Supplements will be banned in Europe

[MellowOne]

http://www.thehealthcrusader.com/pgs/article-0104-ban.shtml

In August 2005, everything in Europe is about to change. Over 300 bioavailable nutrient forms present in over 5,000 safe vitamin and mineral products that include a large number of the safest, most readily absorbed and most effective, food-derived forms will be banned from the market. It stems from radical legislation passed in Europe by member State governments in June 2002 known as the EU Food Supplements Directive (FSD). The list of banned items includes natural vitamin forms such as mixed tocopherols (natural vitamin E), carotenoids and methylcobalamin, all forms of sulphur, boron, vanadium, silicon and most trace elements, the most readily absorbed and safest forms of calcium, magnesium, zinc, selenium, chromium and molybdenum. It will severely limit the doses of vitamins and other nutrients allowed in products, removing all high-dose products from the market. It will include future restrictions on nutrient forms other than vitamins and minerals such as fatty acids, amino acids, enzymes, probiotics, phytonutrients, etc. It will dramatically limit future innovation in the dietary supplement industry, with consequent serious impacts on retail outlets, complementary practitioners and consumers who choose to take responsibility for their own health.

In addition to denying most Europeans access to safe nutritional supplements, this draconian EU Directive is going to be used as the blueprint for establishing international dietary supplement laws at Codex of which the U.S. has agreed to adopt. If this happens, which is a very likely scenario in the next year or so, Codex will outlaw or severely restrict virtually everything millions of us have grown accustomed to using safely every day. We no longer live in a world where national borders mean much of anything. We are witnessing the rapid unification of the world into a new global government with Europe at the helm. When the World Trade Organization (WTO) was given teeth to enforce international trade laws in the early 1990s by establishing an international court known as the Dispute Settlement Body, all WTO member nations in principle agreed to harmonize their domestic trade laws to a new set of international laws so every nation operates by the same set of standards. Most supplement consumers were unaware at the time that in effect, this would eventually lead to an incremental attack on all of our food supplements here in America and around the world. Most supplement companies have simply gone along with the advice from their pharmaceutically dominated trade associations and know very little, if any, about what is taking shape across the Atlantic.

More.....

[Massacure]

1. I've seen studies that say they are useless at best and dangerous at worst

It focused mainly on the so called super vitamins though. If people are worried about their healtht they should eat right instead of popping a pill.

[Thtwudbeme]

3. dear, which ones are you writing about?

maybe you could give the rest of us a clue as to how you formed this "opinion" with some links?

[Massacure]

8. It was a show on the Discovery Channel about vitamins.

It had testimony by both pro and anti supplement people. It also showed how some supplements were not effective because people would just take them with water when they cannot be absorbed without food. They also showed a study that said that a lack of vitamin E caused some cancer, and that on the other side of the sword too much vitamin E also caused some cancers to spread faster.

edited for spelling.

[Thtwudbeme]

11. So you are basing your opinion of ALL vitamins and food

supplements on a show that you caught on the Discovery Channel?

Seriously, I am not trying to aggravate you, I just want you to think about this subject.

[Massacure]

15. It only covered 4 or 5 vitamins. If they are initially wrong about one

How many others? Accountability is a good thing. Banning them outrite is a bad thing.

[Thtwudbeme]

22. OK...what should the EU and the US do

about the drugs on the shelves that regularly kill people....right now, I am thinking of tylenol.

How do you feel about that?

[Massacure]

30. They should be regulated better too.

[BrklynLiberal]

27. Who sponsored the show? Compare bad side effects of pharmaceuticals

compared to those of vitmains and mineral supplements.

[postulater]

4. I've seen the same about drugs

Think I'll stick with my supplements, they're closer to what my body cells use in normal metabolism. If I can keep my cells happy then I feel much better.

[Randi_Listener]

5. What fucking studies are you talking about?

Post some motherfucking links.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

7. One worthless extract of pine trees.... not much to write home about....

unless of course you rather drugs that are pulled left and right for killing people daily. I rather pycnogenol and its relatives. I really cannot wait until the alfalfa czar is named and given an army of rabid enforcers to protect us from such dangerous items.


1: J Med Food. 2001 Winter;4(4):201-209. Related Articles, Links

Pycnogenol((R)) in the Management of Asthma.

Hosseini S, Pishnamazi S, Sadrzadeh SM, Farid F, Farid R, Watson RR.

College of Public Health and School of Medicine, The University of Arizona, 1501 N. Campbell Ave., Tucson, AZ 85724.

Asthma is characterized as a chronic inflammatory process. Pycnogenol((R)), a bioflavonoid mixture extracted from Pinus maritima, is known to scavenge free radicals while possessing antioxidant and antiinflammatory properties. The objective of this study was to evaluate the efficiency of this agent in a randomized, double-blinded, placebo-controlled, crossover study in patients with varying asthma severity. Twenty-six patients who fulfilled the American Thoracic Society criteria for asthma were enrolled in the study. Medical history, physical examination, blood sample analyses, and spirometric values were obtained at baseline, 4 weeks, and 8 weeks. The patients were randomly assigned to receive either 1 mg/lb/day (maximum 200 mg/day) Pycnogenol or placebo for the first period of 4 weeks and then crossed over to the alternate regimen for the next 4 weeks. No adverse effects were observed related to the study drug. Within the contingent of 22 patients who completed the study, almost all responded favorably to Pycnogenol in contrast to placebo. Pycnogenol treatment also significantly reduced serum leukotrienes compared with placebo. The results of this pilot study indicate that Pycnogenol may be a valuable nutraceutical in the management of chronic asthma. We recommend that further clinical trials be conducted in larger groups of asthmatics to establish its efficacy.

PMID: 12639402


1: Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2002 Apr;40(4):158-68. Related Articles, Links

A review of the French maritime pine bark extract (Pycnogenol), a herbal medication with a diverse clinical pharmacology.

Rohdewald P.

Institute Pharmaceutical Chemistry, Westfalische Wilhelms-Universitat Munster, Germany. [e-mail]

OBJECTIVES: An increasing body of evidence indicates that Pycnogenol (PYC), a standardized extract of French maritime pine bark, has favorable pharmacological properties. This is a review of studies with both PYC and components of the preparation, that have helped to elucidate target sites and possible mechanisms for activity in men. METHODS: Studies appearing in peer reviewed literature, as well as results presented at international meetings not yet available as published papers, are included in this review. Additional data from published sources in German and French languages that are not widely available are also included. RESULTS: Chemical identification studies showed that PYC is primarily composed of procyanidins and phenolic acids. Procyanidins are biopolymers of catechin and epicatechin subunits which are recognized as important constituents in human nutrition.

