Gannongate wrinkles - Part 4 (Continued)

[Catherine Vincent]

Okay, starting a new thread to discuss the Gannon/Guckert/Gosch connection.

I would like to continue to discuss this. Here are the previous 3 threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3144209

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3155132

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3161296

[kittenpants]

1. woo-hoo! wrinkles four!!! n/t

[EVDebs]

2. cat girl25 This sounds like "The Finders" with touches of the

Michael Aquino SF Presidio satanism scandal thrown in for good measure. Aquino was (is ?) military intelligence and an officer (Lt. Col. if memory serves me correctly). Temple of Set and all around weird behavior. The Finders thing is just too weird with intell connections to child molestation.

But hey, if you want people to go off on 'conspiracy' stuff and keep them scared (along with the people who are in on whatever the intell purpose was in the first place) this oddly enough would be logical.

If propaganda was Gannon/Guckerts' purpose, you would WANT to discredit him ASAP and keep the breadcrumbs out of the WH.

[Catherine Vincent]

28. So are you saying Gannon wasn't a WH plant?

Or that Gannon works for CIA? You'll have to spell it out for me.

[EVDebs]

32. ? It's the same thing

If Operation Mockingbird plant, that's the same thing as a WH plant. He's be just a CIA employee rather than covered by GOPUSA. If he's active military under sigint psyops (see 'CNN and PsyOps' by counterpunch's Alexander Cockburn) then he's using the GOPUSA cover, again, to hide payment of the source money.

Who funds outfits like GOPUSA...and don't tell me it's just 'rich guys'. What is the non-profit status of GOPUSA if it is non-profit...and how'd it get that status ?

No...more likely Operation Mockingbird or DoD's slush (see CBS New's article "War on Waste" with Rummy's quote of missing $2.3 TRILLION). It could also be corruption as the tribal gaming business's origins are with the CIA's Cabazon Indian tribe.

[Catherine Vincent]

33. You seem to read and know a lot about this Operation Mockingbird

and the military PsyOps group. You should contact liberal blogs to get them into digging into this stuff....if they can. And thanks for spelling it out to me regarding Gannon using GOPUSA as his cover.

[EVDebs]

36. Just google it catgirl

www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_louise_01_03_03_mockingbird.html

www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MOCK/mockingbird.html

and you'll find these two just for starters. Also, merge it with the Church and Pike investigations from the '70s and you'll get a better historical perspective. This didn't start a day or two ago, it's been going on since the end of WWII.

[Swamp Rat]

3. hee hee!

[Catherine Vincent]

4. Spongebob Square Pants!

Let's go for a ride. Wheeeeeeeeee!!!!

[merh]

22. Is some image supposed to be here?

:shrug:

[Catherine Vincent]

27. Yes, this one.

[Catherine Vincent]

67. Oops, it says bandwidth exceeded.

SwampRat, if there is a way to scale down the pic, that would be nice. We need to keep posting that important pic!:-)

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherine Vincent]

5. Will anyone know if someone will get back to us if

they hear from Noreen Gosch? Andy was working on it but he's got other things on his mind right now.

[flyarm]

6. andy talked to her and got a very interesting response.

when he is well i am sure he will do follow up.
right now he has more pressing things to deal with.
and i wish him well..everyting else takes second seat right now.

fly

[Catherine Vincent]

8. He did? Thanks for letting us know.

Will wait for Andy when he gets better. Did you read this thread from Andy?-------->http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3196331

[dmr]

7. Thanks for starting this thread

and listing the other three. Now I can catch up.

My computer died last week, and I just got back online tonight with a new hard drive (yea!). So, I truly do appreciate this. Now, I have to find out who Noreen is, which was mentioned upthread ...

:)

[flyarm]

9. PLEASE READ THE FIRST AND SECOND THREAD

IT IS NESSESARY TO UNDERSTAND..AND LOOK AT THE FRANKLIN CASE


http://www.johnnygosch.com/noreen.html

NOTICE THIS SECTION.. this was my son's school..john walsh was friends with SGT. HILL in our police dept. who started the program when children were disappearing from kansas city at the time...although the name is spelled wrong in this article..it was LEAWOOD KANSAS
and this was done when a little girl in my sons school was almost kidnapped but got away and was rescued by the school janitor.we were the second school in the nation to fingerprint our children.

snip:
One of the greatest accomplishments is to see the second "NATIONAL CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN" being founded in Lee Wood, Kansas by Sgt. Craig Hill, who will be the director; the opening is scheduled for the Spring of this year. This is an example of the progress, which has been made over the past fifteen years.




from fly,

since my son is now grown and out of college, may i also suggest a wonderful tool for those with little children i learned a long time ago...from a k.c. detective...have a secret word with your child ..pick something they can not forget, but not something so common it is used in everyday speech...and tell them they are never to go with anyone, no matter what is said to them, and no matter who..unless that person says that secret word to them..and if anyone tells them mommy is hurt or that mommy sent them to pick them up..if they dont say the magic word immediately to start screaming and running...practice it with your kids..practice them screaming and running...

my sons secret word was peanut butter...because my son hated it , my husband hated it , and i hated it..we never had it in our home..so we never discussed peanut butter!! unless we were practicing ....

fly

[flyarm]

11. ohh something else...

i think this is important, and what John Walsh taught this young mom ( me) of a elementary child..

one of the smallest words in the english language is usually the hardest words for adults to say out loud..and that word is "no"

and two of the worst places for children to be left off and alone , are shopping centers, and movie theaters!!
my son went to neither without me being there until he left for college!

i used no alot!

thank you john walsh for allowing me that word!!!

fly

[dmr]

20. My son is a teenager now, but

we still have a secret word, though he thinks he is too old for one, and can take care of himself.

Sadly we have to teach our children to be aware of their surroundings just to keep them safe. We had a DUer here back in DU's early days that once worked in military intelligence. This DUer told us to be aware of vans that hang around neighborhoods, particularily white vans (why white, I don't know).

[Catherine Vincent]

29. That's very good advice, Fly.

I will pass that on to my sisters who have young kids.

[mordarlar]

109. We use a secret word too. Also i taught them not to yell help or stop...

people tend to avoid interfering when a child shouts these two words. Sad but true. I taught them to shout FIRE!! This gets peoples attention. And then they should yell YOU ARE NOT MY MOM/DAD.

We role play also. They get a kick out of it. :)

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. Noreen is Johnny Gosch's mother and Johnny Gosch is

one of the paper boys who was kidnapped in Iowa. He worked for the Des Moines Register and a man named JAMES GANNON was the editor of the Des Moines register at the time of the kidnapping. :hi:

[dmr]

18. Thanks you

After I made my post above, I took a second look at the name, Gosch, and knew the name immediately. When DU was brand spanking new in 2001, we had many, many discussions about this, about Poppy Bush and pedophilia. It was very hard on me. I remember one Sunday afternoon back then sitting at my computer just sobbing my heart out.

I sure wish the "Dirt Forum" and its threads were available because I think the discussions and research done then would be interesting to read today.

I know there are people out there who dismiss this discussion as just another conspiracy, but there is always truth to be found in any conspiracy.

[flyarm]

97. description of johnny gosch kidnapping

this is a must read but in pdf!!

http://www.johnnygosch.com/chap.pdf

[radfringe]

10. Model#Bs-2005 Payola-Pundit-O-Matic (new toons)

Model#Bs-2005 Payola-Pundit-O-Matic http://radfringe.tripod.com/

Social Insecurity http://radfringe.tripod.com/id1.html
or click on Bush Mis-Adminstration menu link on front page

[georgia10]

26. that's so great!

Can I put the Pundit-o-matic on our site? With proper linkage to you, of course?

[radfringe]

38. PM ME WITH YOUR E-MAIL

and I'll send the file

[georgia10]

45. DU won't let me PM

It says I don't have enough posts to use this feature...

grrrrr...

Well, I'll just copy the image and upload it off your server and give you the credit. If there is any problem with that, just let me know. :)

[radfringe]

112. no problem

a direct link to the 'toon' isn't allowed, so you'll have to do a copy/paste to get the file

or e-mail me at [e-mail] with your e-mail address -- I'll send it

meanwhile.. the http for the site is http://radfringe.tripod.com/

[intheflow]

12. Omaha Herald connections

Recap from Gannongate wrinkles

Thread 2: Peter Citron from Omaha World Herald convicted of pedophilia in Franklin, also implicated OWH publisher Harold Anderson . Next few posts connect OWH as parent company of ES&S
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3155132#3155763

Thread 3: Someone named Larry King now Executive Editor of Omaha World Herald. Subsequent posts reaffirm and give more info about ES&S.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3161296#3161478

My contribution:

I started thinking this propaganda scandal was probably linked to the election. I mean, one camp is working on Propagannon, another is working on Mitofsky and the exit polls. But we seem to have forgotten that Mitofsky was hired by the National Election Pool, a consortium of MSM (ABC, AP, CBS, CNN, FOX News, NBC News http://www.exit-poll.net/).

This is what I found:

COULD THE AP RIG THE ELECTION?
Could the Associated Press (AP) Rig the Election? (Check updates at bottom)
by Lynn Landes 10/22/04
http://www.ecotalk.org/AP.htm

The Associated Press (AP) will be the sole source of raw vote totals for the major news broadcasters on Election Night. However, AP spokesmen Jack Stokes and John Jones refused to explain to this journalist how the AP will receive that information. They refused to confirm or deny that the AP will receive direct feed from voting machines and central vote tabulating computers across the country. But, circumstantial evidence suggests that is exactly what will happen.

(snip)

ES&S, the nation's largest voting machine company that will reportedly count 50% of all votes, describe on their webpage how "accessible" their results are, "At ES&S, we know election administrators and the public want fast and accurate election results. That is why we have developed several election management system software solutions to make the reporting process easier, more reliable, and more accessible.”

(snip)

In Online Journal, Stephen Crockett and Al Lawrence, the hosts of Democratic Talk Radio, wrote, "...the Associated Press ran a story that was widely published in newspapers and on the Internet, headlined "Bush Leads Kerry In Electoral Votes," that could have been written by the Bush campaign. The assignment of states to candidates, the headline and the conclusions were all simply wrong. The Associated Press should print a retraction and work to see that it is widely published."

And on WBAY TV in Green Bay, Wisconsin ran an AP article reporting that Bush has won the election, weeks before the election is to take place. The AP reported, "At this hour, President Bush has won re-election as president by a 47 percent to 43 percent margin in the popular vote nationwide. Ralph Nader has 1 percent of the vote nationwide. That's with 51 percent of the precincts reporting." According to reports, the AP is now saying the article was a "test article," a never-heard-before journalistic practice.

(snip)

Associated Press Managing Editors (APME) vice president, Deanna Sands, is managing editor of the ultra conservative Omaha World Herald newspaper, whose parent company owns the largest voting machine company in the nation, Election Systems and Software (ES&S).

(snip)

HOW A PRIVATE COMPANY COUNTS OUR VOTES ON ELECTION NIGHT
November 4, 2004
By Christopher Bollyn (from Chicago), American Free Press
http://www.ecotalk.org/APvotes.htm

(snip)

Scott Burnham, spokesman for the county clerk, had informed me that the vote count is open to the public and that press credentials would not be required. Shortly after arriving, I ran into Burnham and David Orr, the county clerk, in the hallway. Although I had arrived just shortly before the polls closed at 7 p.m., I was the only member of the public or the press around except for a couple Associated Press (AP) reporters in the far corner of the room. They were busy setting up their laptop to the ES&S computer in the backroom, which provided them with direct feed of the results...

While the results were coming in, the AP reporter read a novel while her laptop did the communicating. When I went to talk to the AP reporter, Burnham quickly appeared and told me to leave.

"You should talk to AP," he said.

"She is AP," I replied.

"She just works for AP," he said.

Clearly the subject of AP having direct data feed from the mainframe computer was something Burnham did not want me to discuss. Dane Placko, a local reporter for the Fox News network, told AFP that "Fox gets direct feed."

