Liberals are rich?

[Bouncy Ball]

I just read an article in Mother Jones which, while good (for the most part), makes a few assumptions about liberals, the biggest of which is that we are wealthier/more affluent than most Americans.

I don't think that's true at all. I'm not wealthy.

What about you?

[alcuno]

1. The more education you have, the more likely you are to be liberal.

Ergo, you will have more money because of your education. I believe it. However, the corporate class is a separate entity. Republicans.

There is a difference between affluent and wealthy. Wealthy people are more likely to be Republicans - the 500k plus crowd. There are very few people in that category.

[Bouncy Ball]

2. So how do you define affluent?

[proud patriot]

3. We're so poor , we qualify for California Healthy Families for my son's

health insurance :shrug: both my husband and myself
have no Health insurance and have not taken a vacation
for over three years .

[SmokingJacket]

4. But rich people also tend to be republican...

they vote that way to protect their investments.

So I think the effect cancels itself out.

(Oh, and I'm rich in many things... but not money.)

[ohkay]

5. The upper middle class,

the $80-150k per year types are more likely to be Liberal. The poor people with 8 kids and a trailer are more likely to be R.

Don't flame me, you know that's accurate.

[sonicx]

6. Kerry got the majority of low income voters

[ultraist]

7. Sorry, the statistics show otherwise and middle class is $36K to $89k

Bush won the majority of the upper middle and upper income voters. Kerry won the majority of the poor, lower and middle income voters. Of course, there are upper middle and upper income Democrats as well as very wealthy Democrats such as George Sorros, but Bush won the majority of these voters by a fairly wide margin.

CNN exit polls as well as other polls on demographics of Repukes make this clear.

The US Census Bureau stats on income put middle class at $36-89k with the median income at 43k. Above 89K is the first strata of lower upper class.

[Fescue4u]

15. 90k upper class

Funny, I dont feel upper class.

[TahitiNut]

17. $90K is at the 90th percentile of individual earnings.

[Fescue4u]

19. I'll have my butler explain that graph to me

:)

Seriously though, what is that graph trying to tell us? % against % sounds like a good way to twist some numbers, although in this case Im not smart to understand what it was twisted into :)

[sandnsea]

18. You've got that backwards

Low income people do still vote Dem. Check the exit polls. Under $50,000 Dem, over $50,000 R. If low income people voted, we'd always win. Almost 20% of the voters were over $100,000, while only 10% of the population is in that bracket.

[vixengrl]

8. I'm from a working class background.

My primary education was public school, and I went on to study at a small Catholic college. I'm liberal because I value the concerns of working people, and think there should be value returned for labor, and a social safety net to protect those who can't do for themselves. I think of the liberal point of view as humanitarian--an extension of my moral/ethical values--and I come to my impression by way of experience. I would not have necessarily soaked it up in my education. I found some of the more narrow/conservative people around me were doing better than my family when I was coming up, and I sure couldn't qualify as an "elite" today. I kind of laugh when I consider the term "limosime liberal". A good few of the liberals I've known *do* travel in a nice long vehicle, chauferred by someone else--it's called public transportation!

[HeeBGBz]

9. Somewhere around poverty level

But rich in spirit.

[BiggJawn]

10. The rich ones won't respond to this thread....

They'll reflect on their good fortune and throw away another $50 on NPR then have a Ventissimo Muy Grande Chi-Chi at Spend-Bucks to feel better.

[FM Arouet666]

14. Great book, I read it over my recent vacation.

The book was published in 96, before the rise of the chimp, and the last few chapters are frighteningly appropriate for our time. RIP Carl Sagan.

[BiggJawn]

40. It sure is.

I think it gives valuable insight into other cultural phenoms, like the cults of the ribbon magnet and "Magical 9-11 teddy bears". Oh, the "Angel" cult, too. My GF's sister is heavily into THAT one...

[Extend a Hand]

11. in my upper middle class neighbor hood

shrub signs outnumbered Kerry signs four to one :(

One of the only other two Kerry signs besides mine belonged to a Treasury agent that had been on guard duty for the shrub.

