Mega-churches: what do you make of them?

[Bouncy Ball]

I was reading an article in this month's "Mother Jones" about mega-churches and found there is a guy named Scott Thumma who has a website on which he documents all the mega-churches in the United States (I'm not sure what the cutoff is for definition as a mega-church, but I noticed none of the ones on his list have fewer than 2000 members).

Here is the list of states. I find it interesting to note which states do not have any mega-churches. The other states, he lists by rank (number of mega-churches). California highest (that surprises me, quite frankly) and Texas second (that doesn't).

http://hirr.hartsem.edu/org/faith_megachurches_database_pickastate.html

So I went to my own state, Texas, and checked some of them out. The highest number of members I found was 18,000 and that was for about four of them. (However, when I looked at a few of those, their own websites claimed their membership to be much higher, around 30,0000.)

The biggest one in the DFW area is the Potter's House. I've been on the highway near it on a Sunday morning---you do NOT want to do that. Bumper to bumper traffic for miles. What I found interesting was when I read about TD Jakes, the minister--he has a book publishing company, a record label, a film company, they are developing a HUGE housing developement (homes from $100,000 to $500,000) and they paid off that $45 million church in just four years. He talks about the charitable stuff they do, but you'd think with all that money rolling in, there'd be much more to it than three wells in Africa and a program to relocate people from impoverished areas (it's very vague on that....???).

http://www.thepottershouse.org/BJ_about.html

What's also interesting is that the Cathedral of Hope made the list. It has 2000 members and is a church that welcomes the GLBT community. In fact, I think most of the ministers there are gay.

http://www.cathedralofhope.com

Unfortunately that ends the list of churches on the list that I know to be progressive.

I decided to look at Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano, with a membership of almost 5,000 (probably more according to them). This is the one that, before the election, was exhorting their members to vote for bush in Sunday school classes, posters around the church, from the pulpit. I tried to call them, but never got through to anyone. I left messages.

http://prestonwood.org/sites/document.asp?did=1042

The Everyday Evangelism blog is interesting (ahem): every single entry is about how to proselytize more successfully.

So why am I writing about all this? I knew megachurches were around, but I had no idea there were this many of them. And in all but a handful of states. Texas has 111. They look like shopping malls and have sports teams, their own huge bookstores, theaters, etc. The article I read in "Mother Jones" is here: http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/03/megachurches.html

It's called "Jesus Christ's Superflock."

Disturbing stuff, especially when you consider how much churches are telling their members how to vote, and when you consider how much money these churches rake in. My God, you'd think with 111 of them in Texas, we'd have no homeless, scant numbers of people in poverty, fewer going to prison, etc. But, hmmm, we don't. Guess that's not much of a priority. Am I being a huge cynic if I think the true priority is getting more members, thus more cash coming in?

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I find them to be the new indoctrination

place for the new Reich.... inocent looking to say the least

Oh and i have no problem with organized religion, just a problem with any Fundie of any flavor

[Bouncy Ball]

4. I don't even know about the innocent looking part.

Some of the photographs that accompanied the article were disturbing, in my opinion.

If this works, here's a photograph of one. Looks just like a huge shopping mall:



Then there was another photograph of a large meeting hall area with an overhead transparency screen that read: "Will People Really Rot in Hell?"

[Walt Starr]

2. It's all a part of our SuperSize culture

Chruches used to be intimate affairs in this nation. Small buildings with groups that were small enough that everybody knew eerybody else.

Mega-churches become impersonal and make it easy to "pass" as Christian in a nation where being Christian has become almost a requirement.

[Bouncy Ball]

3. The article addressed that, actually.

And I found that rather intriguing. These churches picked up on the "suburban/exurban malaise" and turned their megachurches (the size fits the sprawl, get it?) into combination church, meeting hall, entertainment center, neighborhood, athletic programs center, place of employment, support group meetinghall, you name it.

They pounced on that.

[megatherium]

40. Some megachurches address this problem

by having many small groups (bible study groups) whose members can develop friendships and help each other in life. The megachurch in my area does this: they have 55 different bible study groups to serve their 18,000 members.