PYC contains a wide variety of procyanidins that range from the monomeric catechin and taxifolin to oligomers with 7 or more flavonoid subunits. The phenolic acids are derivatives of benzoic and cinnamic acids. The ferulic acid and taxifolin components are rapidly absorbed and excreted as glucuronides or sulphates in men, whereas procyanidins are absorbed slowly and metabolized to valerolactones which are excreted as glucuronides. PYC has low acute and chronic toxicity with mild unwanted effects occurring in a small percentage of patients following oral administration. Clinical studies indicate that PYC is effective in the treatment of chronic venous insufficiency and retinal micro-hemorrhages.

PYC protects against oxidative stress in several cell systems by doubling the intracellular synthesis of anti-oxidative enzymes and by acting as a potent scavenger of free radicals. Other anti-oxidant effects involve a role in the regeneration and protection of vitamin C and E. Anti-inflammatory activity has been demonstrated in vitro and in vivo in animals. Protection against UV-radiation-induced erythema was found in a clinical study following oral intake of PYC. In asthma patients symptom scores and circulating leukotrienes are reduced and lung function is improved. Immunomodulation has been observed in both animal models as well as in patients with Lupus erythematosus. PYC antagonizes the vasoconstriction caused by epinephrine and norepinephrine by increasing the activity of endothelial nitric oxide synthase.

Dilation of the small blood vessels has been observed in patients with cardiovascular disease, whereas in smokers, PYC prevents smoking-induced platelet aggregation and reduces the concentration of thromboxane. The ability to inhibit angiotensin-converting enzyme is associated with a mild antihypertensive effect. PYC relieves premenstrual symptoms, including abdominal pain and this action may be associated with the spasmolytic action of some phenolic acids. An improvement in cognitive function has been observed in controlled animal experiments and these findings support anecdotal reports of improvement in ADHD patients taking PYC supplements. CONCLUSIONS: There is much evidence showing that PYC has beneficial effects on physiological functions. Results from ongoing clinical research are required to confirm and extend previous observations.

Publication Types:

* Review
* Review, Tutorial


PMID: 11996210

[HysteryDiagnosis]

9. Criminy, I almost forgot the benefits for diabetics.... my bad.....

1: Liu X, Wei J, Tan F, Zhou S, Wurthwein G, Rohdewald P. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Antidiabetic effect of Pycnogenol French maritime pine bark extract in patients with diabetes type II.
Life Sci. 2004 Oct 8;75(21):2505-13.
PMID: 15363656

2: Liu X, Zhou HJ, Rohdewald P. Related Articles, Links
Free Full Text French maritime pine bark extract Pycnogenol dose-dependently lowers glucose in type 2 diabetic patients.
Diabetes Care. 2004 Mar;27(3):839. No abstract available.
PMID: 14988316

3: Maritim A, Dene BA, Sanders RA, Watkins JB 3rd. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Effects of pycnogenol treatment on oxidative stress in streptozotocin-induced diabetic rats.
J Biochem Mol Toxicol. 2003;17(3):193-9.
PMID: 12815616

4: Schonlau F, Rohdewald P. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Pycnogenol for diabetic retinopathy. A review.
Int Ophthalmol. 2001;24(3):161-71.
PMID: 12498513

5: Spadea L, Balestrazzi E. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Treatment of vascular retinopathies with Pycnogenol.
Phytother Res. 2001 May;15(3):219-23.
PMID: 11351356

6: Peng Q, Wei Z, Lau BH. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Pycnogenol inhibits tumor necrosis factor-alpha-induced nuclear factor kappa B activation and adhesion molecule expression in human vascular endothelial cells.
Cell Mol Life Sci. 2000 May;57(5):834-41.
PMID: 10892347

[Massacure]

13. My brother and dad are diabetics. That looks very interesting.

[Eloriel]

23. If they're interested in a dietary approach to diabetes as well

have them look at The Rosedale Diet by Dr. Rosedale, in which he flat out claims he CAN cure diabetes and cites some rather impressive case studies of his own. Also look at the South Beach Diet which is quite similar in many ways.

[Massacure]

31. Thanks, I'll have them take a look at that.

[Ladyhawk]

103. Hmmm. I'm a diabetic.

I could use a beneficial diet. Thanks.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

28. "My brother and dad are diabetics.""

Look, if you want to help them in ways that you could NEVER IMAGINE... go here www.glycoexpert.com and read the experiences diabetics have had with glyconutrients. Mind you, these glyconutrients have an extremely low glycemic index, they very well may increase insulin sensitivity and well, just read the examples.

A book that you should buy them is "Sugars That Heal". Read the chapter on diabetes. There is an example of I want to say a 76 year old type II diabetic man who was put on one gram of the glyconutrients per day (by a licensed physician) and in a month, he was weaned off insulin altogether. He went back to walking and jogging... got his life back.... these sugars ARE the miracle that they are purported to be.

[Massacure]

32. I'll show them that.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

40. They may well be able to be "cured" if they are type II's. Also, you

might want to check these two sites...


www.lipoic.com

www.diabetea.com

[Ladyhawk]

104. I'll give it a look-see, but I have to admit I have serious problems...

...with non-approved medicines. I've seen way too many quacks who sell snake oil.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

14. Oh... and sickle cell... imagine how many persons could benefit from this

information and they WILL NOT BE TOLD BY THOSE WHOM THEY TRUST themselves and their loved ones to.... pity.

1: Nutrition. 2000 May;16(5):330-8. Related Articles, Links

Comment in:

* Nutrition. 2000 Nov-Dec;16(11-12):1098-100.


Sickle cell anemia: a potential nutritional approach for a molecular disease.

Ohnishi ST, Ohnishi T, Ogunmola GB.

Philadelphia Biomedical Research Institute, King of Prussia, Pennsylvania 19406, USA. [e-mail]

A certain population of red blood cells in patients with sickle cell anemia has an elevated density and possesses an abnormal membrane. These "dense cells" have a tendency to adhere to neutrophils, platelets, and vascular endothelial cells, and, thus, they could trigger vasoocclusion and the subsequent painful crisis from which these patients suffer. We developed a laboratory method of preparing such dense cells and found that nutritional antioxidant supplements, hydroxyl radical scavengers, and iron-binding agents could inhibit the formation of dense cells in vitro. The concentrations at which effective nutritional supplements could inhibit dense cell formation by 50% were 4.0 mg/mL for aged garlic extract, 0.38 mg/mL for black tea extract, 0.13 mg/mL for green tea extract, 0.07 mg/mL for Pycnogenol, 930 microM for alpha-lipoic acid, 270 microM for vitamin E, 45 microM for coenzyme Q(10), and 32 microM for beta-carotene. Both an ex vivo study and a pilot clinical trial demonstrated that a cocktail consisting of daily doses of 6 g of aged garlic extract, 4-6 g of vitamin C, and 800 to 1200 IU of vitamin E may indeed be beneficial to the patients.

Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial
* Controlled Clinical Trial


PMID: 10793299

[Massacure]

12. See my post 8. I'm not saying get rid of vitamins and use drugs instead.

Supplements have uses. They are just overhyped as a cure all solution.

[Randi_Listener]

16. There are some great fucking supplements.

Don't close your motherfucking mind based on some bullshit TV show.

[Massacure]

21. There are some good vitamins. But there is too much of a good thing.

Btw, is it required to say fuck every third word?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

25. Too much of a good thing.... right here..... too much chemo.....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12222661

Effect of PYCNOGENOL on the toxicity of heart, bone marrow and immune organs as induced by antitumor drugs.

http://www.healthy.net/scr/interview.asp?PageType=Interview&ID=158
Sun-damage, Skin and Pycnogenol

© Interview With Dr. Antti Arstila
Interviewed By Richard A. Passwater Ph.D.

When my first column on Pycnogenol® appeared, and especially after my booklet on the nutrient was published, I received many letters from readers wishing to know more about this important nutritional supplement. So I set about visiting several researchers around the world to learn more about Pycnogenol and the latest research on its health benefits.

One of my most enjoyable visits was with Professor Antti Arstila of the University of Jyvaeskylae in central Finland during October, 1993. It amused me that I had to travel almost halfway around the world to meet Professor Arstila when after all, since 1971, he occasionally is in my back yard as an Associate Professor at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, but yet our paths did not cross while he was in the U. S.

Prior to that, he was an Associate Professor at Duke University from 1969 - 1971. Professor Arstila also lectured on Pycnogenol in the U. S. in 1992, but again, our schedules did not match. So, in Finland, a few miles from the Arctic Circle, we finally meet. It was well worth the trip.

Professor Antti Holevi Arstila, M.D. is a cell biologist, toxicologist, pathologist and antioxidant expert. He is the Chairman of the Department of Cell Biology at the University of Jyvaeskylae in Jyvaeskylae, Finland. Professor Arstila has authored 15 scientific and medical textbooks, in addition to six books for laymen on health and disease. He has also contributed to more than 200 scientific publications, congress abstracts and textbooks on subjects that include electron microscopy, neuroscience, cell injury, lipid peroxidation, free radicals and antioxidants.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

38. Oh noooooo..... I was supporting the use of safe and effective supplements

I'm one of the good guys.... heh hehe heh... when they start banning safe supplements, I will quit paying taxes... I just might do that anyway since this administration doesn't know what to do with them... in fact, my taxes are used in unsafe ways by this administration... hows that for a twist???

[Randi_Listener]

39. The motherfucking government should be...

..pushing protein, creatine, and glutamine supplements in the goddamn schools.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

50. No "shit" eh?? I hear ya loud and clear, I have been reading and studying

about the miracles locked up in mute silence for years..... it's a crime. A literal crime.... for example....Cystic Fibrosis, COPD, or even asthma... look at this paper showing the depletion of glutathione in cystic fibrosis... A NATURALLY OCCURRING BODILY ANTIOXIDANT.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15658882
1: Treat Respir Med. 2004;3(6):353-63. Related Articles, Links

New insights into the pathogenesis of cystic fibrosis: pivotal role of glutathione system dysfunction and implications for therapy.

Hudson VM.

Brigham Young University, 760 SWKT, Provo, UT 84602, USA. [e-mail]

>>The promising results of two clinical trials of aerosolized buffered GSH in cystic fibrosis patients have been published or accepted for publication at the time of this writing. GSH depletion in lung epithelial lining fluid has also been noted in other respiratory diseases such as COPD, idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis, and adult respiratory distress syndrome, and therapies to augment GSH may also be contemplated in these diseases.<<


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14982600
1: Respirology. 2004 Mar;9(1):38-42. Related Articles, Links

The effects of antioxidants on exercise-induced lipid peroxidation in patients with COPD.

Agacdiken A, Basyigit I, Ozden M, Yildiz F, Ural D, Maral H, Boyaci H, Ilgazli A, Komsuoglu B.

Department of Cardiology, University Faculty of Medicine, Kocaeli, Turkey.

>>In contrast there were no significant differences in MDA, VE and GSH levels in the control group after exercise. VE and MDA levels increased significantly after exercise in COPD patients but there was no difference in GSH levels. Baseline exercise time was significantly lower in the COPD group than in the controls. In 10 COPD patients who were given antioxidant therapy, their exercise time increased significantly and there was no increase in MDA and VE levels after the repeated exercise test. CONCLUSIONS: Antioxidant levels were significantly lower in COPD patients than in control subjects. In these patients, exercise results in more significant oxidative stress and lipid peroxidation than in control subjects and antioxidant therapy may decrease lipid peroxidation following exercise and improve exercise capacity.<<


See.... very few people in here realize that NAC is a commonly sold antioxidant supplement.... how sad, sadder still when they forbid its sale in the open market.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15083766
1: Eur Respir J. 2004 Apr;23(4):629-36. Related Articles, Links

Antioxidant properties of N-acetylcysteine: their relevance in relation to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

Dekhuijzen PN.

Dept of Pulmonary Diseases, University Medical Centre Nijmegen, P.O. Box 9101, 6500 HB Nijmegen, The Netherlands. [e-mail]

In addition, oxidative stress results in alterations in the local immune response, increasing the risk of infections and exacerbations, which, in turn, may accelerate lung function decline. The antioxidant N-acetylcysteine, a glutathione precursor, has been applied in these patients in order to reduce symptoms, exacerbations and the accelerated lung function decline. This article reviews the presently available experimental and clinical data on the antioxidative effects of N-acetylcysteine in chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.

