Has anyone seen or heard about a study that concludes "some " alcoholics

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

can actually have an occasional drink without relapsing? The other finding was that up to half of all alcoholics who quit drinking can succeed without outside (think AA) intervention.

I saw this report on CNN a few days ago and, so help me, I thought this was a study designed to explain and reassure the sheeple about gwb's occasional benders, which may be becoming more and more difficult to cover up.

Since I saw that item, I haven't read or seen anything else around it. Does anyone here know anything else regarding this "study"? Thanks all. MKJ

[acmejack]

1. This appears to be the authoritive document

"Substance Abuse: The Nation’s Number One Health Problem,”
Institute for Health Policy, Brandeis University,

[LosinIt]

2. Oh sure, and Ernest Angley can also save alcoholics

I just saw it on the T and V. He can also cure AIDS I heard him claim. Shouldn't that be criminal?

I drive my family crazy by watching Ernest most Sundays. I consider it black comedy. How stupid can people be?

[verdalaven]

8. Have you heard on AAR

that hypnotist's commercial claiming she can cure alcoholism with one of her programs? I really wish that AA would do a follow up commercial to counter hers and pay to have it played after hers, every time.

[verdalaven]

3. I haven't seen the study

But my father is an alcoholic that never went to AA to quit. While he fought that demon on his own, the other demons go unchecked. He sometimes lapses into the erratic or abusive (verbally) behavior that highlighted his drinking years. But he never drinks. He says he dreams about it, but is afraid to start again.

I'd be interested to read that study too, if it actually exists. It has the potential for being very dangerous for many alcoholics that have come to depend on AA and staying dry in order to have normal lives, by giving them an excuse to quit and have the "occasional" drink.

[Mikimouse]

9. There is a difference between being dry and being sober...

The sober people I know are generally (not always, of course) happier than those who are simply dry and think about it all the time.

[verdalaven]

15. So I am learning......

I live 2200 miles from my parents so all I can do is sympathize with my Mom over the phone. He is not a happy man, that is for sure.

[Mikimouse]

19. My brother and father are still 'out there'...

both functional alcoholics, but when they are without, the mood changes pretty drastically. My father is 81 and it is not possible to get him to recognize that his brutality is linked to his drinking. I feel very sorry for them both, and laugh when they try to convince me that I am not really an alcoholic, and that it is OK for me to drink a beer with them. I dont'. I enjoy sobriety and have done so for a relatively short time (11 years, 6 months and 8 days).I wish you the very best in dealing with this situation.

[verdalaven]

35. Thanks-I wish you the best too.

[WillowTree]

18. This is only my personal experience, verdalaven ...

....but neither drinking nor quitting changes a person's basic disposition. My ex was a nice, affable guy and was pretty much that way whether he was actively drinking or not. Conversely, my sister's ex is bassically an asshole and just tends to be an even bigger asshole when he's drinking.

Your Dad may have two se
Take that, however, with a giant grain of salt based on the fact that, like I said, that is only my personal, unprofessional observation. I could be full of it. It wouldn't be the first time.

[NMDemDist2]

4. as a 13 year sober alcoholic, I wouldn't want to take the chance

too many stories of long time sober drunks "slipping" and finding themselves in medical distress as though the years of sobriety had never happened. IE esophageal hemorrhages or liver failures like they had been drinking all those years. It is a progressive disease whether you are drinking or not....

[Junkdrawer]

5. Hmmm...Sobriety must threaten the cabal somehow...

Can't have people thinking clearly...

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

22. LOL, it's ok, just one drink won't hurt..n/t

MKJ

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mikimouse]

7. Sure...just like Naltrexone is supposed to take away the high...

What works for some is not necessarily going to work for others. Not my place to judge anyone else's recovery program. For me, the acceptance of the problem was cathartic, and tha came through exposure to others in the same position. AA, however, was never meant to be a way of life, as mnay believe (and many also practice). Even Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob wrote it so in the Big Book of AA. My rule of thumb is this: If I ever thought that I could drink again, I would already have relapsed. The act is moot.

[Tigress DEM]

10. I've heard about these, but...

Here's the thing:

Genetically, there is a specific chromosome in the DNA structure that is affected in people who are truly physically addicted Alcoholics - just as in anyone who is allergic to a substance has a real physical reason for their allergy.

There may be people out there who are able to control their drinking because of their determination, but if they have this chromosome out of whack they crave alcohol once they touch it and have a higher capacity to ingest it, so it really isn't a good idea regardless.

AA puts the emphasis on what they know works because people CAN control their drinking and still be Alcoholics. I guess we're talking about the "ism" here.

Remove the alcohol and they will find another addictive substance or behavior unless they take steps to find the root cause of their need to anesthetize.

I know these things because my first husband was in AA when we met, went to treatment and was training to become a Chemical Dependency Therapist and had to learn all this stuff in pharmacology.

And even though he knew everything I just told you he blew all that and several times afterward was probably up to blood alcohol levels approaching lethal.

