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Jon8503 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 07:54 PM
Original message
Thinking Seriously About Moving & Working With The Green Party
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 07:56 PM by Jon8503
I have considered my time here at DU some of my better and worthwhile times and enjoyable times. I love this crowd. Also, at this moment drinking a little wine.

After a lot of thinking and considerations believe the Green Party may be the place for me. I am extremely disappointed with what I feel are gutless democrats and have always had my own suspicions of the last election.

I am not really sure where the Democratic party stands but I do know where the Greens stand. I too as many felt you could not support them as you were only throwing your vote away. But you have to stand for something and the Dem's are not doing that.

Anyway had to say that.

Plus the dam fact that Kansas won today. Nothing is going right.
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Despite what some people will tell you
It would be a very valuable use of your time.

The Greens are good people working very hard.
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. .... to split the liberal votes.
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #39
50. Love ya arwalden...always on the team.
I'm with you.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. Stay or do both....
I think the so-called Dem Party is going to morph from professional politicians running things to more earnest-common-concerned voters. Why imply that the professional politicians are not earnest? I don't want to, but the morphing means new leaders. It has to happen. Going right is not an option.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The Greens are open to dual party affiliation. If the Dems would consider
it, they might get some Green-Dems or Dem-Greens.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Come to Maine. We have voluntary clean elections here, and IRV
may be in the cards _if_ the report on the costs of implementing it isn't too scary.
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FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Karl Rove says thanks, divide and conquer forever!
Democratic unity will eventually win it with the right candidates and presentation of message. A split opposition party will never defeat the neo-cons.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. 'Right candidate' for me means no Congress person or civilian
who voted for and supported:

.Giving Bush the mad-date to kill Iraqis and our own (people figured out that the dozens of official premises for the war were hogwash, but they couldn't?).

.Approved John Ashcroft as AG.

.Voted for or supported the Patriot Act.

They should recognize their vote and motive and not even try to run - FOR THE UNITY OF THE PARTY.

It's simple and it is not Monday-morning quarterbacking. It is plain old and good American ethics and support of the Constitution and Bill of RIghts.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
33. Not even Russ Feingold or Paul Wellstone would be pure enough for you.
Feingold's vote let Ashcroft's AG nomination out of committee and Wellstone voted for Patriot.

I agree with you on that list of issues, but I think that this impossible degree of purism does nothing but strengthen the hand of the Republicans.
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #33
52. Thanks, QC!
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
51. Thanks Free State Dem!
You said it!
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
55. Tell you what then friend
Why doesn't the Democratic party finish it's dance with the 'Pugs, and simply merge with them. This whole business of moving ever rightwards while still claiming to be liberal is fooling fewer people all the time. More and more people are waking up to the reality of the two party/same corporate master system of government. Merge the Dems with the 'Pugs already and be done with it, that way the field is wide open for a genuine liberal party to mount real opposition to the right wing, not the faux opposition that the Dems have been putting up the past twelve years.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Join a faction WITHIN the Democratic Party instead of promoting division.
Or work on a media project somewhere.
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
53. Thanks W4rma! Keep the party strong!
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. Check out the Progressives.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. well, Nader has essentially been proven right over time.
at least with regards to rich white men, there is little difference between the parties.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Actually Nader has been an enabler of this bullcrap. This is his goal.
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 09:20 PM by w4rma
For some time now, Nader has made it perfectly clear that his campaign isn't about trying to pull the Democrats back to the left. Rather, his strategy is the Leninist one of “heightening the contradictions”. It's not just that Nader is willing to take a chance of being personally responsible for electing Bush. It's that he's actively trying to elect Bush because he thinks that social conditions in American need to get worse before they can better.

Nader often makes this “the worse, the better” point on the stump in relation to Republicans and the environment. He says that the Reagan-era interior secretary James Watt was useful because he was a “provocateur” for change, noting that Watt spurred a massive boost in the Sierra Club's membership. More recently, Nader applied the same logic to Bush himself. Here's the Los Angeles Times' account of a speech Nader gave at Chapman University in Orange, California, last week: “After lambasting Gore as part of a do-nothing Clinton administration, Nader said, 'If it were a choice between a provocateur and an anaesthetiser, I'd rather have a provocateur. It would mobilise us.'

Lest this remark be considered an aberration, Nader has said similar things before. “When {the Democrats} lose, they say it's because they are not appealing to the Republican voters,” Nader told an audience in Madison, Wisconsin, a few months ago, according to a story in the Nation. “We want them to say they lost because a progressive movement took away votes.”

