Grandma likes cat food? I doubt it.

[politicaholic]

I grew up very very poor. How the hell am I supposed to know the first thing about investing my retirement money on the stock market?

By the mere suggestion that I do something that my parents were unable to teach me and IS NOT TAUGHT IN PUBLIC SCHOOL is an affront to my rights.

This social security policy is discriminatory on many levels, but especially it's class discrimination, which touches every culture, color, and inch of the United States.

No reparations came when corporations stole billions in 401k money. A precedent of aloof lack of compassion has now been set. Nothing will happen when corporations steal social security.

Acquire a taste for cat food now as a protest. If Bush wasn't able to kill you in your twenties with his Iraq War, make sure he won't be able to kill you in your eighties with his Class War.

[ultraist]

1. LMAO!!! (your thread title)

I agree! Privitization of Social Security is totally geared to the elitist. Who the fuck knows how to play the stock market? Those of us with undergrad degrees who work for a living or those who can hire the best brokers? Get real.

Regular Americans don't know shit about the stock market. Only the elite will benefit from this and the regular folk will get screwed and lose their money.

I have YET to meet a regular Joe that got rich off the stock market. It's people like Martha Stewart that make money off of stocks. Those that can afford the BEST brokers.

People are being delusional if they think they can jump into the stock market with no SM education and make much money. But it is very easy to lose a lot of money.

My husband and I own a small business, investment real estate. We have spent a great deal of time over the last ten years educating ourselves and keeping up the with current market. (Our undergrad degrees were a broad base that offered no expertise in any one area). We have done pretty well with our real estate investments, but neither of us would dream of investing BLINDLY in the stock market.

And of course, there is the obvious. It will be the BIG CORPS the REALLY benefit off of privitization, kinda like ENRON.

[prairierose]

2. Most America families will have to learn ...

to live together again....OY VEY Multigeneraltional families living in the same house will be the only way to deal with this on the practical level. Now granted, I don't have a problem with that (my family is a throwback to the 19th century) but I know that most people do not want to do this & they don't want to have to face the responsibility of supporting the aging members of their families. Unfortunately, in this country we no longer have this tradition and houses are not built with a "motherinlaw" apt.

I have been planning for this for the last year or so and especially since the last selection. I'm moving forward with plans to be able to bring the family together to consolidate resources and work together for survival.

[Cleita]

7. Multigeneration families all living together can be a good thing

if you have a big house and/or have property to do it. I live with my family. I have my own granny mobile in the back behind their property, so they are there for me if I need them, but mostly I am left alone. Unfortunately, today, many multi-generational families are often squeezed into a one bedroom apartment. What about them?

[prairierose]

8. Yes, that is a problem. that is why people need to

pay attention NOW and stop the madness or plan ahead for what is coming.

[Ezlivin]

3. My grandmother is not that finicky

But I make sure to give her some dry food to keep the plaque off her teeth.

[teakee]

4. Don't eat tuna, the mercury level will kill ya...

[htuttle]

5. I won't be eating any cat food when I retire!

I got a plan...

[Vinca]

26. That was one of my favorite movies!

And it may become a bona fide alternative if the Bush SS reform goes through. If you get really, really old and can't take care of yourself and your SS stocks have tanked, rob a bank and let the government fund you in your old age. It beats Fancy Feast.

[Cleita]

6. Maybe they should teach how to manipulate the stock market

in school, and all those other things you need to know to transfer money from the rich to the poor, using their own rules against them.

Well said. I once argued with a "moran", who had a college degree, about the need for universal health care. His position was that medical expenses could be countered with tax credits.

I pointed out to him that in order to pay taxes, one had to have an income to pay taxes on, something children, the sick and elderly often don't have.

All he said was that those people were too lazy to work and why should he pay for them. End of conversation. Now I go bang my head against the wall.

[cattleman22]

9. I grew up in a mobile home in apalachia

My parents did not invest in the stock market.


Yet, I wanted to become financially literate. I spent a year reading financial websites such as Morningstar.com to better understand the stock and bond market. I am 26 and for the past 6 years I have fully funded my Roth IRA.

