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My epiphany about the Chimpster's popularity.

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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 09:51 PM
Original message
My epiphany about the Chimpster's popularity.
I had a small bulb go off over my head today while looking at one of the frequent images comparing "*" to a chimpanzee. And I thought I'd share it for commentary and enlightenment.

But first some background. I've read the Naked Ape and I believe that some of our social structures and habits are similar to those found in great ape social groupings.

A number of years ago I was at the zoo with a boyfriend. We got to the baboon exhibit and were tickled to see the various age groups all sitting together at the far left end of the island, grooming each other and generally having fun.

The mother's were suckling young and the juveniles were playing and causing mischief and everybody, including the humans were having a good time.

Suddenly the Alpha Male stalks into the baboon crowd from the right side of the island. The mothers move aside, the juvies scamper around him, but do not bother him. He gives a hard stare at the people at the viewing station but continues through the crowd. He moves to the tip of the island and sits with his back to the human and baboon crowd.

Now I know enough about social signals to know that we were being snubbed in a serious way. Sure enough, after a few minutes, he gave a huffing kind of bark and moves back through the crowd. They part, but as he passes they begin to fall in line in the following order: Mothers with young, young males, young females and then juveniles.

After the last of the juveniles walk off, the human crowd starts to follow (over to the next viewing station). My boyfriend starts to follow, but I stop him. He looks at me as if to question why. I say: "The head monkey wants all his monkeys to follow. I am not a monkey. I'm staying right here." His mouth fell open in surprise and he started to laugh.

When I saw the picture today it occurred to me; Shrub uses the kind of very broad facial gestures that would fit right in on that baboon island. The reason he is popular is that his carriage triggers that primal part of the brain that recognizes "Alpha Monkey". Folks who followed the baboon around the island would follow the Chimperor because their gut tells them to. They are still using monkey brain to make decisions.

I don't fall in line because I know I'm not a monkey. So his chest beating displays have no effect on me.

He's the Alpha Male. That's it...plain and simple.
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think you're on to something!
Loved reading it.
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riverwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. By Jove
I think you've got it. ;)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. No actually she didn't.
Did you read her post? She DIDN'T follow the crowd. Read it again, you'll get it.
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Sawber Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. The baboon
Edited on Thu Feb-03-05 11:31 PM by Sawber
did not want the crowd to follow, right? He wanted to lead his group to a little peace. The humans were just irritants to him.

Those humans that followed his baboon group were doing the opposite of what he wanted. She, on the other hand, helped him achieve his goal.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. Hi Sawber!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Alisa Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. me too!
Recently on (maybe) Air America there was a discussion about Bush being the "penis" (macho - but they used the word penis) for others in his administration, like Rove, for example. Your comments make me think of this. Interesting.
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clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think your explanation is as good if not better than any I've
heard or read about why people follow this person. By damn, you're right. He even walks like an ape with his arms held away from his body...but maybe that's because his bullet-proof vest is hurting. :-)

I'm happy to report that I'm not a monkey follower although I love monkeys, etc.
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. Domesticated Primates (people) adhere to Primate Behavior Norms...
...and the study of primate behavior is most illuminating. Many of our social and cultural behaviors can be observed in (other, non-human) primates.

The Alpha Male thing is there, but that is seen in other species too (e.g. canines). But with mating behaviors, parent/child relationships, and many group behavior patterns the correlation with other primates is very vivid.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. As for Dubya's popularity among the aspiring lower middle class
...does this sound like what he has to offer:

<snip>

We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municiple orders.

We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.

We demand freedom for all religious denominations in the State, provided they do not threaten its existence and do not offend the moral feelings of the .

<snipped from above these>

In 1920 Adolph Hitler outlined 25 points of the NSDAP program (the program of the National Socialist Party). Among the points was:

<more>

<link> http://www.rationalrevolution.net/understanding_fascism.htm
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Paul Levy's Articles - Depth/Social Psychology Insight Into *'s Popularity
Author Paul Levy has written a very illuminating series of articles that offer a depth/social psychology analysis of *'s popularity and support.

WHY DO BUSH SUPPORTERS DENY THE OBVIOUS?
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/bushsupporters.html

excerpt

...we have a criminal and traitor sitting in the White House pretending he is a patriot, wrapping himself in the flag.” The evidence of Bush and Company’s corruptness and duplicity is beyond overwhelming, and it is literally everywhere, staring us in the face. Why are so many people looking away and not noticing? I find myself no longer interested in trying to convince anyone of what a madman, criminal and traitor Bush is, though it’s not for lack of trying. What I find more fruitful is to contemplate why people who are supporting Bush are both unwilling and seemingly unable to see the evil that is playing out through him. People who follow Bush are in denial about something that to the overwhelming majority of the world could not be more obvious.

