BTK Killer Registered Republican in 1972.

[benburch]

His killing spree began in 1974.

And remains a registered Republican to this day.

[xultar]

1. BTK is GOP n/t

[Swamp Rat]

7. "BTK is GOP"

"BTK is GOP"
"BTK is GOP"
"BTK is GOP"

:evilgrin:

[slor]

2. Bundy was a rethug too. n/t

[MsTryska]

3. gacy seems to fit the repub profile as well.

We should come up with a list of serial killers and their political leanenings. heh.

[benburch]

6. Gacy was Democrat.

In those days you didn't get construction contracts in Chicago unless you were a Democrat...

[MsTryska]

13. damn.

well that blows that idea.


oh well i suppose we have no chocie but to share the serial killer wealth.

[meow2u3]

43. Gacy was the exception that proved the rule

that serial killers are Repukes...

[benburch]

49. I know that many were.

But I haven't seen a definitive study. Do you have one you can cite? (Not challenging you, I just want to find one.)

[Bush_Blows]

99. I'm not sure you can support "many"

I know of three who were Democrats, and 12 who were Republicans.

Of course this goes back to the 1880s when part roles were rather different.

[benburch]

116. Like I say, I don't have a good data set. Welcome to DU!!!!

:yourock:

[Kingshakabobo]

66. The old "Daley Democrat" was the same thing as a repug. n/t

[Zuni]

140. not really

but it is corrupt/machine style politics

[kevin881]

187. no.

[MsTryska]

4. So does that mean he was goldwater republican?

or a Nixonite?



i vote for neocon.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

5. I don't remember there being any liberal serial killers

Unless someone knows otherwise.

[elehhhhna]

9. manson. but he didn't actually kill anybody...

[JHB]

126. Manson wan't a liberal...

...don't be fooled by the long hair and dope. The killings themselves were part of a harebrained scheme to trigger a race war, which is why he & his "family" were holed up in the mountains.

[benburch]

128. I'm not sure Manson fits in ANY box.

But he certainly is EVIL.

[Zuni]

172. Good point

He was a whacked out con-man and a cult leader.

[elehhhhna]

134. I forgot about that. Yep he was a reep.

[maveric]

154. Just like Hitler didnt actuall kill anybody?

[Zuni]

171. probably not with his own hands

but he sure did tell people to kill for him.
I am not sure what he did at the LaBianca house, but he was not there during the Tate murders.

[Zuni]

139. John Wayne Gacy

he was a strong democrat and was apparently 'very liberal'.

[mzmolly]

156. I just heard the opposite the other day.

:crazy:

[Helga Scow Stern]

159. Actually, some of those in Santa Cruz

may have been. There were three operating simulataneously in the city around the same time BTK got started, in the early 1970's.

[riverwalker]

8. I knew it. I knew it.

in my guts.
To "bind, torture and kill" was one of the directives issued by Rummy and approved by Gonzales.

[benburch]

10. Bob Kincaid did this research, BTW.

His show is archived at http://www.WhiteRoseSociety.org/

[Padraig18]

11. Why is this relevant?

I cannot understand this puerile obsession with the murdering savage's political affiliation!

:wtf:

[benburch]

12. Because it fits the pattern.

And might be useful in profiling future serial killer cases.

[Padraig18]

14. Oh, horseshit!

Do you have anything even resembling evidence to back that absurd statement up?

:eyes:

[benburch]

19. Yes!

Bob Kincaid phoned the county clerk there and they told him that BTK was registered GOP.

You could do the same yourself if you choose not to believe me.

[Padraig18]

20. THIS statement:

benburch Donating member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Click to send message via AOL IM Mon Feb-28-05 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Because it fits the pattern.



And might be useful in profiling future serial killer cases.

What 'pattern' does it fit, pray tell?

:eyes:

[benburch]

23. A profile of BTK I read years ago on a Serial Killer discussion list.

It was predicted he would have a background in law enforcement or justice, that he would likely be a community or church leader of some sort, and that he would likely be a Republican voter. He also predicted he would be well-liked.

As far as I can see, that person almost pegged it. He was a code enforcement officer with an administrative justice degree, was President of his church, and a scout leader, and now we find was in fact a registered Republican.

But, people say he was a real asshole.

[Padraig18]

24. I'd like a link, please.

I'll believe it when I see it.

:eyes:

[benburch]

25. If I had a link to a mailing list from the early 90s, I'd do it.

But those things didn't HAVE links back then, Padraig.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[benburch]

35. Fine. But that doesn't fit any of the profiles.

Which suggest a Sadistic and Authoritarian mindset.

I don't even have the hard drive I was using then, it having crashed in '97, or I'd send you the actual piece of mail.

But you'd tell me I had made that up anyway.

:(

What is the basis for this hostility, Padraig? I find it quite distressing.

[JHB]

127. News article: Suspect fits serial killer profile

But the respectable profile that emerged after Rader was named Saturday by police as Wichita's notorious "BTK" killer, responsible for at least 10 murders since the 1970s, was no shock at all to experts who track the diverse collection of psychopaths and psychotics who have written their names in blood across the American crime landscape.

"Nothing about this surprises me," said Katherine Ramsland, a professor of forensic psychology at DeSales University in Pennsylvania. "A person diagnosed as psychopathic would be chameleonic. They know the right behavior, the right words, but they don't feel anything. They are able to compartmentalize. They can live their lives sincerely, and also be out there killing, because they set those parts apart."
-----
Experts said that, while every combination of traits is unique, most known aspects of Rader's behavior fit patterns that have been seen before.