And once someone even stole the sign out of my yard.

[FM Arouet666]

12. Good question, I would say no.

I certainly don't consider myself rich, but I am a DINK, double income no kids with both my wife and I being physicians. I would say 90% of my neighborhood and colleagues are chimp supporters. The majority voting their pocketbooks. My feeling is that the super rich, assets greater than a few million, are mostly republican. I am sure there are statistics on this somewhere in Internet-land.

[hfojvt]

23. I wonder why nobody thinks of themselves as rich

Two doctors in the family! How could that possibly be rich? Often people with high incomes buy expensive houses and expensive cars and thus struggle as much a people with lower incomes. That expense may seeem necessary to get a decent home in a decent neighborhood. A newer car is probably also safer and less trouble. Still, if you can live where you want and drive what you want instead of having to live where you can afford and drive what you can afford, you are probably rich. Webster Hubbell said he made $150,000 one year, but his expenses were greater and so was his stress. Yet that income put him in the top 5% nationwide.

[FM Arouet666]

24. You are probably correct, "rich" is a matter of perspective

I must admit I feel guilty, I live in a very nice neighborhood much better than where I grew up. Dad had a good job, but we struggled for every amenity. No one in my neighborhood had a nice car. I spent the last 15 years in school, fighting to get into a good undergraduate college, and a harder fight to get into med school. Residency was a 110 hour a week nightmare, for five years.

Yes, I don't think of myself as rich because my expenses are large, my house is expensive, I have a new Porsche, but I still have to think about money. I agree, I am the pathetic working rich, enslaved by my own excesses and my drive to attain my current career.

I often wonder, why do I have all this? Part is hard work, but the reality is I also had opportunity bestowed upon me by our current society. Yes, a white male. I realize that a majority of Americans do not have what I have, I see patients every day which have trouble filling basic prescriptions. I see patients other physicians refuse to see, because of a lack of insurance. I volunteer my expertise, and contribute to a host of humanitarian and political causes. And I vote Democrat. I think "rich" is a mindset in which you feel better than everyone else, when you can do what you want without concern. Rich is the republican ideal of purity, you can do no wrong, because you are "one of us." So, I say again, I do not feel rich.

[hfojvt]

30. I am not sure about that

The Republican rich often deny that they are rich, that's why they want and need tax cuts. (And on the house floor Republicans defined $100,000 - 250,000 as middle class) Lots of times, they work very hard too. I knew this one old fellow who owned a bunch of apartment buildings and he was about 70 and still working as a temp. He was a hard worker too. Unlike myself, he made worker of the month. One time I saw him going into Target when I was ringing bells for the Salvation Army. He marched right by, refusing to even look at me. Actually, I am sure he did not know it was me, or he might have stopped to chat. It would have just killed him to donate 25 cents or a dollar to a charity.
Vance Packard wrote a book about the lives of people who were worth $100 million. They all claimed to live on very little (because their corporations supplied them with everything), and I remember one real estate developer who said lots of other rich and powerful people thought he was nuts, but he was proud of all the housing he had built.
A new Porsche sounds really cool, but I hate to drive anything that is not automatic.

[MrSlayer]

13. HAHAHAHA!! Yeah right.

I make enough to cover the basics, wealth is something I'll never see.

[jdots]

16. the only way to make money during facism is through evil

Strange that Mother Jones would think liberals were affluent in these times of anti art and culture.
Maybe Mother Jones is trying to attract advertisers.

[BrendaStarr]

20. Big inflation in land values in blue areas too

That has increased the fortunes of many home owners, but the rest of us must run to keep up.

In my area prices of "affordable homes" went up 100% in 2 years with rents going up at least 70% for rental homes (apartments without garages were pretty stable during the whole time). Housing cost were onerous before that happened, unfortunately.

And the higher incomes we need to have just to live make us appear affluent on the federal level.

This is a big danger (and housing prices seem to be on the rise again this year).

Now when we talk about the govt helping the poor we are talking about them giving our blue state money to red areas.

