Can a liberal have a true friendship with a conservative fundie?

[youthere]

Is it possible? I ask because I have a friend who is a strict pentecostal-innerant Bible-abortion is murder-homosexuality is a sin-
yadda yadda yadda...
We've known each other for a long time (about 13 years), and I gotta say that basically she's a nice person, although she has gotten more conservative as time has gone on. She's funny and would do help you anyway that she could. She's never tried to push her views (ie: convert me) on me and vice versa. We know where we each stand. But I've been thinking lately..She stands for and supports everything I vehemently oppose and disdain. We have completly opposite values and I have to tell you that it's beginning to bother me more and more. Am I compromising my principals and values by keeping this friendship? Is it possible to stay friends or are we just biding our time until we have a blow out?

[demnan]

1. I go back and forth on this

with a friend of mine. Of course it's possible. One thing is certain, no good will come of shutting off dialogue, so hang in there.

[Maat]

13. I'm right there with you, demnan.

As to both relatives and 'friends.'

I bet that quite a few of us are struggling with this right now.

All I can say is, I keep the dialog open, but the contact has lessened with each one of them, gradually going further downhill, as time has gone on, since about six months to a year before the election.

Oh, well. I do not see significant healing in the future - I predict things will get much worse before they get better.

On edit:
Those 'friends' have basically now become 'acquaintances,' and my husband now interfaces with the relatives. He's a bigger person than I (both literally and figuratively - ).

[pelagius]

2. You can be friends with anyone...

...and not let the differences get in the way. You may very well have a blow out, but maybe its worthwhile to understand where she's coming from. There is a logic of sorts to fundiethink that's worth knowing about.

Compromising your principles would be to go along with every fool thing she says without comment. It sounds like you can be honest with each other and that's good.

One warning: depending on her church, she may be strongly encouraged to cut off a friendship with you (or any other "unbeliever") to keep herself untainted. It's a standard fundie control tactic.

[Texasgal]

3. Ofcourse it's possible!

When we start living our lives completely on our political views, we've lost it.

Let me ask you something hypothetical... say an older Woman is having her purse snatched outside a local grocery store, she screams "HELP!" Do you go and help her? Or so you ask her what her political affiliation is first? <------ just trying to make a point.

I think you can still be friends, leave the politics out of it.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

4. I have a good friend that's a fundie

She's pretty liberal on economic issues and genuinely cares about the poor, but on social issues, watch out! She is anti-abortion in every case, anti-gay unions, and is the type who always trys to convert people to fundamentalist Christianity. She thinks that anyone who hasn't accepted Jesus Christ will be in hell. That being said, she's a very nice girl and as long as we don't talk religion or politics we get along fine.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

14. I know two people, a he and a she....

who are both liberal/semi-socialist on economic issues and pro-choice, but they voted for Busholini because he "made us safer"!

:wtf:?

[UdoKier]

5. That's a friendly acquaintance, not a friendship.

To me, a friendship is a comeraderie based on trust, shared values, and years of comfortable familiarity.

I could hang out with a fundie once in a while, and maybe even have a pleasant conversation with them.


But to me, most fundies are utterly morally bankrupt. Their values are based on cherry-picked scripture rather than the basic tenet of liberalism which is the golden rule: "Do unto others as you would have done unto you."


I wouldn't trust a fundie any further than I can throw them. The majority I have known have been self-centered, self-righteous FLAKES.

I can be friends with liberals of all stripes and apolitical folks with lib tendencies.

The moment somebody starts swooning over Ayn Rand or Nietzsche, or how "frivolous lawsuits" are ruining America, I lose interest in maintaining their companionship.

[Lisa0825]

10. exactly. (nt)

[bryant69]

6. Much of life is biding time

At least that gives her a chance of coming around.

What you need to analyze is why it bothers you. I have a conservative / libertarian friend (who doesn't like the fundies, but does think that most government programs should be eliminated and he supported the invasion of Iraq), and it bothers me that he doesn't seem to care about the cost of his ideas being paid by the poor and others.