Contractor John Wayne Gacy, for example, lived an apparently upstanding life while killing, as did law student Ted Bundy. Seattle-area Green River killer Gary Ridgway dramatically slowed his activity after his bloodiest early sprees. And San Francisco's Zodiac killer of the early 1970s, never caught, gave himself a nickname and had the same penchant for publicity as the BTK killer.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usbtk014161392mar01,0,348480.story?coll=ny-top-span-headlines

[benburch]

129. Thanks for posting that! nt

[Zuni]

142. I have to admit, he does fit a Republican sterotype

but there are many killers that do not. Many do not even seem to have any political affiliation

[AlCzervik]

16. most serial killers are white males

can we just leave at that?

[Padraig18]

17. It seems not.

*sigh*

[AlCzervik]

18. i know....trying to help

that'll learn me.

[benburch]

21. If you don't examine all the evidence, how can you ever develop a profile?

I know rather a lot about this as my wife is a social worker who has spent a lot of time studying serial killers in connection with her work with sex-offender youth.

Profiling is a serious study, and you need to pull together all factors in a killer's background.

One profile of BTK that I read suggested that he would be a registered Republican, and this validates that.

The clerk Bob Kincaid talked to told him that he was the only person in the world who had called requesting that information.

[Padraig18]

22. What profile sugested that he would be a registered Reublican?

I call bullshit!

[benburch]

33. Believe what you will.

Not all information is online. If you cannot accept my memory of what I read 13 years ago, then you can put me in ignore if you like.

However, Here is a current profile, that says; "He may have a great deal of respect for cruel political and military leaders, believing them to be strong men who do their jobs well; leaders who "did what was necessary."

Which sounds like as good a description of George Bush as could be hoped for...

http://www.sheprofilers.com/pages/BTK.htm

[Kingshakabobo]

62. Come on now.

Law enforcement + Authoritarian figure (liked to measure neighbor's grass blades) + Military + Church elder + scout master = Likely Freeper.

I would take that bet any day.

[Zuni]

145. Only in this country

In Latin America, which has had many very, very prolific serial killers that we never really hear about up here they are either Hispanic or Mestizo.
There is one very prolific serial killer still on the loose in Juarez, Mexico----he may be the most prolific killer in the last several decades.

Pedro Lopez of Peru is in the Guiness book of world records with over 350 murders.

In Pakistan, a man who had killed over 50 children was on trial on a few years ago.

In these countries, less sophisticated police work and a desire not to go public out of embarrasment has kept other country's serial killers down. The US and the UK have the most well known killers, but they are everywhere.

[bloom]

50. I don't know why anyone around here would be particularly upset

about it - esp. since it isn't just speculating.

[benburch]

67. I don't get it either.

I've asked Padraig why the hostility, but he hasn't replied yet.

I was really taken aback by it.

[Goldmund]

72. Because this is the kind of a herd-mentality blanket accusation

that is at the root of all kinds of bigotry. Not only is there no proof that it is statistically true, but more importantly: doesn't fucking matter even if it is statistically true. Statistically, Arabs are more likely to be terrorists, at least currently; statistically, black males are more likely to be criminals. Do you support racial profiling?

Yes, I'll buy blanket statements such as "Bush supporters as a group have a lower IQ", or "Bush supporters as a group are less informed and more ignorant". Even "Bush supporters are more mysoginist, xenophobic, gullible", etc, etc. But a serial killer? Come on.

[benburch]

74. But I made no blanket statement!

This serial killer was a registered republican.

I'd really link to know if MOST serial killers were. That would be valuable as a profiling tool.

[Goldmund]

80. PROFILING tool?

Are you listening to yourself, dude?

[benburch]

84. Yes, a profiling tool.

Law enforcement establish profiles to narrow the focus in cases such as this.

All data on past serial killers feeds into profiling for future and open cases.

It is therefore significant that he is a lifelong Republican.

It would be equally significant were he a lifelong Democrat, but he wasn't.

It would be equally significant were he a lifelong Green, but he wasn't.

Why does this verifiable true datum bother you so much?

[Goldmund]

86. This is not that kind of profiling, and you know it.

You did not bring up this issue, the radio host did not bring up this issue, because you were musing about effectiveness of law enforcement techniques. I suppose next week he'll do a show on blood types more likely to commit violent crimes? It's a fascinating subject, really.

This is an equivalent of racial profiling, where you inductively use real-world examples in order to prove your own group's moral, or whatever kind, superiority.

[benburch]

91. You claim to know my inner thoughts now?

And you ding ME for wanting to discuss serial killer profiling. What a hypocrite.

I have, and I am not kidding, a bookcase here entirely full of books on criminology, serial killers, and unsolved murders. I do not discuss this matter on a lark.

You, however, have seem to have an axe to grind that is not born of any regard for fairness to Republicans.

[Goldmund]

94. In a larger sense, why YOU personally are interested is irrelevant.

The tone you set in this thread is definitely not one of discussing law-inforcement techniques, and most people in this thread are not discussing it from that angle. To claim so is, excuse the copycatting, hypocritical.

I'm not concerned about being fair to Republicans. I'm concerned about furtively, steathily adopting mental constructs originating from the right wing; I'm concerned that some of their analytical mechanisms can sneak up on the liberal consciousness and enter the liberal rhetoric. I'm concerned that when we're not looking these kinds of ideas and these kinds of sentiments are crawling into our brains.

[benburch]

97. Nice...

And then you claim to know my motives, my stealthy mind control tactics...

The "Jedi Mind Tricks" argument is intellectually dishonest.