(snip)

******************************************************

This discussion has been amazing. I just found it tonight, have been reading it on my dialup for over 6 hours now! Some freaky stuff. I don’t know about all of it, but the eerie conections are… eerie. Pedophilia and hiring a polling firm that won't release its raw data to Congress? WH prostitution and a kidnapping in 1983? Hunter Thompson and Paul Wellstone? I tell ya, my head is spinning!

Thank you so much, Mods and Andy and Faye and everyone. This is fascinating stuff. Sick, but intriguing.


**edited for clarity.

[psychopomp]

17. Fascinating

Props to the diggers!

[coffeenap]

19. Wow, I know Scott Burnham--hmmm.

[Roland99]

30. Whoa...quite the implications there, eh??

[lies and propaganda]

13. i am currently reading "The Franklin Cover Up"

by once repug senator John Decamp, who overall seems to be a good guy and I do believe what he is saying.

There is a very sick underlying current of sadism and murder of the innocents in this country. And the way everything ties together is repulsive. Jeff Gannon, Johnny Gosch, Bohemian Grove, Franklin Credit Union, MK Ultra, the Plame outing, 'Rathergate', ESS owns the Omaha World Herald super conservo paper that one Larry King is the editor of.

It could go on forever, one vicious, sickening circle.

[cthrumatrix]

21. a story the press will NEVER cover

[Blue Gardener]

14. Yeah! My favorite thread!

I'll be bookmarking so I can check back in after I get home from work.

[elehhhhna]

16. Fascinating. Where's Palast lately?

[Andy_Stephenson]

23. Checking in with a kick

don't ask me anything right now...I am busy lining ducks up into a row.

Andy

[Catherine Vincent]

24. Thanks.

:thumbsup:

[merh]

94. Can I ask you how you are feeling?

I hope you are doing okay. I was glad to read your post about your latest visit with the doc. I am still praying for you and sending out positive energy to you! :hug: :loveya:

Now go back to lining up those ducks, no slacking off! (but do get the rest you need) :hug:

[understandinglife]

25. "Crazy, yes. But crazy enough to be true?"

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/02/crazy-yes-but-crazy-enough-to-be-true.html#comments

Its being referenced by others.

Also, for those who are interested in a "Rev Moon" connection for Gannon/Guckert/?Gosch, the latest Raw Story lists some organizations that it might be worthwhile seeing if they intersect with jeff/jim/johnny:

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=138

Peace.


BE THE BU$H OPPOSITION;24/7

[starroute]

64. I don't think there's likely to be a direct connection to Gary Jarmin

Back last fall, when there were a bunch of threads here looking into direct-mail fundraising scams, I searched really hard for a connection between Bruce Eberle and Gary Jarmin and I couldn't find one. The closest I came was one person, Amy Paul, whose current firm's website indicates she previously worked for both Eberle and Response Dynamics (which handled Jarmin's and NCPPR's fundraising.)

The conclusion I've come to is that there are two main lineages of right-wing sleazeballs. One largely goes back to the College Republican National Committee in the Nixon era and includes people like Karl Rove. It has close ties to the Republican Party and its hallmark is Nixonian dirty tricks. That's the group Gannon/Guckert and GOPUSA seem to be associated with.

The other lineage goes back to Young Americans for Freedom in the same period. It is far more strongly of the New Right, tends to be suspicious of the Republican Party and anything suggestive of the traditional power elite, and its hallmark is direct-mail fundraising scams. Almost anyone connected with either Richard Viguerie or Reverend Moon is of this second group.

The division isn't absolute -- Morton Blackwell and Bruce Eberle both worked for Viguerie in the 1970's, though their primary ties ever since have been with the Republican Party. However, it seems to hold true as a general rule. And it means that any direct Gannon-Jarmin connection is very unlikely.

[understandinglife]

90. I respect your expertise. Thank you for sharing those details.

The connection I'm interested in would follow a path through the....

American Freedom Coalition (Moon/Unification Church front) http://www.pir.org/gw/afc.txt ~ Alan Gottlieb, Robert Grant, Lynn Francis Bouchey, L. Brent Bozell, III, Thomas F. Ellis, Lt. General Daniel O. Graham, Gary Jarmin, Dr. Mildred Faye Jefferson , Dr. W. Cleon Skousen, Major General John K. Singlaub, Steven A. F. Trevino, Richard Viguerie

....to the leadership of the Council for National Policy (CNP) and their mechanisms for ensuring 'loyalty' -- you know they've got something more than a 'secret handshake' to keep that many egos corraled.

What I hope we will begin to see unravel, as verifying the Gannon/Guckert-to-Gosch connection may catalyze, is the exposition of what I'll call the CNP 'enforcer' group -- those who've collected the dirt and have the dirt strategically placed so that if any of the political or media 'tools' of the CNP try to go sideways, they get buried.

I suspect that Jeff/Jim/?Johnny is one of the 'enforcers'; and that comment of his about 'loose cannon' may have been a not so subtle warning that silencing him might truly result in a 'catastrophic success.'

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=101

Peace.

BE THE BU$H OPPOSITION;24/7

[starroute]

104. I have found some connections in Frontiers of Freedom

That's the anti-environmental group whose vice president for policy, Kerri Houston, is on the GOPUSA board.

Lynn Francis Bouchey is an adjunct fellow of Frontiers of Freedom. Its founder, Malcolm Wallop, was a member of the heavily Moon-related Council for Inter-American Security when Bouchey was leading it in the 80's and is a fellow of the Heritage Foundation's Asian Studies Center, which was created with indirect Moon founding. And someone else there -- I think one of their global-warming-is-a-myth scientists -- has Moon connections as well.

But I've pushed that line of investigation really hard, and I can't find any closer connection to GOPUSA that through that one shared member. All the Frontiers of Freedom connections I do find point towards the United Seniors Association business instead. There's a whole complex of organizations that are anti-social security and anti-environmental regulation, and are generally heavily funded by the energy and tobacco industries, and those do tie in to some of the people you name -- particularly Viguerie and Bozell (and some of Bozell's associates like Greg Mueller and J. Curtis Herge.)

GOPUSA and Gannon and Bruce Eberle just don't point in that same direction. All their ties are either with the Republican Party or with various Freeper types.

[sarahlee]

31. Help needed to keep updating ....

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Category:Propaganda

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Category:Scandals:Miscellaneous_Republican

[libertypirate]

34. Anyone find a Haliburton link...

I did find this

on the conservativeguy website, on the heroes page.

VIETNAM VETERANS - first link

BILLY JOE
http://www.billyjoe.net/
He was employee of a Haliburton company...
"Taylor Diving and Salvage" is owned by "Subsea 7" owned by Haliburton

Old friend maybe..

Mr. Gannon's first hero?

[Minstrel Boy]

35. "The going got weird" - new story on my blog.

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/03/going-got-weird.html

And look at this quote from a Hunter S Thompson column, dated Nov 20, 2000, called "Prepare for the Weirdness":

We have seen Weird Times in this country before, but the year 2000 is beginning to look super weird. This time, there really is nobody flying the plane. ... We are living in dangerously weird times now. Smart people just shrug and admit they're dazed and confused.

The only ones left with any confidence at all are the New Dumb. It is the beginning of the end of our world as we knew it. Doom is the operative ethic.

The Autumn months are never a calm time in America. Back to Work, Back to School, Back to Football Practice, etc. ... Autumn is a very Traditional period, a time of strong Rituals and the celebrating of strange annual holidays like Halloween and Satanism and the fateful Harvest Moon, which can have ominous implications for some people.

Autumn is always a time of Fear and Greed and Hoarding for the winter coming on. Debt collectors are active on old people and fleece the weak and helpless. They want to lay in enough cash to weather the known horrors of January and February. There is always a rash of kidnapping and abductions of school children in the football months. Pre-teens of both sexes are traditionally seized and grabbed off the streets by gangs of organized Perverts.

(Gosch was abducted Sept 5, 1982.)

What should we make of Thompson alluding to the organized abduction of children in a piece describing the dawning of the "dangerously weird" Bush/Cheney era?

[Blue Gardener]

39. So many connections

Certainly not everything is a coincidence.

[understandinglife]

41. Way beyond 'coincidence,' in_deed. As each day passes, ....

....one thing, for me, becomes ever more in focus:

We've not had a single friend, family member, classmate, co-worker, ......, whatever, of Gannon/Guckert emerge and talk.

Apart from the potential 'Gosch connection' (which seems quite real), we do not know whom this person is.

That leaves one to speculate, and many have.

My first choice is that he is indeed Gosch. He is the product of ~ 23 years of manipulation. He may well 'remember' who he was the day he was abducted. He may well 'remember' all that has happened to him.

He may well have survived because he was smarter than his captors. In fact, he may well be surviving now because of just how smart he is (along with the help of a bunch of bloggers who are keeping him 'in the news').

Perhaps he is so smart that he is now not 'the victim' -- he is truly in charge of his fate. He may have been in charge of that fate for several years. He may have sufficient information, ready to be released, on a large enough number of the 'rich and powerful' that they can't touch him. (I've also been waiting for some connection to emerge between him and Rev Moon.)

Learning who controls whom in this little saga may be one of the biggest surprises ever.

p.s. I'll wager a $50.00 donation to DU, to the first DUer who takes it, that when Jeff/Jim/?Johnny/?? does let it all hang out ;) we'll learn that Rove was among those who did what Jeff/Jim demanded, not the other way around.

Peace.


BE THE BU$H OPPOSITION;24/7

[Catherine Vincent]

76. Interesting thoughts.

edited to add:

That bit about Rove taking orders from Gannon is very interesting. I mean, how could someone like Gannon ask questions of the president? And remember what he told Campbell Brown? " They allowed me to come. If the WH was going to use a plant, wouldn't they have used a better one than me?"

[understandinglife]

89. Precisely!! ‘I asked to come. They allowed me to come’

He's essentially shouting -- I'm the one in-charge here.

Even the Today show picked up on that quote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7022981/

I do hope someone takes that wager ;)

Suspect we'll all know much more about Jeff/Jim/?Johnny's 'heritage' soon.

Peace.


BE THE BU$H OPPOSITION;24/7

[flyarm]

100. gannon has balls of steal..he is scared but he is trying to out

this i think...he is doing the exposing ...begging for a media to pick it up and investigate..but the media is laying like dead dogs..
gannon is doing his damnest to challege someone to out this story, i really believe he is trying to use those in white house to take themselves down..he has so set the stage...

too bad we dont have msm anymore..i think gannon was counting on msm for that
of course i have no way to prove that..its just a gut feeling after reading all this stuff for so long..and now how he has come out......
he is daring the media to do their job...they just wont
fly

[Catherine Vincent]

106. I also get the feeling that Gannon isn't really the conservative he

claim to be. He knows that he has to be a blatantly partisan repuke to get attention. And attention he got. Remember THE question?

[Andy_Stephenson]

155. No they won't

It is a story they are afraid of touching. Why? Perhaps some are complicit?

[Andy_Stephenson]

91. I'll take that wager.

But I believe the dasme way you do that...

"we'll learn that Rove was among those who did what Jeff/Jim demanded, not the other way around."

[understandinglife]

101. Very cool, Andy!! Given that you've taken the wager....

....and what we have discussed, I'll make that donation to DU no matter how it goes down!

Cheers!


BE THE BU$H OPPOSITION;24/7

[seemslikeadream]

40. Things are going to slide ...

The Future

Give me back my broken night
my mirrored room, my secret life
it's lonely here,
there's no one left to torture
Give me absolute control
over every living soul
And lie beside me, baby,
that's an order!
Give me crack and anal sex
Take the only tree that's left
and stuff it up the hole
in your culture
Give me back the Berlin wall
give me Stalin and St Paul
I've seen the future, brother:
it is murder.

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
has crossed the threshold
and it has overturned
the order of the soul
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant
When they said REPENT REPENT
I wonder what they meant

You don't know me from the wind
you never will, you never did
I'm the little jew
who wrote the Bible
I've seen the nations rise and fall
I've heard their stories, heard them all
but love's the only engine of survival
Your servant here, he has been told
to say it clear, to say it cold:
It's over, it ain't going
any further
And now the wheels of heaven stop
you feel the devil's riding crop
Get ready for the future:
it is murder

Things are going to slide ...

