The instances of assault (including sexual) in Nursing Homes

[burythehatchet]

appears to be on the increase.

Question: Should registered sex offenders be allowed to live in a facility without letting the patient population know of their status?

I don't have a position but would like to gauge public opinion.

[candle_bright]

1. I believe the patients have the right to know

If we have the right to know if registered sex offenders are living in our neighborhoods, the residents of a nursing home should too.

[Crazy8s]

2. In Florida Nursing Homes are required to check

the status of job applicants in regards to sex offender status. I work in a SNF, and our office checks on all applicants.

BTW, residents also have the potential to be sex offenders. We are required to check their status, too. There are also residents with dementia who display inappropriate sexual conduct, which can include molestation of other residents.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[burythehatchet]

7. I used to be the ED at a AL/Alz facility and it was a real struggle

to get a few residents to keep their pants on.

[burythehatchet]

9. so if the staff knows, should the residents also be told?

[DulceDecorum]

13. At that particular point in their lives

most of the residents of nursing homes have no control over their lives. They simply do as they are told.
Telling them that there is a sex offender in the house will only upset them and increase the need for sedatives.
It is not like they can do ANYTHING about it. Or anything else for that matter. They are ALL at the mercy of the staff and that is all there is to it. Can't buck the system. Just go with the flow.

Another story.
So this big wig who used to be on the State Supreme Court had a wife who died. Mr Ward Cleaver knew nothing about laundry or cooking since his wife had always taken care of that end of the business.
The housekeeper quit because he treated her in a very condescending manner and would not give her the same allowance he had given his wife for the upkeep of the house. Mind you he still expected his suits to be dry cleaned after each use etc etc and would lose his temper when this did not come to pass. Plus he missed his wife.
So push came to shove and he entered this residential facility where they assured him that he could come and go as he pleased etc etc.

The first time I saw him I did not realize he was a resident.
He was wearing a very nice designer suit and doing the crossword with a gold pen. he had a very expensive-looking watch and some really cool cuff links. Imagine my surprise when the activities assistant, a young girl barely in her twenties, came up to him and asked him to please stand up and join in dancing the Hokey Pokey. Well, he sent her packing and I was squarely in his corner.
A few days later I saw a small conference take place. Apparently the nursing staff was very concerned because he had not surrendered his valuables.
Some months later I again visited that nursing home and I made it a point to walk the corridors so as to catch a glimpse of him. I passed him several times. He had to be pointed out to me. I did not recognize the unshaved, unkempt, hobo who was wearing old and torn mismatched sweatpants. Apparently ALL of his clothes were "too nice" to wear in the home so they had given him clothing that had been left behind by residents who had died. He had tried to run away and had been found sleeping in some all-night pancake place and so he no longer had his car keys. Since he then became very loud and belligerent, he was kept sedated for his own good.

And all that man ever needed was a decent housekeeper who reported only to his accountant.

Your turn is coming.
Contact your State representative.

Remember, the nursing staff CANNOT buck regulations,
and those who do are dishonorably discharged.
Ask the nursing staff and the residents WHAT THEY WANT DONE.
And then go out and DO IT.

[specter]

3. Sex Offenders

Should have the same rights as anyone else who has been charged and convicted of a crime;however this is not the case. Unfortunately the dirty lil ol men no longer can stay in nursing homes, nor can they rent a home, nor can they get the legal protections that most of the citizens of this country enjoy hell even convicted murders get a better deal than most convicted sex offenders. Nobody understands the moral behind the scarlet letter.

[DulceDecorum]

6. That is because most people

would rather DIE
than be raped.

I do not know which State you are referring to,
but let me go on record as saying that sex offenders are NOT,
to the best of my knowledge,
denied medical care or convalescent care.
That means that they can be admitted into hospitals just like everyone else and if the hospital recommends it, then they can be transferring into a nursing home, just like everyone else.

But maybe you have other information.
I must admit that I have not exactly been looking out for that particular population.

[specter]

10. Well you

need to check into the new florida statutes being suggested by jeb. And they do deny nursing home care to sex offenders. Go here to enjoy more of the so called great treatment some people get after they are sentenced and then branded a sex offender. If you have a family member that has this issue you educate yourself and dont make uneducated claims about what is going on. Denial of basic human rights is on the rise when it comes to sex offenders and let me remind you that all sex offenders are not rapists. Some are people that get caught peeing in the street or streaking or maybe even a 17 yr old son who dates a 14 yr old girl. All sex offenders are not rapists so please dont perpetuate the lies that the politicians and law enforcement want you to believe. Educate yourself and understand that some sex offenders have loving, caring families that are affected by a law that has not reduced sex crimes in this country but instead created a new class of citizen that has no chance of re-entering society as a productive member.

http://www.geocities.com/eadvocate/issues/index.html

[DulceDecorum]

11. You seem

to be very upset about this and believe me when I say that I have some idea of the situation.
I have spoken about a certain nursing home where a little old man felt the need to physically accost the ladies.