[Goldmund]

98. oh, come on

Please read what I said again. I did not say that you were doing some mind tricks or trying to control anything or had any malicious agenda whatsoever.

"I claim to know your motives" -- what? :shrug:

[Bush_Blows]

100. If you don't mine a buttinski...

It did sound to me like you were saying that, too.

[Goldmund]

101. All right, let me try to clarify it

Your saying (or Benburch's, rather) that you are personally interested in law enforcement techniques has nothing to do with this discussion. That's a bit of personal information that is, like any personal information, irrelevant. Sure, there are people -- law enforcement enthusiasts -- who would ask this question -- "what party was did the BTK killer belong to?" -- without any political, quasi-tribal connotation. But this thread does not represent that sentiment. This thread is self-righteous tribalism, no different from Freepi rejoicing that the latest child molester caught was actually gay.

Or, that John Lyndh was from a liberal family in San Francisco. Ergo, liberals need to be profiled in connection to terrorism links.

[benburch]

102. If you mean to delineate the GOP as a "tribe" (which is a stretch)...

Then you would need to tell me what would be ethically wrong with delineating the criminal behaviors of such a tribe?

Would you have a problem if I were investigating the machete killing of a female member of Rawanda's Tutsi tribe and were to look first at a male member of the Hutu tribe?

Would you have a problem if I were investigating the poison gas killing of a Jewish man during WW-II if I first looked to known members of the SS?

In the GOP, we have an authoritarian, nationalistic party proven capable of mass murder of a scapegoat nation, ruled as an oligarchy without regard to laws. Why would it be irrelevant if we found (and we haven't, yet) that most serial killers adhere to that party because it appeals to the authoritarian component in their makeup?

Should a homicide detective ignore that and concentrate on PETA members instead, just to be "fair"?

[Goldmund]

131. You keep missing my point.

First of all, the fact that this one serial killer is a Republican does nothing to show the validity of any kind of a profile. And that is my first objection. But assume that can be shown -- as can be shown that a drive-by shooting is commited by a black person more often than by an Asian, for example.

And we're back to my original point. You're not a homicide detective, and most people talking in this thread are definitely not homicide detectives. And before you hit me with your interest in crime detective work, it isn't to you personally that I'm raising an objection. I'm raising an objection to the undeniable and obvious sentiment in this thread. This thread is not about techniques of law enforcement investigation. This thread is about self-righteous moralizing, and tainting a wide group.

The main difference between the two approaches, the law-enforcement and this tribalistic self-righteousness, is induction vs. deduction. A crime detective deduces that his or her suspect may be of group X or Y to narrow his or her spectrum of possible suspects. A self-righteous moralizer induces a crime like this into a taint of Republican character. A cop would say "the suspect is likely a republican"; this thread is -- and this is hyperbole - "A republican is likely suspect.".

Maybe it's all easier to talk about through an analogy. Take John Walker Lyndh, and the Freeptards' jumping on that story to paint liberals as supporters of terrorism. Every single argument you've given could be given in that discussion, just as validly. And when they were done chewing John Walker Lyndh, they came away with another "proof" of an association betwen liberalism and terrorism.

[benburch]

147. I think I addressed all those points already.

I cannot take responsibility for how anybody but myself reacts to true data.

Sure freepers and CUers want to make all criminals into Liberals. It suits them so well, and worked SO well for them with Timothy McVey!

However, were I a homicide detective looking into a case such as this one, and I had a list of suspects and their political and other affiliations, I would prioritize my attention to those that were Republicans, Church leaders, and wannabe police (security guards, etc.) as those people have selected affiliations that align with the authoritarians/sadistic axis.

Doesn't mean I'd rush out and arrest the first GOPer on the list!!! That is not how police work is properly done, and you know that.

But would you rather I send my time on the least likely suspects first?

Would that suit your political sensibilities?

Meanwhile, people are still dying, and will continue to die until the perp is identified and taken down.

Now, if I had a different case; Say, arson deaths of firemen putting out a fire in a newly built luxury home in a formerly wooded area, I'd sort my list of suspects to put Liberals, eco-activists, anarchists, and etc. at the top as torching new development is an established pattern for that profile. Doesn't mean they did it; Could have been an insurance job for example, but you have to prioritize your efforts to maximize early success unless you are a fool.

[Goldmund]

150. My "political sensibilities" have nothing to do with law enforcement.

They can use whatever is statistically shown to help them out the most while minimizing cases of wrongful police activity. I'm no expert on that. I was talking about an entirely different thing.

"I cannot take responsibility for how anybody but myself reacts to true data."

To be perfectly honest, I find it really, really difficult to believe that your intention in posting this was to discuss law enforcement techniques. But if you so claim, I won't question you.

Again, and I keep saying, over and over: this isn't about you personally, or about anything you said. I'm talking about the sentiment in this thread, and I've only ended up talking to you personally because I thought it was reasonable to assume that you would have expected this sentiment after posting that fact -- since this isn't a law enforcement board, but a political one, and one which -- for the lack of a better word, hates Rethugs; and people who find the fact that BTK was GOP relevant will overwhelmingly find it so from a political perspective, not a law-enforcement one.

So, if the only reason you brought this up is to discuss law enforcement, disregard my comments. I'm not talking about you or anybody in particular. I'm talking about this general sentiment.

Maybe I'll post a thread on the fascinating uses of DNA in forensics. I wonder if it'll get this big, or drop like a lead balloon.

[EST]

103. Absolutely, positively spot on.

Much as we clue monkeys would like to think ourselves "above" that sort of thing and immune to creeping context blight, the very surety with which we regard our vaunted, well reasoned points of view can almost serve as an indicator of how far we've crawled, blinded by our light, back into our darkest places...