There'll be the breaking of the ancient
western code
Your private life will suddenly explode
There'll be phantoms
There'll be fires on the road
and the white man dancing
You'll see a woman
hanging upside down
her features covered by her fallen gown
and all the lousy little poets
coming round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson
and the white man dancin'

Give me back the Berlin wall
Give me Stalin and St Paul
Give me Christ
or give me Hiroshima
Destroy another fetus now
We don't like children anyhow
I've seen the future, baby:
it is murder

Things are going to slide ...

When they said REPENT REPENT ...

LEONARD COHEN

[The Magistrate]

81. An Excellent Song, Ma'am

One of my very favorites....

[ClayZ]

47. Suicide? Hunter S. Thompson... I don't think so!

"These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush? They are the same ones who wanted to have Muhammad Ali locked up for refusing to kill "gooks". They speak for all that is cruel and stupid and vicious in the American character. They are racists and hate mongers among us-they are the Ku Klux Klan. I piss down the throats of these Nazis. And I am too old to worry about whether they like it or not. Fuck them."Hunter S. Thompson

[TroubleMan]

57. I love that quote!!

nt.

[walldude]

211. I'm with you man, I can't wrap my mind around the thought

that HST would have killed himself.... Doesn't make sense.

[On the Road]

122. HST Piece?

I'm sorry, but the good doctor is not a reliable source in a quotation like this. While composing one of his rants, he threw out all kinds of misinformation and bizarre theories as if they were established fact. It's a hallmark of his style.

For example, in "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail," he reported the following with a straight face: While swimming at 6AM at a hotel in Miami, he saw George McGovern walk out on his balcony with a high-powered rifle and methodically start shooting sharks. The question is always "what part of this can possibly be true?"

[troubleinwinter]

37. What is the deal with FOX now?

Who are these panelists? I don't watch FOX, so don't know em.

From Americablog:


FOX News covers Gannon, and actually obliterates him. Hell freezes over. Chickens grow lips.
by John in DC - 3/1/2005 02:11:00 PM

Seriously. FOX's coverage rocked. And they did such a good job covering it that the wingnut at Accuracy in Media, the one who thinks prostitution is simply someone's "sex life," flipped out. I think, perhaps, we've developed the ultimate insult for the mainstream media over the entire l'affaire Gannon: FOX covered it better than you.


http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/03/fox-news-covers-gannon-and-actually.html

[New Earth]

42. FOX is obliterating Gannon?

hmm. trying to discredit him? they are probably going to start trying to make it look like he's a crazy nut in case he comes out and says he is Gosch :hi:

I am not fooled by FOX news. Nope.

[libertypirate]

108. They will try and lock the story early around...

points that move him away from Bush. The grey area cometh...

[libertypirate]

43. kick

[hiley]

44. I am so happy this thread

was started again cat..
As others find do, I too find the mystery so fascinating.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

46. We still don't know who this guy really is, do we. DOB, place of birth.

Schools attended. Family members. Friends/SOs. Jobs held prior to GOPUSA and hotmilitarystud.com.

I mean, where does the guy live in D.C.? Does he hang out anywhere or is he a complete self loathing loner?

[roseBudd]

48. My boss who is gay mentioned a Cincinnati connection...

He said he heard about a Cincinnati connection so I went to the library to search the old city directories.

I found a Louise Guckert (widow) of John in 1976 living at

3737 Bank Ct. in Cheviot Ohio (Hamilton County) Also in Cheviot a Norbert Gannon on Gamble Ave. in Cheviot (Cheviot is very small community, actually a neighborhood in Cincinnati.

3737 Bank Ct. is a 2 family, not owned by Guckert in 1976.

Also

Bedrock Enterprises Inc.
[phone]
4060 Simca Ln
Cincinnati, OH 45211

The librarian was very helpful and gave me 3 books on how to find anybody, including military.

he did a business owner search and got:

KARMAK INC
511 S Bolmar St
West Chester PA 19382-4934
Cobntact J D Guckert Manager
County Chester
Philadelphia, PA-NJ
810-918-3752

Lines of Business
Truck Bodies-Repairing
Automotive Body & Interior Repair

ad size regular

Year appeared 2000

Guckert had wepainttrucks.com

[Blue Gardener]

49. Link to Rosebud's thread in GD:Politics

In case some of you haven't been over there:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1630111&mesg_id=1630111

[roseBudd]

51. There is also a James Guckert living in Loveland Ohio a...

suburb of Cincinnati. Anything with a 513 area code is Cincinnati. And a William Guckert in 513.

Who has Lexis Nexis?

has Guckert ever been arrested?

[izzybeans]

118. from Lexus Nexus

Gannon: There were only 8 cases with the name Guckert, none of them seemed to match

Commonwealth v. Gannon, J.

3964 Philadelphia 1994 (J. S21013/1995)

SUPERIOR COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA

445 Pa. Super. 648; 665 A.2d 1299; 1995 Pa. Super. LEXIS 1795



June 13, 1995, Decided

OPINION: <*1>

AFFIRMED.

On edit:

And another:

Commonwealth v. Gannon, J.

No. 1989 Philadelphia 1098

Superior Court of Pennsylvania

403 Pa. Super. 634; 579 A.2d 417; 1990 Pa. Super. LEXIS 1723


June 26, 1990, Filed

OPINIONBY: <*1>

PER CURIAM

OPINION: AFFIRMED.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

50. That's some nice police work, boys!

[elehhhhna]

52. "Yeth it is!"

[babsbunny]

53. WOW!

YOU ALL ARE SO COOL! THIS IS BLOGGING?

[New Earth]

54. um, no - this is a message board.

:shrug:

[elehhhhna]

117. So out-cool us, smartypants. go ahead. try.

[roseBudd]

58. Karnak Inc of West Chester PA paints trucks

http://www.karmakinc.com/contactus/

Reference USA lists JD Guckert as a manager with a corporate location of 5-9 employeess

610-918-3752

and look at that bald headed guy below

[New Earth]

59. i don't remember the link

and you guys might have already mentioned this, but Gannon's AOL homepage lists some truck painting business that he worked for.

i think it was that 'wepaintrucks' site that someone mentioned a few threads above.

here it is: http://hometown.aol.com/jdg17/myhomepage/

also, please excuse me, i am just jumping in here and not reading the posts carefully today.....i'm feeling icky and i'm getting a cold :cry:

[roseBudd]

61. it was definitely wepainttrucks.com

[nonny]

65. we paint trucks?

http://www.wepainttrucks.com/

Sounds like a body shop for big trucks..........
But I don't get the website.
A portal for dating, pain, truck, Jewish singles, online banking, Texas holdem, and poker.

[roseBudd]

66. That is what happens to all web sites whose domain name ...

registrations expire. A company snatches them and puts search pages up.

[roseBudd]

70. wepainttrucks.com info from DailyKos...

December 19, 2002: last recorded edit of home page referring to underwear photo and job at "WePaintTrucks.com" (time stamps reported by FTP)

File: index.html 6 KB 12/19/2002 12:00:00 AM

[troubleinwinter]

84. Oh, Faye, honey,

don't pay it no nevermind at all. I just placed the divorce papers on the couch for when ol' hubby gets home. Won't that be a surprise!? So you go ahead and post stuff over the next few days when ya got a fever and I will forgive ya, and when I post way dippy shit, you'll forgive me!!!

Edit: Fergot to tell ya- 35 years. I may be pretty dippy!

[understandinglife]

60. Did you call and ask about the 'bald headed guy'? I can imagine....

....that soon they will be receiving all kinds of calls.

Very interesting.

Peace.


TBO;24/7

[roseBudd]

62. We need a West Chester PA DUer to pay a visit to Karmak Inc...

perferably a female with feminine wiles....

[understandinglife]

63. Yes, or...

...contact Larisa and John at Raw Story and John at Americablog and give'um the 'heads up' (and, its bald ;) ).

Peace. And, again, great find!

[Blue Gardener]

115. And if the female doesn't work

Send a hot military stud.

[nonny]

68. Reference USA -- Current listing for Guckert????

"Reference USA lists JD Guckert as a manager with a corporate location of 5-9 employees"

Manager of Karmak??
Is this an up-to-date listing?
How could he manage a truck painting business AND be a fake WH reporter at the same time?

Are there 2 James D. Guckerts?

[New Earth]

69. i'm sure there are plenty of them.

It's not the most uncommon sounding name in the world.

[Andy_Stephenson]

74. Sure it is...remember on Cooper's show...

he said he changed it to Gannon since it was hard to pronounce.

[nonny]

75. JD Guckert --- another West Chester connection

He graduated from West Chester University in 1980.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=175x3641

Kire -- an alum registered at the website and found this info.
That would make him 47.
Also, this guy graduated in 1980 --- 2 years before Johnny Gosch was abducted. Chances are that this JD Guckert (graduate) is the same truck painting JD Guckert in West Chester PA

If Reference USA database lists his business as current --- then there may be 2 Guckerts.

[merh]

96. Is there an obit for a Guckert or Gannon?

Not uncommon to borrow the deads identities.

Let's not forget how witness protection works.

[EC]

102. Yeah, we've gone through that, someone here ordered

yearbook pictures, He could have gone to a reunion to establish a new personality. Rather he looked for someone he could pass as, went to the reunion, and since he looked close enough no one questioned it...It seems very convenient that one of his alumnus saw him in the White House on C-Span and wrote about it in a frat newsletter (which I posted on first thread I think). I saw pictures on the frat site (before it went down), ID'd as Guckert, only he had a really long jaw,(I mean a Jay Leno jaw), bald and looked 47...I think he's the real Guckert and this one just assumed the identity. Gannon/Guckert still has baby fat on his face and neck, he does not look in his late 40's too me.

[roseBudd]

119. It was a business listing from 2000

nd the Karmik Inc. web site which probably has not been updated since created has a pic of it's employees and one is bald. Find out who created the web site and they may have the original pic before it was resized and saved as a low quality jpg.

[burn the bush]

136. perhaps he just stole guckerts identity

[zann725]

158. Maybe the truck business is like Bush's "lumber co." --that Kerry referred

to in debates. Strictly a tax write-off.

OR perhaps Gannon TRULY runs a truck painting company...from afar? If so, could his employees be re-painting military trucks?? ...as in "painted" to cover-up the truck's military I.D...then re-sold on the open market for a profit? With all the scamming of the military budget that Haliburton does...I would not be surprised to find someone "tight" with the Admin. re-painting and re-selling costly used Hummer trucks for profit. Just a thought...

[zann725]

159. Maybe the truck business is like Bush's "lumber co." --that Kerry referred

to in debates. Strictly a tax write-off.

OR perhaps Gannon TRULY runs a truck painting company...from afar? If so, could his employees be re-painting military trucks?? ...as in "painted" to cover-up the truck's military I.D...then re-sold on the open market for a profit? With all the scamming of the military budget that Haliburton does...I would not be surprised to find someone "tight" with the Admin. re-painting and re-selling costly used Hummer trucks for profit. Just a thought...

[Catherine Vincent]

88. Whaaa...? On the GOPUSA or Talon bio of Gannon he said that

he used to paint trucks.:wow:

[roseBudd]

120. it was his aol home page n/t

[EC]

92. wepainttrucks.com is still up

it's more of a directory..has a bit of everything

[Catherine Vincent]

79. I can't picture Gannon a loner. I figure someone like that has lots of

friends and acquaintances. Going by his interviews on tv, but it could just be an act.

[CelticWinter]

55. The Gannon Cannon - Part 1-Bush Treason In Spy Whorehouse

A friend emailed me this today, I found it making me go hmmmmmm????
I didnt know where to post it, I felt this was as good a place as any.