[Javaman]

42. First meeting of the mega bible studies group...

Speaker: I'm glad you all could make it tonight to the first of many intimate bible study groups...

Audience member: I don't think they can here you in the bleachers...

Speaker: I'm sorry, let me use my bullhorn...

Squeal of feedback

Speaker: Oops, sorry about that, can you hear me now? Too bad Jesus didn't have one of these, huh?

[megatherium]

47. [laughing] It wasn't that bad at the megachurch I once attended --

their bible study groups tended to have 50 - 100 members, or at least the two or three groups I tried. This was at a megachurch of 18,000 members (Southeast Christian in Louisville KY, the sixth largest church in the country). (I won't explain why I went there, but I'm now attending a liberal Episcopal parish.)

[Tux]

56. Huh?

their bible study groups tended to have 50 - 100 members

That is too many for a discussion on Bible.

Then again, I'd be the one in the line that asks, "Is this the line for Metallica?"

[Javaman]

60. A sense of humor folks...it was a joke...oy...

[megatherium]

62. too small for a genuine discussion

but not too small for a classroom style presentation ("Any questions?" "Yes, Paul says such-and-such, does this apply to us today?" "Not directly, but the underlying principle still holds," ...)

More importantly, a group of 50 to 100 can function as a small church within a church. The group is also (barely) small enough for social events such as picnics or restaurant nights (given that often only a fraction go to these). They know each other enough to pray for each other and give each other support (e.g., help someone who is ill).

It wasn't the structure of the megachurch that put me off, it was my realization that I couldn't fit in -- I didn't believe in biblical inerrancy, and so I didn't like the way they handled the scripture. Theologically I'm much more Catholic than I am evangelical. (I'm Episcopalian now.)

[Tux]

5. Interesting

I find mega-churchs as temples of greed. If they have theaters, bookstores, etc, those are not paying taxes since it is part of a church. So they can make a profit, tax-free. They are not contributing to the tax system. They worship god but it is a green piece of paper. Also, if they are telling people what to think, it makes me wonder about the level of education, intelligence, and free-will (mostly this is a concern) that is left in these people.

[jarab]

16. Would have to agree with "temples of greed". eom

...O...

[TlalocW]

6. I'm in Oklahoma

And we have our share. I actually went to one in OKC with a friend while I was visiting her. The sermon itself wasn't that disturbing, and the minister is pretty progressive according to my friend, but everything else weirded me out.

The name of the church is its web address, and it's in big bubble, electric letters on the building - lifechurchokc.tv

You walk in, and immediately to the right is a small tunnel like you would find in an amusement park attraction that leads to the children's area with different animatronic... things. The weirdest was a talking tree having a Biblical discussion with an owl and another bird on its lowest limbs.

The entrance to the "chapel" looks like the outside of a movie theater with display cases that hold the coming attraction poster of whatever the sermon is going to be about. There's a small coffee-haus as well as a book-video store across from the chapel.

The stage is large, and there's a rock band singing various songs - some covers of well-known songs with changed lyrics to be more spiritual, and there are several large-screen televisions, and the sermons are telecast to other areas in the state.

The only "disturbing" thing to me was that it just seemed too slick. The minister would come out (the topic of the sermon was "The Passion of the Christ" which had just come out), and he would talk for a while, but then the lights would dim, and the televisions, which had been displaying him live would then show a video clip of him talking about the subject. This time, it showed him walking in the woods, and he was carrying a railroad tie on his shoulder while talking about the Passion.

My friend had just undergone a religious re-awakening, and she was into it, and I don't think she appreciated my not loving every minute of it. :)

What I dislike a lot about a lot of the mega-churches (at least in Tulsa) is that they'll have bulletin boards on the main highways advertising themselves, and I would think that it would be better to take that money and find worthwhile causes to donate it to.

TlalocW

[Bouncy Ball]

10. That "entertainment" slick factor is seeping into smaller churches, too.

In fact, the two reasons I left mainstream churches were that:

1. My husband and I ask too many questions, and they didn't like that, so we were slowly marginalized by every church we attended.