Being ignorant is no excuse for remaining ignorant.

[cap]

11. just as long as you remember...

On Wall Street there are winners and there are losers.

Morningstar isnt where money managers on Wall Street hang out. I know.

[cattleman22]

15. I know

However, I feel that I at least have a basic understanding of investing now, even if still quite minimal.

[ultraist]

20. Investing in the STOCk MARKET is ONE TYPE of investing

There are other industries of investment, such as real estate.

My Social Security money will NOT be invested in the Stock market to inflate the bottom line for big corps. I have no interest in diverting my time from my business to learn how to play the stock market. I do not have the time to learn a new trade while maintaining my existing business. WHO has time to work two careers at once? I haven't seen too many practicing lawyers who also practice medicine, have you?

The ELITE have a big advantage as they can hire the BEST brokers. There is a built in bias in this proposed system to favor the elite.

If some chose to gamble their money blindly, that's their choice. But, if these same individuals end up with no retirement, it will be up to ALL OF US, the larger society, to ensure our elderly do not starve or go without shelter.

Democrats believe in social responsibility.

[cattleman22]

21. RE: "If some chose to gamble their money blindly"

This is what really bothered me about what Harry Reid said in his response to the SOTU. He said something about investing in stocks and bonds as being riskier than gambling in Las Vegas.

I believe that some democrats are doing a disservice to people by claiming that owning a small percentage of companies is riskier than gambling.

[Nadienne]

25. Be careful not to invest too much money

into companies like Enron.

I don't know whether stocks and bonds are riskier than Las Vegas... But I do know that there are at least two similarities between the stock market and casinos:

There is risk involved;

And the house always wins.

[ultraist]

27. Why don't you provide some facts on that cattleman, what about ENRON?

Countless investment plans big corps offered to their employees ended up flailing and employees were robbed blind.

Investing in stocks is NOT secure. Investment 101 teaches you that. If you want security go for treasury bonds, a CD, or a trust account. Reputable Investment advisors tell their clients NOT to invest in stocks unless they REALLY know what they are doing.

[cattleman22]

30. I never said there was no risk in stocks

However, in the past 120 years, there is not one single 50 year period in which an inflation adjusted 3.8% withdrawal of a 70% stock and 30% bond portfolio would have run out of money. This includes the Great Depression. Such a portfolio can be set up with very minimal fees.

Yes, I know that the past is not a measure of what the future holds, but it can give some decent guidelines.

[politicaholic]

14. I think you're running into a trap that a lot of republicans run into...

Not everyone has the time, patience, or capacity to comprehend the stock market. You see, you're comparing everyone to yourself. That's the wrong thing to do. The fact that you're smart enough, you probably don't work three jobs, and most likely don't have 5 kids might attribute to the fact that you do what you do.

Here's a what if...

You live in a place that has no public access to computers and you're too poor to afford one. You make so little that your social security benefit isn't worth a broker's time unless he ruthlessly slaps you with hidden charges and costs you more money than your benefit is worth. Then what?

Is ignorance the cause? No.

[cattleman22]

16. I should have been more clear.

I was responding to the OP's original post, particularly these points he made:


"I grew up very very poor. How the hell am I supposed to know the first thing about investing my retirement money on the stock market?

By the mere suggestion that I do something that my parents were unable to teach me and IS NOT TAUGHT IN PUBLIC SCHOOL is an affront to my rights."



I don't see why this is an affront to anyone's rights. Just because you will be expected to teach yourself, is not violating your rights.

[politicaholic]

18. It IS a violation of someone's rights if they don't understand...

You see, it's about exclusion. You can own a microwave and not know how it exactly works, but still make it function. If you took it apart and learned the pieces you would still not know how it works. Only when you put it back together the right way and it works is when you understand how it works. That is what the Bush plan is essentially doing. Here's a microwave. If you can't teach yourself to dismantle it and put it back together in perfect working order you will starve and it will be YOUR fault.

What % of the population do you think would be able to do that?