The Gannon Cannon - Part 1
Bush Treason In Spy Whorehouse

http://rense.com/general63/gad.htm

<snip>
There was in Iowa a very clever fellow named Johnny Gosch. He was considered precocious. Now some would have compared him to Michael Riconoscuito, a boy genius. Michael was a wizard in spy craft, electronics, chemistry, and a lot more.

<snip>
Johnny Gosch was kidnapped in 1982. His mother Noreen apparently could not get the assistance of law enforcement. So she wrote a book and sent it here and there to alternative commentators such as myself.

<snip>

George Herbert Walker Bush, a concealed pedophile, was instrumental in running a teen-ager prostitution ring, Omaha, Nebraska, Chicago, District of Columbia. Early on not mentioning the Elder Bush by name, was a privately printed book on the subject, "The Franklin Cover-Up", by John DeCamp, a Nebraska State Senator. The forward to the book mentions a colleague of DeCamp, former (and now late) Director of Central Intelligence William Colby. DeCamp says he participated with Colby in Viet Nam, in "pacifying" the Viet Cong and others, through the Phoenix Assassination Program.

<more>

[New Earth]

56. thanks for that

it is kinda WAY all over the place, but sounds pretty close to what we have found in these past few threads.

[starroute]

71. Sherman Skolnick is not a reliable source

For example, a few years ago he was pushing the claim that Monica Lewinsky was working for Mossad. He writes with a great deal of passion and sometimes sounds convincing, but I've never been able to find any objective evidence to back up his more outlandish claims.

So please do take whatever he says with a grain of salt.

[New Earth]

72. to be honest

i would rather stick to what we find here then what other people are writing about it. from what i remember, it all started here anyway....

[Andy_Stephenson]

73. Would you trust my word

on the subject?

[Donailin]

77. oh come on, Andy!

I trust your word. Otherwise I wouldn't have done the thing that I did. So what do you know? Don't leave us hanging. . .

[Andy_Stephenson]

78. All in due time....

there are meetings planned and information to be gathered...I am not the thrust of the story and cannot give up a confidence (I hope you understand) ...but this story is not going to go away in a whimper.

What I can say is that there are a couple of crack reporters on the story and are using information we have uncovered.

[Donailin]

82. I hope

one of the reporters isn't Wayne Madsen aka "Casalaro". He has a tendency to go out on limbs unprepared. Re: election rigger checks that were never cashed, not to mention the pope calling Bush the antichrist (not that I disagree with that)

(And don't forget, everything's gonna be OK)

[Andy_Stephenson]

83. No no not Madsen...

now Crusty the Clown...he has gravitas.

:)

[hootinholler]

111. ROTFLMFAO!

now Crusty the Clown...he has gravitas

Thanks Andy! I really needed a laugh. Take care of yerself dude, and call when you get back in my neighborhood.

-Hoot

[troubleinwinter]

86. Thank you... I didn't have to say it!

[Andy_Stephenson]

80. I need server space...anyone?

I have a picture to post.

[troubleinwinter]

85. PM to me and I can do it.

[JohnyCanuck]

87. How about GlobalFreePress.com

bpilgrim had a thread the other day inviting DUers to use http://images.globalfreepress.com to host images. See this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3194230

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nashville_brook]

99. can you post a little more of the Globe and Mail piece?

just a coupla paragraphs?

i'm intrigued by the HST angle.

[merh]

107. It's a very intriguing angle, isn't it.

(snip)

Now check out this February 25 Associated Press story about Thompson's death. Sounds a lot like a professional hit with a silencer:

"I was on the phone with him, he set the receiver down and he did it. I heard the clicking of the gun," Anita Thompson told the Aspen Daily News in Friday's editions.

She said her husband had asked her to come home from a health club so they could work on his weekly ESPN column...

Thompson said she heard a loud, muffled noise, but didn't know what had happened. "I was waiting for him to get back on the phone," she said.

(Her account to Rocky Mountain News reporter Jeff Kass is slightly different: "I did not hear any bang," she told Kass. She added that Thompson's son, who was in the house at the time, believed that a book had fallen when he heard the shot, according to Kass' report.)

http://www.libertythink.com/

[lovuian]

113. Yes I have seen on a blog that Thompson had connections

with Gannon 9/11 and Franklin!!!

[Ferry Fey]

152. Verification of Hunter S. Thompson Bohemian Grove accusation?

Is there any corroboration other than the mention in the De Camp book as to whether the "Hunter Thompson" mentioned by Paul Bonacci as filming abuse at Bohemian Grove was the writer Hunter S. Thompson? If so, where?

Andy, glad to see you feeling well enough to pop in here. You were one of the voices here who seemed to be most focussed and perceptive.

[Catherine Vincent]

154. Welcome.

Andy is the one that started this Gannongate wrinkle. We're all just continuing the conversation.

[FogerRox]

217. Others at the Grove--Might have been --Mama Cass--Brian wilson

Charles MAnson--that grove right-- LOL

[merh]

125. I was curious about that link too, I guess that poster was not

friendly on another thread? :shrug: Did you keep that link by chance?

[flyarm]

126. hst ????

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Number=292808407


NASA MOONS DUMBED DOWN USA


http://us.geocities.com/nasa_moons_usa/

"In other testimony, Bonacci said that Larry King was smiling and laughing the whole time the film was being shown, and that 'the men with the hoods' were a Satanic group which planned to use the dead boy in some sort of ceremony . He also named the director of the snuff film, whom they had picked up in Las Vegas, as 'Hunter Thompson'."

—Senator John DeCamp (R-NE), attorney at law, US Army officer in Vietnam Wars and liason to assassinated US ambassador/CIA director Bill Colby, from his book The Franklin Coverup, page 105

******************************************************************

********see page 105 from John De camp book The Franklin Coverup


xxxxx warning extrememly graphic and nausiating, could be very distressing for you to read!! it should be!!

snips from book! this is very very graphic..please read with caution!!its very disturbing..please be careful..it made me very ill!! i am serious here!! testimony from bonacci

http://www.thelawparty.org/FranklinCoverup/FranklinBookGrove.htm


caveat:
as a warning..i am not saying its the same Hunter Thompson!@

fly

[lovuian]

156. Republicans in Houston denying they know Eberle

Eberle the delegate they sent
Sherry Sylvester, Spokeswoman for the Republican Party of Texas, Denied Knowing Jeff Gannon's Boss Monday, February 21, 2005


The Advocate was amazed when it found out, via a Houston Chronicle article, that the spokeswoman for the Republican Party of Texas, Sherry Sylvester, had denied any knowledge whatsoever of Bobby Eberle, owner of Talon News and ostensible employer of "reporter" Jeff Gannon.

According to the Houston Chronicle, Sylvester, when asked about Eberle, said, "I'm not going to comment because I don't know him, and nobody here does."

More ...

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/tech/news/3045613

[flyarm]

160. I CAN'T SAY THATS IMPOSSIBLE...

i was a delegate to dem convention and our delegation was large...i can not say i knew all the delegates, we had 220 from my state, and i can't say that our state dnc chair would have known all of us...
some were very known as they held state chairs of some sort..
so i don't find that out of line..except...eberle was supposed to be a heavy hitter with state politics and with connections to *
now because of <that> it does become odd! Now i knew the spokespeople and the people doing all the travel plans and all the co-ordination better than my state dnc chair..but i did get to know him well at the convention and breakfasts..
is it possible someone would not be known by the rnc state chair ..yes..depending on the size of state delegation..texas's is big..but pretty unlikely because of who eberle was and his ties to *

fly

[Spazito]

128. I did a search on the Globe and Mail site

and, unfortunately, the whole article is only available to those who pay for what they call Insider Edition Subscribers but this is what they do have available on that article:

Alexander Pope in a prose convertible
By PAUL WILLIAM ROBERTS


Saturday, February 26, 2005, Page F9

Hunter telephoned me on Feb. 19, the night before his death. He sounded scared. It wasn't always easy to understand what he said, particularly over the phone, he mumbled, yet when there was something he really wanted you to understand, you did. He'd been working on a story about the World Trade Center attacks and had stumbled across what he felt was hard evidence showing the towers had been brought down not by the airplanes that flew into them but by explosive charges set off in their foundations. Now he thought someone was out to stop him publishing it: "They're gonna make it look like suicide," he said. "I know how these bastards think . . ."

[seemslikeadream]

135. second paragraph

"That's how I imagine a tribute to Hunter S. Thompson should begin. He was indeed working on such a story, but it wasn't what killed him. He exercised his own option to do that. As he said to more than one person, 'I would feel real trapped in this life if I didn't know I could commit suicide at any time.'"

[Spazito]

138. Thanks! Having only that one paragraph available

on the Globe and Mail site sure left one with a different impression without the second paragraph to go with it.

[seemslikeadream]

141. Sure, here's a bit more

It is an ironic end for one who deplored above all things the media trend toward self-censorship, often citing Orwell on the subject. Now, he exists only in a dozen books and countless magazine and newspaper articles. Did the good doctor write himself into literary immortality? This is all that matters now.

I shared a dark suspicion that the life we were leading was a lost cause, that we were all actors, kidding ourselves along on a senseless odyssey. It was the tension between these two poles — a restless idealism on the one hand and a sense of impending doom on the other — that kept me going. — Paul Kemp, in The Rum Diary, 1959 (published 1998)

These words, from Mr. Thompson's only novel, written when he was 22, are more than a prescient epitaph. They contain his own assessment of the qualities of character required of a great writer. The Hells Angels, in his first published book, put it differently:

“Well, we don't ask for nothin' but the truth. Like I say, there's not much good that you can write about us, but I don't see where that gives people the right to just make up stuff. . . . Ain't the truth bad enough for 'em?” — Hells Angels, 1965

That tension between restless idealism and impending doom characterized the postwar generation in America, living in the shadow of nuclear apocalypse and the ignominy of the Vietnam War and Watergate, the assassinations of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr.. It was during this era that the American Dream of a true republic came unravelled and it was briefly possible to see through its glittering façade to where the corporate éminences grises pressed buttons and pulled strings. The sight profoundly disturbed both those who saw it and those caught, as it were, in the act. The latter vowed such a thing would never occur again. The former, mostly, tried to forget what they had seen. Hunter Stockton Thompson never forgot what he had seen. It informed everything, and his addiction to honesty in the telling of it is what will grant his work timeless relevance. That we even know of his other addictions is merely an example of that honesty.

[slaveplanet]

193. Paul Roberts Interview today

Confirms Hunter was working on Gannon / WH prostitution story

Alex Jones show replay at 10pm est....2.5 hr interview

[intheflow]

208. Will you please post the details after the show airs?

I don't have any idea who Alex Jones is, which means s/he's probably on cable or on Sirius radio or some other form of media not at my fingertips.

Thanks!

[Liberal In Texas]

218. You can listen through the website...

http://www.infowars.com/

[intheflow]

221. Thanks.

:hi:

[slaveplanet]

230. here

http://gcnlive.com/monday-friday.htm

stream 2 or 4...whichever sounds best

stream 3 is rense @ 10pm & 1am est

[Catherine Vincent]

95. I hope you post the pic tonight.

I'm waiting up for it. At least until I get sleepy.

[Andy_Stephenson]

98. prolly will have to

wait till tomorrow.

[flyarm]

103. the other day i heard on the only progressive radio we have

here in jeb land on wmnf an interview with hunter...they played it from jan 2003..i caught the show in progress...but they asked hunter if he disliked * or if * hated him..and hunter laughed and said no he did drugs with *...then in the rpocess of the interview i sat stunned..hesaid..now these were hunters words..that "they would probably take his head off" then he said they would probably suicide him..he said that is the new way they do murder now, then he said something like he didnt want to go further on that subject ...i came home annd wrote it in a post immediately so i wouldn't forget the exact words..of course now i can't remember the exact words, if i can find the post i will post it...but i was numb when i heard it.
it was jan 2003 hunter was just doing war protesting in ny..but what then would have made him say they probably would suicide him??

ok i found my post this is what i wrote after just hearing this audio on wmnf tampa http://www.wmnf.org/

this was on wed feb 23rd it was on a show 12-1pm..i cant figure out their archives..or i would post it..but this was a taped show with hunter!or a group of interviews..they cut it off right after hunter said on the tape that he would prob be suicided by the * group.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxwhat i wrote on other post feb 23rd.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3163601#3164625

he said at the end of a segment they were playing...