2. The slickness, the "MTV" factor, as I call it.

For instance, the little Methodist church I was attending for a while a few years back started doing funky things like the minister would have a wok and all kinds of foods set up and he'd do stir-fry and discuss how God is like a chef. He was trying his hand at stand-up comedy, too, and it was awful. At the beginning there'd be this huge band and everyone would be rocking out.

Nothing necessarily WRONG with that (though I do disagree with clapping so much for people up at the front, that just doesn't fit with my beliefs), but I don't go to church to be entertained. I can be entertained at the movie theater, the comedy club, my TV.

I go to be quiet, to listen, to be still, to think, meditate, maybe get some insight or learn something new.

(I just started attending a UU church--they are very progressive/liberal and right up my alley, but I didn't go to church at all for a very long time.)

Anyway. The slickness of it all really bothers me, too. Seems like that's not what church should be about.

[CrispyQ]

45. Obscene is the only word that comes to mind.

And these are the organizations that are going to provide faith-based relief to the poor & needy? Somehow I doubt it.

Thanks to our corrupt politicians, the corporations have loopholes & huge tax breaks to protect their profits & the churches have 'separation of church & state' to protect theirs. The masses are footing the bill for everything.

How much longer will the sheeple fall for this load of crap?

[Cleita]

7. There's two of them in my community. I think our elected leaders

should take them over with that eminent domain statute and turn them into homeless shelters and free clinics for those who don't have adequate health coverage. I think this is what Jesus would have done.

[Bouncy Ball]

9. Turn those money changers out of the temple.

[EC]

8. It's the "Big Stores" of Tent Evangelists

Get Rich Quick schemes, it's just money....I don't believe any of these shysters really believe in what they preach...larger congregations = larger profits, and since they've gone political, it increases their base...



An Aside: Carnevale is getting interesting, they've now introduced where the preacher is getting involved with the government...could get really good

[bloom]

11. The "Branding" big box mentality

I guess people like all the variety of things offered.

It's not for me.

For the churches that get it going - it sounds like quite the money-making venture. Just the thing Capitalists would love.

[Bouncy Ball]

12. Oh heck yeah.

Just go to the websites of some of them and look at all the money pies they have their fingers in.

I can't help but think of all the good they could do if they actually used most of that money to help people.

I mean the Potter's House, for instance--I use this as an example because I looked at their site more extensively--they've built two Habitat for Humanity houses.

Two. But they paid off a $45 MILLION church in four years.

Seems to me they could have built a whole slew of HH houses.

[Ms. Clio]

13. You shouldn't be so surprised by California

Southern California has been a bastion of evangelism since at least the days of Aimee Semple McPherson.

[Bridget Burke]

14. Not to my taste....even if I weren't atheist/agnostic!

But not all of the megachurches are into the political angle. Some are moderate or even liberal. They can be useful to newcomers to a city, or the newly divorced. Some smaller churches are cliquish & unfriendly.

The fake "Christians" horning their way into politics are dangerous. But they are not identical to the megachurch phenomenon.

And California--especially Southern California--has been on the forefront of modern evangelism. Don't be another victim of the false Red State/Blue State dichotomy.

[BiggJawn]

15. I see a lot of Indiana Megachurches are listed as "NONDENOM"

Non-Denominational...Oh, really?

Most of the ones I recognized might as well come out and declare themselves UPC or AOG, since they believe all the Pentecostal stuff anyway.

[hippiegranny]

17. They are the Wal-Marts of religion

I find them to be nothing more than a legal way to rip off the government. Which of course, they get away with, especially now that they are running PR for the current crop of idiots.

[Bouncy Ball]

46. In 2003, the bush administration gave

$3 BILLION of taxpayer money to churches.

$3 BILLION. Yeah.

[Bamboo]

18. The Old Testament is Suburban,the New Testament is Urban.

James Twitchell wrote about megachurches and said on NPR that they appeal to men because they do not require kneeling.http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743243463/qid=1109701961/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-7962357-4000768?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 Americans like to be high and powerful and in Tampa a megachurch had a drawing for a Hummer to attract new members and news attention.I know Catholics who go across town to a church with better "atmospherics" than their local church,the stained glass and acoustics make it like a ride at Disneyworld.I see megachurches consolidating thought like media syndication but mostly churches are where people purchase piety or provide kickbacks to god.Getting through Sunday now is like ordering a pizza for dinner,just give me a way to fill my belly for the least cost and effort.Those little churches will be around for weddings,men get on their knee once to propose and women go to church once to get married.Putting makeup on your conscience or polishing the hood of your soul is required maintenance some let slide,if you put off cleaning the bathroom of your karma then things get slimy.