Also Rush and Hate radio has convinced a lot of the white poor that minorities are the problem.

[magellan]

21. We don't fit the stereotype well

Low income (self-employed), home is a double-wide, and we're both ex-military. But we've always been liberals. I guess someone was watching over us to make sure we turned out LEFT! lol

[Locut0s]

22. That depends on how you are defining "wealthy". I would say...

a very good majority of those who are truly wealthy are right wing. As you go down the scale though things get a little less clear. Included in those who are in the upper middle class to lower upper class are many educated liberals. Things get even more mixed up as you go farther down, many of those in lower income brackets are right ring because of ignorance mixed with extreme conservative social values instilled in them from a birth. However there are also a lot of lower income left wing people. I think if you subtract the truly wealthy from the equation then geography becomes at least as important, Canada has a similar "blue state / red state" geographic breakdown as the US does.

I guess my own family falls into the upper middle class range. Unfortunately within my own family I know how wealth breed right wing qualities. Two of my uncles are fairly wealthy and they are both conservative, one to such an extreme that we just have absolutely nothing in common and have recently had some very serious family squabbles with, the kind that often does damage that can be very hard to repair.

[Withywindle]

25. Two different "elites"

There's the "intellectual elite" and the "economic elite." It's been a very effective Repuke talking point to conflate them, but they are NOT THE SAME PEOPLE.

I have a college degree. I have an arts/media related job. "Tastemaker," ya know. Heh. And my income is solidly lower-middle-class; I rent an OK apartment, I ride the bus (and taxis late at night). I have a lot of friends who got more degrees than me and work in academia, and, well, none of 'em have big houses or late-model cars or fat stock portfolios. Yeah, we are that tattooed, latte-drinking sushi-eating freakshow--and we don't have any more economic say in anything than anybody else making 35K. I suppose in theory my degree could have gotten me into some higher echelons of something--but not in '92 when I graduated, under the first Bush recession. I went straight to service work and food stamps!

I don't mind or anything. I really like my life now. I just resent being accused of having power I don't have, because if I did have it, I still like to think I'd do a lot better with it!

edit: and if Mother Jones magazine is falling for it, for heaven's sake....! They should know better.

[freestyle]

41. You got it. Culturally maybe, economically definitely not.

Liberals may lead richer lives, or at least like to think we do, but are quite underrepresented in the ranks of the truly wealthy. My partner and I are middle class (really, joint income around 60K), but enjoy the eastern liberal elite cultural life the republicans like to deride. Are we rich financially, not hardly. Are our lives rich, you betcha.

[Swamp Rat]

26. I have no money but I'm very wealthy in a non-tangible sense.

I hope I don't have to sleep on the street again, but I've got a hundred Hemingwayesque stories to tell... if I can remember them all. ;)

I have thousand or so books in my home. In fact, the house needed extra 4x4s added to keep it from collapsing from all the weight of the books.

I have musical instruments which I use to enrich my life and those around me.

I live in a family of artists and professors and free-thinkers.

I live in the "bluest" city South of the South - New Orleans is truely a Caribbean city, and a very culturally rich one.

I have 15 years of university training and a couple of degrees... hence, I have high-quality toilet paper in frames. :D

Yet, I have no money and literally play on the street to suppliment my tuition expenses... did I mention I am a professional graduate student? :)

I have travelled and lived on 4 continents and speak a few languages, thus opening my mind to many beautiful cultures and ideas. I did this on the cheap, hitch hiking in places like Telemark, Norway, the Pan American Highway from Nicaragua to Costa Rica to Panama, Spain, France, Germany, Austrian, Italy, Hungary, Belgium, Holland, traveling all over and living Brasil... etc.

Nothing I have is worth any "money," but I consider myself very very "rich."

I don't like labels like 'liberal' or 'conservative' but most here might consider me liberal in the extreme. I love the words 'liberal' and 'liberty' and consider them good descriptors for tenets of my personal philosophy.

I have lots of brilliant friends here at DU. :D

[Pachamama]

28. If I wasn't married Swamp Rodent, I'd become your sugar mama happily

:hi: Oi Swamp Rodent!