{b] The denial of people who support Bush is a form of blindness. People who support Bush are refusing to look at what is right in front of their eyes, an evil that they themselves are complicit in and participating in by their denial. People who are following Bush are acting out of their unconscious. It is as if they have fallen asleep and are dreaming, entranced by their own projections. It is as if they are bewitched, having fallen under a spell. They are living in what John Kerry calls “a fantasy world of spin,” ignoring and oblivious to any facts that contradict their worldview. It is exactly like they are hypnotized, like they are brainwashed. People who follow Bush are behaving exactly like members of a cult who have blindly and unquestioningly given away their power to their leader. They have left behind their critical thinking, dis-connecting from their capacity to discern truth from fiction. Not to mention selling their soul in the bargain. People who support Bush are suffering from a collective psychosis. Why else would they be supporting a madman for President? It is shattering to look in the mirror and see that we, as a people, have gone temporarily mad.

There is a psychic epidemic manifesting in our country right now, and millions of people in our populace have fallen prey to it. There is no sense pretending otherwise. It is of the most profound importance that we notice and understand the psychological nature of the collective malady that we, as a people, are suffering from. Understanding the psychological nature of our illness gives us insight into how to treat it.

THE BUSH CULT
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/bushcult.html

excerpt

People who support Mr. George Bush resist and turn away from the irrefutable and readily available evidence that Bush is anything but a good leader, as if they are in denial with a capital D. Bush is saying one thing and doing totally the opposite, and many people are simply in denial of this and look away. It is truly as if people who support Bush are not only in denial, but are actually refusing to look and hence, blind to what to most of the world is very obvious. It is as if people who support Bush are under a hypnotic spell, and are suffering from a form of collective brainwashing. People who support Bush in his pathology are exhibiting nothing other than the groupthink of cultic behavior.

Followers of a cult unquestioningly give their power away to their leader’s version of reality. People in a cult have dis-connected from their discerning wisdom, which is the ability to discriminate between the opposites, between truth and lies, between good and evil. In a cult, any sort of reflection of the leader’s unconscious shadow is not only not allowed, but is severely punished. The cult leader is typically insulated from people who disagree with him, not even wanting to come in contact and have any connection with people who have a different point of view. People in a cult exhibit complete and total denial with regard to any evidence that contradicts the agreed upon belief of the cult. This perfectly describes people who are following Bush as their leader. People who follow Bush are completely in denial about his truly criminal behavior.

There are always aspects of a cult that are kept hidden and secret, which is the mechanism that keeps its hierarchical power in place. In a cult, this inequality of power ensures that a form of abuse always gets unconsciously acted out. In a cult, the members identify with only one side of an inherently two-sided polarity, projecting out the marginalized shadow. Hence, people who disagree with the cult are seen to have fallen under the spell of the Devil. Members of a cult are convinced of the rightness of their point of view, which they consider non-negotiable. Hence, there is no room for the open dialogue and debate which is at the core of a true democracy. Cults will even suppress and distort science to serve their ends, just like the Bush Administration is doing for partisan political ends. And the cult leader is (arche)typically either identified with God or feels he has a special relationship with God. Cult leaders and their followers see themselves as agents of apocalyptic, end-time scenarios, which is one of the more disturbing aspects of Bush and his supporters from the religious right.

At their root, cults are based on a mass, collective unconsciousness which feeds and reinforces itself. The cult is of the nature of an infinitely-perpetuating negative feedback loop, fueled by its members’ (“the elect”) unwillingness and resistance to self-reflect, look in the mirror and see what they are doing. Because it is so insular and unable to integrate any reflections from the outside, a cult always becomes self-destructive and ultimately destroys itself. This is why it is an extremely dangerous situation if Bush and his cultic followers take over our country, as it will create endless, unnecessary suffering for all of us. Bush might not just take down our country but our very planet as well. Another name for cults is collective psychosis.

complete versions of the above articles, as well as more articles on Bush and many other topics are available at Paul Levy's website:

Awaken In the Dream
http://www.awakeninthedream.com/
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thinking about that and the chimp/baboon thing...
it's interesting to think about how he will NOT tolerate dissenters in his midst.

Seems very baboon like. (They might show him up. He could lose his "place" :shrug: )
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Americans in trance
Many psychologist-type people agree that a great number of Americans are sort of asleep in a trance-state. They see it as a trauma-induced trance resulting from 9/11. It makes sense to me that this is the case.

The most frightening aspect of the whole thing is how the administration works to keep people in trace and actually deepen it. GWB does it with the way he speaks, the way he elicits and feeds fear, the terror alerts and the non-ending assualt upon our social structure with threats to things such as social security, the judicial process, etc.

I don't know what it will take to wake people up. I suspect (and am afraid) that it will have to be some major screw-up by the administration to finally shake people out of their trance state.