[Roland99]

19. Six Flags Over Jesus - Southeast Christian Church - Louisville, KY...29k+

http://www.southeastchristian.org/com_churchhistory.cfm

April 10-11, 2004
Southeast breaks another weekend worship attendance record with 29,424 attending our four Easter services and Sunday evening Vine service.


Brings a whole new meaning to the term, mass.

BTW, that was from a year ago. They are still expanding.

Check out this aerial photo from 3 years ago:
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/addressimage.aspx?T=4&S=11&Alon=-85.671268&Alat=38.292820&W=1&opt=0&qs=920+Blankenbaker+Ln%7cLouisville%7cky%7c&addr=920+Blankenbaker+Ln%2c+Louisville%2c+KY+40207&Lon=-85.54569483333333&Lat=38.227822464999996

(notice the distance scale in the bottom right)

[Don Claybrook]

27. and I thought I was the only one calling it Six Flags Over Jesus

I'm in Louisville too, by the way.

[Roland99]

29. Been calling it that since before they moved from Hikes Point

and the plans for the big massive complex were made known.


Utterly ridiculous.


And it so happens I end up on Blankenbaker on a Sat. afternoon or Sun. morning on my way to Sam's club. I guess I do it on purpose to flaunt my bumper stickers!

"Bush Was Wrong All Along"
"Republicans Against Bush"
"America's No CARB Diet"
"Keep Your Religion Out of My Government"
"Can't Wait Until 2008"

And my "Evolve" fish plaque :)

[megatherium]

43. I know that church well,

having attended there briefly on a couple of occasions. I'm now attending a liberal Episcopal parish.

The atrium lobby is like an airport terminal. I expect to see a sign on the end that says GATES 1-21. They have a full-service Christian bookstore on the premises, as well as sports facilities, a large cafeteria, many classrooms, and a main sanctuary that seats 9,000.

There's a part of me that finds this kind of church attractive; colleagues of mine are members. But I cannot stomach the theology: Biblical inerrancy. Their bookstore has numerous young-Earth creationist titles (along side a few Intelligent Design old-Earth creationist titles). They also have all the end-times prophecy books, including those obnoxious Left Behind novels. And Catholic-bashing books too.

And now they're going to be hosting an anti-gay conference, with speakers explaining why homosexuals can change. Ughh.

[Bouncy Ball]

48. Dear LORD

that is ginormous!!!!

[Morose]

20. I think one should sit beside each Super Wallmart.

nt

[Blue_In_AK]

21. I can only speak to the Anchorage Baptist Temple...

...which is to the RIGHT and has seceded, I believe, from the Southern Baptist Convention. Scary. Their pastor, Jerry Prevo, is a Jerry Falwell wannabee who, besides his huge church, has a TV station, a couple of radio stations, and a school, plus several tax-exempt properties where his various "ministers" live. Prevo and his minions are constantly poking their noses into Alaskan and national politics. To me, they are a cult, pure and simple.

[BillyDoc]

22. Religion is like a virus

It replicates and spreads, and does great harm.

Christianity, for example, requires its adherents to "believe" and "have faith" which are exactly opposite of the practice of "reason" . . . which most Christians would acknowledge as "God's greatest gift." Is that a contradiction? You bet it is!

Entertain enough contradictions in your thought machinery and you will find that you don't have the machinery any more. You will cause actual, physical, brain damage.

If you want to know more about breaking your brain, check out the phenomenon known as "critical periods" as it applies to cognitive processes.

[ComerPerro]

23. The problem isn't so much Christianity itself

Its the people who don't follow the religion, but follow religious leaders.

They are the problem.

For example, watch TBN for a while. Its amazing, because during the sermons you will not hear a word, not a word, about treating people well, about being good to others, about helping people, about peace, or about tolerance. You will just hear how to better your life, how to live happier with more money, and how terrible non-Christians are.