[Randi_Listener]

57. Goddamn. That's some heavy duty shit there.

That's more information than I had. The effects of glutamine, creatine, and NAC are well studied. But we keep pushing the Fred Fucking Flintstone multivitamin is all the little fucking children need.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

60. See here.... this is from Pycnogenol.com... asthma clinical trial check it

www.pycnogenol.com There are dozens and dozens of studies on this antioxidant involving dozens of diseases/syndroms related to excess leukotrienes, oxidative molecules (free radicals) and poor circulation.... enjoy what you find... personally, I think they freed all the radicals in the 60's... heh heh heh.... :)

January 17th 2005
PYCNOGENOL® SHOWS EFFECTIVENESS IN MANAGEMENT OF CHILDHOOD ASTHMA

Study shows decrease in asthma symptoms;
participants able to significantly reduce their use of inhalers

GENEVA, Switzerland – January 17, 2005 – A new clinical study found children and teenagers with mild to moderate asthma who supplemented with French maritime pine bark extract Pycnogenol® (pic-noj-en-all) experienced improvement in pulmonary function and a significant decrease in asthma symptoms.

The double-blind, placebo-controlled study published in the November/December issue of the Journal of Asthma found that 60 children aged six to 18 years old were able to significantly reduce or discontinue their use of rescue inhalers with Pycnogenol® more often than the placebo group. Study participants who supplemented with Pycnogenol® showed a significant reduction of inflammatory mediators (leukotrienes), which cause inflammation and bronchi constriction commonly associated with asthma.

“Pycnogenol®‘s antioxidant activity and powerful anti-inflammatory properties work to soothe the irritation that cause bronchi to constrict and swell, making breathing difficult,” said Benjamin Lau, Ph.D., School of Medicine, Loma Linda University and one of the authors of the study. “Treatment compliance is an ongoing problem among the four to five million children under the age of 18 suffering from asthma. This study demonstrates help for asthmatic children through a nutritional approach as compared to sole reliance on oral medication and rescue inhalers”

Asthmatics experience periods of wheezy breathing and breathlessness with intervals of relative or complete freedom from symptoms. Antigenic substances such as pollen and animal hair can obstruct airways, as well as chemical irritants like tobacco, smoke, dust and air pollution. Even cold air and exercise can trigger asthmatic episodes.

Dr. Lau tested Pycnogenol®’s effectiveness based on four parameters: the ability to breathe, the asthma severity symptoms, the frequency of rescue inhaler usage and the quantity of inflammatory molecules in the child’s body. Breathing improved after only one month and continued with further treatment. The severity of asthma symptoms also decreased the longer participants supplemented with Pycnogenol®. Likewise, Pycnogenol® reduced leukotriene values after one month and further decreased them throughout the three-month study. Pycnogenol® dramatically reduced and in several cases eliminated the children’s dependence on a rescue inhaler, which is used to rapidly dilate the bronchi during an asthma “attack.”

“Previous studies have shown Pycnogenol® to be effective in decreasing asthma symptoms among adults. These recent results further demonstrate the efficacy of Pycnogenol® and position this natural antioxidant as a key player in the management of mild to moderate childhood asthma,” said Lau.

Pycnogenol® is a natural plant extract originating from the bark of the Maritime pine that grows along the coast of southwest France. Its unique combination of procyanidins, bioflavonoids and organic acids enhances overall circulation and offers extensive natural health benefits to individuals suffering from inflammation. The extract has been widely studied for the past thirty-five years and has more than 130 published studies and review articles ensuring safety and efficacy as an ingredient. Pycnogenol® brand products are available in over 300 dietary supplements, multi-vitamins and health formulas worldwide. For more information visit www.pycnogenol.com.

[postulater]

66. I could use some fucking supplements.

That's one activity I always like to improve on.

[DARE to HOPE]

45. Interesting that it's called "French maritime pinebark"...

...as it was the Native Americans, I believe, who rescued the fainting crew of Robert La Sieur de la Salle, climbing up the cliffs at the bottom of the "thumb" on Wisconsin's east coast with this pinebark. They made a tea of the bark and needles, and nursed these 17th c explorers back to health from the flu that almost took them out. Or so the story goes....

[HysteryDiagnosis]

52. That's the story... here is the site with the documents all in one place

that explain the myriad benefits that may be had by supplementing with this tremendous antioxidant....


www.pycnogenol.com

[American Tragedy]

86. Another pycnogenol fan, I see

:)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

89. I'm a much bigger fan of the glycos.... and for very good

reason...

www.resultsproject.net

[Warpy]

10. I sold health foods for years

and I always told the truth: all those super high potency vitamins give you very expensive urine at best and can be dangerous, at worst.

Most of that stuff is the placebo effect. People pop thirty pills and think they're doing something great for their health, and lo and behold, they feel better. Most of it does no harm. A few things, like the extra potency oil soluble vitamins, are downright dangerous.

Yes, you should eat a large variety of foods and yes, this will give you adequate vitamins and minerals. However, if you're on any sort of weight loss or other deficiency diet, a good multivitamin and multimineral tab a day won't hurt and maybe they'll help.

I'd really hate to see this stuff, with the exception of the goat bolus sized vitamins A & D, made prescription only, if only because that placebo effect does make vitamin heads feel better.

[Randi_Listener]

18. Dogshit.

If you get the right multivitamin, you will see dramatic results.

[Massacure]

29. IF. There is a lot of shit out there though.

[Randi_Listener]

34. No need to fucking ban the shit.

Regulate it if you want but a ban is fucked up.

[Massacure]

56. Thats what I've said in like three other posts.

[DARE to HOPE]

49. "Placebo effect?"

Shame on you!

Study some history of health and life and well being in these United States, why don't you.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

17. So now codex knows more than the AMA.... interesting.

JAMA Article Urges All Adults To Take Daily Multivitamin
19 June 2002
by Wyn Snow, Managing Editor

Drs. Kathleen M. Fairfield and Robert H. Fletcher, of Harvard Medical School in Boston MA, recommend that all adults take a daily multivitamin. Their two-part report appears in the June 19th issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.

Fairfield and Fletcher reviewed studies of relationships between vitamin intake and various diseases published between 1966 and 2002.They conclude that suboptimal levels of vitamin intake are associated with increased risk of contracting a variety of chronic diseases, including cancer and heart disease. This is true even when intakes are high enough to prevent classical symptoms of deficiency diseases like scurvy, beriberi and rickets.

As SupplementQuality.com reported in a previous article (see RDAs And Safe Upper Levels: Solid Science Versus Bureaucratic Bias), the recommended dietary allowance, or RDA, of various vitamins is intended to prevent deficiency disease, not to provide an optimal level of vitamin inake. It has long been known that the elderly, the sick, and people on restrictive diets are vulnerable to vitamin deficiencies. However, the "normal diet" of more than two-thirds of Americans does not include the recommended daily intake of at least five servings of fruits and vegetables. Only those eating a "super-perfect" diet are likely to get all the vitamins they need from their food.

