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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 07:37 AM
Original message
Amen!! (MUST read)
Dr. Robin Meyers' Speech to students at OK University

As some of you know, I am minister of Mayflower
Congregational Church in Oklahoma City, an Open and
Affirming, Peace and Justice church in northwest
Oklahoma City, and professor of Rhetoric at Oklahoma
City University. But you would most likely have
encountered me on the pages of the Oklahoma Gazette,
where I have been a columnist for six years, and hold
the record for the most number of angry letters to the
editor.

Tonight, I join ranks of those who are angry,
because I have watched as the faith I love has been
taken over by fundamentalists who claim to speak for
Jesus, but whose actions are anything but Christian.

We've heard a lot lately about so-called "moral
values" as having swung the election to President
Bush. Well, I'm a great believer in moral values, but
we need to have a discussion, all over this country,
about exactly what constitutes a moral value -- I mean
what are we talking about? Because we don't get to
make them up as we go along, especially not if we are
people of faith. We have an inherited tradition of
what is right and wrong, and moral is as moral does.

Let me give you just a few of the reasons why I
take issue with those in power who claim moral values
are on their side:

1. When you start a war on false pretenses, and
then act as if your deceptions are justified because
you are doing God's will, and that your critics are
either unpatriotic or lacking in faith, there are some
of us who have given our lives to teaching and
preaching the faith who believe that this is not only
not moral, but immoral.

2. When you live in a country that has
established international rules for waging a just war,
build the United Nations on your own soil to enforce
them, and then arrogantly break the very rules you set
down for the rest of the world, you are doing
something immoral.

3. When you claim that Jesus is the Lord of your
life, and yet fail to acknowledge that your policies
ignore his essential teaching, or turn them on their
head (you know, Sermon on the Mount stuff like that we
must never return violence for violence and that those
who live by the sword will die by the sword), you are
doing something immoral.

4. When you act as if the lives of Iraqi
civilians are not as important as the lives of
American soldiers, and refuse to even count them, you
are doing something immoral.

5. When you find a way to avoid combat in
Vietnam, and then question the patriotism of someone
who volunteered to fight, and came home a hero, you
are doing something immoral.

6. When you ignore the fundamental teachings of
the gospel, which says that the way the strong treat
the weak is the ultimate ethical test, by giving tax
breaks to the wealthiest among us so the strong will
get stronger and the weak will get weaker, you are
doing something immoral.

7. When you wink at the torture of prisoners,
and deprive so-called "enemy combatants" of the rules
of the Geneva convention, which your own country
helped to establish and insists that other countries
follow, you are doing something immoral.

8. When you claim that the world can be divided
up into the good guys and the evil doers, slice up
your own nation into those who are with you, or with
the terrorists -- and then launch a war which enriches
your own friends and seizes control of the oil to
which we are addicted, instead of helping us to
kick the habit, you are doing something immoral.

9. When you fail to veto a single spending bill,
but ask us to pay for a war with no exit strategy and
no end in sight, creating an enormous deficit that
hangs like a great millstone around the necks of our
children, you are doing something immoral.

10. When you cause most of the rest of the world
to hate a country that was once the most loved country
in the world, and act like it doesn't matter what
others think of us, only what God thinks of you, you
have done something immoral.

11. When you use hatred of homosexuals as a wedge
issue to turn out record numbers of evangelical
voters, and use the Constitution as a tool of
discrimination, you are doing something immoral.

12. When you favor the death penalty, and yet
claim to be a follower of Jesus, who said an eye for
an eye was the old way, not the way of the kingdom,
you are doing something immoral.

13. When you dismantle countless environmental
laws designed to protect the earth which is God's gift
to us all, so that the corporations that bought you
and paid for your favors will make higher profits
while our children breathe dirty air and live in a
toxic world, you have done something immoral. The
earth belongs to the Lord, not Halliburton.

14. When you claim that our God is bigger than
their God, and that our killing is righteous, while
theirs is evil, we have begun to resemble the enemy we
claim to be fighting, and that is immoral. We have met
the enemy, and the enemy is us.

15. When you tell people that you intend to run
and govern as a "compassionate conservative," using
the word which is the essence of all religious
faith-compassion, and then show no compassion for
anyone who disagrees with you, and no patience with
those who cry to you for help, you are doing something
immoral.

16. When you talk about Jesus constantly, who
was a healer of the sick, but do nothing to make sure
that anyone who is sick can go to see a doctor, even
if she doesn't have a penny in her pocket, you are
doing something immoral.

17. When you put judges on the bench who are
racist, and will set women back a hundred years, and
when you surround yourself with preachers who say gays
ought to be killed, you are doing something immoral.

I'm tired of people thinking that because I'm a
Christian, I must be a supporter of President Bush, or
that because I favor civil rights and gay rights I
must not be a person of faith. I'm tired of people
saying that I can't support the troops but oppose the
war.