That might make it sound like Nader's goal is to defeat Gore in order to shift the Democratic party to the left. But in a more recent interview with David Moberg in the socialist paper In These Times, Nader made it clear that his real mission is to destroy and then replace the Democratic party altogether. According to Moberg, Nader talked “about leading the Greens into a 'death struggle' with the Democratic party to determine which will be the majority party”. Nader further and shockingly explained that he hopes in the future to run Green party candidates around the country, including against such progressive Democrats as Senator Paul Wellstone of Minnesota, Senator Russell Feingold of Wisconsin, and Representative Henry Waxman of California. “I hate to use military analogies,” Nader said, “but this is war on the two parties.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,393674,00.html

Last Thursday morning CNN showed Nader voters ecstatic and unapologetic about their part in the election mess. “I'm a part of history,” burbled one woman.

Along with that woman CNN showed another Naderite who shrugged off the prospect of a Bush presidency with the following: “I believe things have to get worse before they get better.”

That seems to me to adequately sum up the belief of Ellen Willis who, in a Salon piece supporting Nader last week, wrote: “More and more I am coming to the conviction that Roe vs. Wade, in the guise of a great victory, has been in some respects a disaster for feminism. We might be better off today if it had never happened, and we had had to continue a state-by-state political fight. Roe vs. Wade resulted in a lot of women declaring victory and going home.”
http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/15/nader/

When asked if someone put a gun to his head and told him to vote for either Gore or Bush, which he would choose, Nader answered without hesitation: “Bush.”
“If you want the parties to diverge from one another, have Bush win.” - Nader
http://www.outsidemag.com/magazine/200008/200008camp_nader1.html

The only prominent Democrat who Nader seems to believe offers the party any chance for redemption is Russ Feingold, the maverick senator from Wisconsin who cast a lonely vote against the Bush Administration's antiterrorism legislation. Feingold is a rare Democrat who consistently says things like, “Ralph Nader is talking about issues Democrats should be talking about.” But the mutual admiration goes only so far. Nader rejects the idea of backing a Feingold run for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination. “I'll say a lot of good things about him, but we're not trying to build the same party,” he says.

Nader admits he experiences “lots” of frustration with the Greens. He warns that the party is not running enough candidates to achieve critical mass at election time, and he says it must do so--even where that means challenging relatively liberal Democrats.

Does Nader worry, even just a little bit, that another candidacy might divide progressives and produce another Bush presidency? “Look, I'd rather be engaged in the nonpartisan work of building a civil society. For me, there has been a gradual commitment to getting involved in the electoral process, and I still cling to this civic, nonpartisan vision of how to do things,” Nader says. “But if you do an acute analysis of why things don't change in this country, you come back to what has happened to the Democratic Party. When I look at how the Democrats have responded to Enron so far, it seems to me that we all have a responsibility to try to jolt them into an understanding of what is at stake. If Democrats respond effectively, there will not be much point to me or anyone else challenging them. But if they do not, something has to give. People realize that. People know what the Enron scandal means. This is a test. Are Democrats capable of addressing massive corporate crimes effectively? If Democrats cannot, if they are in such a routinized rut that they are incapable of responding, then how could anyone make a case that they should be given deference at the ballot box?”
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020225&s=nichols

Regarding Senators Russ Feingold (D-WI) and Paul Wellstone (D-MN), Nader said that he is willing to sacrifice them because “that's the price they're going to have to bear for letting their party go astray.”
In an interview with In the Times, 10-30-2000

In a recent Time magazine interview, when asked if he felt any regret about the 2000 election, Nader responded, “No, because it could have been worse. You could have had a Republican Congress with Gore and Lieberman.” -- Time magazine, 8-05-02

“Let's see what really happens. Ashcroft is going to be a prisoner of bureaucracy.” -- Common Dreams 4-03-2001

“I'm just amazed that people think I should be concerned about this stuff. It's absolutely amazing. Not a minute's sleep do I lose, about something like this - because I feel sorry for them. It's just so foolish, the way they have been behaving. Why should I worry?” -- Common Dreams 4-03-2001
http://www.damnedbigdifference.org/quotes

How the Great Crusader used the Green Party to get his revenge
Ralph Nader, Suicide Bomber

Later I was introduced to Nader's closest adviser, his handsome, piercingly intelligent 30-year-old nephew, Tarek Milleron. Although Milleron argued that environmentalists and other activists would find fundraising easier under Bush, he acknowledged that a Bush presidency would be worse for poor and working-class people, for blacks, for most Americans. As Moore had, he claimed that Nader's campaign would encourage Web-based vote-swapping between progressives in safe and contested states. But when I suggested that Nader could gain substantial influence in a Democratic administration by focusing his campaign on the 40 safe states and encouraging his supporters elsewhere to vote Gore, Milleron leaned coolly toward me with extra steel in his voice and body. He did not disagree. He simply said, "We're not going to do that."