When he wasn't drinking and not in AA, he would abuse prescription medication or use sex as a drug.

My point is if someone thinks they might have a serious problem with alcohol, it just isn't worth the risk to themselves or their loved ones to play Russian roulette with their sobriety.

[K-W]

11. Havent seen the study, but it is probably true.

The idea that alchoholics cant touch alchohol has always been an unsupported myth.

It has always been known that some alchoholics quit on thier own and that some become moderate drinkers.

The argument for absitance isnt so much biological invevitability, simply aversion to risk, theres no chance you relaps if you dont drink. This logic is countered by those who think that teaching moderation is more effective.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. I know several alcoholics

who quit drinking without AA. But none who think it's okay to take a drink every once in awhile. That is crazy, IMO.

[pintobean]

17. I quit without AA.

14+ years now. I wouldn't dream of risking a single drink. You're right, that would be crazy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. AA is a wonderful program

but it isn't the answer for everyone. I know an alcoholic who used her minister to help her stay dry, another who got involved with martial arts as 'therapy' and another who just quit with no outside help. All three have been sober for more than 15 years.

Not everyone is the support group type.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

13. Found it...see snips and links below..

Study Shows Many Alcoholics Recover

Reuters Health

By Charnicia E. Huggins

Tuesday, January 25, 2005


NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Many people with alcohol dependence are able to recover completely, sometimes without formal treatment. Some may even be able to drink occasionally without relapsing, new study findings show.

"Evidence that low-risk drinking represents a recovery option for some individuals may prompt attempts to cut down on drinking among persons not ready to consider abstinence," study author Dr. Deborah A. Dawson, of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism told Reuters Health.

snip>

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_22576.html

Is the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism an offshoot of the NIH? MKJ

[WillowTree]

14. Such studies...

....tend to crop-up every few years. In my own experience over the past 30 years or so:

1) Saying that an alcoholic can have an "occasional drink" without relapsing is pure bunk. Anj alcoholic can quit completely, but the inability to control one's drinking once s/he starts is part and parcel of the disease. No reputable professional would ever tell a recovering alcoholic that he or she can ever drink again at all. Period.

2) Alcolics can quit on their own, but the help of a support group such as AA (and that's all that AA is, in the end) makes it much easier. There's no one-size-fits-all answer for all alcoholics, which accounts for why some can just quit on their own (like a girlfriend of mine), some need the support of an AA group only, and others, such as my ex, can have all the familial help in the world AND a six-week inpatient program AND an ongoing support group such as AA and still not be able to successfully quit drinking. Lots of factors involved, but it is possible.

[HuskiesHowls]

16. Do a Google search on the term "dry-drunk" and see the results

Its most interesting...of the first 20 results, 13 also mentioned the pResident's name.

Also, check out this article, from 2002.
http://www.bodydharma.org/choices/Bush/vanwormer.html

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

20. Excellent article. This was written over 2 years ago and seems more

relevant now than at that time. MKJ

[Tigress DEM]

21. My dad quit without AA, so did my Mom

But I don't think either of them were physically addicted to alcohol the way my ex-husband was.

My ex literally went into detox with a level of alcohol in his blood that was nearly lethal (it's been a long time ago, but I think it was like .04 where .01 is legally drunk and .05 is dead). They shot him up with valium to keep him from going into alcohol shock and he said, "Never again." It happened again and again.

My dad told me he looked at the bottle and he looked at me and said one of these has to go and I kinda like the kid. He put his Jim Beam up in the cupboard and only drank rarely after that. 2-3 times a year and never to the point of fall down excess, even though he used to go out with friends and get that drunk.

My mother quit after a friend tape recorded her saying awful things while drunk. She was so mortified she never drank to excess again.

I would say my parent's still had the "ism" until their deaths, but not the physical addiction, craving that I saw in my ex husband.

[On the Road]

23. I Like Stanton Peele's Approach

He treats addiction in behavioral rather than biological terms. One benefit of this approach is that it looks at behavioral addictions, like gambling, on the same basis as drugs and alcohol. And as a former behavioral psych major, this appeals to me.

One of the implications of this approach is that alcoholics often reform spontaneously, and while many never touch a drink again, many others learn to drink moderately.

A former girlfriend turned me on to his approach. She was a post-doc in addiction studies at Johns Hopkins and had several family members who were alcoholics. She saw the behavioral approach as being liberating as opposed to the straightjacket of biological determinism.