You are rich in so many ways and in the most important ways!

Prosperity as it should be defined....

But like I said, I'd happily be your sugar mama if I wasn't married...then you could continue to be "rich" but not have to worry about paying the next bill for tuition... :hug:

[Swamp Rat]

29. Oi Pachamama!

Muito brigado cara! :hi:

How's the Pachababies? Are they better? Did Pachapoppa get sick too? Give them abraços de mim. :hug:

What have you been up to?

[Pachamama]

31. Pachababies are doing better....

Hey there! (and your welcome :))

The Pachafamily is doing better....the Pachababies are no longer running fevers and are showing signs of improvement, but we are all still coughing up the yuck and having really stuffy/runny noses....this flu bug is the worst and longest holding I've ever experienced! Pachapapa was luckier than the rest of us....he had signs of the flu bug, but never seems to have been as badly affected as us....good for him since he works and it provided me with some relief on the weekends where we were all home sick and he could care for us.

I was up in Seattle this weekend visiting some friends, but primarily there to check on a property we own that we are going to put up for sale soon. As you know, the Pachafamily is "consolidating" some of our assets and moving some money out of the country etc. in preparation for the pending Busheconomic downfall that we see disastrously looming on horizon...Like a storm on the horizon, we are preparing and batting down the hatches...

[Swamp Rat]

32. Great! You guys are very very smart!

When you move, I hope you'll keep in touch. I'll stay here and fight for America as long as I can, but will probably head to Europe via Brasil after I finish the two degrees I'm working on (I decided to do another masters while finishing the current PhD). I figure the EU and South America will gladly accept a youthful and lettered egghead. Speaking other languages really helps too.

Maybe we'll all sail somewhere... keeping options open. ;)

[Pachamama]

33. Scalawags....

Yes, Swamp Rodent, sailing will always be an option I keep open...

Ugh, I can't believe I'm still up...I'm going to bed now...just spent the last few hours catching up on bills and on news on the internet and DU....

PS: Your right - the EU and South America would love you :hug: And like you, I'm so glad I speak other languages too...makes it interesting doesn't it to go online to other countries and read their news and what they are saying about the US and ofcourse news we aren't even getting...

Economically, I think this country is going to be so screwed in the next 6-9 months....most people won't know what hit them...the thing that is so terrible is that the rich won't care (they are all preparing), the poor will be devasted as will the middle class idiots who all voted for Bush and won't be able to figure things out and how it happened....

[Swamp Rat]

34. Boa noite

:hug: :boring:

[Pachamama]

35. Guten Nacht....

Schlaf Gut, Traume Suess.... :hug: :boring:

[Lexingtonian]

27. translate as: "Jews"

It's sadly useful way of translating from Conservatese, to assume that 'liberal' and 'Jewish' are interchangeable terms.

In the U.S. a lot of conservatives aren't actually aware of this- but until FDR and Nelson Rockefeller made it acceptable and superior, few rich Gentiles were social liberals. Around 1960, up to 1968, the most educated people became social liberals and the upper middle class became socially liberal. That's the 'vanishing' of the Rockefeller Republicans- they became independents and Democrats.

(When dealing with neocons, translate 'liberal' as 'people unlike us frauds'.)

[flobee1kenobi]

36. Another poor lib

Out of work
savings quickly shrinking
haven't had healthcare for 5 years

these pollsters are talking to the wrong people

[American Tragedy]

37. Well, I don't know how many rich people are likely to honestly respond

since according to some posters, everybody who makes a certain amount of money is "evil".

[Warren DeMontague]

38. If by "richer", you mean "smarter", then yes. nt

[mainer]

39. Look at it regionally -- red states are more likely to be poorer

Blue states are more likely to have higher incomes. And cities (where people make more money) tend to be blue.

The most liberal bastions of the country are New York City, Connecticut, and northern California. The most conservative areas are the deep South. Now, which areas have higher incomes?

In my wealthy little enclave up here, we went way for Kerry. Most of my friends are upper income range, and they're almost all Democrats.