"Why not?" I said.

With just a flicker of smile, he answered, "Because we want to punish the Democrats, we want to hurt them, wound them."

There was a long silence and the conversation was over.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0418/levine.php

Contrast his statements above with some information on the two pre-Nazi Germany liberal parties:
In 1930 the parliamentary coalition that governed Germany fell apart, and new elections were held. The biggest winner in these elections was Adolf Hitler's National Socialist Party. From twelve seats in parliament they increased their seats to 107, becoming Germany's second largest political party. The largest party was still the Social Democrats, and this party won 143 seats and 24.5 percent of the vote. Communist Party candidates won 13.1 percent of the vote (roughly 50 times better than the U.S. Communist Party did in the 1932 elections), and together the Social Democrats and the Communists were large enough to claim the right to make a government. But Communists and the Social Democrats remained hostile toward one another. The Comintern at this time was opposed to Communists working with reformers, and the Communists believed that a collapse of parliamentary government would hasten the revolutionary crisis that would propel them to power.
http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch16.htm
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ZombieNixon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. I see no one has any juvenile insults to hurl at you.
It's a wonder what links and quotes will do for doubting Thomases. :thumbsup:
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
54. Great Post - Deserves its own thread!
Always thought Nader was excess baggage, but harmless. Now I see he's deliberately trying to wreck my future so he can bring about his extremist agenda.

Glad he's taking the long view -ugh! Me, I've got young kids and can't afford to wait for the revolution or WW3 to reform things. I want to turn them around NOW.

thanks again, W4rma!
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GreenInNC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. check us out
www.gp.org
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. thanks for the link, very interesting.
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 10:40 PM by Lerkfish
I have never read the green party platform before....I was very surprised. Especially in light of recent attempts here to suggest that the democratic party should abandon gay rights.....IMHO the ten key values on the green party website are very much what the democratic party SHOULD be promoting:

---------
1. GRASSROOTS DEMOCRACY
2. SOCIAL JUSTICE AND EQUAL OPPORTUNITY
3. ECOLOGICAL WISDOM
4. NON-VIOLENCE
5. DECENTRALIZATION
6. COMMUNITY BASED ECONOMICS
7. FEMINISM AND GENDER EQUITY
8. RESPECT FOR DIVERSITY
9. PERSONAL AND GLOBAL RESPONSIBILITY
10. FUTURE FOCUS AND SUSTAINABILITY
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. Your place is with crackpots?
that's pretty much what they are. Did you see there convention on C-SPAN? You have to search through the depths of reality tv to find that much mental illness concentrated in one place at one time.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Thanks for the stereotype. Much appreciated.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. sorry for judging a party by the best face they can put on at their
convention. Which was in every sense of the word, bizarre.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I can think of nothing more "crackpot" thank taking the dem party
more to the right to win elections.

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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. And how does a migration of the most left-wing members of it to another
party NOT make the democratic more right-wing? It would seem to do just that.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Usually, to get people to stick around anywhere for anything, you have to
actually offer them something.

Just a basic psychological fact.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. The party is made up of individual PEOPLE. It is not a sentient, thinking
being that can offer you something.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Seems to me platforms exist for some reason
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. platforms - serious realworld platforms
exist as general guideposts to help get candidates elected.

The Green party can promise the moon in their platform - because they're not serious in getting people in office. If they were serious, they would focus completely on the local level.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Not our fault the U.S. guidelines for maintaining party status requires
us to run at higher levels. Talk to your Dem reps about getting that changed. And about voting reforms like ranked ballots.

----------------------------------------------------------
Save this nation one town, county, and state at a time!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#why
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. there's running at higher levels then there's running
in races that help elect Republicans. It happened in the 2002 Colorado 7th district House race. Now we've got Bob Beauprez. It almost happened again in 2004 against Marylin Musgrave -

the Greens are an opposition party -

anyone who seriously wants to fight the Republicans is a fool to support them.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Would you feel the same way if ranked voting was in place?
And if you had a race with only a Green and Repub running, would you vote Green or abstain?