Sure, I'd like to see each of the people I see as jerks fit into my own little profiling machine that my prejudices have built for me-satisfies some deep, self centered need to be right and righteous about it all.

[Zuni]

146. too much dogmatic thinking here

we tend to reinforce our own prejudices here and that leads to absence of self-critiscm and critical thought.

[oasis]

161. This is war. We can engage in "self-criticism" after we win America back.

Don't worry, Elizabeth Edwards doesn't bother reading these kinds of threads.

[benburch]

164. Some of the people here doing the "self-crtitcism" are not on our side.

It is easy to prove.

Put a one pixel white graphic in a posting like this one.

Put a similar one in a posting on Free Republic.

Compare the web server logs. (You need to have your own web server to do this.)

You will find that a lot of people who are here are deep cover Freepers.

Which is why you can twit the Freepers without ever polluting yourself with their site; They are reading this now. They care a LOT about what we say and think because it defines who they are. They are pathetic.

[Goldmund]

165. You think I'm a Freeper?

Honestly?

[benburch]

166. No. I didn't say you!

In fact, I'd be amazed if you were.

I haven't run this experiment in 9 months or so, and don't know any of the current IP traps.

But the Freepers are here right now anyway.

And they conspire with each other to turn us against each other.

[Goldmund]

168. Whew,

my cover's still in tact. ;)

[SmokingJacket]

117. A political affiliation is VERY different from a race or ethnicity.

It's a choice you make that reflects your values.

If you care about the suffering of others, chances are very good you're a liberal and a democrat, because those parties more often back social programs that attempt to lessen that suffering.

If you're a serial killer you obviously don't care about the suffering of others: in fact, you enjoy it! So you're hardly going to be a big supporter of a party that focuses on a strong social safety net, for example.

That said, equating repubs with serial killers is only going to polarize us more!

[bloom]

125. So what do you think about debate framing

seems like that does the same thing.


http://www.wwcd.org/issues/Lakoff.html

Metaphor, Morality, and Politics,
Or,
Why Conservatives Have Left Liberals In the Dust

by George Lakoff

--------------

If it's possible that the Republican ideal actually leads some people to violence - some more extreme than others - it certainly seems worthy of discussion.

I see more and more violence advocated - and whether it's supposed to be a joke or not - people should take notice. (Of course Ann Coulter advocates talking to liberals with baseball bats)...

-----

From the FreeRepublic:

To: MisterRepublican
Ann was looking especially good this morning. And she was on fire with the libs calling in. And I was impressed that she reads FR. Ann, if your lurking, MARRY ME!!!

Sweetest Ann,
If you've been following the forum at all, you know that my fondest desire in life is to create a vast system of Concentration Camps for liberals, in which the death-houses are working day and night, day and night -- and in which the liberals are rendered into beef jerky, to be sold, of course, to Republicans and Conservatives.

Certainly you know that this makes us soul-mates.
With great affection,

Laz
25 posted on 02/18/2005 7:42:17 AM PST by Lazamataz

--------

And then last night - family members of a judge that sentenced Hale were killed.
---------
April 26, 2004
Matthew Hale Found Guilty
White supremacist, Matthew Hale, has been found guilty of plotting to have a federal judge killed.

The AP reports that Hale was found guilty on four of the five counts against him in his plot to kill the judge who ruled against him and ordered him to stop using the name "World Church of the Creator" in reference to his supremacist organization.
---------

Our society is being infected with sick thoughts - some of it is done on purpose by people with a lot of money and power. While I don't wish to see the Democrats absorb the virus - I'm not going to ignore it when I see sick Republicans.

I think the likes of Limbaugh and Coulter who work with the approval and support of Republicans - to encourage racism (notice Ann Coulters recent anti-Arab remark about Helen Thomas) and sexism and hate of liberals - fuels all this and makes the Republican leadership as well as many of the followers complicit in the violent mentality that is the USofA of today.

[Goldmund]

151. I agree with everything in your post.

I'll be the first person to say that the GOP is a cult of dark ideology that has dark and violent and mysoginistic and xenophobic and mind-numbing and self-loathing and reactionary effects on the society.

But the average Joe-sixpack republican is just a tool, the likes of which have always existed and will always exist. Give'em Hitler, they become Nazis; give'em Gandhi, they'll be peaceful resisters; give'em Reagan, they'll be greedy, and give' em Bush, they'll be freepers.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

64. Do you suppose

Czar Nicholas had a "puerile obsession" with the political affiliation of his family's killers? Y'know: the Bolsheviks.

Padraig, they're killers down to the last one, at least those who voted for Bush. Y'know: the Busheviks.

What's the difference between BTK and Bush? One kills indiscriminately for the sick, psychopathic fun of it. The other one's BTK.

[Goldmund]

73. Har har.

[DemonFighterLives]

119. I haven't heard your show

But welcome to DU! :toast:

[benburch]

124. You can hear Bob's show 24/7!

It's archived daily at http://www.WhiteRoseSociety.org/

[maxrandb]

111. It's Relavant Because We Are Finally Beginning to Play The Repukes Game

I am so tired of the right wing corporate media putting up some "whack" job, long-haired, dope smoking, unwashed, hippie with flowers in their hair (apologies to long-haired hippies) and using that as an example of "All Democrats" or "All Liberals".

They pull this crap all the time! IMHO, that is one of the main reasons that they have come to power! With the help of the "sensationalist media", they have been able to define Democrats and liberals by the "extremes" in our party. Think Rush hammering away for three hours on the "looney left". It's not by accident that he came up with that phrase.