Fletcher and Fairfield also warned that excessive dosage levels can have toxic effects. They also indicate that many doctors may view vitamins as "an alternative therapy" -- or may not appreciate the importance of vitamin deficiencies and may therefore overlook the value of recommending multivitamins to their patients.

Source

Kathleen Fairfield MD and Robert Fletcher MD. "Vitamins for Chronic Disease Prevention: Scientific Review and Clinical Applications." Clinician's Corner, Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol 287, No 23, 19 July 2002.

[DARE to HOPE]

46. PROPAGANDA from the drug companies...

(in answer to your "useless at best and dangerous at worst!")

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Does this mean I won't be able to continue to take the vitamins &

minerals I take daily?
More pressure from th epharmaceutical corps to stop people from being able to live without chemicals!!!!!!!!

[Eloriel]

20. That's exactly what it means

We are all going to be in BIG trouble. I can't imagine how this was allowed to pass in Europe, and I can't imagine how it will be allowed to pass here in the U.S. (Orin Hatch, where are you when we need you.)

I have had SO many little and big health problems "cured" by just the proper administration of certain supplements, thanks to the expertise of my primary healthcare provider who happens to be a chiropractor (mostly) using applied and clinical kinesiology: Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (numerous, numerous supplements over 15 months), shingles (homeopathy fixed that one), shooting pains in my belly (zinc), chronic back pain (magnesium), mild depression (plant-based lithium), and many others I'm not even remembering.

Add to this the fact that I can't seem to find an antibiotic these days that doesn't give me some fairly serious side effects having to do with my cardiovascular system (ah, another "cure" which happened to be a special heart nutrition formula -- last time I had to try to use an antibiotic).

I simply can't fathom not being able to have total access to whatever supplements I and/or my healthcare provider think are appropriate.

[serryjw]

26. I will just listen to my body

Can't imagine living w/o vitamins and herbs. Food produced in the US will NOT give you needed nutrients.They are all laced with harmful pesticies. Next someone is going to tell me red meat is good for me?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

42. I will just listen to my body

mine is playing Beethoveens 3rd Movement..... don't throw anything at me!!!

[jmowreader]

75. And then you have THIS wonderful supplement...

http://www.seasilver.com/product.aspx

which contains "trace elements" of such good-for-you minerals as Thallium and Strontium. Thallium's a deadly poison and Strontium is radioactive.

Do you need a hazmat permit to bring this crap home from the store?

[Lindacooks]

97. I agree - the problem is you do NOT know actually what is in the

supplements. They need to be regulated. You really trust these huge companies (don't tell me that these companies are little bitty mom and pop stores) to actually put in the product what's on the label? They don't!!

FDA Unveils New Rules For Supplement Labels

"The proposals were criticized by Janell Mayo Duncan, legislative counsel for Consumers Union, which has followed the issue since the mid-1990s. This summer, she said, her group identified 12 dangerous supplements that should be taken off the market immediately, but the FDA proposals do little to make that happen.

"What we need now is action, not more discussion of methods and procedures," she said. "The problems have been known for years, and the rulemaking process has been going on for years."

Duncan said the FDA effort to increase surveillance for harmful side effects is worthwhile, but the proposal would still leave adverse event reporting up to the companies rather than making it mandatory, as it is with prescription drugs.

<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26829-2004Nov4.html

Echinacea Products Often Mislabeled, Survey Says
Research shows some bottles didn't have any of the herb

When it comes to many echinacea products, consumers may not be getting what they pay for.

Versions of the popular herb sold over-the-counter as a cold fighter and immune booster differ widely in their contents, and the labels often don't reflect what's inside the bottle, says a study in the March 24 issue of the Archives of Internal Medicine .

The authors of the study bought 59 different echinacea products from Denver-area retailers over two days during August 2000. The preparations were then sent to a lab in Connecticut for analysis.

Six of the products, or 10 percent, contained no measurable echinacea at all, according to the investigators. Labeling matched contents in only 52 percent of the samples. Of the 21 "standardized" preparations, 43 percent met the quality standard described on the label. And only 7 percent of the samples met all four of the federal government's labeling requirements.

<snip>

http://www.hon.ch/News/HSN/512399.html

IFT EXPERTS INFORM AND CAUTION CONSUMERS ABOUT DIETARY SUPPLEMENTS

Unlike drugs and additives, which must undergo rigorous scientific testing for safety and efficacy and FDA pre-market approval, supplements have no formal regulatory requirements prior to being marketed and sold. Although supplement manufacturers should ensure that their products are safe and be able to provide information to support any labeling claims, the FDA bears the burden of showing that a supplement is unsafe or mislabeled before it can restrict or ban the product's use, say Camire and Kantor.

"The passage of DSHEA has created an economic and regulatory environment favorable to the expanded marketing, sales, and distribution of dietary supplements," they note. "Opportunities for consumers to purchase supplements in a free market economy are vastly increased, but expectations remain that government agencies provide protection from unsafe or mislabeled products. One of the future challenges with respect to supplements will be to reconcile these apparently opposing forces."

<snip>

http://www.ift.org/cms/?pid=1000570

[Dookus]

101. Yup

the companies that make billions off these supplements (they are NOT mostly little mom and pop shops) don't want ANY regulation so they can continue to sell stuff with no quality control and no standards. They've been peddling this FDA "ban" for decades now, just to get people riled up to oppose ANY regulation. They want to conflate regulation with banning in people's minds, and from reading this thread, they're doing a very good job of it.

[jbnow]

6. I am very surprised

Europe has been much "friendlier" with supplements then we have been here. They can be approved as alternative meds with much less expense, while here to make health claims it would cost millions for the FDA testing...and who would spend that on a product they can't profit from.

When I look for studies on supplements the majority are from Europe. Doctors suggest them there. Supplements like co-enzyme Q-10, selenium and so many others are well understood there. I really admired them in this area.

[KyndCulture]

19. This is disturbing. I hope the FDA doesn't do anything like this...

I've controlled my epilepsy for the last 8 years using nothing but herbs, supplements, vitamins and diet. No more whacked out zombie drugs. This would be horrible for me if it happened here.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

24. You are affecting the pharmcos bottom line. You will be corrected. You

are a victim of wrong thinking. There is a cure for this... really, I feel for you, all of us, we are going to be oh what's the right word... screwed.