But in our case it helps that we talk about politics constantly, and I can see that he does respect my opinions as I respect his (will usually disagreeing with them).

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[youthere]

21. I think you got right to the point..

Why does this bother me. I believe the answer is that I don't respect her anymore. I think I did as long as she was only "a little" conservative. Does that make sense to anyone?

[BOSSHOG]

YES

I have some very good friends and we know each others political views. We get along great as long as we never discuss politics. It is an unwritten but extremely powerful rule of engagement. We peacefully coexist. If politics were ever to enter into our camaraderie, friendships would evaporate instantly. I guarantee that.

[FreedomAngel82]

52. That's how it is in my family

We don't talk politics or religion because it could just cause fights. I know if someone ever brought up politics in my family (being the only democrat) I'd piss off. Heh heh. And my family means too much to me. I give my immediate family (parents and brother) news and jokes and things like that but I don't discuss politics with them. I have gotten my Dad to watch the "Daily Show." :) So it's a step. My brother is pretty much anti-Bush and my Mom voted Kerry so I'm in a househould that's three to one (blah).

[GalleryGod]

7. IMHO-Nope.

:argh: Way beyond my abilities

[Stop_the_War]

8. No

[More Than A Feeling]

9. My cousin is a pentacostal preacher

we have wonderful discussions on politics and religion (him: everything you described/ me: the opposite)

We keep it civil and respectful, and there have been no problems.

[verdalaven]

11. I also had a friend like that, emphasis on the word HAD

During the last months of the 2004 election I decided that I couldn't continue the friendship. She was no longer a real conservative anymore, but a wild-eyed anti-anything-Dem ranting radical. She believes Bush is the second coming, god's appointed, annointed, and can do no wrong. It is really sad, because we used to have the greatest conversations.

You know what is really ironic? Much of the crap she fowarded to me before Nov 2nd was from GOPUSA and Talon news. Good god, life can be funny sometimes.

[youthere]

33. I think this is why this bothers me so much..

our conversations have become so shallow. We used to be able to get into these wonderful deep conversations about everything and now it seems as though we are (both) walking on eggshells around each other. We stick to the safe stuff. The weather. Recipes. Funny things the kids say. Funny things the husbands say. MM good cofee don't you think? What a nice tote bag-stuff like that. I don't get the feeling that she's pulling away, but I know that I have been because the depth of our friendship is no longer there. I want to be respectful of her faith-even if I don't agree with it but I sometimes feel as though I'm compromising. I understand a lot of the motivations behind her beliefs, I'm just having difficulty respecting them and that's just not okay.

[ET Awful]

12. Not this liberal :)

I can't speak for anyone else though.

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. Yes, because, much as it may appear differently here on DU, politics

is not my entire life. I have a few conservative friends and we just leave politics out of it. :hi:

[Mr Blonde]

22. Friendship is a gift

Of course it's possible. But it depends on the specific workings of the relationship. If you really care about each other as human beings, have a genuinely good rapport, and most of all, respect each other, than why shouldn't it work? If one of those things aren't in place, then politics may just be the straw man to break the friendship apart. But again, respect is key. If you feel respected, and you are secure in your views, why would you cast this otherwise good person out for disagreeing with you? I'm a music lover, and I've had friends that liked awful bands, that doesn't stop me from being friends with them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

24. Agreed, Mr Blonde, and welcome to DU.

:toast: :hi:

[Mr Blonde]

30. Thank you

It's good to be here.

[Dark]

16. If you're gay or an abortion doctor, probably not.

but otherwise, it can exist.

[noonwitch]

17. As long as both people have a sense of humor, yes

I have a good friend and coworker who is a Rush fan. We rip on each other and make jokes about each other's political choices.

He was absolutely shocked, however, when I made a Clinton joke during the impeachment hearings. We were having an open house for our new office, and he walked into the lunchroom when I was blowing up balloons. He asked me what I was doing, which was obvious. I told him I was preparing for my presidential internship. I'm now kind of known around the workplace for that comment.

He teases me about Clinton, I tease him about Rush the junkie or Bush the monkey. It's all good-natured fun because we both have a sense of humor.