It's the perfect, cheap way to "dehumanize" their political enemies. If "Joe Sixpack" associates everything Democratic with their prefered sterotype, then even though the Democratic Party is the one that fights for Joe Sixpack, even though Democratic Policies help make Joe Sixpack's lot in life a little better...Joe Sixpack will never vote for a Democrat, or a liberal, because he sees them as the caricature the right has made.

Maybe now we have learned to "fight fire with fire". Maybe it's past time we define the right by the "extremes" on their side. Maybe Joe Sixpack will take a closer look when he hears the word "conservative" and sees a white robed, hooded, peodophilic, serial killing rapist.

[devilgrrl]

15. Shocking!

Go figure. :eyes:

[FlyByNight]

27. Bill Hicks once said (paraphrasing),...

"anyone that far to the right is hiding a deep, dark secret." I don't know how far to the right this guy is but Republicans and/or conservatives don't seem to have a big problem with leading (some sort of) double lives.

Some examples: William Bennett, moral scold - gambler; Rush Limbaugh, anti-drug douche-bag - addict; Jim/Jeff Guckert/Gannon, anti-gay, Bush sycophant - gay prostitute; Bill O'Reilly, another moral scold - sexual harasser. Who's next?

[oasis]

30. That's why they crave power and exibit such insensitevity and cruelty.

9 out of 10 asshole are Republicans. Even they would have to admit that they have a much high degree of assholery.

[fob]

54. Can you put that in the form of that "17 to 40 year old muslim" xenophobic

email, only the answer would be "24 to 70 year old white male republican"

Murrah Federal Building destroyed by;
"24 to 70 year old white male republican"

Atlanta olympics bombing;
"24 to 70 year old white male republican"

Moral highhorse author caught gambling;
"24 to 70 year old white male republican"

Serial killer from Washington to Florida, resembles g w bush*;
"24 to 70 year old white male republican" (ted bundy)

Congressman who divorced his sick wife while she was in the hospital so he could "move on" to his 2nd (3rd?) wife while at the same time criticising an actual President for consensual affair;
"24 to 70 year old white male republican"

etc, etc.

Come to think of it, why DON'T we using profiling more?

[GrpCaptMandrake]

63. Beautiful!

Just beautiful!

[screembloodymurder]

28. BTK killer reminds me of our President

Tortures, kills.....hides among the religious right.

[tinonedown]

32. Yes....

But does he bind?

[libodem]

179. Have you seen those Iraqis hanging by their wrists?

[ultraist]

48. And both Bush and the BTK murderer are sociopaths!

[oasis]

29. Bingo. I suspected as much, he fits the Republican profile.

[barbaraann]

31. The media is paying very little attention to this story now.

I think it's because he is one of "them."

[benburch]

34. I don't think they know yet that he is GOP...

This posting (And Bob Kincaid's show) broke this information.

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. Family Values!

:shrug:

[benburch]

37. I'm betting he couldn't WAIT to vote for Bush on November 2nd.

Check out this story on him;

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050226/ap_on_re_us/btk_killings&e=3

Some excepts;

<SNIP>

"Rader, a Cub Scout leader who was active at his Lutheran church, lived with his wife, neighbors said. Public records indicate they have two grown children. Messages left for family members were not returned on Saturday, and no one answered the door at the home of his in-laws.

A few neighbors recalled receiving small favors from Rader, but most interviewed Saturday said the municipal codes enforcement supervisor was an unpleasant man who often went looking for reasons to cite his neighbors for violations of city codes. "

<SNIP>

"Along with his grisly crimes, the killer terrorized Wichita by sending rambling letters to the media, including one in which he named himself BTK for "Bind them, Torture them, Kill them." In another he complained, "How many do I have to kill before I get my name in the paper or some national attention?" "

<SNIP>

And this one;

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/28/national/28btk.html

<SNIP>

"At Christ Lutheran, where Mr. Rader, his wife, his mother and his in-laws have been members for 30 years and where Mr. Rader began his elected term as president of the church council in January, the Rev. Michael G. Clark, the pastor, said he was having difficulty grasping the possibility that the man the police arrested on Friday was the same one he knew so well."

<SNIP>

[Catherine Vincent]

38. He may not be a Republican but I'll betcha that murderer voted for Bush!

Anybody checked his car for a W'04 sticker?

[benburch]

39. We know for fact he is a Republican.

Bob Kincaid checked with the county official in charge of elections, and was told that yes, BTK was a Registered Republican, and had been since 1972.

So the fact is not in dispute.

And the fellow confessed, so it isn't even an "alleged" anymore.

[Catherine Vincent]

44. What possessed Bob Kincaid to check what this guy was

registered as? To actually make the call, why would he want to know? Is Kincaid a Dem.?

[benburch]

46. Kincaid is a Liberal talk show host deep in the heart of WV Coal Country.

Intelligent, Literate, and very much a Democrat.

But if you don't believe him, feel free to call and check for yourself.

Personally, I'd trust Bob with anything of mine.

[Catherine Vincent]

51. Oh, I believe him. I don't even know him.

I wasn't doubting him. I just wanted to know why.

[ultraist]

53. I went online the other day and tried to look up his voter registration

But his county BOE site doesn't have this feature that most BOE sites have. I posted about it at the time.

I was curious as to his political affliation and people were speculating he likely was a Repuke because he was a "Christian" boy scout leader and a member of the "Christian" Businessmen group that was politically active.

I also read an old profile on the BTK killer and it was pretty accurate. They predicted that he had served time in the military due to some of his torture techniques.

