Discussion about the biggest problem at our days: Money

[SittingBull]

I wonder if here were people who know about the problem as well as we in Germany.

For first discussion basis you should read in the Website of Hans Eisenkolb, which can be found here:

http://www.sunshinecable.com/~eisehan/

Most of our today problems came from fiat money and its kind of birth as debt, and the force to pay interests on it as so called seignorage.
The force to growth, the only for short-time looking investions,
the growth of the poor and the feed of the rich, and last but not least the system problems as inflation or deflation, recession and steadily growing un-employment.


Nobody have money, because you wouldn't find new people who will make new debts.
Even at sero interests level.

And we have to understand, that almost every man is a loser in our system. You're only a winner, if you earn as much as you pay for the collective interest-debts. They hidden in all prices, is was not only a problem of the debitors theirselfs.

In todays business science the problem was ignored, by declaring money in the modells as neutral. But todays money isn't neutral.
But we can create such money.
If only enough people know about the problems.

The solution is to create money with a fee.
German-Argentinian salesman Sylvio Gesell had first the look on this issue and the idea of this solution.
Since that, a lot of people make this idea practicable and better,
In Germany we call it Freiwirtschaft and Freigeld, in English maybe to translate as "neutral money"

We have a lot material on german, but not so much in English.

[strategery blunder]

1. Freigeld=a combination of the words 'frei' and 'Geld'

which translates into "free money"

Oooh, I want some!:evilgrin:

/end of spamming this thread:evilgrin:

[SittingBull]

9. OK!

Free Money?

Even this was worth a short explanation.
You will always have to work for money. If Money was for free, it would have no worth and was meaningless. And you couln’t buy anything for it.
Money represent a Achievement.
Our problem nowatdays was, that the achievment-less Requirements of the interests debts increase exponentially. You are not able to work aginst these requirements, and because of this the mass of the people get poorer.
But: The old dream of becoming a winner in this bloody system was are fake. It doesn’t work, if everyone becomes a millionaire.
So, if money was neutral, is was much more cheaper and will goes round much easier.
You have not to work against a system-self-destruction exponentially function.

Question: Does anybody see money work?

It becomes children, the compound interests, but where came them from?

[strategery blunder]

13. I think "/end of spamming this thread" made it clear that I was joking n/t

[SittingBull]

15. Sure

but I'll have always the last word.

And it was an often misused argument against Freemoney.
Like: Why don't you lend me money for neutral interests...
Quite clear: I will lost money, if I have to pay interests for it...

[Nimrod]

2. Interesting

I'll admit, I don't understand money. I have no idea how it works. I get the whole "I give you a particular green piece of paper and you give me a gallon of milk" concept, but beyond that I am at a complete loss - and I've got an accounting degree.

99% of money is imaginary. It doesn't exist. Nobody ever actually sees these billions that move around. Nobody knows what it gets spent on (IF it's even possible to spend something imaginary).

All I know is if you don't have enough imaginary money to hand over to every fuckwad in a tie who sticks his hand out, you get punished.

[SittingBull]

3. It is no coincidence

that nearly everone don't understand money.

Henry Ford says:

If the people understand how money works,
we have a revolution before the break of tomorrow

[northamericancitizen]

4. Never been very good with # . They bore me anyway.

To me money has never been neutral. In fact, when I had a business I cared more about the # of people who knew me in town than the deficit we had. Money ment fame. Buying it anyway.

This was a while ago...

Today monay means surviving physically in order to live freely.

I still have that killer instinct that comes from feeling rich...

I am just more carefull how I use.

Lise

[SittingBull]

6. Money ment everything

thats because we don't reflect about it.

We are money slaves and can't recognize this, because money experience is always positive, for sure, if you had someone.

99 % of all people wouldn't see a problem with money, or, tell that there can be a better Use of it if you act with high morality.

Thats nonsens.

How can you use a thing in a good way, if its character was bad and evil with its creation, and noboby knows about it?

[Nimrod]

16. That's the truth

The basic concept behind the use of money is a sensible one. Rather than lugging around gold, or silver, or cows, or vegetables, or women, or whatever and trying to trade them for a shirt, you have an easily carried note that represents that value. It does make sense.

The problem begins when money becomes non-understandable and invisible. As a simple example: If somebody handed you a wad of $100 bills big enough to choke a camel, your eyes would drop out of your head. However dropping $30,000 on a car is commonplace, and with interest you're potentially paying THREE times that or more. But the auto industry is booming because that money is invisible and imaginary - out of sight out of mind.

This imaginary money is how the elite have managed to quietly gather so much of it for themselves. You pay your overpriced medical insurance and think nothing of it - maybe a grumble here and there. But if you saw the CEO of Blue Cross doing a Scrooge McDuck into mountains of solid cash while you're struggling to pay bills, THAT would be a whole different story.

Now just imagine how many dump trucks it would take to carry a billion dollars. Now just imagine if * had to drive those down the street in full view of the public before he could dump them into his war for that afternoon.

Wow.