(this is not verbatum..its out of my memory of what i just heard..sorry i didnt have it taped so this is memory only!~!!!)

Hunter>>>>" i dont't hate bush i knew him at one time, i did drugs with him."

H>>>i won't be surprised if they take my head off , or suicide me

( he then said ) H>>>thats their new way of murder now ,

(i think he said) H >>> that way its clean and no one knows

(then he said ) H>>>>i have to restrain myself now of what i say.




fly

[flyarm]

105. ok i found hunters interview it was taken by wmnf from democracy now

feb 23rd..its in the end segment!

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/23/164218#transcript


Wednesday, February 23rd, 2005
Hunter S. Thompson (1937-2005) on the Iraq War & the Bush Presidency

you can hear it on : Listen to Segment

listen carefully because he mumbles through it!!


fly

[Blue Gardener]

116. Wow!

So he knew it was coming?

[flyarm]

123. NO..I AM NOT SAYING THAT...

i am simply posting what hunter said...in his words..he knew what the * cabal motus operandi was..he knew they get rid of their enemys and those who had damaging info on them..
what is telling about this is the fact that hunter said..he was going to restrain himself from going further into a discussion about it..i nor anyone can say how hunter died, i was not there and i did not investigate it..only those who were there( his family) and the people who were the experts that were called in after his death could make claims to how hunter died.
i just found it quite stunning to hear this right after his death by suicide.
fly

[izzybeans]

121. There is so much info here I'm not sure anyone has posted this:

It apparently had some connection to the Eberle case and they hoped to link it to Gosch.



Copyright 1984 The Omaha World-Herald Company
Omaha World Herald (Nebraska)

January 12, 1984, Thursday METRO EDITION

SECTION: NEWS;

LENGTH: 1901 words

HEADLINE: Airman, 20, Arrested At Offutt; He Arrived In the Area Last July

BYLINE: Fred Thomas, James Ivey Nick Schinker Howard Silber Paul Goodsell John Taylor

BODY:


A 20-year-old Air Force enlisted man who moved to the Omaha area
last July was being held without bail Thursday in connection with the
slayings of two Sarpy County boys.

Facing arraignment Thursday afternoon was Airman John Joseph
Joubert. Officers involved in the homicide investigation arrested him
Wednesday afternoon at Offutt Air Force Base.
snip
The Eberle youth's body was found Sept. 21 and the Walden boy's
body Dec. 5.Authorities said Joubert arrived at Offutt 65 days before
the Eberle boy disappeared Sept. 18 while delivering newspapers.
snip
Bob Fee, scout executive with the Mid-America Council of the Boy
Scouts of America, confirmed Thursday that Joubert was an assistant
scoutmaster with Troop 499, which meets at Central Elementary School,
22nd and Madison Streets in Bellevue.

[flyarm]

124. do you have the link to that story?? can you post it?? n/t

[seemslikeadream]

127. Life Imitating Art or Art Imitating Life?

Life Imitating Art or Art Imitating Life?

One of the most interesting criminals to emerge from the pages of Cornwell’s novels is the remorseless killer, Temple Gault. Gault first appears in Cruel and Unusual. He abducts a small boy, Eddie Heath, who is riding his bicycle to a local grocery store. Gault cruelly murders the boy and then unusually places his clothes in a nice, neat pile beside the body. He then cuts away pieces of skin from Heath’s shoulders and thighs. Gault’s character and behavior are chillingly similar to real-life child serial killer John Joseph Joubert IV. Cornwell has never publicly admitted if Gault was based upon a real person. However, one of Jobert’s victims was a small boy who was abducted while riding his bicycle. When the police found his body, pieces of the boy’s flesh from his shoulder and calf muscle were missing. Another Jobert victim also had their clothes folded neatly and placed beside their body.
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:hF2nBf8C-kgJ:www.phenomenalwomen.com/showcase/writing/shellie_rabago.htm+%22John+Joseph+Joubert%22&hl=en


By JIM HALL
Staff Reporter

In 1985, a woman in a church day-care center in Omaha, Neb., noticed a slightly built man hanging around outside, watching the children.

The woman was suspicious of the man--he matched a description broadcast by police--and she wrote down his license number. It was the break that Omaha police needed to capture serial killer John Joseph Joubert IV.

http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/case/lisk70.htm


John Joubert
On August 22, 1982, 11-year-old Richard Stetson disappeared while jogging near his home, in Portland, Maine. A motorist found his body the next morning, lying beside a rural highway, and while he was initially believed to be the victim of a hit-and-run, autopsy results showed that Stetson was strangled, then stabbed several times in the chest. Bite marks on the body were inflicted by a set of human teeth. Investigators had no solid evidence to work with, and a year elapsed before a suspect, 24 years old, was booked for Stetson's murder. Charges were dismissed in February 1984, by which time there were two more victims on the list, some 1,500 miles away. Danny Joe Eberle, age 13, was delivering newspapers in Bellevue, Nebraska, when he vanished on the morning of September 18, 1983. His bicycle and papers were found inside a gate, at the fourth house on his route, but Eberle remained missing until September 21, when searchers pulled his body from some roadside weeds. Partially stripped, he had been stabbed repeatedly, then dumped where he was found. Detectives noticed bite marks on the body, and his ankles had been bound before he died.

On December 2, 12-year-old Christopher Walden disappeared while walking to school three miles from the scene of the Eberle murder. Stabbed repeatedly, his corpse was found by pheasant hunters two days later, hidden in a grove of trees outside of town. Six weeks later, on January 11, 1984, a suspicious young man was seen loitering around a Bellevue preschool. An attendant memorized his license number, and the rented vehicle was traced to 20-year-old John Joubert, an enlisted man at nearby Offutt Air Force Base. A search of Joubert's quarters turned up rope identical to Danny Eberle's bindings; more rope and a hunting knife were found in his car when Joubert was arrested that night.

In custody, the suspect confessed both local murders, warning detectives that he might kill again, if released. Charged with two counts of homicide on January 12, Joubert was held in lieu of $10 million bond pending trial. He pled guilty to both counts on July 3, 1984, and a panel of three judges fixed his sentence at death.

As a native of Portland, Maine, Joubert had also been making headlines at home. Detectives noted similarities between the two Nebraska murders and the Stetson case, instantly bumping Joubert to the head of their short suspect list. Hair samples and tooth impressions were obtained from Joubert in February 1985, and he was indicted for Richard Stetson's murder on January 10, 1986.
http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/serialkillers/joubert.htm

Years later when I quit my full-time job as director of public relations it was with the intention of finally devoting the necessary time to writing a novel. That summer, convicted serial killer, John Joubert was executed for the murders he had confessed to committing in the fall of 1983. Despite it being thirteen years later, I was surprised to find how easily I could remember the raw emotion and the sheer panic surrounding those murders. That was when I decided to write a suspense novel about a community in the grips of a killer’s rampage. A community dealing with the unspeakable crisis of a series of murders, and how a crisis often transforms, paralyzes and/or destroys the lives of those involved.

My research included reading newspaper accounts and watching Joubert’s last interview. I read journalist Mark Pettit’s book about the murders called A Need to Kill , and also Robert Ressler’s book, Whoever Fights Monsters . (Ressler was the FBI profiler who helped capture Joubert.) At the library, I sifted through dozens of books on murder and criminal profiling, often drawing a few raised eyebrows from fellow patrons. I remember one gentleman glancing at the stacked books surrounding me, all of which were about serial killers. He smiled at me and then asked if I was “thinking of taking up a new hobby.”
http://www.alexkava.com/library/excerpt.asp?excerptID=8

As a media witness during John Joubert's execution, Eugene Curtin felt an overwhelming sense of justice when admitted child killer Joubert felt the fourth and final jolt of electricity which would kill him.

I remembered the two children that he had murdered. Let's remember he didn't just kill these children. He killed them in appalling ways. Torture was involved here. The one child he took out in the middle of December, sub-zero temperatures and made him strip down to his underwear and lay in the snow and he murdered him there. Appalling crimes. Yeah, I felt descend over me completely a sense of rightness, that this was ok.
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:fcSaDdjWNlYJ:net.unl.edu/swi/pers/witness.html+%22John++Joubert%22&hl=en

Sheriff Thomas worked with over 300 law enforcement officers in 1983 which led to the arrest, conviction and execution of child serial killer John Joubert. Sheriff Thomas had publicly challenged the then-unknown killer, which John Joubert reacted to, resulting in his subsequent arrest.
http://www.sarpy.com/sheriff/News/news_Thomas.htm

[manna]

129. connect the dots

Check the links on this?

--

Only a few media accounts made mention of the fact that Governor Bush had, in fact, intervened to stop the scheduled execution of a condemned man in June 1998. Virtually none of these accounts, however, made mention of who the recipient of this commutation was. And the recipient was, it should be noted, no garden-variety criminal. No, this was a very special case indeed, for the man whose life was spared by 'Law & Order' George was none other than serial killer Henry Lee Lucas. Lucas is not a garden-variety serial killer: he is probably the most prolific, and arguably the most brutal, serial killer in the American crime annals.

Why then was it this man, and he alone, who received clemency from the governor? Why has there been a nearly complete blackout of this story in the media? Why, for that matter, has there been no mention of it by any of Bush's presidential rivals, Republican or Democrat, despite its obvious power as a weapon in the current campaign?

--

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id419/pg1/

[seemslikeadream]

132. Bush & MKULTRA Satanic killer who Bush pardoned while Governor

Bush & MKULTRA Satanic killer who Bush pardoned while Governor, BOTH in same cult in '80s

Bush covers up likely MKULTRA issues. Plus, Bush himself has been associated with mass murder Satan cult rings at Brownsville, Texas. And this connects him to the very person he "pardoned" while governor of Texas--Henry Lee Lucas, for ritualized killings and cannibalism. They both were associated with Brownsville, TX, cults.

Bush's Wild Years: in the 1980s, Bush and serial killer Henry Lee Lucas in TX Satan cult, George W. Bush investigated for six months for mass murder of 17 people who were skinned in the cult--until VP Poppy Bush told then to drop the case.

"Bush, telling reporters and critics to 'stick to the issues that matter', Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush declined to answer questions Monday concerning his alleged involvement in a 1984 Brownsville, TX, mass murder, in which 17 people were ritualistically murdered and skinned. 'I will not stoop to discussing that,' said Bush....

Bush, the son of a billioniare, was strangely living in the most impoverished place in America, Brownsville. Bush was living nearby to and also inside the headquarters of a Satanic Cult of which he was a member. Bush disappeared for three days during which ALL of the other of his fellow Cult Members were slaughtered. After he reappeared he could not explain where he had been.

***The local prosecutor continued to pursue Bush, sole Cult survivor, on mass murder charges for six months thereafter, heavily pressured by Daddy Bush to stop the investigation.***

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/01/308911.shtml

Ottis Toole: I've been meaning to ask you ... that time when I cooked some of these people? Why'd I do that? Henry Lee Lucas: I think it was just the hands doing it. I know a lot of things we done, in human sight, are impossible to believe.

Ottis Toole: When we took 'em out and cut 'em up ... rememberone time I said I wanted
me some ribs? Did that make me a cannibal?

Henry Lee Lucas: You wasn't a cannibal. It's the force of the devil, something forced on us
that we can't change. There's no reason denying what we become. We know what we are.

http://www.konformist.com/2000/henry.htm

[mordarlar]

165. OSAMA on the CIA drug trade.....there exists a government within the gover

Everytime i read something about the US/CIA drug trade my brain comes back to this article. LOOK AT WHAT HE IS SAYING.

