"Lazy" or "emotion-based" posts

[paineinthearse]

This thread started in "ask the administrators" - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=120x29467

I posed: "Please allow a vent. There is a new post in the "general" forum that I'd classify as a "shoot from the hip" / emotion based rant of <25 words that called for members to protest to a government agency (no weblink or details provided). We need to do a better job of providing some facts, background and a detailed suggested course of action. The quality of posts run from this level to scholarly essays. Hope we can encourage a movement from the former towards the latter."

Skinner replied: "If you can come up with a way to encourage this movement, I am all ears."

I do not want to lessen the value of emotional posts, because that would dishonor the state the member is in at the time. But I would encourage those so inclined to perhaps save their thoughts to Word, step away for a few moments, then add some additional information or thoughts and post.

What can we do to preserve the "stream of consciousness" while adding some focus?

[AverageJoe]

1. I'm all for reasoned discourse

But one of the values DU holds for me is as a communication channel that does allow emotion/rants/steam-blowing from progressives from around the world.

The way I see it, DU provides a pressure valve and a support system to lots of folks who need to get their frustration with the right wing off of their chests. Sometimes a rant is just the thing that I need to read from someone else; sometimes it's what I need to post.

I'm not trying to undermine your proposal, but just wanted to post my feelings about the issue.

[northamericancitizen]

3. Everybody should be allowed to express him or heself

the way they feel the most comfortable.

Mostly in public and on this board we are very much in public.

It doesn't matter if at times the person is driven by reason and other times surfing on the emotional world.

We need both and nothing is complete without both.

[ClassWarrior]

2. I don't know that there's a formal way to enforce it...

...but I think we all need to adopt DU's 11th Commandment of Politics: "Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Democrat in public." If we did, it'd be real easy to tell the difference between legitimate concerns and outright disruption.

NGU.

[MadHound]

6. Oh please friend, why should we hold DINOs and corporate tools

Blameless while they stab us in the back, time and again? Sorry, I don't buy that, if Lieberman, Miller or some other Democrat is doing something stupid, I'm going to call them on it. It was by following this 11th commandment(and it is not just applicable to DU, but the Democratic party in general) that the Democratic party slid from being a true opposition party to a group of like-minded, corporate handled, Republican-lite sycophants who roll over at the slightest sign of disapproval from their corporate masters.

All people in government should be held accountable, no matter who they are.

[nolabels]

7. Well said, thank you

:thumbsup:

[ClassWarrior]

8. Wrong. It was in part by following Reagan's 11th Commandment...

...of Politics (Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow RepubliCON) that those ghouls were able to muster the message discipline that has made them such an infernal electoral powerhouse.

I didn't say we shouldn't criticize DINOs and others who deserve it, or fail to hold them accountable. However, "speaking ill" - trash-talking, bad-mouthing, villainizing - our own hurts us ALL and the Progressive movement as a whole.

I'd also like to add this piece of wisdom found on an orientation flyer from a children's class:

"Deal positively with problems by communicating them honestly to someone who can help solve them. Don't create negative energy by complaining to people who cannot solve your problems."

A lesson to be learned from the elementary-school set?

NGU.

[MadHound]

13. And gee, maybe if some of the more moderate 'Pugs dared to

Criticize their more fundementalist brethern, some of these policy excesses would have been contained over the intervening years. But nooo, Congressional leadership must consist of one loud voice and a bunch of bobblehead dolls nodding up and down:wtf:

I agree that needless trash talking isn't conducive to government, but this 11th commandment we are speaking of has the effect of stifling constructive criticism, and has resulted in the much less responsive, out of control government we see before us.

[ClassWarrior]

17. "This 11th commandment we are speaking of" is MY invention...

...which is why I call it "The 11th Commandment of DU." So IT hasn't resulted in anything yet in the larger political world.

And on the contrary, I think it would go a LONG way toward encouraging constructive criticism - by eliminating the superfluous and downright destructive name-calling, back-stabbing, circular firing squad mentality of our Party, and by allowing us to engage in a REAL dialogue for once.

NGU.

[nolabels]

19. Those close to you often hurt you the most, emotionally at least

Acrimony is part of life, without struggle there is no progress. Harry said if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. The problem with the democratic party is that they are so afraid of conflict and being thought ill of. So much so that they bend over backwards to try and prove it's not true. While the Republicans have adopted the other shtick that the Dems once had of being the good guys.

One of the best ways to change this charade with all its musical chairs is through engaging in that big conversation. When we learn how to deal with that gut wrenching angst of being exposed of who we really are, then the road to discovering what it's all about gets much easier.

[peacetalksforall]

22. Republicans rarely speak ill of their own (with exceptions*).

Coming from a position of never criticizing is sick. It is deceptive and a lie. It does nothing but perpetuate tyranny.

*(Buchanan and LaRouche seem to be exceptions, to a degree.)

[ClassWarrior]

4. HEY!! The OP has a legitimate concern. Are only TWO of us...

...going to bother to answer?