A close acquaintance of mine assisted some little old lady there who was about to be penetrated by Lothario.
This person was fired and they were compelled also to make a court appearance where much was made of the fact that the person had tucked Lothario back into his boxers and zipped his pants up.

The person was accused of touching Lothario inappropriately, since this all occurred in an open hallway while several of the nursing home residents were screaming at Lothario to stop molesting the lady.

Well, that person DID touch Lothario,
and so their name now appears on the local sex-offender list.
And I am PISSED ROYAL.

Mind you, nothing was said of the fact that this same individual also pulled that lady's undies up, and straightened her dress, ALSO in full view of the other residents.
Apparently it was perfectly OK for HIM, YES a MALE!! to touch a lady THERE in public but it was not OK for him to deprive the residents from viewing the tumescence of Lothario.
Neither family forced the court appearance. That came about at the discretion of the local District Attorney.

In that particular State, many of the nursing home workers are not unionized and have no hope of ever joining a union,
but let me tell you ALL here and now,
I would walk off the job TODAY and picket for that person any day of the week. And Grammy and Grandpa better get with the program if they want people like that DECENT And CARING PERSON to continue taking care of them.

Contact your State representative now.
The nursing home resident you save, may be YOU.

[amazona]

16. oh please most would rather not die than being raped

Certainly I would not choose to be dead now, nor would the many many many many other women I know who have been victims of sexual assault prefer to be dead.

Rape is bad, no doubt about it, but hysteria about "the fate worse than death" is self-fulfilling.

I refuse to accept that my life is worthless because I was a victim of some one else's crime. I don't see the value of putting such thoughts in people's heads, for the only purpose it serves is to depress and disempower.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[DulceDecorum]

18. TRUE

I should have worded that statement differently,
and you were correct to call me on it.

I do NOT want anyone to think that their life is worthless
or even permanently impaired,
as the result of a particularly bad experience.
Humans are amazingly resilient.
Take at look at yourself, for example.

In certain communities, the penis and testes of the rapist are removed, wholesale,
and then they are preserved. When the process is complete the mummified item is placed in a box. An entourage of males ranging in age from an infant to the oldest mobile elder,
then proceed to the abode of the aggrieved.
The men apologize to the victim,
on behalf of all those who have ever
and all those who who will ever
and all those who currently own a penis.
They then present the offending organ to the victim as proof that this event will never take place again.
After this, the rape is never officially spoken of again and if anyone slanders the victim, they have but to hand the box to the nearest male and point out the forked tongue.
If the rapist absolutely cannot be found, then a donation is obtained from the local sleaze bucket whose family then continues the search for the real rapist until the end of their natural lives.
As you can imagine, bottom-pinchers are pretty much non-existent in these communities, since no-one is actively looking to have their name brought up as a potential donor, should the need arise.

Allow me to quote the opening statement of a popular TV show.
"In the criminal justice system, sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous."

When it right down to it,
society, as a whole,
DOES treat sex offenders WORSE than murderers.

I hear that sex offenders fare particularly badly
when mainstreamed into the general population of ANY prison.
Remember Father Geoghan?
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2003/12/02/behind_walls_trouble_built_to_a_brutal_end/
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2003/08/25/geoghan_was_tied_beaten_officials_say/
How many here are weeping?

People just do not like sex offenders.
And once that label has been applied,
it is pretty much there for the duration.
Even when the offender is old, and toothless,
and about to be denied admission into a Florida nursing home.

As far as I know,
there is no requirement anywhere
for a convicted murderer to inform the community of their presence.

As a matter of fact,
I am having difficulty thinking of
ANY other crime
that requires offenders to inform the community of their presence.
Can you think of any?

[DulceDecorum]

5. This is so dicey

I know of one nursing home that was shut down because of this old geezer who kept grabbing the little old ladies and doing the nasty.

So the nurses and Nurse Aides would physically remove him,
and his manhood, from Grammy.
And they would all get fired for doing so.
It seems that the state REALLY MEANS IT when they say that you are not allowed to put hands on, or physically restrain a nursing home resident FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER.