Environmental factors are important and do influence Sociopathy, even though Sociopathy is largely genetic.

[B Calm]

106. and he's damn good too. Thanks Ben for archiving his show!

[benburch]

122. You are MOST welcome!

Please tell your friends about White Rose!

[ComerPerro]

40. He must have been one of those "values voters"

[Carni]

41. What I want to know is if he had a freeper handle?

Given his credentials he should be one of their long time members!
(and he certainly LOOKS like a freeper faithful!)

[benburch]

42. I invite you to research this.

That, too, would be an interesting bit of the puzzle.

[Catherine Vincent]

45. Those freepers had the nerve to suggest this BTK guy is a DUer.

And look, we're doing the same thing. But at least we have proof he was a repuke. ROTFL!

[benburch]

47. Well, research it.

There is only one truth, and whatever it is, even if it is that he was a DUer, we need to have the truth.

[Catherine Vincent]

52. I don't believe this guy was a DUer.

Unless he was a troll.:-)

[Carni]

110. The guy looks like such a right winger

One look at his photo told me what his political leanings were!

[oasis]

55. All Freepers are not BTK types, but all BTK types ARE Freepers.

It is widely known.

[benburch]

56. Well, I'd like some proof.

See what you can find.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

58. Some of this is about self-defense on our part . . .

When Michael the Savage Weiner is on the air EVERY BLESSED NIGHT declaring "Liberalism is a mental disorder" and when he's soon to come out with a book by the same name, and when freaks like the Reverend Fred Phelps declares that God killed John Edwards' young son as a warning to him (imagine that, God going to all the trouble to create faulty Firestone tires and killing and maiming thousands of Americans just to get a message to John Edwards. Wow! Some god!) and James Dobson declares that WE are destroying America by lacking in God-centered hatred, I think it's incumbent upon us, already so thoroughly chastised regarding the beams in our own eyes, to point out the motes in theirs.

So yeah: let's DO point out that BTK was a "mainstream Republican." And let's point out that Susan Smith's upright, mainstream Republican Christian step-dad started raping her as soon as she got her first period, and that up until 9/11/01 the worst terrorist attack in America was the work of a mainstream conservative.

And, b-t-w: Kincaid IS a democrat. I should know. I'm Kincaid.

[Catherine Vincent]

59. Well hello Kincaid.

Welcome to DU!:hi:

[benburch]

60. Howdy, Chief!

Nice to see you here!

[GrpCaptMandrake]

61. Thanks!

I read DU frequently, but have never gotten around to posting.

Great to take part in the exchange!

[Kingshakabobo]

65. ICE CREAM MANDRAKE, CHILDREN'S ICE CREAM! N/T

WELCOME.. :hi:

[oasis]

71. Susan Smith's rapist stepdad, Beverly Russell a top GOP fundraiser.

There's a ton of sexually repressed right wing fundies out there.

[lonestarnot]

57. GOD ... I was waiting for someone to post this! So he is is he...well I

never would have guessed it LOL

[Genki]

68. Mountaineers Are Always Free

Welcome, my fellow Home Boy. Gotsa love that Brent Benjamin.

[Goldmund]

69. Oh please, what bullshit.

[benburch]

75. But not bullshit... Verifiably true.

I can give you the name of the public servant from whom the information came if yolu doubt this.

What is your agenda here in attacking this fact?

[Goldmund]

78. I'm a Freeper! You caught me!

It's also a verifiable fact that the guy who killed Tupac was black. And the fact that more murders in this country are black-on-black than any other racial combination is much more verifiable than the assertion that most serial killers are Republicans -- which I'm even prepared to believe.

You draw the analogy further.

[benburch]

83. *sigh*

You're either not getting this at all or you are willfully ignoring the point.

This is important because if serial killers with this pattern of killing are most often registered Republicans, it can help law enforcement decide who to spend time investigating in future cases. And I did not make that assertion. I presented in as plain a way as I could the single datum. The rest is your projection onto what I posted.

Now, I'd *like* to know if this is a pattern or not, but I have a very limited data set on the topic of serial killer political affiliation. It does make sense to me that a serial killer who had an authoritarian component in his pattern would be member of whichever political party in his country was the most authoritarian. In the USA that is clearly the GOP.

[Goldmund]

85. Hello?

So now we all, Democrats and Republicans alike, support profiling, which would make some large percentage of the population justifiable suspects?

So we're going to let them do the racial thing, we'll do party-affiliation.

Fucking great.

[benburch]

88. So how would you like law enforcement to deal with such things?

I think you have a knee-jerk reaction to the word "Profiling" because of its misuse in other contexts.

I assure you, in the field of investigating murders, a Profile is considered to be a valuable policing tool.

Or would you rather we never look for patterns in the data about similar sociopath killers that would allow us to perhaps catch them before they kill again?

Perhaps we get homicide detectives Tarot cards instead?

[Goldmund]

90. See my post #86

[benburch]

92. The personal attack? Yeah, I saw it. nt

[Goldmund]

95. A personal attack????

I guess you should report it. If the mods think that constitutes a personal attack, they'll delete it.

[benburch]

96. I don't report such things.

I'd rather they remained forever so everybody else can see the mirror they hold up to their authors.

[DemonFighterLives]

118. I see no problem with profiling

It can help to break a case. It doesn't automatically make a person guilty.
Yeah maybe crystal balls will work in absense of profiling/

[Zuni]

149. criminal profiling is NOT racial profiling

The FBI has a criminal profiling section to look at crime scenes and tell investigators what type of person committed the crime.
It is not racial profiling.
It is based on behavior patterns and when a good profiler, such as John Douglas or Roy Hazelwood writes the profile, it can be VERY accurate. They can tell you if a killer stutters, if he drives an old car, if he had an acne problem as a teenager, Really.