[cattleman22]

22. What specific right is violated?

I think we are having an argument over semantics rather than one of substance.
Hypothetically, if * were to get his SS plan passed, which I highly doubt, what rights would be violated?

[ultraist]

17. You were fortunate it came so easily for you, cattleman 22

Just as my husband and I are fortunate that investing in real estate has been good for us. We have no real concerns about retirement and we are 40. We also have a nice nest egg for our children's education.

But, this is not the case for most. Many people are too busy just trying to survive to learn how to play the stock market. Specialized Education is a luxury that many cannot afford. Only 23% of our populus earns Bachelor's degrees. Is this because they are too stupid or lazy? I think not.

Punitive attitudes towards those who face barriers to equal opportunity and higher education is not very Democratic.

[politicaholic]

19. thanks for understanding

:hi:

[cattleman22]

24. I agree, however, just because my parents were poor and uneducated

is no excuse for me to be poor and uneducated. The OP apparently has access to the internet and time to post on the DU. What is preventing a person like that from educating his or her self?

[ultraist]

28. There may be many barriers the point is:

There is a built in elitism in that proposed system of privitization. ONLY those who can learn how to play the market well benefit while those who can't for whatever reason, will lose big time.

Don't you see the institutionalized discrimination here? We are not talking about a free market, an every man for himself situation, we are talking about a SOCIAL PROGRAM.

Government run social programs should not be riddled with institutionalized discrimination.

Perhaps it's an unintended consequence, (I kinda doubt it though knowing a bit about Bush) but even if it is unintended, it's reckless to not evaluate this BEFORE it's implemented.

[cattleman22]

31. I personally do not think there should be private accounts

because there would be too much government intervention in limiting choices for investments.

But that is not what I was responding to. I don't see how any rights are being violated as the OP claims.


Even though the right might use this agaisnt SS, I think SS should become a welfare program. I think only those who are unable to provide for themselves should receive any benefits.



Edited for a huge mistake in the title. It should have read "...do NOT think..,"

[shrike]

32. Trouble is ...

Under bush's plan, choice is still limited -- to an array of funds that the gov't provides you. This is what bugs me: if it is truly my money, why can't I put it in a CD? Or gold, for that matter.

Since you are only 26, please remember: it's a long life. A lot can happen, including illness, death of loved ones, economic disaster and more. The time may come when you will appreciate government, and the things a social security plan can do for you.

[cattleman22]

33. I apologize, I missed the key word "not" in my last post

That is exactly why I do not like Bush's personal accounts. It is too limited of a choice.


I do recognize that SS does provide three different, yet important jobs.

1. Survivor benefits.

2. Disability benefiits.

3 Retirement income.


However, I still think that I should educate myself to the best of my ability to minimize the amount that I need to use SS myself and minimize the amount that my family will need to use SS.

[txaslftist]

10. You have to add milk to the dry kind.

[KamaAina]

12. Notice how Whiskas is introducing that new, meatier brand...

complete with lions, tigers, etc. lining up outside the suburban house in the ads...

Bad KamaAina! How could you even think such a thing?! :spank:

[Batgirl]

13. you must not have gotten the memo

that people who are poor and hungry must have done something to deserve it.

[China_cat]

23. That's the first lie.

You don't need to know anything about investing your retirement money. YOU aren't going to be allowed to touch it. Bush wants a whole new agency to invest your money for you.

Go back and read the proposals carefully. You'll see that you get NO input, NO control, NO decisions...and, in the end, no retirement.

[ultraist]

29. But they are offering a choice: Invest in stocks or don't

Only those that can read the market well or can afford a high dollar broker, will be armed to make wise investments.

Should one of our most important social programs benefit only people like Trump?

[China_cat]

34. No...the choice is

to let the GOVERNMENT invest your money in stocks or don't. It's a lose/lose situation.

[geniph]

35. The choice is not left up to the individual

The *government* will decide where the assets are invested. This whole "personal account" stuff is hogwash.

The government will invest them with whichever Wall Street tycoons want their back scratched for the campaign donations they made.

[LisaL]

36. Cat food ain't all that cheap.