>>>Then there are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance. Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat.<<<<

>>>>Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks.<<<

[Roland99]

133. These two are VERY interesting links

http://crimelibrary.com/serial2/lucas/

There's Something About Henry
Part 1
http://web.archive.org/web/20000815195121/http://davesweb.cnchost.com/henry.htm

There's Something About Henry
Part 2
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:cbpfXHwrkJUJ:www.mail-archive.com/ctrl%40listserv.aol.com/msg48719.html+%22davesweb.cnchost.%2Bcom/henry2.htm%22&hl=en

The Finders
http://web.archive.org/web/20001102193253/davesweb.cnchost.com/finders.htm

[izzybeans]

131. sorry I thought I had one. I found it on lexis Nexis so I hope the link

works for those who don't have a subscription. I'll add it here when I redo the search.

http://web.lexis-nexis.com/universe/document?_m=1304fbb93b7f8e98d7c43b94b0d7616d&_docnum=22&wchp=dGLbVzz-zSkVb&_md5=e16f7a683cf4b4615e4c7260827ec2f1

There was also a story in the Des Moines Register that same year that claimed to be looking for a suspect. But all it referenced was a FBI profile not a real person.

[Bethany Rockafella]

130. I have read some of the links posted here regarding the Franklin Coverup,

and in Bonacci's testimony (or someone else, don't remember), he implicated the involvement of Barney Frank. This may be true about him because of the past of the republicans, why haven't they tried to get this guy out of office? Could it be because there are others on the republican side that are just as guilty.

There is no way the people of his district would stand for a pedophile to be representing them. Or the powers that be have not revealed the truth to the people.

[Bethany Rockafella]

134. Here is another link regarding the Franklin Coverup.

http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/archive/oldnews2/boystown/

[flyarm]

137. Tales of a government

http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/the_new_world_order/govsxslv.html

snip:

Tales of a Government Sex Slave
by David Icke
Tales of a government sex slave...

It was my great pleasure to meet two incredible people in my first few days in the United States, Cathy O'Brien and Mark Phillips.

Cathy O'Brien spent nearly 30 years as a mind-controlled sex slave of the United States Government. She is the only one so far to both have survived with her life and been deprogramed successfully enough for her to remember all that happened. I tell her story at some length in my new book, 'I Am Me, I Am Free', and you can also read her own book, 'Trance-Formation Of America', written with Mark Phillips. I have rarely met a more balanced and loving person than Cathy O'Brien and that is astonishing when you consider what she has had to endure at the hands of some of the world's most famous people.

Cathleen Ann O'Brien was born in 1957 in Muskegon, Michigan. Her father, Earl O'Brien, is a paedophile who used her and her brothers in the pornographic movies he produced for the Michigan Mafia. Among this mafia was the pornographer called Gerald Ford, better known later as the Vice President and then President of the United States. Ford would twice rape Cathy, first when she was a child and then as a young woman when he was President and she was a mind-controlled slave of the US Government. Cathy's father was later set up by Ford. A pornographic movie which Earl O'Brien sent through the post was intercepted and Ford arrived at their house to give him an ultimatum: hand over your daughter to the mind-control operation known as Project Monarch, or face prosecution. Earl O'Brien was delighted with the deal because giving Cathy to the government also allowed him freedom from any further prosecution.

Project Monarch was an offshoot of the CIA's notorious, MKUltra, which I have detailed in my last two books. They chose Cathy because they knew that children who come from families with a history of intergenerational child sexual abuse, are more open to the system of programming they had in mind for her.

The method is called Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) or, more accurately, Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). It breaks up the mind into isolated compartments which are unaware of each other. These are created by constant trauma from a very early age - sexual abuse, violence, torture, overwork, food and water deprivation and a stream of others. The mind then shuts out these horrors from its conscious level by compartmentalising the memory of it. This is why people involved in terrible road accidents can never remember the actual impact or its immediate aftermath. The mind shuts it away.

In the trauma-based mind-control of Project Monarch, these compartments are used to programme different "personalities" which can be used by the Elite of the New World Order. A trigger word, sentence, sound or action, opens these different compartments in turn as they become the person's "personality" until another one is activated. Each compartment has no idea that the others exist and so these mind-slaves have no memory of what they to in their various modes.

[seemslikeadream]

139. Interview with Kathleen Sullivan (Part One)

Let the slave grinding at the mill run out into the field....
William Blake, "America: A Prophecy"

This is the first part of my interview with Kathleen Sullivan, a recovering survivor of trauma-induced mind control. (For a background to this subject, consult earlier posts such as America's Condition Greene.) Kathleen is the author of Unshackled: A Survivor's Story of Mind Control, published by Dandelion Books, which can be ordered from BookSurge. She is founder and president of the North American Freedom Foundation (NAFF), a victim and survivor advocacy group. Much more of her story can be read on her website.

Kathleen Sullivan at 16, and today:


The late Jim Keith, in his book Mass Control: Engineering Human Consciousness, wrote of Kathleen: "one cannot help but wonder if what she says is a particularly twisted brand of science fiction. But the ease with which the woman answers questions put to her, and her sense of sincerity is compelling. Finally, one fears that she is telling the truth."

I know the feeling. Maybe you will, too.

...

I can also give you an example of an opposite problem that I experienced in the mid 1990s. I met an outspoken government mind control survivor, Cathy O'Brien, whose common-law husband advised me to read some materials that Cathy had written about her experiences. I only read one of those articles, in which she had written about a bizarre, very specific sexual act that she had allegedly performed for a certain politician. Although I had independently been remembering that same politician, I still had blank spots in my memory concerning him. Because of this, I inadvertently adopted some of the details of Cathy's story and ended up with a garbled memory about an encounter with the politician that never felt real. Unfortunately the details of her story were so mixed up with an emerging memory of the politician that I still am unable to separate them back out. I call this a “memory scramble." Like scrambling two eggs together, it is nearly impossible, once the amnesic gap is filled with external information, to "unscramble" the pure memory from the gap filler.

more
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/02/interview-with-kathleen-sullivan-part.html

[flyarm]

140. monarch project /mkultra

http://www.think-aboutit.com/Conspiracy/project_monarch.htm


snip:

The most publicized case of MONARCH monomania has surfaced through the book TRANCE Formation of America: The True Life Story of a ClA Slave by Cathy O'Brien. On the back cover it emphatically states, "Cathy O'Brien is the only vocal and recovered survivor of the Central Intelligence Agency's MKULTRA Project Monarch mind control operation" This documented autobiography contains compelling accounts of O'Brien's years of unrelenting incest and eventual introduction into Project MONARCH by her perverted father. Along with co-author Mark PhiIlips, her rescuer and deprogrammer, Cathy covers an almost unbelievable array of conspiratorial crime: forced prostitution (white slavery) with those in the upper echelons of world politics, covert assignments as a "drug mule" and courier, and the country-western music industry's relationship with illegal CIA activities.

Paul Bonacci a courageous survivor who endured almost two decades of degradation under Project MONARCH, has disclosed strong corroborating evidence of widescale crimes and corruption from the municipal/state level all the way up to the White House.<17> He has testified about sexually-abused males selected from Boy's Town in Nebraska and taken to nearby Offut AFB, where he says they were subjected to intense MONARCH programming, directed mainly by Commander Bill Plemmons and former Lt. Col. Michael Aquino.<18> After thoroughly tormenting the young boys into mindless oblivion, they were used (along with girls) for pornography and prostitution with several of the nation's political and economic power brokers. Bonacci recalled being transported from the Air Force base via cargo planes to McClelland AFB in California. Along with other unfortunate adolescents and teenagers, he was driven to the elite retreat, Bohemian Grove. The perpetrators took full advantage of these innocent victims, committing unthinkable perversions in order to satisfy their deviant lusts. Some victims were apparently murdered, further traumatizing already terrified and broken children.

An insatiable actress of marginal talent (now deceased), a morally-corrupt T.V. evangelist, a heralded former Green Beret officer and a popular country-western singer are a few others likely having succumbed to MONARCH madness. Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan-Sirhan, Charlie Manson, John Hinckley Jr., Mark Chapman, David Koresh, Tim McVeigh and John Salvi are some notable names of infamy, strongly suspected of being pawns who were spawned by MKULTRA.

[flyarm]

142. go to bottom of article for cathy o'brien but see who is all involved!

http://www.wiolawapress.com/educatio.htm

don't want to post snips..just read!!

when "new World Order " talks began!

[manna]

143. GNN cathy o'brien trailer

WOW, watch this.

http://www.archive.org/movies/details-db.php?collection=independent_news&collectionid=tmdg_trailer


Originally created for executives at one of the largest and most respected US cable networks, GNN's trailer for The Most Dangerous Game developed into of cult hit all on its own. With its uncannily mysterious protagonists and controversial subject matter, the film looked like a good bet for a late night slot in the powerful documentary division. Especially after the network invested cash and sent some its top producers down to Tennessee to shoot the riveting medical examination that was to form the basis for the film's climax.

However, after reviewing the trailer and holding several discussions about the film's potential, GNN was told that the feature would not be financed . The reason? The subject matter was too marginal in interest for the network's core audience. Not an unrealistic conclusion. Ironically, after the network passed on the deal to develop the content into a feature film, the trailer began to circulate discreetly, among industry insiders, many of whom have commented on the high level of intrigue that is created by the trailer itself.

[flyarm]

144. cathy o'brien "Access Denied"

http://ic.net/~celano/cathtrans.html

snip:

Transcription: Cathy O'Brien's Presentation
Mind Control
A Presentation to Justice Pro Se
by Mark Phillips and Cathy O'Brien
June 4, 1996
Livonia Civic Center Library, Livonia Michigan
transcribed from tape by Peter J. Celano



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cathy O'Brien speaking:
I'd like to thank Justice Pro Se for having Mark and I come in and speak to all of you, and I'd like to thank each and every one of you for coming out here this evening, to arm yourselves with information on a tool that is being used to usher in what Adolph Hitler and George Bush term "New World Order," and that is mind control. You have a right to know and a need to know these secrets that the perpe-traitors* in control of our country have been controlling all of us by for far too long. Knowledge is our only defense against mind control.

*(Transcriber's note: Cathy distinctly says, "Perpe-Traitors". It is also a term that is used repeatedly in their book.)

I know I am extremely fortunate to have survived my CIA MKUltra mind control victimization. I know I am extremely fortunate to have survived to this point, to be able to relay this information to all of you. Many government secrets and personal reputations were staked on the belief that I could not be deprogrammed to remember those things that I was supposed to forget. They were wrong. They never considered the strength of the human spirit. They never considered what would happen when a good man like Mark Phillips found out their secrets and used them for good: used them for the betterment of humanity, used them to restore a mind and a memory, rather than to destroy one and control one.

Now that I am in control of my own mind, and ultimately my free will, I'm telling all that I've witnessed and experienced behind the scenes as a White House/Pentagon level mind controlled slave. I know that my victimization was extreme, and I certainly am not interested or intending to traumatize you with the information of my victimization. Instead, I want to provide you a comprehensive understanding of the components of mind control, and what the plan is for controlling all of us in this world dominance New World Order effort. Many government secrets and personal reputations are now being revealed. Much is coming to light in society today, because people all across this country are beginning to ask questions as to why has our country been eroding morally and constitutionally. Tonight, this information is intended only to provide you with detailed answers, so that you can be far more effective in this ongoing effort to take back our country.

These perpe-traitors in control of our country have operated on the belief that secret knowledge equals power. The more we tell their secrets, the more their power erodes, and the better our chances are for effectively taking back our country. These people that have been in control of our country for far too long are extremely intelligent, yet they don't think deep. They are limited in their thinking by their own immorality. That's where we all have the edge on them. They never counted on good people all across this country to spread information in any means available, and it certainly isn't through our controlled medias. Information has to be spread word-of-mouth, through meetings such as these, as this one is tonight, that are occurring all across this country, through shortwave radio, through various radio stations and public television. There are ways for each of us to get the information out. There are ways to spread the secrets that they would not want you to know.

[flyarm]

145. transformation cathy o'brien

http://www.trance-formation.com/aboutmark.htm

http://www.trance-formation.com/aboutcathy.htm

[lovuian]

146. Ok I found the Blog which connects Thompson 9/11& Franklin

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/

Interesting and Wierd!!!