Dear, I don't know if glyconutrients will be in their sights, I sincerely hope they won't, cuz they already are an integral part of your body... do read at www.glycoexpert.com or file this away in case that awful day comes when they sell all of us down the river for a buck.

[Us vs Them]

33. SUPPLEMENTS people... they're not banning the vitamins themselves

In a healthy diet, supplements are uncalled for. Every vitamin or mineral one could possibly need can be found in the produce section of your local organic market. Often these synthetically produced supplemental versions are hard on the system to break down, and require more energy for absorption. I applaud the idea of moving away from depending on them, however outright banning is a little uncalled for. Not all of us live near an apothecary.

[Randi_Listener]

36. You can't get ever fucking supplement in food.

For some of that shit, it's not naturally occuring.

[Us vs Them]

41. If it's not naturally occuring, I try to stay away from it.

Otherwise, food, herbs and minerals do just fine.

[Randi_Listener]

43. It's all naturally fucking occuring.

It may not be in food but the shit is in nature.

[jmowreader]

69. You weren't a sailor, were you?

It is possible to express a sentiment without using "fuck" as an adjective in every sentence.

Fuck is a good word, but too much of a good thing can be bad, m'kay?

[Dookus]

72. I wonder

if there's a supplement to aid Tourette's Syndrome.

[Lindacooks]

98. Then why do you want to put it in your body?

If isn't isn't 'natural', why isn't it regulated?

And eating a balanced diet is absolutely recommended over eating a sketchy diet and trying to make up for it with supplements and vitamins and minerals. There are many micronutrients in foods that we don't even know about that are probably necessary to the body. No pill is ever going to make up for not eating whole foods.

[Dookus]

37. this false claim has been around for years

they've been saying the FDA was going to do it for nearly two decades, and now Europe.

If you read the actual directive, it doesn't outlaw supplements or vitamins. It calls for establishing save levels and requires proper labelling.

You can read the actual directive here:

http://www.healthfreedommovement.com/downloads/Directive2002FINALFSD.pdf

[MellowOne]

44. My relatives in France are saying it will ban supplements

They will only be available through prescription. This includes vitamins and minerals as well as herbs.

Our bodies do not get the minerals we need from our food because it is grown in poor overdepleted soil. We really need minerals to be healty.

I personally feel it's still another way to control we the people.

http://www.healthfreedommovement.com/

[Dookus]

47. I pointed to the directive itself

read it.

What your French relatives say is immaterial.

A similar lie has been passed around the US for 20 years.

[MellowOne]

51. Very interesting

I wonder why they are making plans to take products off the shelves in health stores?

[Dookus]

54. who's making those plans?

If products are being removed, it's probably because they don't meet the safety and labelling requirements of the directive.

[smirkymonkey]

62. How do they feel about it?

To me this is outrageous, but something I would expect in the United States. I find it shocking that Europeans would put up with this, where they tend to rely on natural healing methods even more than we do.

What is happening to this planet? It seems like every aspect of our lives is becoming increasingly under government control.

[Baconfoot]

81. 1)Your opponent doesn't claim we don't "need" minerals.

2)You shouldn't be saying that "overdepleted soil" is causing us not to "get the minerals we need from our food." What you really should to be saying if anything is that the type of fertilizer used influences the mineral content of the resulting plants.

It's important to be careful about making claims regarding "overdepleted soil" being the cause of mineral deficiencies in our diets. That VERY claim has been used time and time again to sell bogus and sometimes harmful products (such as colloidal silver). I would ry to be specific with these kinds of claims. So, for example, you might want to say that soil depletion is causing to not get enough iron. (Actually, you wouldn't want to claim that we are not getting enough iron in our diets, because there aren't enough anemics running around. But you get the idea.)

[SoCalDem]

48. Since they have national health care, it sounds like a decent idea

Hear me out..

Instead of people wandering in and out of GNC-like stores, buying these things over the counter without ever really reading about the possible side effects, perhaps the medical community would just prescribe "extras" if their patients really need something.

Here in the US, we "self-prescribe" all the time based on what our friends are taking, what the smiling folks on TV tell us THEY are on, and of course the young boys, still growing into their adult bodies are willing to try anything to add muscle fast..The women are always hoping for that magic substance that will help them lose weight..

Perhaps the EU is showing foresight by trying to eliminate the self-medication aspect of these supplements..

From a marketing standpoint, the companies here and in Canada are probably smiling right now, since their mail-order business will probably increase ten-fold:)

[DARE to HOPE]

53. I would trust my own good sense ANYTIME...

...over that of the medical establishment (and I have a lifetime of experience to PROVE IT.)

This is about robbing us of power and money, same as Bush's Medicare "drug reform" bill, and his SS "reform."

[MellowOne]

55. I don't like the idea of anybody telling me I can't take my vitamins

You can overeat at McDonald's and nobody gives a hoot. But you get fat and have a heartattack. If I want to take supplements, that's my business. My doctor can prescribe medication but I can take as much as I want, even kill myself with it. Nobody can totally regulate what goes down your throat.

Supplements and herbs have helped a lot of people. It's more money into the medical professions pockets if we can't still rely on natural remedies.

[Dookus]

58. and of course

no one's telling you you can't. The whole premise of this thread is mistaken. The directive does NOT ban vitamins and minerals and supplements. It requires standardization, establishment of safe levels, and good labelling.

http://www.healthfreedommovement.com/downloads/Directive2002FINALFSD.pdf

[MellowOne]

61. That directive is from June 2002

From what I'm getting from relatives, supplements will be totally banned from the market and only available through prescription. I'll try to find more information. A friend of my grandmother who runs a small health-type store is making plans to convert her store into an organic produce store. Again, I'll get more information.

[Randi_Listener]

59. Motherfucking A-plus to that!

If you think it's unsafe, don't fucking take it and don't let your goddamn children take it. Leave the supplement inmdustry the fuck alone.

[Dookus]

63. I'm missing the point of all the fucking....

which is unusual for me.

Do you expand your freedom to all substances? Should there be no regulation whatsoever of such things? Should people be able to advertise anything? Should the pills be required to actually contain what you say they contain? Should their potency have to match what the container says? Should supplements known to be harmful be freely sold?

[Randi_Listener]

64. Freedom to all fucking substances.

Regulate them as FDA items with full disclosure. Advertise as you wish with full fucking disclosure and regulation. If it's harmful, disclose that shit and allow it to go to market.

What the fuck do you think is done with the cigarette industry. Anything short of opening the fucking market is intellectually dishonest shit.

[Dookus]

65. Seriously

why all the fucking? It's a little distracting from your point.

