The Question that needs asking...Why do they torture?

[DearAbby]

Has anyone questioned the reason the Neocons are adamant about torture? What information is that important that they have to torture people to get it?

Can't be where is Osama bin Laden, because a ordinary Iraqi would not know this information.

The weapons of Mass Destruction? There are none.

Where is the leader of the Iraqi insurgents? again an ordinary Iraqi would not know.

It's also a very questionable way to gain information. Someone in pain will likely just tell you what you want to hear. So why? :shrug:

[CindyDale]

1. IMO, it's purely pathological

[DearAbby]

2. That's the only thing I can think of too...

and it scares the crap outta me.

[undergroundpanther]

3. Because they are authoritarians

Neocons are bullies,sadistic,self absorbed narcissists.They have the kind of malignant,deceptive,controlling,anti-empathic,sadist personality that makes peace in any group of people be it,in a home or in a nation impossible. Democracy,peace,community ,cooperation,or good relationships cannot happen when there is a bully asshole con man fucking everything up and exploiting and trying to put himself on top.
Neocons torture because they really think they can get away with doing it,they get off on it,they are vengeful,are without moral character,and have no ethical boundaries and are sadists. Neocons do know right from wrong,and they choose to do wrong and don't care who it hurts as long as it never hurts THEMSELVES..
They are sociopaths. I think anyone who can fire people like a CEO does without ever feeling for the suffering of the ex employees has diminished his own humanity for money.Likewise a politician that can send other peoples kids to wa war they stir up for money has no heart,Likewise a baptist cultiee like Dobson advocating beating kids to make them submit is just another fuckin bully with a bible justifying his own evil heart's desire for control.

It's the clumsy sociopaths that let thier desires make them fuck up that end up in jail.

The real danger to any society is is in the slick sociopaths who can hide, cheat get rich and political so they can do the same brutal crimes that all bullies desire to do,to people on a grand scale and not be held accountable for it by anyone.They intimidate thier inner circles and isolate from anyone who would have the guts to expose thier crimes or stop thier abuses of trust..Political sociopaths are"popular" only because they have a posse willing to denty what they are,they have paid off sold out sycophants with no backbone or ethics who are pathetic ,They got comprimised scared to lose thier cushy job pr people to lie for them on TV and we live in a culture built on cocercion , taught from day one to play make believe about whart a bully is.Too many of the American people have Stockholm syndrome and suffer from abuse in relationships,or have damage from sy=uffering through past abuses so they have no clue when they are being conned used or dehumanized by an asshole,and can't draw clear boundaries that respect themselves ...while others want control and seek to be rich,bullies and dominate others like the neo cons do.

The Neocon torture is a symptom of our sick character as a nation ,the symptom of abuses to millions of individuals expressing in a collective form.We have bold sociopath leaders( paternal abusive strong men) because we as individual people don't protect each other on a human level anymore,we do not stand up to asshole bosses,con men bullies or abusive people in our lives really,and we let them get away with thier crimes.

[jdots]

5. panther you said it all so well

I think about why we are such sheep(not Duers) and mean sheep that don't care for each other.The technology has grown so fast and been made so cheap to purchase because the labor that makes it gets cheaper.The neocons have a fine way to not see life from any other view point than thiers.They torture because they don't have to hear it,see it,feel it or deal with it.They have someone else do it for them.

[oblivious]

6. That's a rant worth reading. You describe them so well.

[Orsino]

7. Yep, it's a symptom rather than a plan.

The system that ordered the invasion of Iraq is incapable of respecting human rights.

[KayLaw]

14. Yes

I'd just like to second the idea that a lot of powerful people got where they are by being ruthless. On a fitness forum I visit, one woman's sig line reads, "To have what few others have, one must be willing to do what others will not." She means exercise but there's another, more sinister, way to look at it.

[theorist]

4. I'm not sure, so I can only guess.

This is a serious question, and one that I've never really heard addressed. That might be because it is deplorable regardless of the reasons. Here are some of my thoughts on torture and the "war on terror(-ism, -ists)".

From the way the torture memos read, it was a forgone conclusion. They knew they were going to torture various men and women, so they had to come up with a CYA trail for the inevitability of any covers being blown. This is the mentality of many who share the idelogies of fundamentalism.

When fighting an insurgency, as in Iraq, it is impossible to effectively use torture as an intelligence gathering method. By the time the guy is being tortured, the few allies he even knows - probably no more than 3 - within the "terrorist organization" have gone under the radar completely. (This assumes that the torture victim is even guilty of anything, of course, and that's a big assumption.) As you mention, under torture, almost anyone will say anything to make the pain stop and not happen again. This may mean naming the names of family members, neighbors, acquaintances - anything! They'll then round up whoever is mentioned, and things cycle out of control.

The resulting debacle is completely by design. The guilt of the detainees is never under question. Most are innocent of any crimes, but it is probably seen by the occupying power as a way of throwing their weight around. "If they aren't criminals, they certainly won't be now!" is probably typical of most in the bush admin. As we're seeing, nothing could be further from the truth.

Torture is not a method used by an occupying power desperate for intelligence. It comes about from an air of hubris towards, and a lack of respect for, the occupied inhabitants. It is always a mistake.

[izzie]

8. It is way over my head. They cut off heads and say

some of it is because we torture. Now what does that mean? The man walks out of a Church or any religious building and goes for killing and water boarding? I can recall the boys blowing up frogs when I was a kid and they always said they have not feelings. I guess it is that. If some one can say he is not like me and have my feeling I may do as I please with them. Must have something to do with it as that is where we put people we wish to kill or even animals we wish to kill.Empathy?

[DrRang]

9. Snipe Hunting

Apparently most of this stuff was going on about a year ago, at least that we know about, so maybe they were getting increasingly frantic at not being able to find a convenient pile of WMDs.

[CindyDale]

10. Psychopaths lack empathy

and sadists want to hurt others. I've read that most psychopaths are not sadists and that most sadists are not psychopaths (think I read that in a true crime book by Gary Provost). When psychopaths also happen to be sadists they are terribly destructive, it said.

I don't know it's true or not, but I think I remember reading that the military identified psychopaths and placed them in certain positions in WW II, for example.

[izzie]

11. That is interesting and I read this---

The EU liked to get kids from street gangs as they like war and killing and the trained up to be good killers. I was a little shocked by that. I know from having been married to a service man that their are men in the service that like the killing or say they do. Also have you ever read that Stanford College study? Very interesting on how every day people act if you put them in the place to act out.

[mogster]

12. They want the world to hate the US, that's why

In my arm-long list of things that don't ring true about this administration, the pictures of young Americans photographed in unspeakable situations while smiling insanely, tops the list.

Every modern research shows that torture produce flawed intel, if anything useful at all.

But if you look at it through the warped logic of the neo-men with no limitations, it makes sense.

They managed to split the Muslim world and the Christian world.
Then they managed to split the Americans and the Europeans (and for that matter; the Europeans and the Europeans).
And of course they've managed to split the American people as well.

Divide and conquer.
A recipe as old as mankind itself ;-)

[TWiley]

13. That is the way Christians have always done it

Christians have an exhaustive collection of mannuals which include the Holy Inquisition, and the Salem Witch Trials. No other religion has such a complete rescource.

They do it because it is sexually gratifying.