I am just curious here. I understand that as a Dem you want to see your own party grow, so if you say no to the above questions, I'll undrestand. :)

----------------------------------------------------------
Save this nation one town, county, and state at a time!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#why
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Do you mean instant runoff?
I would be in favor of that.

Between a Green and a Republican - of course I would vote Green.

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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Instant runoff, or any of the other variations on ranked voting. :^)
This is why election reform is my baby. I know that a lot of Dems won't support it for fear that it will cut into their ability to garner votes in elections, but I do hope those who vote for progressives of any political stripe will back it. :)

----------------------------------------------------------
Save this nation one town, county, and state at a time!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#why
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Nicely said.
I agree.

It's the people I support, and I find it works much better if you don't label them, or let yourself be labeled.

To the OP: If you're tired of partisan politics, try non-partisan. I didn't get to meet John Kerry, but I know everyone on my City Council. I found it much more satisfying.

If you want to be Green, fine. If you want to stay Dem, fine. But don't quit.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. Not sure I understand your logic, here.
If the party shifts right, its not the fault of the left members, whether they stay or leave.

If over half the dem party shifts right, but left dems stay, then the party is still predominantly right, and the staying left dems become powerless, right?

What you seem to be suggesting is that left dems should tolerate a shift to the right, against their own principles, in the hope that their presence will ameliorate that. But the fallacy there is that once the left dems sacrifice or compromise their principles, they no longer have any point of integrity in order to influence the party.

As an example: if the DLC convinces left dems to stay, even though the dems take an anti-gay stand, what has the left dem gained for staying? A complete loss of their moral values in return for continuing to call themselves dem? What would be the point, then?
Being a dem at that point would mean republican lite, so the advantage is moot for the left dem, and the advantage is completely for the right dem, who gets to not only get their right leaning platform in, but also gets support of the left dems, as tacit condoning of the right platform.

For the DLCers or the nonDLC right leaning dems, its a win/win. They don't have to sacrifice their principles, and they get a voting block, relunctant or not, to support their values.

The left dem loses everything and gains nothing.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
56. And tell me why those left wing members of the Dem party are leaving?
Because they can't take it anymore. From the debacle of Clinton, that Republican who passed as a Dem, to the absolute yes man spinelessness of the Congressional Dems since Bush came to power, to the ongoing rightward push by From, McAulife and others, the Democratic party has lurched hard to the right over the past two decades. At first, many of us thought it was an abberation, then we thought maybe it was a reversible tactic, then we were ABB, you know, the lesser of two evils route. Now it has become clear to many people that those of us on the left are simply no wanted in the Democratic Party anymore. So fine, we'll leave.

Why should a person stick around in a party that no longer represents them? Why should a person stick with a party that is actively trying to drive them away? Why should a person toil for a party that will not repay their loyalty? It has become apparent that the Democratic party is repudiating it's leftist base. The leadership is denouncing our most effective members on the left, Moore, MoveOn etc, it is moving ever rightwards, and now there is discussions amongst the leadership and moderate members of the party of doing away with the sacred cows, abortion and affirmative action among others. Combine this with the rush to support the Bush administration on such travesties such as the Patriot Act, NCLB, and the Iraq war, and what is a good leftist, hell even a moderate, supposed to do? Bend over and say "Thank you sir, may I have another?" Fuck that, if the Democratic party isn't going to represent even a modicum of my positions, then I'm gone. And if that leads to the downfall of the party, oh well, it is better off dead anyway.

Expecting unwavering loyalty, yet doing nothing to deserve that loyalty is ludicrous and a set up for failure. Hell, at least in the past a bone was tossed our way once in a while. Now the Democratic leadership isn't even paying the left lip service anymore. They're too damn busy kissing their corporate masters' ass to come up for air, much less speak out. Fuck 'em then, I will go where my views and efforts are appreciated, and to a party that still knows how to stand up and fight.
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jahyarain Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. I just have to say
That is the best post i've ever read anywhere on those internets
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. Well said, MadHound!
The Democratic Party took the anti-war folks for granted this election - the Party has changed, not the base. If we continue to vote for candidates who don't represent our core beliefs, the system will never change.

WE NEED A CHANGE

How many Dems are opposing Gonzales for AG?

How many Dems are speaking out against this illegal war?

How many Dems are addressing the poor and disabled?

How many Dems are opposing the neocon agenda of Sharon re: the I/P conflict?