Now, once you have been arrested and or cited for abuse, that is the end of your career. You are seen as a predator and you will never be given a change to explain. Just hit the road Jack, don't let the door hit yer, and and don't you come back no more.

So the next crop of nurses and nurse aides allowed Lothario to do as he pleased and they all got fired as well.
It seems that the State considers it negligence when you know that an assault is occurring and you do NOT intervene to prevent it. And somehow or other calling the cops was not seen as sufficient. It was seen as passing the buck especially since the old geezer posed no physical danger to the big healthy staff who could easily have subdued him had they chosen to do so.

The third crop of nurses and nurse aides were VERY hard to come by. Serious head hunting form other towns and the neighboring state did manage to drag in a few unsuspecting persons.
This lot is what got the place shut down.
It seems that they would ALL IMMEDIATELY VANISH, for HOURS AT A TIME whenever Lothario started acting horny. Then they each would all turn around and say that they were not on that floor when the assault occurred. That was how they kept their jobs and their careers.

Now I am sure you are going to ask why they did not simply get rid of Lothario.
They couldn't.
There are very stringent laws concerning dumping people from nursing homes because in most cases most people die soon afterwards because they are unable to care for themselves.

Also, in many instances, the sex offender has few choices as to where to live. As far as I know, there are no facilities that specialize in the care and feeding of elderly sex offenders and I hardly imagine the pay that they would have to shell out to get ANYONE in their right mind to work there. So these people are mainstreamed into the nursing homes along with everyone else.

In the case of the nursing home that could not evict Lothario, it was eventually shut down because the State ruled that it was unable to care for the scores of little old ladies who called it home. So they shipped everyone off to other nursing homes and Lothario got shipped out too.
He has his rights, you know.

Then the local TV station said that the place had been closed down because the nurse aides had been sexually abusing people.
TV station had its teeth handed back to it by the proctologist who extracted them from the far reaches of the colon. Suffice it so say, that MANY AND SEVERAL apologies and retractions were given to the people who have chosen to help Grammy and grandpa when the going gets really tough.

The trouble with the majority of these institutions is the fact that the people who work there have their hands tied. And there is NOTHING that they can legally do to circumvent many of the occurrences.
Kristen Gilbert was a nurse who wound up killing several of her patients in her quest for attention. The nurses who worked with her quickly became suspicious and reported their fears to the VA but they were silenced. Finally, when outsiders began questioning the deaths, the VA hospital caved in and had a look.

I am sorry if I have not given you comfort, but this is a problem that needs to be addressed and lashing into the nursing staff is NOT the way to go.

Better you should ask the question,
WHAT CAN WE DO TO STOP THIS??
and ask it to the people who work there.

You will be surprised at the AVALANCHE of SENSIBLE ANSWERS you will receive and also at that fact that most of them do not involve money.
Contact your local state representative.
Ask them the hard questions.
Remind them, that there is ALREADY enough of a turn-over in staff at these places. Ask them why no-one wants to work there. And why those that do are forced to leave.

[burythehatchet]

8. you neatly summarized the entire debate

in fact, the advocates for the offenders say that the state's regs should be sufficient to protect the residents. As you so eloquently described, that is not the case. So what do caregivers resort to...more meds. Its a disguisting problem. btw, it seems you have a history in the long term care environment, you might be interested in my new website http://www.ltcrisk.com/site/default.aspx

[Sgent]

12. Maybe its different

in your state, but couldn't the nurses have gotten an order to restrain the offender?

With that, they should have been ok (even if they called the doctor and got a verbal order).

I agree the nurses shouldn't have been fired for calling the police. But there have been so many abuses in hospitals and nursing homes, that you have to have an order to use physical restraint.

[DulceDecorum]

14. I really do not know the politics

of the situation.

Also, I am under the impression that the residents of nursing homes have a perfect right to express their sexuality and this expression of a basic human need is not grounds to allow staff to restrain that resident.
No-one ever wanted to use the word RAPE.
And believe me when I say that those ladies did NOT consent
and they were wont to voice their refusal at the top of their lungs.

The way I understand it,
the aggressor has rights which much be protected. Screw the victim.
And that goes for the ENTIRE legal system in America today.

I have been given to understand that the family of one of the little old ladies tried to take out a restraining order but this proved impossible. I think it was because it simply could not be implemented.
They both lived on the same floor and her room was close to the nurse's station and the elevator.