[flyarm]

148. see my post #126!!! n/t

[dooner]

147. Nazi's, CIA, and recent Freedom of Information release of info

There has been recent news coverage about Nazi's employed by the US/CIA after WW2 and a recent Freedom of Information Act request.

UPI Intelligence Watch
Washington Times 2/7/2005

To the great embarrassment of U.S. intelligence, Washington's National Security Archive has released formerly classified government documents acquired under the Freedom of Information Act, noting that the U.S. agencies recruited and employed five of Adolph Eichmann's Nazi assistants after World War II.
>snip<

Efforts were made to recruit members of the SS and the Gestapo despite the U.S. simultaneously waging a campaign of de-Nazification and arresting and trying Nazi war criminals.... The documents detail U.S. efforts to recruit Reinhard Gehlen, who was the Wermacht's chief intelligence officer for the Eastern Front during the war. On Aug. 22, 1945, Gehlen in the uniform of a star U.S. Army brigadier general and six aides disguised as U.S. Army captains were secretly flown to the United States. At Fort Hunt, Gehlen reached an agreement with the U.S. military to head a secret unit

>snip<



http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050207-024326-3536r.htm
(scroll down page)

[intheflow]

149. Gannon/Gosch similarities - More from Noreen Gosch

Starting from this link in the first "wrinkles" thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3144209#3148604

It was a discussion comparing the age-enhanced picture of Johnny Gosch and one of Gannon/Guckert.

I know there has been info about a James Guckert, about age 47, from Ohio, graduated from Westchester in the Penn State system. But I have to agree that the pictures I've seen of Gannon, even the ones not from his porn sites, do not look like someone who has passed 40 yet. And seeing how fond Gannon/Guckert seems to be of alias with his same initials...

The resemblance to Gosch is striking. The one feature that didn't match in my mind was his nose. However, I just found a People Magazine interview with Noreen Gosch dated 10/10/1988. Here's the relevant excerpt:

This past February we received a typed letter, postmarked from a
western city, supposedly from Johnny. It starts out by saying he
was forced to do many things that disgusted him and that he hopes we
will never forget him and will continue to love him even though he
will not be permitted to return home. He talks about his hair being
dyed and his looks being changed. The thing that really hit us
was the way the letter was signed, 'Your son, Johnny Gosch.' Johnny
was the only one of our children who ever signed notes that way. We
used to make it a family joke, telling him he didn't have to give us his first
and last names and sign things 'Your son,' because we knew
who he was. When I asked the FBI if they thought Johnny wrote it,
they said they were keeping an open mind.

I'm not sure what to make of this. Noreen Gosch has said in the months after Johnny was taken she received a lot of crank calls and letters, and this might be one of them. She does not mention this letter in her account of Johnny's kidnapping and problems with the Iowa police and the Register editor named Gannon. And of course, People Magazine is a rag owned by Time Inc. But still, it might account for differences between Guckert and Gannon.

Unless we've all just lost our minds on this one and really are a bunch of loonies gone 'round the bend. :tinfoilhat:

[Catherine Vincent]

150. So you think Gannon had his nose done?

Could be. Usually when folks want to change their looks, they change the nose. I don't understand why Gannon won't mention on his website once and for all if he is Johnny Gosch.

[Must_B_Free]

151. What's interesting is that Gannon is a blank slate before his TKE frat

I have not seen an Iota of info about where he is from, where he grew up. It's like he suddenly appeared.

[understandinglife]

153. Yes. See #41 and #89....(nt)

Peace.


TBO;24/7

[intheflow]

157. Maybe some other surgery done.

But most off to me is the nose. Johnny Gosch's nose seems to turn up a little, G/G has a very straight nose.

I don't know. The whole thing seems so far fetched. I mean, what are the chances that one of the most famous kidnappings of the '80's would turn up as a male prostitute in the White House press corp?

I can't stand it that I have so little confidence in my government that I can seriously entertain the idea of something so unlikely. :cry:

[flyarm]

161. somewhere i read...

sorry i forget what i read it in but it was one of the other kids who were in the ring..that they saw johnny in colorado..i believe it was on a farm..if my memory is correct..and it may or may not be ..i have read so much for so long about this...

but i believe it was in one of the other kids testimony..or testimonials..that they saw johnny in colorado!!

it would fit well with this..from your post!!

snip:

This past February we received a typed letter, postmarked from a
western city,

[lies and propaganda]

162. colorado scares the shit out of me

google 'denver international airport" and you start to notice fishy shit about four links down.

Just some light nazi and dead baby artwork, freemasonry symbols everywhere. good times

[intheflow]

164. I go through DIA all the time.

Have never seen nazi symbolism or dead baby artwork. Actually, there are two murals, one depicting war and pestilence that has a dead child, but next to it, but the same artist, is a mural imagining a peaceful world without wars. It's a beautiful pair of murals, strong message of peace, painted by a friend of mine, absolutely no evil in him.

I think the person at that site is talking out their arse.


*edited for typo.

[seemslikeadream]

167. Do you know Leo Tanguma and have you seen these murals?

http://www.flydenver.com/guide/art/mural.asp?Page=1&picNum=0&artistNum

[intheflow]

180. Yeah, I know Leo.

I actually know his daughter and granddaughter better, but all are artists. I know his daughter from seminary. She was the art director at a religious camp for teens--a VERY left religious camp for teens. To equate any member of the Tanguma family's work with evil is to completely misunderstand the family from which the artistic vision arises.



This image of his mural "The Children of the World Dream of Peace" won't post except as a link. But the page it links to says that "beating swords into plowshares... sounds pretty Nazi to me."

Whoever posted this obviously doesn't know their Bible very well. "Swords into plowshares" is a quote form the Bible, one that the religious left uses to promote peace.

Micah 4:3

He shall judge between many peoples,
and shall decide for strong nations afar off;
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
and their spears into pruning hooks;
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war any more.

Other ways the plowshare symbology has been used to promote peace and social justice:

The Plowshare Project: http://www.plowsharesproject.org/

Swords-To-Plowshares: http://www.swords-to-plowshares.org/

The Plowshares Movement: http://www.plowsharesactions.org/


*edited for spelling.

[Frederik]

200. That's art

not a secret message from the New World Order :tinfoilhat:

Though I've acually read somewhere that DIA is really a base for the alien greys :-)

[imaginary girl]

163. Another coincidence?

On page 29 of the chap.pdf file linked upthread, Noreen writes, "What happened to the new media who immediately surrounded me ..." She was referring to the journalists she thought would help her publicize America's current slavery. But nobody did. Is it yet another coincidence that Gannon/Guckert refers to himself as a voice of the New Media?

And, after posting my observation of the birthmark on G/Gs chest in one of his photos (posted on one of the other wrinkle threads), I saw that somebody had made reference to a birthmark on Gosch's face. I looked at another description of the child and saw that it mentioned face, too. Yet I distinctly remembered reading "chest" and that Noreen had asked her son to "show her his birthmark" to prove who he was (wouldn't the face mark be obvious?). On the last page of the Chap.pdf file, the chest birthmark is mentioned, not the face. Is somebody tampering with info to confuse investigations? Or are there two different versions out there by mistake?

edited for typo!

[nonny]

168. Re: Birthmark

The birthmark on his chest was mentioned by Noreen Gosch during her court testimony in 1999. This was what Johnny showed her as proof of who he was when he came to visit her in 1997.

Notes on his description from a missing child flyer:

Notes/Comments:John has freckles, a birthmark on his left cheek, a gap between his front teeth, and a U-shaped scar on his tongue. He was last seen delivering newspapers. To see a photo of John as he may look at age 30 click here. To see a photo of John as he may look at age 33 click here.

http://www.childsearch.org/john_gosch.html

If he had any "work" done to his face --- that birthmark would certainly be removed.

[Andy_Stephenson]

171. Yes he could have had the face mark removed...however

look at the picture on the link you provided and compare it with the photo at
www.jeffgannon.com

[seemslikeadream]

172. Thanks Andy

O8)

[nonny]

173. Gosch/Gannon photos

Good catch Andy!
I think the resemblance of these 2 pictures is there. Both front facing.
The slanting down of the eyes, the chin shape, and the crooked smile.
After work tonight I will try to combine the pictures side-by-side in a post.

And try to over lay them in photoshop.

[Catherine Vincent]

174. Here they are:

[Catherine Vincent]

176. We all change over the years,

but there is still some resemblance, for instance, the afghan girl. A lot of folks said it didn't look like her, even the bridge of her nose is different. But it is her. Certain features don't change over the years.

[libertypirate]

186. Good post!

[flyarm]

205. and look how her nose changed!!!

she went from a pudgier wider nose to a sharp pointy nose!!

noses are not good indicators...

my sons nose was pug like when he was in the 10- 14 yr range..now he has much longer thicker nose.. a mans nose..instead of pixy type nose!!
and looks nothing like his younger pictures of his nose..nothing like it!

but his jaw line and the cleft in his chin is same..shape of face the same.

fly

[Frederik]

187. There's that thing

on the right cheek bone on both of them. Notice?

[Catherine Vincent]

190. Yup. I sure do. That is what Andy was was talking about.

[Frederik]

199. What are the chances of that?

[intheflow]

197. Good catch, Frederik.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[imaginary girl]

175. Agreed a face mark would be removed, but ...

Just seems odd that both aren't listed at the same time, ever (at least not in anything we've seen). The chap.pdf file (linked upthread) says, "marks/scars: freckles, large birthmark upper left chest" and then goes on to talk about the scar on the tongue. I think it's strange -- why wouldn't you mention the birthmark on the face since it'd be most obvious? Anything that mentions the birthmark on the face has not mentioned the chest one. Why not mention both at once? Many possibilities, I suppose ...

[Ferry Fey]

170. Adding Armstrong Williams to the mix

Interesting observations on the use of the term "new media," imaginary girl. Good catch.

I'm very surprised that the dots have not been more conspicuously connected to bring in the following information which was being discussed by a few blogs in January:

In 1999, Armstrong Williams had a sexual harassment suit filed against him by a male staffer.

"Stephen Gregory -- the former YMCA personal trainer whom Williams promoted to executive producer of his show -- alleged in his suit that the boss grabbed his buttocks and penis, tried to kiss him, and climbed into his hotel-room bed asking for "affection" while they were traveling together."

http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/people/columns/intelligencer/2902/

"Williams failed to get the suit dismissed in 1998. His once-trainer presented an affidavit from a man who claimed Armstrong propositioned him in 1996 and also had testimony from an ex-intern who said he had brushed off Williams’ advances his first day on the job... The columnist settled the case out of court in early 1999."

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=536

I saw mention (don't recall where) that there were others who had spoken of experiences with Williams fitting the same pattern.

There are not that many payola journalists ("journalists"?) who have yet been identified as being paid by the Bush administration to push propaganda in the guise of objective reporting. That two of them have a gay subtext, in light of the Bush administration's formal hostility to gays, seems significant to me.

[intheflow]

166. Was Andy going to post a picture today?

Is Andy ok? Anyone heard form him today? He hasn't posted in this thread...

[seemslikeadream]

169. GOP pedophilia and S&M trysts: long history going back to Bush 41 & Reagan

By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer

March 3, 2005—The recent scandal involving gay male escort and right-wing faux journalist Jeff Gannon (a.k.a. James Dale Guckert and possibly a few other aliases) is not welcome news for the purported sadomasochistic hedonists in the White House administrations of both George W. and George H. W. Bush.

....
The fact that Gannon/Guckert, a male escort who adopted a military theme for his clientele, was made privy to classified information involving CIA covert agent Valerie Plame and her husband's (former Ambassador Joseph Wilson) trip to Niger to investigate possible uranium shipments, has a precedent with prior GOP illegal sexcapades involving national security breaches. The Franklin pedophile cover-up was mirrored by the Navy pedophile affair that also breached national security during the height of the Cold War. The cover-up of the pedophile ring involving senior naval personnel ran right up the chain-of-command to the Pentagon offices of then-Secretary of the Navy Lehman, Assistant Defense Secretary Richard Perle, and Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger and the White House offices of Vice President George H. W. Bush, and Reagan Chief of Staff and close Bush confidant James Baker III.