I don't quite get what you're proposing. Are you agreeing that the contents and dosage should be regulated, as far as labelling goes? Then we agree.

[Randi_Listener]

67. Regulate all fucking supplements under the FDA guidelines.

Then list dosages congruent with the fucking contents of the supplements. There should not be a shitty ban but full goddamn disclosure, then the fucking substance can be sold as any other supplement currently is. Epheda was banned because someone quadrupled the motherfucking dosage and collapsed from heat exhaustion. Then the fucking assholes blame the supplement manufactures. Bullshit.

[Dookus]

70. Actually

Ephedra was responsible for more than one death. This article claims 155.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4721505/

[Randi_Listener]

73. How many fucking deaths are cigarettes responsible for?

What year did they ban shit cigarette sales in the US?

[Dookus]

74. more

but you don't smoke a cigarette and drop dead. But this thread isn't about cigarettes.

I was merely correcting your mistake that the ephedra ban was caused by one death.

[Randi_Listener]

77. The one fucking death was the last straw.

Plus, this shit doesn't happen in a goddanm vacuum. You have to look at all substances that are fucking legal in the US. You can't discount that shit because it's not the point of the thread.

[Dookus]

79. Alas

I've had no luck finding you a supplement to cure tourette's.

I'm not discounting cigarette deaths. If you want to have a discussion about outlawing tobacco, start a thread. But it sounds like you don't want that - you want MORE dangerous and deadly products available to the public. And actually, there's a reasoned argument to be made for that view, but you're making it. The childish language just gets in the way of your point - deliberately trying to be provocative may be fun, but it doesn't really advance one's argument very well.

[Randi_Listener]

80. "Dangerous and deadly"?

Learn how to supplement and there's no problem. No one takes the whole goddamn bottle of aspirin. We know how to supplement.

Make fucking 'roids available. Label the fuck out of them, warn every motherfucker that they can cause organ failure/loss in bone density, and anchor's aweigh.

[Dookus]

82. I suppose

you have an argument in there somewhere. I'm not going to bother to try to find it.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

68. Be Calm'd..... a supplement

http://www.becalm.us/ <----- No f***ing s**t.

[Randi_Listener]

71. A long list

All the ingredients can be had at a cheaper price and the quality of the shit will be better.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

76. Oh I'm sure about that... I was just poking at the other poster...

actually I was poking at the "excitability" that has been prevalent in this thread, (understandably so) and making a sort of skewed pun at all of it.... "Be Calmed"?? Ya know?? Just lightening up a bit... hell... pycnogenol alone with cal/mag/zinc and omega threes has helped quite a few kids get a grip in school....

1: Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2002 Apr;40(4):158-68. Related Articles, Links

A review of the French maritime pine bark extract (Pycnogenol), a herbal medication with a diverse clinical pharmacology.


Rohdewald P.

Institute Pharmaceutical Chemistry, Westfalische Wilhelms-Universitat Munster, Germany. [e-mail]


OBJECTIVES: An increasing body of evidence indicates that Pycnogenol (PYC), a standardized extract of French maritime pine bark, has favorable pharmacological properties. This is a review of studies with both PYC and components of the preparation, that have helped to elucidate target sites and possible mechanisms for activity in men. METHODS: Studies appearing in peer reviewed literature, as well as results presented at international meetings not yet available as published papers, are included in this review. Additional data from published sources in German and French languages that are not widely available are also included.

RESULTS: Chemical identification studies showed that PYC is primarily composed of procyanidins and phenolic acids. Procyanidins are biopolymers of catechin and epicatechin subunits which are recognized as important constituents in human nutrition. PYC contains a wide variety of procyanidins that range from the monomeric catechin and taxifolin to oligomers with 7 or more flavonoid subunits. The phenolic acids are derivatives of benzoic and cinnamic acids. The ferulic acid and taxifolin components are rapidly absorbed and excreted as glucuronides or sulphates in men, whereas procyanidins are absorbed slowly and metabolized to valerolactones which are excreted as glucuronides.

PYC has low acute and chronic toxicity with mild unwanted effects occurring in a small percentage of patients following oral administration. Clinical studies indicate that PYC is effective in the treatment of chronic venous insufficiency and retinal micro-hemorrhages. PYC protects against oxidative stress in several cell systems by doubling the intracellular synthesis of anti-oxidative enzymes and by acting as a potent scavenger of free radicals. Other anti-oxidant effects involve a role in the regeneration and protection of vitamin C and E. Anti-inflammatory activity has been demonstrated in vitro and in vivo in animals. Protection against UV-radiation-induced erythema was found in a clinical study following oral intake of PYC.

In asthma patients symptom scores and circulating leukotrienes are reduced and lung function is improved. Immunomodulation has been observed in both animal models as well as in patients with Lupus erythematosus. PYC antagonizes the vasoconstriction caused by epinephrine and norepinephrine by increasing the activity of endothelial nitric oxide synthase. Dilation of the small blood vessels has been observed in patients with cardiovascular disease, whereas in smokers,

PYC prevents smoking-induced platelet aggregation and reduces the concentration of thromboxane. The ability to inhibit angiotensin-converting enzyme is associated with a mild antihypertensive effect. PYC relieves premenstrual symptoms, including abdominal pain and this action may be associated with the spasmolytic action of some phenolic acids. An improvement in cognitive function has been observed in controlled animal experiments and these findings support anecdotal reports of improvement in ADHD patients taking PYC supplements.

CONCLUSIONS: There is much evidence showing that PYC has beneficial effects on physiological functions. Results from ongoing clinical research are required to confirm and extend previous observations.

Publication Types:

* Review
* Review, Tutorial


PMID: 11996210

[Randi_Listener]

78. Children need a return to the goddamn gym class.

Lifting heavy and running fast should be the only motherfucking requirements of gym class. If you can't squat or deadlift your body weight, you can't fucking graduate (save for children in wheelchairs and kids with one leg or one arm, et al). That goes for both goddamn genders.

[American Tragedy]

83. Hope the US doesn't follow suit. Keep the government out of our bodies!

The pycnogenol & fish oil extracts & everything else that I use for my body should be none of their fucking business. I'm not imposing it on anyone else. My choice.

[Dookus]

85. They're not banning them

either in Europe or here.

http://www.cec.org.uk/press/myths/myth92.htm

Fact:
The aim of this directive is to ensure that vitamin and mineral pills on the market are safe to be consumed as supplements to a normal diet. The legislation will put public safety and informed consumer choice first, and should help to solve the problems manufacturers currently face in marketing their products due to diverging national rules. Consumers across Europe will have a wide range of safe products to choose from, which is currently not the case in several Member States.

