mother, whereas his sister is not. Particularly for men with brutal fathers (like Bush and most repukes, probably) to find out that they are different from their mother who represents safety, love and food, but the same as their fathers who represent fear and pain, it must engender an unbearable amount of self-hatred which they must transfer onto women just to survive mentally.

Many have suggested that Freud's whole outlook was dominated by his hatred and jealousy of his sisters, and that this influenced him throughout his whole career.

It must be terrible to know one will be cast out of the world where you were most safe, and that your siblings won't on the basis of gender.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3206161

------------------------------

IOW - nearly every man - with that line of thinking could have reasons to hate women.

The anti-gay crowd has the support of vague biblical references. But the patriarchal attitude does as well. Gays have become a blatant target - but feminism is a target as well - I think it just isn't as obvious.

I think it's better to attack the whole problem instead of nibbling at the the ankles.

[Nothing Without Hope]

59. Thank you. I agree that the whole problem needs to be attacked

and I have had a lifetime of experience with how women are treated in this patriarchal society from birth on.

Thank you for the thread link and the comments -- they are most interesting and (as soon as I can get this computer into and then back from repair--I'm late already!) I will study them more carefully.

But I still think that the fear of homosexuality, specifically BOTTOM (rather than TOP) homosexuality (which is why "Gannon" seems to be OK with them), is not rooted in exactly the same anxieties as the response to women. Related, overlapping, but not the same. For this reason, while I certainly support feminism (!!!), I do believe that the needed language & religion reframing campaign for homophobia needs to consider different psychology. It has to be very carefully done so as not to trigger MORE fear. I believe we need much input from psychology, sociology, religion, and much else to try to understand and respond the right way. There needs to be massive reframing for both feminist goals and for fighting homophobia, but the wording is not going to be the same and needs to be carefully chosen in each case. Gay men are NOT women and are NOT feminine.

I would love to see more dialogue on reframing for these related issues.

[Frumious B]

41. It's sort of the "your dad at the disco" walk...Wouldn't you say?

It reminds me a little bit of Mr. Ferley from Three's Company.

[Doctor_J]

42. Strut? You mean prance?

The guy walks like a female impersonator.

[Sapphire Blue]

63. You mean like this?

[EC]

45. His strutting comes from the alcohol gait

I've seen it quite often since this town has the most bars per capita in state and Wisconsin was just rewarded with the award for the most binge drinkers...it's from trying to walk drunk for so long, that the gait becomes longer and jerkier, more of a strut than a walk...

On edit: my late husband (who died at 40 from alcoholism) strutted the same way, with the same arm movements too, and it was from the learned behavior of walking while drunk.


But the article does hit on his attitude and smirkiness. But you really will never convince me there isn't anything feminine about Santorum or Delay or Frist, half of the Repugs look like wusses, and sound shrill when they try to "talk tough"

[atommom]

48. I've been thinking this for a long time, and I'm not sure how

to counter it. It's a sickness that runs very deep in our culture. Even "independent thinkers" like Bill Maher like to mock people by comparing them to females. (Maybe he's got a little complex because of that whole lawsuit thing, but it's truly getting on my nerves.)

Femininity is seen as a contaminant, and there is an attempt to repudiate those aspects of one’s self that seem feminine.

So, in a nutshell, the boys who yelled, "Don't touch a girl! You'll get cooties!" are in charge now, and they have not matured.

[bloom]

54. "a sickness that runs very deep"

That is what I see, also. It seems to almost be a requirement for comedians to put down women/femininity.

[Nothing Without Hope]

60. Not just comedians - it's universal

Calling someone a "pussy" or other ugly female-related words is an insult to their most valued quality - being manly. So, significantly, is calling them one of many names related to homosexuality.

When someone acts bravely or boldly, the admiring comment is all too often that they "have balls" or "grew a pair" or other similar expressions. I've never understood the apparent requirement for invoking sex organs in these kinds of discussions, but if they have to be invoked, how about "nads"? It's less awkward than "gonads," EVERYONE has them, and it's in common use on university campuses. I would request that everyone reading this try to consciously use "nads" instead of the male-only terms.

Universal language use is very, very revealing. It follows the images of women being weak, cowardly, generally an underclass and of the most important and valued quality of men being their "manliness" rather than their intellect, experience, wisdom or anything else that truly counts.

[Gabi Hayes]

62. he's holding a potato chip between his cheeks...seasoning it

for later degustation, and being oh so careful not to break it

nuff said?