I'm a lifelong Dem but will not endorse another pro-war, corporate owned candidate. If all the people protested and refused to allow those Dems to destroy what is left of the party, change would happen.

We still have several great Dems that represent us, I hope we can support those and not the corporate hawks.

I do not want to become the very thing I dislike in Republicans. They will blindly vote for any candidate even though it is against their best interest.







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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. Very well said!
I agree completely. The party left me long before I left it.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. *grin*
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NightTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. I have friends who belong to the Connecticut Green Party.
A few of them are out there when it comes to their political views, but by and large the Greens I know are thinking, reasonable people who feel that neither of the major political parties represents their needs. As such, I would encourage you to check the Greens out!
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InvisibleBallots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. I like the Greens
I have many issues with them, but I like what they are doing and I think they are on our side. I'm lucky as hell to live in New York, so I can always vote on the Working Families Party line, and still support Democrats, or the occasional Green if the WFP endorses them.
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raggedcompany Donating Member (399 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. Sounds good to me.
Good luck!

One nice thing about a civilized club is that you don't get hell for leaving, and you're always welcome back. Beware the "loyalty" argument, it's ultimate conclusion is worthless.
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InvisibleBallots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. good points, raggedcompany
I've never thought about it this way, but I think you are right.

"One nice thing about a civilized club is that you don't get hell for leaving, and you're always welcome back. Beware the "loyalty" argument, it's ultimate conclusion is worthless."

Good point.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
24. Best of luck to you. I look forward to the day when the Greens
won't need to be a separate party.

It will take external pressure from the Greens & Independent Progressives and internal pressure from the Progressives staying in the party to get us back on track.

Best of luck to all the progressive factions.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
27. Everyone should claim their political identity
If it's Green, then it's Green. All I ask of anybody is to not pretend they're a Democrat if their political philosophy fits somewhere else better. Green, Socialist, whatever. That way each group has a loud and clear voice, including the Democrats.

But as long as our elections are the way they are, remember that there are consequences to your actual vote, along with the right to vote your conscience.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Greens are welcome on this Board.
I believe that this Board represents expression of Democratic ideals. I don't believe there is any requirement that a poster be registered with the Democratic party.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. S'true
Plenty of times the call for a Green purge boiled over here, but Skinner put a stop to it. Greens are A-OK at DU, as long as they don't use this place to organize against Dems.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Don't organize against Dems?
That's too funny. I wish Greens would organize so they could start promoting themselves instead of constantly bashing Dems.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Thanks for verifying that.
I personally like Greens and Independents being here, right alongside Democrats. I'm lukewarm about discussions with moderate Republicans, though. I have to work on my own viewpoint there. I'm maybe not as inclusive as I'd like to think that I am. I tend to enjoy the discussions here because everyone here, for the most part, is a progressive, regardless of party affiliation.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. Where'd I say that?
I just said people should identify with whatever political party best represents their views. That way each group becomes stronger which is good for everybody. I never said a word about this board.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Sorry, I didn't mean to offend.
I was just kind of reviewing in my head (and I posted it) re what I knew about the DU Board. So, from what you are saying, it is correct that a particular party affiliation is not required. That's a good thing.
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txaslftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
38. You know what I'm gonna say.
This is Txaslftist, and I'm not going to blast you like I usually do people who talk about leaving the party.

By now you've probably heard it already.

Just please stay.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
40. No need to blast, to deride, to beg or to cry
Politics is a personal decision. You should do what fits you, after careful thought and reflection. Not 'cause yer daddy did it, 'cause you like the swagger of a candidate, or because you buy media bullshit. And certainly not out of anger or desire for revenge.

I'm a Democrat, I have always been a Democrat, and I probably will stick with the party unless and until they give me reason not to. I like their trajectory, even if they occasionally wobble on the track to the target.