[Balbus]

39. Those are usually the best kind of friends!

Everybody has differences, but to be able to laugh together about those differences is a special closeness :)

[FreedomAngel82]

53. That's very sweet

It shows you guys are truly friends and don't let things come between you. I'm a very emotional type person so I usually keep things seperate. A good long time friend of mine once asked me who I was voting for this past election and I told her I was voting for John Kerry. Immediately she said he was a flipflopper and I almost went off. I just said sternly "no he isn't" and she went silent. I guess she figured where I stud eh? Heh heh.

[ClayZ]

18. My righyt 30 year old nephew blocked my emails

the little shit! I am the one who bought his first guitar, and cleaned up the chunks of hot dog hurl he puked on my carpet when he was 8. He has a degree in journalism and is a poet singer/songwriter and country band. I had sent the poem "A Moment of Silence",http://www.kersplebedeb.com/mystuff/s11/silence.html
He accused me of lobing a pile of Anti American Crap at him.

I have sent him poems for years in the email.

His mother, my sister, later told me, "He is sensitive". Argh.. I AM SENSITIVE, said I and last time I looked at my birth certificate, it said I was born here.

I love him, the little shit! Guess I will have to use snail mail. heh heh!

Yup bu$h is a divider, not a uniter....

:cry:

[natrat]

19. definitly if politics is not part of it

i respect fundies who have there own little religous worlds in a vacume w/ no pat robertson creeps involved

[kiraboo]

20. I've had fundie friends and acquaintances. But the older I get

the less interest I have in maintaining relationships with these people. First, real fundies try to convert you. Avoiding religion in a conversation is virtually impossible and eventually I get discouraged enough to avoid even a sweet person if s/he must constantly make reference to her relationship with Jesus. Second, consider the question of differing values. I think that's a symptom of the fact that the fundies and I process the same information in a completely different manner. One can't help but notice that the fundie by definition has a narrow outlook which inevitably excludes people who appreciate the nuance - the shades of grey - the uncertainties - inherent in human existence. I don't want or need to know all the answers. I enjoy the search. You might say the search is the mission of my life. The fundie has already found the answers. I find it unappealing and non-intellectual. In other words, I find it silly, stupid and often boring.

[youthere]

25. I wonder if this isn't what's happening between us.

I know that she is getting more and more wrapped up in her church (AOG) and she makes reference to her belief more and more often. She's never openly witnessed to me (maybe it is because she knows that I also am a Christian-albeit a liberal one). I find that I am resenting our time together more and more rather than enjoying it so I've been questioning whether I am becoming more close minded or she is.

[kiraboo]

29. In my case I am willing to acknowledge that it's partly my problem.

Especially since the Shrub was elected I am hypersensitive to religious pressure. That's me. But on the other hand, I am growing. I've already checked out fundamentalism and it's not for me. I'm headed in one direction, and my best friend of old days is headed in another. Perhaps this is your situation, in which case you must not necessarily assign blame, but regretfully own your differences.

[FreedomAngel82]

54. Fundies aren't supposed to convert

you're supposed to do that on your own. Sure as a Christian you can talk to people if they're interested but God gave us freewill. I hate people who go straight out to convert people. It's just so...rude and unChrist like.

[barb162]

23. Only if you stay off politics and other issues that abut politics.

My girlfriend is like this, she has become more conservative and I know somewhere along the line there will be a blowup. She lives a thousand miles from here so we mostly write but i have to be careful to stay off all hint of where I stand.

[Vektor]

26. I guess it's possible but not easy.

I had a friend through college whom I got along famously with, and never knew anything about her politics. We were lab partners and great friends, and had a blast together. Recently, shortly after the election, I saw her and we got to talking. I found out she was a Republican, and supported Shrub and had the "Democrats need to get over it" mentality. She then went on to say that when I "get older and have kids, I will become less liberal and will not want to 'hand my money out to everyone' - but will instead say 'it's mine and I want to keep it.'"