[oasis]

77. After learning about his background, to which party did you think he

belonged? :shrug:

[Goldmund]

79. After hearing about his background, how hung did you think he was?

That thought never really occured to me.

[oasis]

81. It "occured to me" and obviously, to many others on this thread. Could

this be on account of our collective arrested development?

[Goldmund]

82. Oh, now we're doing the "head-count" argument.

Nice.

[oasis]

87. I suppose your post reply #69 is the standard for Harvard's debate team.

"nice" :shrug:

[Goldmund]

89. Nope, but at least it's #69

[oasis]

93. Tsk, tsk.

:evilgrin:

[Carni]

112. Cub scout leader, head of his local Lutheran church

Liked to parade around with a gun in a uniform (of some sort wasn't the moron a dog catcher?)

The fact that his neighbors said he was a huge pain in the ass.

Yeah he definitely sounds like a Republican.

[Selatius]

70. I think you guys are needlessly zeroing in on him being Republican

The profile of a serial killer includes several dozen points of data, of which political party affiliation is only one. If there is a trend toward being Republican, sure, that point is conceded, but conversely, it also goes that just because a person is a serial killer does not mean he is automatically Republican. Taken alone, I do not believe him being Republican or otherwise means much. The only meaningful message one gets occurs when one looks at ALL the data to try to gleam a picture.

You have to look at the whole picture to get any sense, not just one element of the picture.

[benburch]

76. My point is that this was a totally new datum.

Until I posted this, nobody knew that he was a Republican.

Now, as I personally loathe and detest Republicans as much as I loathe and detest Nazis, there is a bit of Schadefreude in being able to say this, but I will just as readily admit that John Wayne Gacy was a Democrat.

[EST]

104. As a matter of almost prurient interest -

a few weeks ago, we were assembling a list of serial killers, rapists, and child molesters-of at least regional notoriety-and digging up their political affiliations. The list had run to many hundreds, when I had to back away to attend other matters. The politics of choice for these jerks was overwhelmingly republican. Fits my pictures. Maybe I can get back to this and see where it leads.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

105. For my part . . .

. . . I "glean" information. Ask a farmer in the Heartland about the "gleaning." We usedta grow grain crops in WV, too, before they started blowing up the mountains. Gotta wonder what the Plains look like with holes in it. "Gotta be somethin' valuable down there!"

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[benburch]

108. Don't let the door hit you. nt

[Carni]

113. Oh my skivs in a wad are they?

Tin foil wasn't needed in figuring out that BTK was probably a Republican.

Most serial killers are middle aged white males.

Most middle aged white males in general have voted Republican for I don't know how many election cylcles.

Kansas is a solidly *red* state.

The BTK guy was a cub scout leader -- cub scouts/ boy scouts has been known to be a rather conservative organization.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[oasis]

115. Take this bumper sticker with you: Guns don't kill people Republicans do.

:hi:

BTW, You are welcome to visit and participate on other threads more to your liking.

[Walt Starr]

130. Looks like your wish has been granted

Dead Freeper

[benburch]

132. Whoa!

I didn't think that was a tombstoning post... He must have done something elsewhere.

[Walt Starr]

135. Most tombstonings on DU are the direct result

of a pattern of behavior rather than any single post.

[oasis]

138. He can now focus on building a defense fund for the killers in the GOP.

:bounce:

[Walt Starr]

109. OUTSTANDING NEWS!!!!!

Now we know for a FACT that the only place we'll hear about his political affiliation is on DU!

We won't be subjected to hours upon hours of talking heads droning on and on about how Demcrats display serial killer tendencies and how evil Democrats must be because BTK was a Democrat.

[Carni]

114. And they would do just that

I was actually being sarcastic about BTK's freeper handle.

He seems the type that would fit right in over there... but I didn't seriously think he was a poster.

[benburch]

123. Walt, you are SO right. nt

[DrGonzoLives]

120. Irrelevant

n/t

[benburch]

121. Impertinant n/t

[HEyHEY]

141. impotent n/t

[benburch]

163. Irreverent nt

[HEyHEY]

177. I got nuthin

[benburch]

188. Except some cool polar bears!

A shame they will be extinct in 30 years. :(

[No Exit]

133. Yoohoo, freep-lurkers! Got it? BTK accused is a REPUBLICAN!!

Since freepers are so fond of looking up the political affiliation of each and every person who is the subject of some awful news story...

[Goldmund]

136. ...we may as well do the same thing!

Yay!

[No Exit]

181. Hey--minorities are entitled to representation!

It's my understanding that here at DU, there is a minority of members who are actually "freepers". This was stated by some people on threads I read early this week. I don't know why freepers would want to join DU, but it appears some of them do.

So, if they think it's important to identify the party affiliation of each and every person who's connected to some awful news story, then this small minority of DU should be allowed to know said party affiliation.

[Cuban_Liberal]

137. Kick for people who can't be bothered to read before posting. n/t

[BlueFlu]

143. Or people who don't have the time to scroll through hundreds...

of pages of threads...

[Cuban_Liberal]

153. It was midway down on Page 1.

It's hardly an insurmountable task to undertake to look at Page 1 before posting a dupe thread.

