Analogy

[Hosnon]

Here's something fun to discuss:

Analogies, by nature are to some degree wrong.

If an analogy is absolutely correct, one is describing a tautology. How effective can analogies be?

[alphafemale]

1. A bad analogy is like...

...a pine cone on an elevator. :D

[autorank]

2. Well, lets see, they are the basis for human reasoning.

Is that effective enough for you. They are the analog (sorry) for associational logic/pattern recognition which is about as close to the function of the brain as you can get (except for the function that makes me really hungry about now). If they were tautologies, they wouldn't work. We would always be stuck in one place thinking the world was one large undifferentiated sphere. Well, that's just my opinion...but I'm sure I'm right (this is far to intelligent for GD, why isn't this on The Lounge?).

Excellent post.

[Hosnon]

4. I agree with you that analogies have their purpose...but

aren't all analogies wrong and using them ignores the specificity of real life?

I'll provide an example (under fire I'm sure):

As a youth, I thought that both sexes were equal. A man was a human. A woman was a human. Therefore, a man was like a woman.

However, I now only believe that in a political sense (a la "men are from one planet, etc.)

Is reality too differentiated to be summed up with analogies?

[GaYellowDawg]

12. They're very useful in teaching.

Especially if one believes in a constructivist epistemology.

Basically, this is the idea that meaningful (as opposed to rote) learning comes from associating new concepts with pre-existing ones and integrating them into one's conceptual framework. Analogies can work to bridge the gap between old and new concepts, and are therefore very useful tools to enable meaningful learning.

For instance, I've used an analogy to teach the idea that diffusion occurs faster in warmer conditions. I tell students that molecules that are fluid exhibit random movements. Then, I ask them to envision a mosh pit. Then, I ask them this: if you see a cute guy/girl on the other side of the pit, but it is very tightly packed, will you get to the other side quicker if everyone is moving or if everyone is standing still? Most can immediately answer "moving". Then I tell them that the random movement of molecules is faster at a higher temperature, and bingo. They've got it. Diffusion occurs faster at higher temperatures because all those molecules are banging together at a faster rate, allowing the diffusing molecule to spread faster. The fact that the molecules have no resemblance whatsoever to moshers is irrelevant.:headbang:

[Hosnon]

15. BTW - I'm from Augusta...I assume you are from that wonderful state....

And I agree that analogies are useful to connect ideas. But there is the risk that an analogy will be used incorrectly and be used to justify a result that has no independent basis.

Is there a "reasonable man" standard for analogies?

[Enquiringkitty]

19. That was very good. I wish we had teacher like you here.

A teach here wouldn't be caught dead talking about the pits because others might think she's endorsing them.

[autorank]

13. Analogies are our means of creating purpose.

You can assume a blank slate for the brain meaning it has a structure but acquires all new information and you still need analogies. Danger is determined by an awareness of rough similarities (early on and at a distance we hope) between a legitimately feared object (from experience) and an object (or situation, etc.) that has a roughly analogous structure (appearance, smell, color, etc.). This is how we survive. On a higher level, in love we analogize by matching our comfortable ideal, fetish, etc. with someone who is roughly analogous (by the time we find out its bogus, we're in too deep).

You can assume Kantian categories or a Chomsky deep structure, and the same applies. These are embedded neurological structures that let us filter our world for a variety of reasons. The filters are not precise. They are patterns against which we match what we see in the world and alalogize or not based on the matching qualities.

You ask, "Is reality to differentiated to be summed up with analogies?" My response is, there is no perception of reality, no ability to act on or understand reality without analogies.

But then again, what do I know? I'm just assuming you're a reasonably inquisitive person who is interested in a real dialog on this issue. I must be analogizing.

[Enquiringkitty]

18. As a youth, you did indeed see the truth. It was when your perception

became clouded with adulthood that the analogy seems incorrect on the men/women issue. Kids learn to mistrust from adults.