NGU.

[Auntie Bush]

10. 2 sounds good to me!

[Batgirl]

5. your point has merit,

but if the posts here consisted mostly of "scholarly essays" my interest level would wane considerably...

[Auntie Bush]

9. ?

:shrug:

[Auntie Bush]

11. Soo r ya sayiyng onely thee schlarly nede aply?

[AndyTiedye]

12. If The People Had Any Capacity for Rational Discourse

then we would be celebrating President Gore's second term right now.
:cry:

[peace4all]

14. I think generally the folks here ask for info & links

if they are not provided. I really appreciate this about DUers.

[cags]

15. Wouldn't it be easier for you to just skip those posts?

Your happy, the ranting poster is happy, no one has to conform to what another thinks is best.

[nolabels]

21. LOL

I am with you, lets all do our own thing and if we meet in the middle somewhere then it's a good thing ;-)

[SmokingJacket]

16. There may be a lot of emotion-based posts --

but GD doesn't seem overwhelmed by them, to me. This never struck me as a real problem. I just ignore posts that seem pointless -- there are always plenty of others. Do you really see DU as lacking in serious discussion?

I think there's a nice and always interesting mix of serious and flippant in GD. You can't expect every poster to try to solve the world's problems with every post -- this is a place to vent, comment, argue, remark, point out, roll eyes, as well as discuss. I thought.

[MostlyLurks]

18. Perhaps Cleaving The GD Forum?

I tend toward the idea that "General Discussion", as a topic, is so broad that all the junk gets in there because nobody knows where to put it.

The Lounge has become a bit of a fiefdom, where half the posts are in-references that you can't understand unless you're reading DU constantly, and the other half are vanity posts and jokes. So the stuff that doesn't fit that category ends up in GD, even if it's just a vent.

Personally, I *really* liked the days after 11/2, when we had the "Acrimony and Recriminations" forum, where you could go and bitch completely unconstructively. I did my fair share of posting in the "Acrimony and Recriminations" forum and was happy and better off for having done it because 1)I got a lot of people to post back to me in disagreement which forced me to think about/defend my position and 2)it helped to know that some people were in the same mental boat, which was also helpful.

Perhaps a similar forum in which people could post/read rant or vent type threads, people could post back with support or disagreement, etc. BUT the forum is not archived - maybe not even held for anything more than 24 hours. Something like a DU "complaint chalkboard" where you can post that crap when it comes to mind, but then you get a "clean slate" when the post drops off after 24 hours or something. I dunno. But I agree with the OP. Personally, I prefer to read the fact-based, debate style threads, but that's just me. Would be nice if there was an outlet for bile that was separate from the larger GD board.

Mostly

On Edit: corrected two typos.

[TWiley]

20. We live in a world full of .... Lazy and Emotional .... people.

So, how do you plan to cope with this fact? Suicide or murder?

Your "morals" will only result in one thing: You will constantly be offended by those whom you percieve to be beneath you.

The suffix of the word "relationship" appears to mean "the art, the skill, or the craft of. The "skill of relating" to those "beneath" you? The "art of relating" to those less intelligent? How about (gawd forbid) relating to an "ugly person", or a retarded person?

Are you up to this challenge, or do you plan to only bitch about life as it actually is? Unfortunately, I think the overall plan IS to learn how to appropriately relate to all kinds of folks, even if it means to simply ignore them.

[kiraboo]

23. I'm newish here, but I don't see the problem.

When I want news, I go to the news discussion. For opinion, I click on the editorial section. I know when I enter general discussion that some postings there will be nothing but a rant and frankly, sometimes that is exactly what I'm in the mood for. I'd hate to think that DU would try to eliminate the aspect of the site that makes it something of a haven or refuge for folks like me, simply because we want to APPEAR rational and in control at all times. But maybe I don't understand the function of the site.

[paineinthearse]

27. I'll provide another example

Posts like "soldier flies pizza to girlfriend" in LBN and "sports fan cuts off own testicles" in GENERAL (I kid you not, both were posted today) received more attention then serious informational posts such as Ralph Reed-related Indian casino gambling/fundy duplicity.

I like the "rating" idea, anything to reduce the amount of "frivolous" posts (that otherwise belong in the lounge) and give serious ones a better chance of not sinking into the archives.

[bpilgrim]

24. Allow EVERYONE to rate all posts

this will provide POSITIVE and NEGATIVE reinforcement to encourage folks to post more details... it also will allow us busy folks to filter out the fluff and read just the most valued posts as judged by the community as a whole and not just a few dictators.

slashdot uses this kind of system very effectively and 0 posts get deleted =)

peace

[Lone_Star_Dem]

25. This idea was already discussed at DU

The proposal.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3055908


The decision.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3058553


In a nutshell, if it's not broke don't fix it.

[nolabels]

26. Thanks for the update

I think that is good advice and as a mechanic that is one my mantras "if it's not broke don't fix it"