Islam is having the same problems. Look at the Taliban, look at terrorism. All people who only use their religion as a way to promote their own self-importance.

The problem with religion is the blind faith required. It leads to complacency, and to blind obedience. Soon, what you see is not a religion but a cult.

Practiced properly and responsibly, religion can be a beautiful thing.

But sadly, few people are doing this.

[ChairOne]

32. That's why s/he said "religion" and not "christianity".... sheesh /eom

[Bridget Burke]

34. s/he wanted to ensure that all religions were included.

Since, of course, DU hates all religions!

[TheMightyFavog]

24. Bethel Lutheran in Madison, WI should be OK.

They are ELCA. Those guys aren't exactly Falwell-types.

I'm surprised that they are that big.

[onager]

28. Rev. William MONEY

...was Los Angeles' first flim-flam evangelist, according to local historians.

A Scottish immigrant, he came to town in the 1850's and apparently collected a ton of money from lonely widows and the like. He finally attracted the unwelcome attention of the local newspaper, the Los Angeles STAR.

For "persecuting" him, Rev. Money prophesied that both L.A. and San Francisco would be destroyed in earthquakes.

Southern California has a LONG history of attracting nutball religions. Frank Lloyd Wright blamed it on the weather, since the local climate resembles that of the so-called Holy Land.

Along with Aimee Semple McPherson, who talked her way out of a really juicy sex scandal in 1926, we gave America interesting phenomena like the Purple Mother, the Great I Am, and the church that later mutated into the "Aryan Nations" movement--The Church Of Jesus Christ-Christian (the name sent the message that Jews were unwelcome).

One of our most colorful messiahs was an ex-con who reinvented himself as "Krishna Venta." In the Fifties he ran a sort of commune based in Box Canyon, near Los Angeles. Venta enjoyed re-enacting the Passion Of The Christ every Easter, pretending to be nailed on a cross while crouched on a hidden bicycle seat.

Venta made a common messianical mistake when he had a revelation that the wives, daughters, and girlfriends of his followers were supposed to "cleave only unto him." In other words, they could only have sex with Venta.

A couple of Venta's disgruntled and presumably horny male followers strapped dynamite to their bodies and took out Venta, along with his church.

[Ezlivin]

25. Were the terrorists blind or ignorant of American culture?

If they wanted to kill a bunch of people and make a statement, crashing jets into several of these mega churches on a Sunday morning would work. In fact, a friend who drinks the KoolAid regularly at Bellevue Baptist in Memphis asked me why they didn't strike his church. He reasoned that there were plenty of people to kill in one convenient location.

I was glad he brought it up because I had thought along the same lines. The same number of planes used on 9/11 could have easily killed over 20,000 people. :(

While striking the towers on 9/11 was a spectacular special-effects event suitable for television viewers, striking the churches would garner essentially no viewers. Hmmmm.

[Bouncy Ball]

50. Yikes.

[CrispyQ]

55. What an idea! I'd never considered this possibility.

I think if they had targeted chruches they would have inflamed this country more than they did hitting the towers!

[Solly Mack]

26. Let me tell you about Free Chapel on the list

It all began in a run down house in a run down section of Gainesville , Georgia behind the "original" El Sombrero's. It was a guy by the last name of Farmer whose grandmother started the "new" "church".

She had the "calling" I was told by her grandson. Anyway...the church went through stages...getting bigger and bigger. Really odd considering it's ultra humble roots and socio-economic level of it's founder and foudning members. Gainesville is very class conscious. ...and I mean VERY...

As it got bigger it moved to 2 different abandoned strip mall buildings. Once they even took over the abandoned Wal-mart. Don't get your hopes up...the building was only abandoned for the new Super-Wal-Mart that went up in another location in the same town.

It took about 10 years for this church to go from a shack with peeling walls and holes in the floor in a very bad section of town to bigger and better digs.