Men are planks of wood.
Women are nails.
Very different in texture and make-up.
Together they can build many things such as a home.

[libertypirate]

3. Analogies

Analogies make symbolic reference to similarities or differences between what is already known and something that isn't. I haven't ever catagorized an anology in general as absolute or say by the're nature they are wrong.

relative & inconsistent

The effectiveness of an analogy depends on the observations of the person who is using the analogy to explain something. If you don't use the language of your audience they won't understand and the analogy won't work.

When they are conveyed in a story format they it is usually easier to recall the individual points and order.

[Hissyspit]

5. It is not so much that analogies are "Wrong," but that they

break down in effectiveness at some point. The effectiveness of analogies can be seen as existing on a sliding scale, in a sense. Say you are measuring - the difference in accuracy of a discrepancy of 4 feet and a discrepancy of .000000000000005 millimeters may or may not affect usefulness (effectiveness), depending on the purpose for which the measurement is being used. Analogies are cognitive tools, functioning on a symbolic level of some type. Effectiveness of symbols varies. The "pine cone on the elevator" analogy could be more or less effective depending on what it is being used to symbolize.

[Hosnon]

6. I could not agree with you more...for all practicable purposes,

some analogies work. Is there a bright line test to determine what is a good analogy?

[Hissyspit]

7. A Bad Analogy is to: Effective Communication, as Condoleeza Rice is to:

The Truth

Or something like that.

[Hissyspit]

9. Interesting. 'Good' is an awfully subjective term, but maybe this helps:

ANALOGY: A comparison in which two things have sufficient numbers of similar characteristics to conclude that they will probably share others. It is commonly used when a familiar thing is used to explain something less familiar and as such is a basic component of symbolism.

Thus its use in...

ARGUMENT FROM ANALOGY: If X is true, Y is likely to be true if it similar in sufficient, relevant aspects, and if it is not relevantly dissimilar.

Thus...

SUFFICIENCY: In informal logic, the notion that premises must be complete enough to account for a given conclusion. For example, an extensional definition that identifies a sculpture only as "something one can walk around" is insufficient because one can walk around a house, a shopping mall, or the block. Similarly, in the syllogism "The photographer hates models who are late; I am not late; therefore, the photographer will not hate me" is insufficient because the photographer might hate the model for some other, unstated reason.

And...

RELEVANCE: 1. Generally used to indicate practical usefulness and social applicability or responsibility, as in so-called politically correct demands for university courses that are "relevant" to marginal groups in society. 2. A more specific sense pertaining to informal logic, that in an argument a premise must increase the probability of the claim it is intended to support. For example, if the goal were only to demonstrate that Georgia O'Keeffe is internationally famous, it would be irrelevant to point out that she taught in Texas and Virginia. The latter point is true, but it contributes nothing to the claim. A multilingual, multinational bibliography would be considerably more relevant.

[Hosnon]

11. That is sufficient...however, there is of course, as reality requires,

no bright line rule. What of the borderline cases? Who decides what is an appropriate analogy?

[McKenzie]

8. What is the point of your question?

a analogiy describes similarities between two things in order to illustrate a point and is acceptable grammar. An example of a tautological statement is "arrived one after the other in succession" and is simply incorrect use of language.

[Hosnon]

10. Point of question is that no matter how I respond to persons

that are/were for the Iraq War but are against invading Iran, they invoke the error of analogy.

[autorank]

14. Tell then that they are fools and be done with them!

They no doubt remind you of fools from the past or present. Just remember this: WWMTD (What would Mr. T do?)

[Hissyspit]

16. I assume they mean Iraq is not Iran?

which is true. But, there may be many parallels which can be identified.

Seems they are slipping into false logic or syllogism. Just because Iran should not be invaded for the reasons Iraq should have been invaded, does not mean that Iraq should have been invaded. Comparing Iraq and Iran is not necessarily analogy.

[McKenzie]

17. thanks for the reply n/t