The other floors REFUSED to have him, and several of those families DID institute restraining orders, but believe me when I say that when it came to his own floor,
he was MASTER of his domain.

I would also like to state that Lothario was NOT a registered or convicted sex offender. He was just a horny old man who might have been in the early stages of dementia.
I say this because you might move your Grammy out of her nursing home because you have just been informed that one of "those people" just moved in and you might then place your Grammy in the room across from Lothario who nobody warned you about.

[Sgent]

15. I meant a medical order

A physician can give an order to restrain a patient for 4 hours over the telephone (chemical or physical restraints). I would be shocked if there was not a physician on call at a nursing home (violation of JACHO and Medicare Rules). It can be renewed up to 72 hours with an onsite physician visit every 12 hours.

After that, you either look at transfering him to an alzhiemer's unit, or have him arrested, or to a unit with better facilities to handle this type of person.

Due to historical patient abuse, using physical restraint is very restricted.

I'm not saying that the situation was good (it obviously wasn't); however, the closing of the nursing home seems appropriate from the information provided above -- they didn't take the neccissary actions to insure the saftey of all of their patients. I know this sounds harsh, but I've been in to many long-term care facilities which should have been closed yesterday.

[DulceDecorum]

17. It was an ongoing problem.

How many times would you have called the doctor?
PER DAY??

The thought of feeding Lothario a daily ration of saltpeter might have been more effective (but highly illegal.)
If they could have tied him up, Lothario would have had more bandages than King Tut.

Lothario did not have Alzheimer's or anything else that they could have used to transfer him out of that facility. He was just simply horny and surrounded by women who could not defend themselves. His penis was working better than Bob Dole's has ever done and that is not considered to be a "problem."
As for the arrests, for some reason, the caregivers are the ones who usually wind up in the fire.

For example, an adult with developmental disabilities may have been deemed legally incompetent. This adult may then develop an interest in another adult with the same issues and they might both demand that they be allowed to have sex together. Now, if the staff allows this, then that is considered statutory rape and the staff person gets into very serious trouble. If, on the other hand, the staff REFUSES to allow this occur, then that staff person STILL gets in trouble because they have completely and totally infringed on the rights of those two consenting adults.

Here is another instance of regulations colliding.
Do you lock the wheels of a resident when you are not pushing them?
All the nurses will say yes. Safety.
All the activites people, and human rights officers will say no. Restraint.
Go figure.

Or take this one.
Granny has osteoporosis. Her bedroom is upstairs and she is going out for an important social function. You are the Home Health Aide who has been caring for her and you are going to accompany her to this function. At the top of the stairs she becomes dizzy and slowly begins to tip down-wards.
What do you do?

Those of you that grabbed her, can turn your badges in right now. You are NOT allowed to restrain ANY of your patients for ANY reason whatsoever. Plus you knew darn well that she has osteoporosis and that you could cause harm by laying hands on her.
Those of you that allowed her to fall can also turn in your badges.

Honestly, some days the only way to stay out of trouble is to simply avoid working in that field altogether. Or, since you are going to step in it no matter what you do, as one nursing student put it, "pick the smallest pile of sh*t," and claim the protection of the Good Samaritan law.
It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to comply with some of the regulations because they are mutually contradictory and you get nailed coming, going or standing still.
THIS is one of the MAJOR reasons why there is such a high turn-over in staffing in long-term care facilities. And ain't nobody interested in doin nuthin about it, other than blaming the staff, firing them, and putting want ads in the paper.

One other facility I know of had a slightly different Lothario problem.
The young man with serious head injuries could still remember what sex was all about and he harassed the nurses no end. He was known to rip out his IV or harm himself so as to cop a feel from the nurses attending him.
Finally OSHA stepped in and issued an ultimatum.
The brother of the young man came into the facility a few days later accompanied by a heavily made-up woman who he introduced to the staff as his being his brother's girlfriend. The couple then spent some time together with the door shut. The young man was very relaxed after she left, and so were the nurses.
She visited at least once a week and sometimes the nurses would call and tell her that the young man was missing her and she would make a special visit on that day.

One or two people claimed to have seen the girlfriend walking around in the twilight but the nurses would not hear of it. As far as they were concerned she was a saint who would boldly go where no-one else had any intention of going.

I agree with you over the places that should have been closed YESTERDAY. Some of those places are a violation of the Eighth Amendment. And Bush is not making it any better.
They have now cut the monthly glove allowance in half, even though a caregiver can legally refuse assistance if they have no gloves.
And it is only going to get worse.