How did they do this? Easy. They required members to sign over their homes, cars, boats...anything of value....to the church. They will hound any member that has any friends outside the church. You can be a part of the church or you can have your non-church friends...but you can't have both. They apply the same rule to family members. The church will tell you that people give up their homes and property willingly...and maybe they do - After they drink the Kool-Aid. :)


Now the church is HUGE. Newly built, in a new location (heading toward Oakwood on McEver) that can hold thousands, with a main sanctuary, and another one on the same plot of ground, connected via a PA system. Across the street from this HUGE church...and I mean HUGE...sits the Fellowship Hall. Where teens groups, bible studies, etc. meet. It's just as big as the church.

These are scary people. They are the kind that ask you your religion if you're applying for a job and a church member happens to be the personal director. They will ask you about your religion anytime, any place, anywhere.


Now, the officially sanctioned story of the church's beginning is something else entirely. Be that as it may....I was childhood friends with Farmer's wife and was still around when my friend and Farmer got married, had children , and eventually divorced. I KNOW better.

[Lady Effingbroke]

30. I'm in Houston, home of the ginormous Lakewood Church (and the infamous

Joel Osteen). How big is it? Well, the Lakewoodies just took over the 20,000 seat Compaq Center/Summit, where the Rockets played (and where I saw many a concert as a teenager). :smoke:

http://www.lakewood.cc/index.htm

[jswordy]

31. HELLUVA GOOD WAY TO MAKE MONEY! Wish I'd thought of it

[Bouncy Ball]

53. No kidding.

Raking it in. And the Bible says to tithe 10%, baby.

[jswordy]

54. Do they still run those ads in the back of "Rolling Stone"...

...offering to make you a mail-order preacher? I can gin up some fire and brimstone, if the price is right! Heheheheh...

[Fleshdancer]

33. Here in Austin, Shoreline bumper stickers are everywhere

Shoreline is on the list of Mega-churches. It's odd to me to see people putting bumper stickers on their car that advertise their particular church. Shoreline stickers have been popping up all over the place here in North Austin. My first thought is "cult". :shrug:

[hfojvt]

35. the part that bothers me

is the distances that people will drive to hear some charismatic preacher or "Bible teaching" church. As a poor man, I am always disgusted when I look at all the shiny cars parked around a church. Or I will see a bumpersticker on a $15,000 minivan that says "my treasure is in heaven". Whatever else they may be, these fundies are not poor, or even working class. Probably the TV churches are bigger, and the mega empires such as Billy Graham. The Grahams make over $100,000 annually, so if they were liberals Marx would call that "false consciousness".
I think a megachurch is like any other type of cancer, it has probably grown to the point where it is not healthy for the community. Then again, it is probably a natural result of cities which have grown too large.
Maybe a huge church with a huge parking lot is more efficient than many smaller churches, but a church really should be a neighborhood resource.

[spanone]

36. Obscenely wasteful. McChurches.

Most of these huge churches also have hundreds of thousands of dollars in audio & visual equipment that would rival many newsrooms/recording studios around the nation. I guess when you don't pay taxes you have surplus money to spend.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. I have first-hand knowledge of only one megachurch on the list:

Mount Olivet Lutheran Church in Minneapolis, with 6000 members.

I attended a couple of times when I lived in Mpls before about twenty years ago, and I felt as if I was being processed rather than having a worship experience.

They have services at 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 on Sunday morning. You go in, get shown to your seat, and they start the liturgy at top speed. You sing no more than two verses of any hymn. The sermon is timed to the second. If you want Communion, you have to take it in a side chapel. The service ends at 45 minutes past the hour on the dot. Volunteers direct traffic in the parking lot so that the people from the previous service go out one way as the people from the next service are coming in another way.

It's perfect for people who don't want a bland, not terribly involving religious experience.

A lot of people refer to Mount Olivet as "McChurch."

[GreenPoet64]

38. Christianity perverted by a corporate model . . .

Large church = big building & big salaries
Big building = big monthly expsenses
Big expenses = huge need for donations
Demand for donations = Need for huge attendence
Demand for attendence = Need for advertising
Proselytising = Free advertising


I believe the pressure put on evangelicals to "witness" to non-christians has increased tremendously with the shift from the little corner church to these mega churches.

As someone who managed to get out of the movement, I have seen first hand the cunning methods Christians use to convert (I used to use them!).