[KingoftheJungle]

5. This is my grand philosophy on money and society...

That society is an organism we have created. Society is a living being on a higher "level" than us but far less sophisticated due to its relatively recent "birth"

Humans, and life, and everything in the universe needs "energy" to keep on doing whatever it does. "Energy" is defined as the potential to create change. In atoms, energy is needed to form covalent bonds to create molecules. In life, cells use ATP to produce change. In society, our form of energy is money. Money changes ownership of items, pays for services that either build or destroy, and lobbies for changes in law (among many others).

The problem I see, and this is a very simplistic view of the situation (as I will readily admit I know next to nothing about monetary systems or finance), is that the powers that be are starving the organism of society by consolidating wealth (and thus power) into a insular minority that cannot possibly serve any interests other than its own. In order for society to evolve, we must evolve our concept of what society is. It is an organism, and in order for an organism to live it must have energy readily available to produce "change" and sustinence for the entire being. Money needs to go where energy is needed to both sustain the organism's survival and advance its evolution so that its survival is both more efficient and longer lasting. I doubt we are at a stage yet were this level of efficiency can be obtained, but we need to start working on it soon before society completely dies and takes us with it.

[northamericancitizen]

7. I agree with you . Well explained. Ty

[Festivito]

8. Hmmm. A stable currency based on the Canadian dollar!

The USD is stock in the belief in America, and its decisions. Thus its relative world value rises and falls measured against other world currencies based on economic conditions of politics and production in America compared to the same in other countries.

The Gogo would be stock in what? It would not be stable, it would rise and fall with the Canadian dollar. Or, it would rise and fall depending on how many were printed.

The underlying truth of all things is simple: The only thing we have is TRUST. You own a house? Why? Because you have some papers? Only if the police TRUST your papers. Only if your opponent TRUSTS the police, and if the police TRUST the judges, and they, the legislators, and they, the vote, and the counters, and the voters, and the voter information source, and and and.

If our president in America promotes jobs as did Clinton and justice as did Clinton after the WTC was bombed hunting down catching convicting and sentencing those responsible, our dollar rises.

If our president in America promotes tax cuts while spending more making a huge scary debt, and when the WTC is destroyed ignoring the country that supplied the hijackers, then failing to catch the head and bring that head to justice, our dollar falls.

As trust falls, currency falls. People trust in justice responsibility. And a currency that promotes these ideas, is trusted, and its value increases.

And, the dollar is falling, taking the Canadian dollar with it.

[SittingBull]

10. My reply

The USD is stock in the belief in America, and its decisions. Thus its relative world value rises and falls measured against other world currencies based on economic conditions of politics and production in America compared to the same in other countries.

The Gogo would be stock in what?

*Stock with the achievements of your local economy and the trust in your local companies.
The local companies are the creators of the Gogos.
They fullfill the achievment-Requirements. Not in God we trust, in your local backery or other company we trust.

It would not be stable, it would rise and fall with the Canadian dollar. Or, it would rise and fall depending on how many were printed.

*Don’t let Hans hear this! He has create the Gogo stable with the worth of Canadian Dollar of 1980. In the future it was not necessary to depend it on a fiat money.


The underlying truth of all things is simple: The only thing we have is TRUST. You own a house? Why? Because you have some papers? Only if the police TRUST your papers. Only if your opponent TRUSTS the police, and if the police TRUST the judges, and they, the legislators, and they, the vote, and the counters, and the voters, and the voter information source, and and and.

*I agree. If the trust was destroyed, the money was worthless. And if you look closely, you can regognize that’s the fact today. Like you mentioned.
The main reason for the worth is, that you have to pay taxes in the form of money- and all of your life-based functions were capitalized with this money. It’s like the Mafia-principle.

[SittingBull]

11. Link

for another neutral money:

http://www.libertydollar.org/

[Festivito]

14. Gold and Silver works, until the insurance fails.

Gold is going up. Great. BUT, big BUT, who holds the gold when I have a pretty piece of paper? Do I trust that holder? Is the insurance company big enough? Is the insurance PAID?

What happens when the policy lapses, for whatever reason, just as the CEO moves to Brazil. Conspiracy theorists would say: "This is more than a coincidence." ..those wacky conspiracy theorists.. "By the way, too bad about your money!" There will be NOTHING there to value to currency.

Here, the people of our US, stand behind our dollar. (Sadly, with bad government sometimes we are forced to stand in front of it - Yikes!) Our weak democratic Republic can choose a new course, and offer the chance of keeping ourselves alive.

The GOGO money is even funnier. Not even backed with gold. Instead, backed with economic principles called "sound" by the people who make those wacky conspiracy theorists cringe. Economic theories are a dime a dozen, and they are not even worth that much even though you can pay more for them. I don't have trust in gold nor economic principles as much as I have trust in my fellow world inhabitants.

I do have trust in the love of God, irrelevent as that is on money. I also trust that the love of money will not lead to a good place. Again it is people I trust, not money itself.

It's been fun pontificating my friend. Be sure to wake me up before you gogo. (I'm not a believer in going solo.)

[northamericancitizen]

12. Tu y va pas avec le dos de la cuillère jeune homme !!!

Translation: Fuck, man, you're heavy. Chill out or cool down.

Respectfully L.P