America yawns as Kyoto Protocol kicks in today.

[Swede]

Mr. Bush sneers.

A world plan to fight global warming has come into force, feted by its backers as a lifeline for the
planet amid sniping at the United States for pulling out.

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=5543103

[airfoil]

1. Bush wasn't the first...

...to sneer at Kyoto. 95 senators and Clinton sneered at it too.

If you worry about outsourcing of US jobs today and nuclear power, then you should be really worried about Kyoto because Kyoto is structured to economically favor developing nations and nations that get their power cleanly from nuclear power plants.

If the Green movement of the 70's and 80's hadn't been so vocal in the US, then we'd have switched much of our power generation to nuclear and would easily be able to meet Kyoto numbers.

France is 70% nuclear today and enjoys electricty generation costs that are 1/3 the costs of coal in the US. Other nations in the EU also benefit extensively from nuclear power

But there was such a scare here in the US that it forced us to rely increasingly on coal, which has bumped our CO2 emission levels up. The US is also vast geographically, requiring us to spend more on oil to move about the country.

[newyawker99]

2. Hi airfoil!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Swede]

3. Actually I am worried about the enviroment.

You may have heard of global warming.

[airfoil]

4. But Kyoto isn't free...

Who isn't worried sick about the environment? My attitudes have changed a lot over the last 20 years, and I'm sick that we didn't take the nuclear route 20+ years ago.

We've put ourself in a nasty pickle for sure.

Of course everyone wants Kyoto if it is free. But it isn't free. Estimates put it at 20-100 Iraq wars. How much would Kyoto have to cost for you to think "hmmm, maybe there are better things to spend the money on"? Remember there are still people dying in this world from diarhea and starvation. They aren't too worried about a 2 degree rise in temperature. For us to spend 30 Trillion dollars to ensure that temperatures don't increase by 2 degrees over the next 20 years while folks die of thirst is a crime.

[Swede]

5. How much would it cost if New York and LA and London are flooded?

Read something besides rightwing propaganda on this please.

[airfoil]

10. That's crazy talk...

Kyoto has a simple goal: limit greenhouse gases. In particular, limit CO2 to 550 PPM. The impact on temperature is certainly open to debate, but generally scientists believe this limit will help reduce the temperature of the earth by less than 2 degree C.

I haven't heard anybody state that Kyoto will prevent NY from flooding.

Let me flip the question back to you: How much shoudl we as a society spend to limit the temperature rise to 2 degrees in your estimation? I'm looking for a number so that I can gauge your seriousness.

Your sense of preservation for NYC is interesting. But my guess is that you aren't open to spending every dime we have to protect major US cities from disasters due to terrorists, are you?

[Swede]

11. It's not crazy talk. Open your eyes,it's happening.

Milder winters,cooler summers, polar ice melting. Google it. A rise of a couple degrees rises the sea levels a couple feet. How many people will be displaced?

[airfoil]

12. Eyes wide open I assure you.

Remember that ice used to cover much of North America and Europe. It has been melting since the coldest day of the ice age.

Do you believe the current warming we are seeing is unique? In other words, do you believe we haven't seen this level of warming before on Earth?

Do you believe ocean levels have rising significnatly in the last 100 years?

[Blue_Tires]

6. americans can't and won't be concerned about it

as long as there is cheap gas, and little incentive to be more environmentally conscious

[ailsagirl]

7. I sure as hell am concerned about it!!!

I read that 51% of *'s supporters believe he's FOR the Kyoto Treaty...

[Piperay]

8. I heard that too and

they actually think that the USA signed Kyoto! :eyes:

[ailsagirl]

9. "Gross cognitive dissonance!"