[ArkDem]

144. Important Stuff.

[foo_bar]

148. he's too small-game to be a GOP leader

"You know, we think if somebody kills someone, that's murder, you go to prison. You kill 10 people, you go to Texas, they hit you with a brick, that's what they do. 20 people, you go to a hospital, they look through a small window at you forever. And over that, we can't deal with it, you know? Someone's killed 100,000 people. We're almost going, "Well done! You killed 100,000 people? You must get up very early in the morning. I can't even get down the gym! Your diary must look odd: “Get up in the morning, death, death, death, death, death, death, death – lunch- death, death, death - afternoon tea - death, death, death - quick shower…

So I suppose we're glad that Pol Pot's under house arrest… you know, 1.7 million people. At least he - we know where he is - under house arrest! Just don't go in that fucking house, you know?"

http://www.auntiemomo.com/cakeordeath/d2ktranscription.html

[theboss]

152. Oy vey

And Charles Manson was a hippie....therefore, all hippies were this close to killing starlets.

[leftofthedial]

155. all mass murderers, rapist and pedophiles are repukes

all of them

it's genetic

[fujiyama]

157. Very interesting fact

and not the least bit surprising. This is the heart of the bible belt. Wichita county went 80%+ for Bush. So it looks like his profile basically fit the norm where he lived.

Now this doesn't prove that most republicans are serial killers, but it looks like many serial killers are republicans.I think it has to do with the authoritarian tendancies. These people seek a power trip.

This might not present any sort of useful causation, but it certainly is an interesting correlation. Then again, I suppose another way of looking at it is that the BTK is a murderer voting for another murderer (the latter obviously has a much higher body count).

[Helga Scow Stern]

158. I read his story on the Court TV website

and all the while I kept thinking, I just bet he's a Republican.

[usregimechange]

160. Source?

[benburch]

162. Commissioner of Elections of Sedgwick County, Kansas

His name is Bill Gale.

You'll have to look up his phone number for yourself.

[B Calm]

167. I'll bet the women who sliced the unborn child

from the dead women's womb (who she strangled) and claimed it as her own, was a republican too.

[benburch]

169. I don't think that is fair at all!

We have no basis for that one.

[DemonFighterLives]

170. Olberman mentioned it

Listing all this fellas good attributes including a registered republican. I guess the question was how could such a good fella be so bad? Dark secrets in the closet. Reminds me of some others. *

[FunkyLeprechaun]

173. Shoot...

I wanted to recommend but it says I don't have enough posts yet... how many to recommend and how many to post a topic?

Anyway, I wanted to say that this is very interesting since I read a lot of crime books and especially on CrimeLibrary

What about others like John Allen Muhammad (the sniper from 3 years ago) or even Jack the Ripper (I know he's British but would he have been Republican)?

[DemonFighterLives]

176. Hang in there

Welcome to DU!

[NCN007]

174. What does that have to do with anything?

Is this what we have been degraded to? Cheap comparisons between republicans and homicidal maniacs?

[FunkyLeprechaun]

175. It's just an interesting...

correlation... I don't know if it's necessarily true but what I've read on this thread is a little bit too hard to ignore.

I'm not trying to slam you but I don't know if you could call it a cheap comparison.

I would say that Environmentalists could most likely be Democrat, Christian Evangelists could most likely be Republican.

It's an interesting idea, not a cheap comparison. You should watch that Dayle Hinman show on the CourtTv channel to get the idea bout criminal profiling.

[benburch]

178. No. Thats not what this is.

This is the F-A-C-T that this homicidal maniac was a Republican.

[Judi Lynn]

182. Hi, benburch. They felt it was important enough to mention on Kansas City

tv news on Tuesday evening. I don't understand how anyone could not grasp your meaning. It's perfectly clear.

Ideological differences cloud someone's reasoning, it would seem! The more you hear about this specimen, the more he DOES sound like the congenitally anal person who would become one of the most intractable Republicans.
You're not just howling in the wind. You're right on target.

[benburch]

183. Thanks, Judi

It's felt a lot like "piling on" here lately.

[oasis]

180. We will seize upon what's fair game out there and push it down the throat

of the opposition. Those faint-of-heart do gooders who insist on taking what they perceive is the "high road" will not move us to do otherwise.

[benburch]

184. Fair enough.

But I think using the truth as a weapon is ALWAYS the high road.

[oasis]

185. The truth is "hell" to some folks. That's what Harry Truman believed and

so do I. Throughout the next four years I intend on giving Republicans hell.

[benburch]

186. Amen, brother.

I'm hoping that we don't have to send some of them to hell by express...

[Goldmund]

189. So do I.

But I intend to use strong "weapons", not flimsy ones like this.

:)

[oasis]

190. To each his own. Count me on board when your "strong weapon" turns up.

:thumbsup:

[benburch]

191. Would you care to illuminate us?

What weapons would you think are strong enough?

[Goldmund]

192. Let me rephrase, then

1) You're naive if you think this hurts Republicans;
2) This kind of a witch-hunting mentality, if adopted by us instead of opposed, would -- in the long run -- help Republicans;
3) I thought that this fact interested you because you were into law enforcement techniques, no?

[benburch]

193. In order.

1) Of course not. Sufficient to annoy them.
2) And the witch hunting mentality adopted by the Republicans against us? When will that start to hurt them?
3) Yes. But the debate on this has been so vociferous, and the hate mail I've received so pointed, that I must have hit a nerve, and this gives me a great deal of sadistic pleasure.
4) Did I mention that Republicans smell bad, too? ;)

[Goldmund]

194. "Did I mention that Republicans smell bad, too?"

Let's end this discussion on that note of total agreement. :)

[oasis]

195. With the possible exception of Bo Derek. But I'll get back to you on that.

;-)