I heard that when I was your age--when the Vietnam
war was raging. We knew that war was wrong, and you
know that this war is wrong--the only question is how
many people are going to die before these make-believe
Christians are removed from power?

This country is bankrupt. The war is morally
bankrupt. The claim of this administration to be
Christian is bankrupt. And the only people who can
turn things around are people like you--young people
who are just beginning to wake up to what is happening
to them. It's your country to take back. It's your
faith to take back.

It's your future to take back.

Don't be afraid to speak out. Don't back down when
your friends begin to tell you that the cause is
righteous and that the flag should be wrapped around
the cross, while the rest of us keep our mouths shut.\

Real Christians take chances for peace. So do real
Jews, and real Muslims, and real Hindus, and real
Buddhists--so do all the faith traditions of the
world at their heart believe one thing: life is
precious.

Every human being is precious. Arrogance is the
opposite of faith. Greed is the opposite of charity.
And believing that one has never made a mistake is the
mark of a deluded man, not a man of faith.

And war -- war is the greatest failure of the
human race -- and thus the greatest failure of faith.
There's an old rock and roll song, whose lyrics say it
all: War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing.

And what is the dream of the prophets? That we
should study war no more, that we should beat our
swords into plowshares and our spears into pruning
hooks. Who would Jesus bomb, indeed? How many wars
does it take to know that too many people have died?

What if they gave a war and nobody came? Maybe one
day we will find out.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. amen and hallalujah
ok not too far from me. good to see this coming from this area. tells me they have some with reasonable minds. want to send this to the preachers in this area
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. oooh! pass it to the preachers...
....great idea. Show them how to do their jobs.
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. I wanna join this church!
Is Robin a male or female do you know? (not that it matters)

We need more preachers and people of faith like this!
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I think Rev Meyers
...is a dude. But I could be wrong!
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. He is
I found the church's website on Google - he is also a professor in rhetoric at OKU
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ghostsofgiants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. He says that in the original article actually
I assumed it was a woman though, haha, since every Robin I know is a female. I forgot the name Robin swung both ways.
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proudbluestater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
6. Yup, that about sums it up. This seems to have been written
immediately after the election and BEFORE the man decided to steal away Social Security, too.

This is really a fantastic sermon. I'm printing and sharing!
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I was hoping you would...
...print and share, that is. Here is a rev that knows what it really means to be "Christian" or "moral". He actually seems to understand the definition of morality.

Hallalujah! :)
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Theres-a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. Beautiful
Thanks for posting.
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. Great post!
Edited on Wed Jan-12-05 08:10 AM by itzamirakul
It must be passed on as much as possible.

Edit for spelling. Why don't I proofread more carefully???
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
10. Very nice.
I do wish the good doctor had left out the reference to the Edwin Starr song though. I can't read those words without picturing Elaine on Seinfeld telling the Russian author that the working title for "War and Peace" was "War - What Is It Good For?" :)
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
11. WOW! Thanks. :) n/t
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. Right on the money Triana
That covers the things that I have been thinking very well. Thanks for sharing it.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. Amen


PBWY
DYEW
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MARALE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
14. Bookmarked!
For my fundie friend and cousin that think Bush is the most moral man. This may give them something to think about. thanks!
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. your fundie cousin..
...I'd like to be a fly on the wall when (s)he reads it!

:think:
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
15. Wonderful!
Nominated for home page.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
17. Do you have a link for this?
I want to post this on the net but would like a link for reference.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Here you go...
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. here's another
http://www.progressivechristiansuniting.org/cgi-bin/datacgi/database.cgi?file=News&report=SingleArticle&ArticleID=0018


btw, there was one more line at the end:

"Time to march again my friends. Time to commit acts of civil disobedience. Time to sing, and to pray, and refuse
to participate in the madness. My generation finally stopped a tragic war. You can too!"



peace,
dp
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
18. Printing it now! Thank you for sharing
Amen! Amen!

:)
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MsAnthropy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
21. This is fabulous--thanks so much for posting
It should be sent to every religious rightwinger in the country.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
22. A-MEN!!!!!
Brilliant!
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greyfox Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
23. Wonderful.. and I....
did some re-write (not much) and sent it to my local paper as a letter to the editor (with thanks to the good minister of course)... this is a FREEP area so it may not get run, but someone will have to read it hahahaha
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. they may not run it 'cause...
...it makes too much sense!

FREEPs don't like anything that makes too much sense.
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greyfox Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. 
Yes, how well I know. It is infuriating....
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greyfox Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Indeed
and it is soooooooooooooooooooo infuriating!!!
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Justpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
24. I just sent it to everyone I know eom
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Qanisqineq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
27. I think my "born again" sister should read this
She preached about how "immoral" Kerry was and how Bush is such a great man. She needs to think again.

Excellent.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I won't even ask...
...wtf about Kerry is immoral.