Here's a little more:

http://www.peele.net/intro.html

[ismnotwasm]

29. I would like Peele better

If he didn't have such a my way only attitude. The woman who founded moderation management, the one who relapsed, and killed someone while drinking and driving, I remember him being most unkind, saying something to the effect that she didn't follow her own program, and that's why it all happened. There a lot of ways to deal with addictive behaviors, but alcoholism, is a very dangerous condition to mess around with. AA, rational recovery, church, whatever works is OK in my book, but taking that first drink, or trying to control drinking does not work in a true alcoholic. I wish I was better a links and things, but I know the U of Washington had one multi million dollar study that basically concluded that one COULD control one's drinking---if you weren't an alcoholic yet. Peele tells them that they can. One the other hand, not every heavy drinker is an alcoholic, even AA acknowledges that these type of drinkers can stop or moderate their drinking without much help

[HuskiesHowls]

33. I don't agree with that approach for all cases

I know in my own case, I was not an alcoholic, but I sure could have turned into one. I realized I had a problem with alcohol and gambling, and I made a conscious decision to take care of things right then. I can take one drink, but its sure tough to stop there!!!

I really do believe that there is a genetic factor in all addictive behaviors like this, including smoking and drugs. In talking with several social workers, they have told me that there are studies that are looking strongly at that point of view. I don't know who did them, or where to find them, but it would be interesting.

The reason I feel this way is what I have to go through when temptation raises its head. I have to make a VERY conscious decision that one or two drinks is enough and that I DO have to stay away from any type of gambling.

[oneold1-4u]

24. Truth about DRUGS-religion

There should be re-enforced studies for young people in the schools so that they can learn everything known about addictive substances. When I was young it was smoking and certainly OK, and promoted by the government, movie stars, doctors and Johnny of Phillip Morris. Alcohol beverage today is getting the same promotions! It was against the law to advertise or promote it in OR for many years even though the state sells everything above 14%, but even the state now uses promotions and advertisements!
I was 30 YO when I learned that Europe destroyed China and all its history, with OPIUM. Youth should learn that to allow a substance to control any part of their life (lives) is not only detrimental but highly destructive to individual (s) and nations.
Religion (opiate of the masses) is the only other thing that has been more destructive in the reach of history! That too can be horribly addictive!
Alcohol, like sugar to a diabetic, is a killer to alcoholics.

[BernieBear]

25. I've benn to many funerals for relapsed alcoholics who thought one drink

wouldn't "kill" them. Well, it did. Suicide, depression, drunk driving accident, overdose... If you are a true alcoholic, you can not ever drink again. You see, you may control it today, or tomorrow or even next year, or for 10 years....but it's an insidious disease and the day WILL come when you are unable to "control" whether you have that next drink or not, and it may just turn out to be your last.

I remember that women who wrote the book about how she could teach alcoholics to control their drinking. She was a huge success because she "controlled" her drinking to 2 drinks at a time for several years. I wish I could remember the name of the group. Well, she killed a carfull of people drunk one night not too much after all her publicity and the start of her nationwide "groups". Dead. Once again, alcohol wins.

Alcoholism is a disease of the body AND the mind. When the bottle gets put down the alcoholic, like the gambler or the owvereater or other addicted person, must learn how to live without a self-defeating crutch. It requires change.

[Tinoire]

26. Probaby just Bush covering his steps in case photos get out n/t

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

31. You know, I can't get over that this study ended up in the msm, if only

briefly. My immediate reaction was that this was being reported to support a WH propaganda campaign. It may be tin foil, but it certainly caught my attention especially in light of our detailed discussions here at DU around gwb's alcoholism. MKJ

:tinfoilhat:

[NashVegas]

27. Seems Like If You Can Drink Without Taking It Over the Edge

you weren't an alcoholic to begin with.

[Nikia]

28. Probably

Some people go through heavy drinking phases in their life, but are not true alcohol addicts. Some people do become true alcohol addicts have no choice but to never touch alcohol again in order to stay sober. Genetics is a key factor and children of alcoholics should probably be careful never to enter a heavy drinking phase in the first place.

[Bouncy Ball]

32. Interesting. If that study was floated to set us up for something about

bush it will be interesting to see the bushbots suddenly develop all kinds of faux compassion for alcoholics.

Well, only for alcoholics who claim to have found Jesus and who have tons and tons of money and power.

The rest can still go fuck themselves, I'm sure, while they are pulling on their bootstraps.

As for the study, as someone who has unfortunately been around alcohoism more than I care to talk about (in others), I don't agree. That is NOT a safe practice and every time I have seen it tried, it has led to a relapse.

[BernieBear]

36. Yes, it will be interesting to see if GDub is imbibing publically

again. I have seen some work done at a predictive site that indicates his drinking may again become an issue in 2005. Maybe it's a trial balloon by his "minders". (Our Preznit and his minders... jeesh)

[American Tragedy]

34. I wouldn't recommend this, judging from my experiences and others

With most addictions, once you allow yourself to imbibe a little, then a little more, it is very difficult to bring yourself to stop there, because you don't want a little, you want all of it. From what I've seen, it's just not worth it if it amounts to torturing oneself.

I'm sure that some are able to moderate themselves, but you have to cut yourself off entirely for a while before ever attempting to reintroduce the substance. And many just can't do it. I wish I had a dollar for every time my aunt said she just wanted one glass.