Further conversation revealed to me she had no clue about the reality of Bush, or Kerry for that matter, and knew only what FOX news told her. She didn't even know any of the basics about the issues.

I told her that if having kids would cause me to become a greedy elitist, I'd refrain from making that mistake. How much wealth one hoards in their lifetime isn't worth two shits after they die, and that I would be happy to spend my life giving any extra I could to help my fellow man, because that legacy of charity and goodwill would live on after I'm gone, but her greed would perish with her, and thank god for that. I also added that I got a lot more enjoyment out of life by helping others and contributing to society than I did from stuffing money in my mattress and gloating over my pile.

She then went on to say that I probably disliked Bush because "his take charge nature intimidated a lot of people."

I doubled over with laughter, and once I started breathing again, told her that I didn't find Bush the least bit "intimidating", but more like scary - in the same way a deranged circus monkey, wearing an organ grinder hat, armed with a rocket launcher and a canister of the Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever virus would be scary. I added that "her people" probably didn't like Kerry because his superior intellect, through the roof I.Q., academic achievement, heroic war record, imposing height, terminally sexy voice, kick-ass hair, 20+ years of foreign policy experience, and that persistent little rumor of his gargantuan manhood intimidated a lot of people, especially draft dodgers, the sexually insecure, and the socially ignorant.

That pretty much ended her tirade of delusion.

I haven't had any desire to see her again, and quite frankly, found her smug cluelessness to be the deal breaker. It was fun while it lasted, but once I saw what she really stood for, I had no use for her company.

Good luck with your friend - maybe if she is such a nice person, she will be more tolerable. Maybe with your help, she can also become more enlightened. I hope it works out.

[youthere]

37. LOL you forgot to mention

Kerry's incredibly tight posterior.

[Vektor]

44. DAMN IT!

I will need to break the "code of silence" and send her a photo of it, and a little essay about its firm, liberal hotness.

"Furthermore, LOOK AT THIS ASS!!!!"

HAHAHAHA

[FreedomAngel82]

55. I've had people tell me

that when I get older I'll be more republican as well. I was like "yeah right." Then how are there able to be democratic president's, congressmen, senators? That logic just goes out the window. If all republicans have this whole "moral value" thing wouldn't they want to give to the poor? Doesn't the Bible teach you about greed and whatnot? At least in my Bible it does... Christ taught a lot about giving to the poor.

[Az]

27. I have managed to maintain some interesting relationships

With very strong fundamentalists while discussing such strident matters as their belief. Its really a question of taking it very carefully and not forcing opinions on one another.

[Walt Starr]

28. If I was in your shoes, I would cut her off without a word

When asked, simply state you cannot continue a friendship with somebody who supports what you consider to be evil.

But that's me.

[Demeter]

31. Only If One or Both are 3 years old.

Come on! Pull the other one!

[leftofthedial]

32. only after the fundy is dead

it's like having a relationship with the Ebola virus

[youthere]

34. LOL.

Now that was funny.

[Vektor]

35. HAHAHAHA

See my post # 26 - funny how the mere mention of Fundies prompted both of us to think of the Ebola virus.

[leftofthedial]

36. great minds . . .

:toast:

[Vektor]

38. Indeed!

:hi:

[youthere]

40. I like the visual of the

organ grinder chimp. Bush should start wearing funny hats.

[Vektor]

43. He should...

they would suit him so well.

[deadparrot]

41. Believe me, where I come from, you can't

swing a dead cat without hitting a *very* well-off, *very* Catholic neoconservative. My grandfather, open of the sweetest, most loving men I know, is one, along with many of my friends. While I cannot repect them in their choice of a president, I also keep in mind that they don't delve deeper than what they're told by the media.

We mostly leave politics out of out conversations, but when it does come up, I simply use a number of the following statements, "The man proudly states that he doesn't read the newspaper. He is a fundamentalist Christian who hates Catholics and Catholicism, along with any other faith that is not his own. He lied about a war that has killed almost 1500 Americans soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqis. As governor of Texas, he executed the metally retarded. He has lost the United States any measure of respect we once had in the world. Abortions are up after years of decline in the Clinton years, education is failing with a policy that isn't working, we have over 40 million Americans, many of them children, without health insurance, yet he ignores it. That's why I don't support him. I'm sorry if you disagree."