As someone intimately involved in the investigation of the Navy case and as a victim of the cover-up, this reporter is publishing for the first time correspondence and documents on the Navy affair so that the current Bush sex scandal, "Gannongate," does not go the way of the Nebraska/Washington, DC, Navy, and Abu Ghraib/Guantanamo scandals. (One note of interest: the "X" in the Case Control Number 718XNA refers to the FBI's cross referencing file numbering system. The "X" means that the case is a "X" case–meaning that the case is of extreme sensitivity, the "NA" following the "X" refers to the Navy. There are, in fact, "X Files," but they have nothing to do with aliens but very much to do with high-level government officials engaged in off-the-wall activities, like pedophilia and prostitution).

more
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/030305Madsen/030305madsen.html

[imaginary girl]

177. Gannon's taunts

Of course no discussion of this issue would be complete without mentioning the odd manner in which G/G throws out mysterious comments, as if taunting people into trying to figure out what he means. Consider a couple of examples from http://www.jeffgannon.com

February 28, 2005

The White House Correspondents' Association decided against changing the policies that allowed me (and others) to attend briefings on a "day pass." The article by Joe Strupp of Editor & Publisher, "White House Correspondents Want No Role in Credentialing" is good news until the very end. "Posing as a journalist?" Some of these guys just don't get the reality of the New Media. Would there be anyone else in that briefing room "posing" as a journalist?

9:45pm

With all of the nasty email I've gotten, it's good to have a few friendly words of support. Sher Zieve heralds my return with "Jeff Gannon is Back!" I hope to be here for some time to come. There is still so much to tell...

[Minstrel Boy]

178. Noreen Gosch is scheduled to be interviewed tonight

here: http://www.mysteriesofthemind.com/

(Note: I've never listened to this show, so I can't vouch for the content on the site.)

Skolnick is a scheduled guest on Friday.

[elehhhhna]

179. kick. So nothing new from her 'til then?

[imaginary girl]

182. I teach tonight. Could you post a report if you're able to listen?

I'm not sure that she would admit it was her son, even if true, though. If G/G is Gosch, I would think that would put him in a very awkward position in regards to the administration.

[Minstrel Boy]

181. An Iowa board: Gannon-Gosch discussed on television?

"WTF? I just caught a blurb flipping through the channels and by the time I digested what I heard I couldn't get flipped back in time to get the last words of the report - what are they talking about? Is somebody claiming that Jeff Gannon is Johnny Gosch? Or is Gannon claiming he is Gosch? Or, that he knows something about his disappearance? Or what?"

http://iowa.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=811&tid=49388948&sid=&style=2

[imaginary girl]

183. Interesting. Thanks Minstrel Boy. Can you post to that list?

Since so many of them were from the same neighborhood, I wonder if any other has heard of a John or James Guckert (if this is also a false name, it may have also been one he was familiar with as a youngster). Nonny has posted that there were 2 John Gosches that lived in a nearby town (or suburb). Might be worth a try!

[Minstrel Boy]

185. Not sure

Too busy this afternoon myself. Maybe somebody could give it a try. Interesting to see a local take on it, anyway.

[seemslikeadream]

195. icemanx722 is linking to a site that links back to DU

icemanx722
user profile
West Des Moines
Post #1263 Re: Jeff Gannon = Johnny Gosch? Reply

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another information filled site, not in blog form so easier to read.

Link: Gosch/Gannon/Guckert link

http://www.total411.info/2005/02/jeff-gannon-johnny-gosch-hunter.html

[libertypirate]

184. Any ideas where the Franklin freaks might be back at it?

Predatory behavior won't change in these people...

[libertypirate]

188. What does it say that a high school paper has....

better coverage of gannon then the media apparatus in our country.

http://silverchips.mbhs.edu/printer.php?sid=5020&printer=1

From crickey Austrailia
http://www.crikey.com.au/articles/2005/03/004-0001-6827.html
Third topic Conspiracies
The latest couple of conspiracies from the US are: the Jeff Gannon one, which has had more coverage in crikey than in many mainstream US papers;

[nonny]

189. Photos Gosch/Gannon

Here is the Jeff Gannon photo from www.jeffgannon.com merged together with the Johnny Gosch photo from the missing child flyer http://www.childsearch.org/john_gosch.html

I did this in Photoshop first enlarging the gannon photo to be the same size as the gosch photo. The gosch chin is down much more the the gannon chin, so they are not matching up exactly. This affects the lower part of the face, ears, etc. I worked on aligning the eyes.
(Fast work during my lunch)
Then sliding the opacity on the gannon layer down to 30, 60, 90%


>
>
>
>

[Catherine Vincent]

191. Amazing!

Thanks.

[Minstrel Boy]

192. wow, thanks for that

I'm going to blog this, and link back here. The alignment of the features is striking.

[ClayZ]

196. Absolutely amazing!

You are good!

Where have all the children gone, long time passing,
Where have all the children gone, long time ago?
Where have all the children gone, They have gone to.............


The wrinkle, is getting iorned out!

Thank you!

[intheflow]

198. That's just uncanny.

It was always the eyes that made me think the two looked so similar. Even though the photos were taken at slightly different angles, the way the eyes match up is... unsettling.

[merh]

203. Its always been the eyes, the chin and the cheeks for me and with

this imagery, I am even more convinced.

[earth mom]

215. Amazing! Another thought-anyone know of a photo of G/G smiling?

Because I've yet to see his TEETH! Sure, they could be different and capped, but it would be helpful to see them I think. I don't recall him smiling on that t.v. interview he did...maybe because he still has that gap is the reason...?!

[merh]

226. How about this one?

:shrug: Whatcha think? Jimmy-jeff & Noreen

[FogerRox]

227. Problem w/pic @ age 33--its crude--The lips are pasted

as are many other features--its not morphed.
The ears look pasted on too.

[nonny]

229. Not Pasted

There are no features moved, stretched, pasted or otherwise manipulated.
The picture of Gosch is directly from the flyer.
http://www.childsearch.org/john_gosch.html

The picture of Gannon is taken from his website
http://www.jeffgannon.com

This picture was enlarged to match the other picture.
Then Gosch was the background with the picture of Gannon over top.
Line them up (that just means move the top one in place)
Then make the top one transparent to 30% 60% 90%

Absolutely no other changes.

[FogerRox]

231. Not what I'm talking about--the kid: that pic---provided "Bits"

For the Pic at age 33. The mouth "looks" exactly the same.

[nonny]

232. Now I get it.

To see a photo of John as he may look at age 30 click here. To see a photo of John as he may look at age 33 click here.

Yes these 2 photos are age enhanced. The mouth does look exactly the same as the picture on the flyer.

I BELIEVE that the flyer picture is REAL.

[FogerRox]

233. age 12 and age 33 have the same mouth and lips. Its a poor job.

Age enhanced photo Certainly not PC--software doing a morph.

Do an over lap --the mouth area at age 12 and age 33.

[mordarlar]

228. Can you do that with these pics....

Let me know if the link does not work. If one of the images is flipped i think they would blend near perfect.

file:///d:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Mom/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/goshgannon.bmp

[elehhhhna]

194. Ronald Reagan Comments On J. Gosch, Cedar rapids, 1984:

May I just interject something on that subject here? There've been two tragedies in Iowa that have saddened us all. In 1982, young Johnny Gosch disappeared while delivering newspapers on his morning route in Des Moines. Then, just 6 weeks ago, another newspaper boy, Eugene Martin, also disappeared.

Well, I want you to know that I've spoken with Jim Gannon, the editor of the Des Moines Register. We've pledged our full support in the search for these two boys. And this past June, we established the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in Washington to help locate missing children across America. So far, the Center has received thousands of telephone calls and helped hundreds of parents. Nancy and I join all of you, I'm sure, in praying for the safe return of Johnny and Eugene. And I pledge to you that none of us will rest until the streets in Iowa and throughout this nation are once again safe, particularly for our children.

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1984/92084b.htm

[Minstrel Boy]

201. "Protester cuffed after porn tirade" (disrupting Congress)

Protester cuffed after porn tirade

The Hill, March 3

A woman was arrested for disruption of Congress on Tuesday afternoon after she stood up in the Senate visitors gallery and began shouting wildly about child pornography during debate over the bankruptcy bill.

At a few minutes before 5 p.m., when Sens. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) and Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) were debating an amendment, the woman rose and shouted, “You don’t know who’s a pedophile,” according to a Democratic staffer whose office abuts the chamber.

“You don’t know who has a child pornography site,” she continued. As police were removing her from the chamber, she began shouting names. “George Bush, John Kerry, McCain from Arizona — those are the sites you should check.”

The woman, who appeared to be roughly in her 50s or 60s, continued to scream, kick and resist for some time as she was removed to a hallway and handcuffed. A Senate employee who works in the gallery said the woman “had been in there all day and I think even yesterday.”
http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/UndertheDome/030305.html

[merh]

202. Now that gives me the chills!

"“You don’t know who has a child pornography site,” she continued. As police were removing her from the chamber, she began shouting names. “George Bush, John Kerry, McCain from Arizona — those are the sites you should check.”"

[Catherine Vincent]

204. What does this woman know that we don't know?

[libertypirate]

206. Have you watched this?

Conspiracy of Silence

http://www.rense.com/general61/appallingconspiracyof.htm

It explains many things...

[Catherine Vincent]

210. No, but I'm bookmarking to watch when I get home.

Thanks.

[merh]

225. I sure wish someone would improve at least the sound quality

on this video. :shrug:

[Roland99]

207. Probably not a lot.

I'm guessing she ran out of Zoloft last week.

[OBrien]

220. that everyone has a big rabbit as a best freind?

come on. I've been enjoying this thread, I find some of this info very intriguing, but really, the tin foil hat gets a bit to large sometimes.

[Blue Gardener]

209. I've wondered about McCain

When he's around Bush, he seems very uncomfortable, but still seems to back him all the time. Remember that picture of them on the plane when Bush had his arm over his shoulders? McCain looked totally creeped out. Does Bush have the goods on McCain to keep him in line?
How many others are keeping quiet so they aren't exposed?

[Kansas Wyatt]

213. For someone who was kicked in the nuts....

During the 2000 Republican Primary and ranted about the current Republican Party moving away from the traditional Republican values, he sure seems to pander to Shrub and his neo-con ways a lot.

[libertypirate]

214. They are a danger to our country...

and need to be outed.

[Liberal In Texas]

222. I'm starting to wonder about a lot of them.

Scenario:

Politician A is lured into a compromising situation, and is photographed. "The Powers That Really Run Things" now have blackmail fodder.

It may even have been something like a <ahem> affair with an aide or intern, or an adult hooker. But this is the start of the downward spiral. They have Politician A and force him to do more and more awful things until he's in it up to his neck.

It doesn't matter what party, "TPTRRT" cabal have Politicians A, B, C, etc. in their pockets. If Politician A gets out of line, details of the affair with the aide are leaked as a warning. If he really doesn't behave, his plane may have mysterious trouble and crash killing all aboard.

Just a scenario. I'm in the middle of DeCamps book, maybe I'm getting paranoid.

[libertypirate]

224. Running a scenario is not paranoia

It’s logically concluding a possible result of the evidence and information you have.

I would say that it depends on the individual how exactly they get exploited sex, money, other criminal behavior.

It's all about power through exploitation.

lp
http://www.rense.com/general61/appallingconspiracyof.htm

[earth mom]

216. WHOA-wonder if the CM will pick this one up? Probably not. eom

[EFerrari]

212. CAN WE PLEASE START A NEW THREAD?

I've been digging around and have some questions, need some help. And this thread is just such a long slog. Pretty please? :think:

[intheflow]

219. I second this request.

My dial-up connection can't handle much more.

[EFerrari]

223. Please (begging, lol) continue here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3214059