Manufacturers will be obliged to provide detailed labelling giving clear information to the consumer. Bottles of vitamin pills will have to include clear instructions about daily dosage, a warning about the possible health risks from excess use and a statement that the pills should not be used as a substitute to a balanced diet. Claims that the product can prevent, treat or cure illnesses will be prohibited and it must be made clear that a balanced diet remains the best approach to achieving good health.

Manufacturers will have to submit safety dossiers and make a good case for the efficacy of their product. The UK is, at present, among the more liberal countries in allowing doses far higher than the official recommended daily allowances (RDAs) compared with other EU Member States where over-the-counter supplements may contain only the official RDA. Anything higher must be prescribed on clear medical grounds. The new rules will mean all supplements will be assessed for safety on the basis of scientific guidelines to determine what the maximum levels of vitamins and minerals in food supplements should be.

The claim that extra costs will push health food stores out of business is untrue. If the food supplements contain natural ingredients and pose no health risk, there is nothing to fear from the new safeguards.

[Randi_Listener]

87. Why would anyone want the motherfucking shit banned.

There are safe ways to administer this shit. Not every supplement will fuck you up.

[Dookus]

88. Who's saying ban them?

My post above shows that they are NOT being banned, despite the hysterical claims of some here.

[Randi_Listener]

91. Then we are in agreement.

[American Tragedy]

90. Well, I apologize if I misinterpreted the article

When it's prefaced with a headline like "Supplements to be banned in Europe", it's fairly easy to be confused. I just want to be sure that the objective is to inform consumers, not to try to make the decisions for them.

[Dookus]

92. No worries

it's not YOUR mistake. It's the mistake of the hysterical people who believe everything they read without checking it out.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

102. So basic vitamins will NOT be outlawed then?

[muriel_volestrangler]

105. Correct. The idea is to restrict the 'megadoses'

which are many times the recommended daily amount. Those will be treated as drugs - ie the manufacturers would have to do safety tests, and they might only be available from pharmacists.

[muriel_volestrangler]

84. An interesting report from the Consumers' Association

The British Equivalent of the Consumers Union.

Their conclusion?

What difference will the legislation make
to consumers overall?

Rather than being anti-consumer choice, the legislation will mean that consumers have greater protection and can make a far more informed choice. Instead of having a negative impact, as has been suggested, the new legislation will mean that at long last consumers will be in a position to use supplements that are safe, of the quality they would expect and have far more information about what they contain and how much to take.

http://www.which.net/campaigns/food/nutrition/0405supplements_br.doc.pdf

[OneBlueSky]

93. call me cynical, but this really smells like an attempt to . . .

put all those supplement companies out of business so the pharmaceutical corporations view them as competition for people's health care dollars . . .

[Dookus]

94. No

it's an attempt to make sure such things are properly labeled and actually contain what they're supposed to contain.

The original post is wrong - there is no "ban" proposed.

[MellowOne]

95. It's not that simple

Read the entire article. Here's a scary part of the article:

You have to understand what Big Brother's goal is here. Big Brother wants to cull our numbers. Big Brother doesn't want us living over the age of sixty-five. He wants us to keel over on our sixty-fifth birthday. They don't want us to get on these entitlement programs like Medicare and Medicaid because these things are bankrupt and they don't have the money to keep them going. They're also worried about world population. It's not to their advantage if we're healthy. They don't make business with health they make business with disease. An example of that is back in the 1950s when they stopped farmers from using manure for fertilizer and they got them all using chemical fertilizers and they broke the sulfur cycle. They did that on purpose knowing that it would trigger a huge rise in cancer and other degenerative diseases that would enable them to sell a lot more pharmaceutical drugs. That's just one example. Anything preventative they're against. Anything that will make you sick or will keep you sick, or keep you going into their hospitals to see their doctors to get drugs is what they want. It's as simple as that. They don't want you living a long time. Another aspect of this, which is even more sinister - food control equals people control. If they can control the world's food supply, which is what they're trying to do through Codex, they have us in the palm of their hands. That's what they're after - control.

Some people reading this interview may think that everything you’re saying here is too far fetched and that there's no way any of these things could happen - there's no way we, as Americans, would tolerate this. However, an interesting scenario is unfolding with genetically modified foods. The U.S. is the number one producer of genetically modified foods and Europe has not openly embraced our exports or these foods being planted. They've got a moratorium in place where they can't grow and farm biotech crops until all these safety studies are done, yet the United States is threatening to do to Europe what Europe in turn would potentially seek to do to us on the vitamins. We're threatening to take this trade dispute to the WTO and say that they're restricting free trade in an effort to force Europe to accept GMOs.

[Randi_Listener]

96. Even though they fucking banned Ephedra....

...it's still available for purchase. You can still get the shit in the US online LEGALLY.

[Dookus]

99. If you believe

you will not be able to buy a Vitamin C tablet in France next year, go right ahead and believe it.

[jdj]

100. they are fighting this, it's the first I've heard of it.

people will raise hell if this happens here, we have alot of great drugs available here, including MSM which is great for joint pain, echinacea which is great for colds, an amino acid (l-lysine?) that many people use to prevent herpes outbreaks.

I have treated myself almost exclusively with supplements for years...every time I go to a doctor or dentist they end up fucking me up worse than I was when I went in.

Anyway, heres the appeal info:

"The Alliance for Natural Health (ANH), a consumer advocacy group based in Britain, was recently granted the green light to challenge the FSD at the last minute; however, very rarely has a EU Directive ever been overturned and in this case, it would be a historic event considering the pharmaceutical interests backing its implementation. Resources are very scarce and desperately needed to keep the lawsuit going to overturn the Directive before it's too late. They've hired a top staff of EU lawyers and together with its multidisciplinary team of experts they are prepared for a legal challenge in a EU Court. With the EU expanding by ten more nations in early 2004 to a combined total of twenty-five member nations, and with heavy pressure to finalize a Codex vitamin standard, we're at a critical juncture on this issue. If the FSD is not overturned, and with Europe's ever-expanding power, it's very possible that there will be enough countries onboard to overrule the U.S. at Codex where many parts of the FSD will be used when international vitamin laws are codified. Once a Codex vitamin law is finalized, it will supercede all U.S. supplement laws. The only way for America to truly protect its vital interest is to get out of the U.N. and the WTO entirely, which is something nobody realistically sees happening. If America is not vigilant to this threat, our supplement industry will be blindsided and knocked out without even putting up a valiant fight."