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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Do you think that weird cadence way that he talks
is some kind of mass hypnosis thing? I refuse to listen to him but when I accidentially see those little sound bites of him on Keith or whatever, I'm always struck by that weird cadence. Gag -- he just makes me so sick.
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Yeah, I do think what you suggest is likely
Here's a post I wrote earlier tonight on that very subject -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3053964&mesg_id=3054158

I think his speech-writers and coaches know exactly what they are doing and they are extraordinarily technology-savvy, they very well know how to elicit a desired impression and response. It's kinds frightening, all the different ways we are being manipulated by them.

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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Google NLP or "Neuro Linguistic Programming"
NLP is a system that teaches that patterns of speech, emotionally anchored words, cadence, and sequencing all be used to induce trance.

a few interesting passages that relate to this idea...

from "The Killing of the King" by James Shelby Downard

Never allow anyone the luxury of assuming that because the dead and deadening scenery of the American city-of-dreadful-night is so utterly devoid of mystery, so thoroughly flat-footed, sterile and infantile, so burdened with the illusory gloss of "baseball-hot dogs-apple-pie-and-Chevrolet" that it exists somehow outside the psycho-sexual domain. The eternal pagan psychodrama is escalated under these "modern" conditions precisely because sorcery is not what 20th century man can accept as real.

Thus the "Killing of the King" rite of November, 1963 is alternately diagnosed as a conflict between "anti-Castro reactionaries and the forces of liberalism", big business and the big bankers, this-or-that wing of the intelligence community and so on. Needless to say, each of these groups has a place in the symbolism having to do with the Kennedy assassination...but the ultimate purpose of that assassination was not political or economic but sorcerous: for the control of the dreaming mind and the marshaling of its forces is the omnipotent force in this entire scenario of lies, cruelty and degradation. Something died in the American people on November 22, 1963-call it idealism, innocence or the quest for moral excellence. It is the transformation of human beings which is the authentic reason and motive for the Kennedy murder.

from "Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare" by Michael A. Hoffman II

The Occult Cryptocracy processes the Group Mind of the Masses mainly through ritual psychodrama. The alchemical and Rosicrucian command dogmas were literary works. In the course of receiving the establishment's accounts of...(the news)...a mental virus is implanted in many percipients. The hypodermic needle in this case is nothing more startling than a campfire story, only the campfire is the crackling electrical current of a television and the story is of our extinction.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Hitler was famous for it.
Most Germans could not say one sentance of what Hitler had said, after attending one of his speeches. What he said didn't matter, his words didn't matter. It was his hypnotic speech patterns.

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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. It's comforting to know that it's not just me
noticing this weirdness. I really think this guy is a monster, and I can't even watch him for analytical or "know your enemy" purposes. I've lived through 10 presidents now, and not one of them has affected me like this. Even "Tricky Dick" who was despicable.
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Syncronaut Seven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Less to do with 9/11
more to do with narcicism, greed, self interest, blind pride and rampant insecurity.
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IndyPriest Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I remember Kerry shouting in the last month of the campaign:
"Wake up, America!" He knew a big part of the country had fallen into a dangerous trance.
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Paul Dlugokencky Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bravo!
"TalkingDog", you are brilliant!

Too bad we don't have Roddy McDowell around to run as a candidate!
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
28. Hi Paul Dlugokencky!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. Sounds good
and really enjoyed reading about this event.
But there is something I still don't get - don't the head monkeys lose their status when they make a mess of things? Like put the whole group in danger and say stupid things?

The people who are following this head monkey are in heavy denial at the risk of their own safety. Something tells me they have veered from their primal need to even survive.
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. Head monkeys have to fight for their position.
If some other monkey challenges their dominance, they have to smack him down. They don't get demoted for a wrong decision, but if they make wrong decisions, they will pay since it is their prime responsibility to defend the troop.

The Chimpster doesn't have to do anything to maintain his position. And he doesn't even get a hair mussed from his many screw ups. Others pay the price. The sheeple are happy with that.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. Chimpster isn't popular.
Remember all those videos of happy Iraqis dancing in the streets shouting Saddam, Saddam. We had our version of that last night.

It's all staged and propagandized. Bush is so well guarded because he and his creepers know he is a walking target. That is not a popular baboon.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-05 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. Except he's not
Yes, that's the "political identity" that the Republican Party is grooming for itself and Bush. But it's phony. Bush is the pompous, lying weasel that any self-respecting woman can see coming a mile away. Bush is a packaged "alpha male". Why can't people see that? And is there any such thing in the animal kingdom?
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K rock Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
23. He's not the Alpha Male...
He just plays one on T.V.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Yes, my feeling exactly
What alpha male? Ha! I've met real alpha males, and they inspire love
and humility. He is an alpha thug of the lower brain at best, of the
hypothalmus party... :-)
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-05 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
29. Wow, great insight!
I'm going to be watching for this now.
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