I believe the big divide that we see between Dems and Republicans is a result of this huge push for "witnessing" to increase and maintain church membership.

[UdoKier]

39. Megachurches are no different than moonie rallies.

Sometimes you see their "services" on TV, with the slick "preacher" smiling and telling them how they will make a BUNDLE through God's love... ANd they sit slack-jawed and glazed-eyed and just nod in approval.

Just another kind of mind-control cult, this time mixed with the gimmickry of Amway-type scams.

At least it's mostly republican A-holes getting bilked...

[kcwayne]

41. Why waste a bumch of money on the poor and infirm when you can build

a huge temple to the almighty? The poor will always have their hands out, and nothing you can do will stop that. At least when you build a mega church, the contractors and real estate agents will take YOU out to dinner. And don't forget the kickbacks. Parisoners are never pushy about digging into the books to figure out where all that cash is going. The bigger the church, the more cash they give, and your profit margins, er I mean tithing commitments to God go up.

[Javaman]

44. Converting football stadiums to churchs...

Just you wait.

Speaker: Let's have a holy hail mary for god!!!

Audience: Hail Mary!!!

Speaker: Let's have a two person conversion for god!!!

Audience: Con!!!Version!!!

Speaker: Now let us pray, Dear lord, please deliver these people through the goal posts of heaven, let them not have a touch back, let's all be lead to the big touch town of life and score one for Jesus!! Can I have an Hut one Amen???

Audience: Hut!! One!! Amen!!!

[theboss]

49. They are, um, mega

I don't understand the question.

[Bouncy Ball]

57. Well that's ok

plenty of other people did.

[leftofthedial]

51. mass marketing

of mass delusion

[Uzybone]

52. Mega church = Mega fraud

if Jesus was here Im sure he wouldnt minister to a mega church. Total waste of money and do nothing but make the "preachers" richer.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

58. As others have said, I assume it's about the money.

I drive by one of the churches mentioned in the original post all the time, it's simply enormous, has its own fancy gym facilities and such. I've heard they have their own Brinks truck that comes through there.

I'm not religious and don't go to a church, so I'm not super knowledgeable observing as an outsider. I don't know if their money comes primarily from the tithing or whether there are other money making scenarios within, whether it's charging memberships to things like the gym/rec centers, or other events happening there.

I'd be willing to bet the biggest/richest of these pay big bucks to attract the most entertaining/charismatic pastors to be a draw for their church, like a sports team. Wouldn't surprise me if the "big name" pastors at these megachurches make huge incomes. I see them as businesses and this would be good "business sense", like getting Celine Dion to play at Caesar's Palace. Anyone know anything about this?

Hey BB. You and NightTrain didn't post anything for a while, had me worried...

[BeTheChange]

59. Ahh.. Prestonwood.

I'm a Christian that is afraid of churches, Im spiritually ecclesiophobic when it comes to mega churches. However, I had no idea the true extent of one of these places until I attended the Prestonwood Christmas Extravaganza.

I loved the Starbucks on the way in, it was a nice touch. Especially when the part in the play where Jesus typically says, "Money changers, get out of my Father's house", was mysteriously absent.

Elves rappelled down from the 4 story ceiling, full dance numbers that rival Branson or Broadway were performed, angels in beautiful costumes floated around suspended by wires, a whole barnyard of animals including 4 camels were pranced across the stage.. It was nothing like Id ever seen before.

By the time the resurrection happened I was completely overloaded. The lightning was flashing, lasers were boring through smoke.. it was downright apocolyptic. At the end the Minister said he wanted to thank a special guest for coming and introduced Jerry Falwell to adoring praise from the audience.

It's just all flash and no substance. Religion has lost relationship and is pulling out the last of the big guns.

[Nikia]

61. Many Catholic churches are "megachurches"

If you define the criteria as anything over 2,000 members. The Toledo Diocese wants to close several churches and combine. Their goal is to average 2,000 Catholics per church. This, of course, has angered and saddened many rural Ohio Catholics who are losing their churches. At least a few of the larger town Catholic churches have 5 digit memberships. Of course babies are considered members too, but still theses are large churches just like these non denominational megachurches.