I can't fathom how lying the US into a war which thus far has killed thousands of Americans and wounded thousands more and God knows how may Iraqis, torturing them in the same prisons their former dictator did, stripping the earth of its natural resources, stripping American workers, the elderly, and the children of their rights, money, health benefits, and education, and now, Social Security is MORAL. BU$H (not Kerry - BUSH) did or is in the process of doing all of these and pages and pages more that I won't even get into here.

Go figure. ¿
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
29. Way to slap the Chimp around!
:evilgrin: :bounce: Take that! You "Values Voters"
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
31. Excellent!
Edited on Wed Jan-12-05 11:43 AM by Kazak
I'm a lifelong UU living in Norman, I regularly read Rev. Meyers column in the Gazette. Always worth the read.

On edit: He's a real breath of fresh air for Oklahoma, I'll tell ya.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
32. Brilliant..absolutely brilliant!!!
.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
34. Please send that to Joe Scarborough
who did a show last night on Chimpy's devout "faith." (It was infuriating!! Made it sound like only Chimp was not a "scoffer at religion," using Lincoln's words.)

I already wrote him but I'll follow up with this if you have a link?

His email: joe@msnbc.com
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
35. My wife LOVED this
as someone who went to church her whole life this what she has been saying for the last few years.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
36. That pretty much says it all
:-)
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LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
37. Amen
That was wonderful. Thank you for posting it.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
38. wonderful speech
bet the conservatives in the audience sat there seething.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
39. How did this "play" at OKU?
Not exactly a hotbed of liberalism.
How did the students and local fundies react?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
40. My Plans (and suggestions for ALL)
I'm going to print out 1000 copies at Kinkos.
On Jan 20th, I will:

pass them out at the Coronation Protest,

handout them out on strteet corners,

staple to telephone poles,

leaflet car windshields,

leave in public bathrooms,

put in bus stops,

post on bbs in grocery stores, coffee shops, laundromats...

anyplace that I can put one.


This could become the spiritual Credo for the anti-republican movement!

I'm going to post this in Activism/Events Forum.

Please help me spread the word.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Hey, I like this! (n/t)
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
41. Amen and Amen!
I'm e-mailing that one out! Thanks!
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idiosyncratic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
42. Thank you for posting this!
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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
44. Beautiful. Already emailed it out. n/t
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
45. Thanks for posting, kicked, bookmarked and nominated! n/t
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feminazi Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
46. this is excellent
i'm emailing it to my born-again mom (who voted for shrub) and my brother and sister-in-law. my SIL thought the passion of the christ was a GREAT movie and they're shrub voters, as well.

i also like the idea of printing copies and handing them out.
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
47. It is so rare to hear a Christian oppose the Bushtapo
and the Iraq war these days that this editorial is truly shocking.

I feel the key to taking back our country lies with the Christians who are willing to question this administration on moral grounds. After all, bushwad has filed a quick claim deed to the title of "born again Christian" It is up to those folks to clarify what the appropriate behavior for someone like that is.

It is too easy for the fundamentalists to discount those of us who have become sickened, tired, and have ultimately abandoned the American Christian community due to the influence of conservative fundamentalism. Jimmy Carter ditched the Southern Baptist Church about a decade ago, and I assume it was likely for similar reasons.

At any rate, it is wonderful to finally hear a Christian stand up to the criminal acts that are being done in the name of their religion. I would love to see more of it in the future.

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greyfox Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Dunno why ya think that....
there are plenty of we Christians who detest the sorry lying hyprocritical drunk!
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. I should have said Christian "Leader"
That is what I was thinking. Moreover, leaders at the level of Buchanan, Fartwell, or Robertson. There are none that I can think of.

I expect there are plenty of Christian individuals nationwide who detest the rodent. However, they have no voice.

There simply appears to be no Christian opposition at that much of a public level.
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VioletLake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
49. Thanks for posting this.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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lakelly Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
50. Thank you
Thank you Trinia for posting Dr Meyers rousing speech. I really needed that today. Sometimes I feel as if I have abandoned my faith (I don't believe it has abandoned me) To read the words of Dr Meyers, so stirring and so true may move me one step closer to claiming and proclaiming my faith once again. How odd that one mans words will reach so many who hunger to hear other "believers" truly speaking with moral clarity. Again thank you Trinia for sharing Dr Meyers healing speech.
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Tony_Illinois Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
52. Very powerful--thank you
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coolhandlulu Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
53. We need more of our Christian Left to step up and preach like this!
eom
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shayes51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
54. "Real Christians take chances for peace."
What a great bumpersticker that would be!
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sffreeways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
55. This sounds like
it was written by a follower of Jesus. Huh, Evangelicals will hate it.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
56. Thank you for this.
I am emailing this out! :hi:
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
57. This is a wonderful speech. Please share it with your Fundie friends.
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