[Woody Wood]

42. yes

I see politics as business. I don't inject it into my personal life.

[merh]

45. It is very difficult.

The quality of the friendship, the depth of the connection is definitely affected!

[ginnyinWI]

46. it depends on the person

On the one hand it is good to be proud to be a Democrat. And we will be in the majority again, hopefully in the not to distant future! There is nothing wrong with being one and being happy to say so. Part of our identity is as Dems, so we are empowered by being open about it (not unlike being openly gay, I would imagine). The more who are open about their political leanings, the more we are legitimized.

On the other hand, some relationships can't exist unless political talk is supressed. Like relationships with relatives: you can't choose your relatives, and have to get along somehow. I have promised myself that around my fundy RW parents, nothing inside my head is going to get past my lips, whatever they say to me! I'll listen, I'll even ask a pointed question or two, but that's it. My motto to myself is, "Don't scare the children" because that is what they are, and I don't want to give my Dad a stroke, in any case. We've had our heated discussions and gotten exactly nowhere, except that I got insulted as to my intelligence and sanity.
Some people are just going to stay in the 35-40% of those firmly in the rightie camp, unless something earth-shattering happens to make them question their most fundamental beliefs.

[begin_within]

47. Only a superficial friendship, not a deep or close one.

[youthere]

50. And there I think I have the answer.

An earlier poster(s) said this as well. It's so simple. Although we might have been close and true friends at one time I think our religion and politics have led us to become merely acquaintances. Sad really. I can accept a friendly acquaintance, a superficial friendship. I just have to grieve the loss of our meaningful friendship first.Sad really.

[begin_within]

59. I have one friend who I have known for 14 years, and we have become

fairly good friends in some ways, but he is a right-wing, NRA, Charlton Heston type, and any time politics comes up I just ignore it or change the subject quickly. We can get along fine as long as there is no political discussion at all. So it is a type of friendship, but made very limited by that. After 14 years of it I have just accepted that and accepted it for what it is and all it can ever be, just a partial friendship.

[geniph]

48. Neither of you will ever be able to talk about issues close to your heart

which makes for kind of a superficial friendship, I think. You both hold views the other finds deeply morally repugnant - generally the only way to keep from either arguing or actually calling the other person immoral, inhumane, whatever, is not to talk about it. Depending on how much your personal political and religious views mean to each of you, that may well mean that you are left with little of any substance to constitute conversation between you.

So my short answer - no, not really. One can maintain a pleasant acquaintance with such a person, but a friend to whom one cannot talk about issues dear to one's heart is not really a friend.

[FreedomAngel82]

49. I think it's possible

As long as you guys agree to disagree on certain issues and you don't both force things on each other. Just becareful of what you say to your friend. And maybe you can help her see the light (so to speak). ;)

[ProfessorGAC]

51. I Couldn't

I can't see how we would be intellctually compatible. It's not a matter of me judging them. It's a matter of me not being able to understand, as i sit here thinking about it, how we'd be friends in the first place.

It might be possible to be civil acquantices. But, that's not really friendship.

So, for me, the answer would be no.
The Professor

[Silverhair]

56. Depends on how you handle it.

There is more to life than politics. I have several good friends who are on the opposite side of the fence, and we do talk politics. However, we don't argue politics. It is possible to calmly discuss things that you feel deeply about. I love such discussions. I hate arguments however.

Don't cut off the friendship over politics.

[MsTryska]

57. for myself - i can't be friends

with someone who doesn't hold my values.


specifically the love thy neighbor values.

[Neoma]

58. It'd be boreing quick

as for me if i had a republicain friend, i'd sorta errm, have nothing to talk about. and talking would lead to talking about religion or politics and s/he would become a foe quick.
but thats me. :)

[elshiva]

60. Next to impossible for me.

I'm very shy and don't like to offend people so I only am friends with people who agree with me 95% of the time.