Who else besides me refuses to fly because of the ridiculous color codes?

[liberalhistorian]

I absolutely REFUSE to fly ANY airline at all until this fascist, totalitarian, ludicrous, nutball, absurd, shades-of-a-police-state color-coding system is totally and thoroughly discredited and SCRAPPED FOR GOOD!

This system uses almost all of the information about you that is available in order to determine your "security risk" and assign you a color in accordance with your level of risk. This information includes criminal and civil records (including traffic tickets and divorce records), bankruptcy filings, credit and financial information, medical history and records, employment history and records, education, family information, etc., etc. In short, all of the things about you that are NONE OF THE AIRLINE'S GODDAMN BUSINESS AT ALL!

What's really worrisome is that no one knows for sure the type of criteria they use to assign the colors to people. For instance, will having not-so-great credit, for whatever reason, or being low-income and paying your fare by cash because you either don't have a credit card or don't have enough credit be considered "risky?" What about if you have traffic tickets or a minor misdemeanor record, or a bankruptcy filing due to a job loss, divorce, or astronomical medical bills due to a serious or chronic illness? What about if you're going through a nasty divorce and/or custody battle? What if you don't have the "right" educational background? And on and on and on. See the problem? We don't even know by what standards these judgments are being made. And if they're doing it to avoid having to search old people and children, what's to stop someone from using old people or children as a way to get past the security color-coding?

For those of you who insist that profiling works and is good for security, I have two words: Timothy McVeigh. He would NEVER have been considered a security risk, by any past and current standards of risk, and not just because he was white, although that would be a large part of the reason. And it's easy to support profiling when you're not a member of the group that's automatically suspect.

And once you're assigned a color, you're not even permitted to know the reasons why that particular color was assigned and what criteria was used to make that judgment. Therefore, you cannot defend yourself, particularly if the records used were incorrect or had false information. So I absolutely refuse to fly until this bullshit, fascist, discriminatory system is totally SCRAPPED AND GONE FOR GOOD! Since I don't fly all that much, and don't have reason to fly that much, my individual decision probably won't make that much difference economically. But I know an awful lot of people who feel the same way, and my travel agent says that a lot of people aren't flying anymore, but driving everywhere, even if it's a thousand miles or more. And if the airlines are weeping and wailing and whining now about how much business they've been losing, just wait until this system is implemented and people know what it's all about. Then you'll see a lot of airports turn into ghost towns!

[HFishbine]

1. Do Airlines have an option

Just curious, do airlines have an option not to participate?

[liberalhistorian]

6. I don't know, but I don't think they do

since it's an FAA program.

[E_Zapata]

2. Given my letters to the White House, Congress, et al:

I am sure that my dissent from the Bush Administration has already put me on a list, so I have no time to buy a plane ticket (non-refundable, usually) and get to the airport and not be allowed on.

I think there should be a way for a person to check to see if they *are* on a no fly list before they get all ready to go.

How can it be a national security issue for me to know if the govt has put me on a list?

[liberalhistorian]

5. That's another thing, thanks for bringing that up.

If you've written any kind of letter of dissent or anything like that at all, chances are you'll be on the list as well. I googled my name once, and every single letter I wrote to my reps, to the FDA and other agencies, etc., was listed, which was a real shocker!

Also, group memberships in any kind of "subversive" (i.e., democratic, "leftist", etc.)group would be noted as well.

[readmylips]

3. No flying here...

In our family, we used to fly regularly and we loved it. The last time we flew, we felt uncomfortable and in a panic, and not to mention over two hours in line at the airport. We decided to invest in a used camper and now that we took early retirement, the hell with the airlines. We have our freedom back to see the USA from sea to shinning sea. We've been screwed with the gas situation, but I'd rather pay for the gas than to be humiliated and insulted at an airport.

[Boudicea]

4. I'm looking forward to the day they install ...

the monitors that see through your clothing. Why not just do a body cavity search?

[liberalhistorian]

7. That's ANOTHER thing I refuse to be

subjected to as well! Why don't they just criminalize airline passengers and be done with it?

[eleny]

8. I have not flown since 9/11

because I don't trust air travel at all. I can't even imagine myself boarding a plane and buckling up. I've tried to picture it in my imagination and the fantasy is cut off.

But I'm older and retired, have travelled a lot and don't feel that I'm missing out. We like to camp out around the U.S. and wouild rather travel with our camper. So, younger people on the go might have very different needs.

[KoKo]

I thought this was just a "proposal!" This isn't actually in use, yet,

is it? I can't imagine this! It's against our civil liberties, our privacy......all that. Do you have a link that this is ineffect?

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[slackmaster]

12. Are you afraid they'll call you a "red"?

For those of you who insist that profiling works and is good for security, I have two words: Timothy McVeigh. He would NEVER have been considered a security risk, by any past and current standards of risk, and not just because he was white, although that would be a large part of the reason.

McVeigh was a known separatist and associated with known anti-government groups. It's not clear that he would not have been tagged under the new system. You are free to make that assumption, but it isn't supported by facts.

[ma4t]

13. actually, this plan would be an improvement over current system

OK. Calm down.

While I find little in liberalhistorian's post to disagree with I must say that the color-coding scheme would be better than the current system where an army of TSA agents x-ray, scan and paw through one's belongings.

I sure that the profiling system will be obtrusive, will encroach on citizens' rights and will be largely ineffective in combatting terrorism. However; since it will be largely a function performed by computers it will be less expensive than TSA and therefore and improvement over TSA. After all, if one has to balance two different systems that are obtrusive and ineffective the better choice would be the less expensive one.

In case anyone is wondering I'm only being just a little sarcastic here.