So do what you feel, and best of luck to you.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
45. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
47. It's east to defend one's record when one has no record
That's all I will say about the Green party as a party
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-11-05 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. David Cobb has a damn good record vs election fraud.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #49
58. "The Green Party never wins anything."
Green Party members holding elected office in the United States:

At least 221 Greens in 27 states
and the District of Columbia

hold elected office as of the November 2004 elections


U.S. Green electoral history, 1985-present



California (67)

Ross Mirkarimi, Board of Supervisors, District 5, City/County of San Francisco
Larry Barnett, City Council, Sonoma (Sonoma County)
Larry Bragman, City Council, Fairfax (Marin County)
Melody Demeritt, City Council, Morro Bay (San Luis Obispo)
Lynda Deschambault, Town Council, Moraga (Contra Costa)
Alan Drusys, Mayor Pro-Tempore, Yucaipa (San Bernadino County)
Tim Fitzmaurice, City Council, Santa Cruz, (Santa Cruz County)
Harmony Groves, City Council, Arcata (Humboldt)
Doug Hammerstrom, Ft. Bragg, City Council (Mendocino)
Beth Ingalls, City Council, Truckee (Nevada County)
Craig Litwin, Mayor, Sebastopol (Sonoma County)
Kevin McKeown, Mayor Pro-Tempore, Santa Monica (Los Angeles County)
Holly Madrigal, City Council, Willits (Mendocino)
Dave Meserve, City Council, Arcata (Humboldt)
Gayle McLaughlin, Richmond, City Council (Contra Costa)
Christine Mulholland, Vice-Mayor, San Luis Obispo (San Luis Obispo County)
Landon Neustadt, City Council, Buelton (Santa Barbara)
Sam Pierce, City Council , Sebastopol (Sonoma County)
Paul Pitino, City Council, Arcata (Humboldt)
Larry Robinson, City Council, Sebastopol (Sonoma County)
Mark Shoup, City Council, Apple Valley (San Bernadino County)
Lauren Sinott, City Council, Point Arena, (Mendocino County)
Dona Spring, City Council, Berkeley (Alameda County)
Lew Tremaine, Vice-Mayor, Fairfax (Marin County)
Karl Warkomski, City Council, Aliso Viejo (Orange County)
Sarah Lipson, Board of Education, City/County of San Francisco
Marc Sanchez, Board of Education,City/County of San Francisco
John Selawsky, School Board, Berkeley (Alameda County)
Tim Willis, School Board, Santa Cruz (Santa Cruz)
Jim Smith, President, Canyon School Board, Canyon Township (Contra Costa County)
Bill (William) Meyers, President, School Board, Point Arena (Mendocino County)
Jose Octavio Rivas, School Board, Lennox (Los Angeles County)
Gene Meyers, School Board, Chicago Park (Nevada County)
Cindy Foxfoot, School Board, Twin Ridges Elementary (Nevada County)
DeOnne Noel, School Board, Twin Ridges Elementary (Nevada County)
Sandra Ventura Scott, School Board, Twin Ridges Elementary (Nevada)
Paul Franklin, School Board, Live Oak School District (Santa Cruz)
Rod Jones, School Board, Mendocino Unified School District (Mendocino County)
Heidi Silva, School Board, Whitmore Union School District (Shasta County)
Jeff Sklar, Rent Control Board, Santa Monica (Los Angeles County)
Selma Spector, Rent Stabilization Board, Berkeley (Alameda County)
Chris Kavanagh, Rent Stabilization Board, Berkeley (Alameda County)
Howard Chong, Rent Stabilization Board, Berkeley (Alameda County)
Rebecca Kaplan, Transit Board (Alameda County)
Cameron Miller, Water Conservation District Board, Santa Maria Valley (Santa Barbara)
Kaitlin Sopoci-Belknap, Eureka Water Board, District 1 (Humboldt)
Matthew Clark, Granada Sanitary District (San Mateo County)
Paul Perkovic, Montara Water & Sanitary District (San Mateo County)
Jim Harvey, Montara Water & Sanitary District (San Mateo County)
Roberto G. Garcia, Fire District, Penn Valley (Nevada County)
William Bretz, Crest/Dehesa/Harrison Canyon/Granite Hill Planning Group (San Diego County)
Kathy Wronski, Park & Recreation District, Bear River (Nevada County)
Sharon L. (Wert) Barbour, Park & Recreation Districtt, Boulder Creek (Santa Cruz County)
Robert Kerekes, Town Council, Antelope Acres (Los Angeles County)
Rocky Neptun, City Heights Planning Group (San Diego County)
Jay Evarts, Julian Planning Group (San Diego County)
Mark Snelling, Ocean Beach Planning Group (San Diego County)
Doug Zilm, Ocean Beach Planning Group (San Diego County)
Sara Bassler, Midcoast Community Council (San Mateo County)
Paul Perkovic, Midcoast Community Council (San Mateo County)
Sheila Bernard, Governmental Relations Officer, Grassroots Venice Neighborhood Council, Venice (Los Angeles County)
Sabrina Venskus, Grassroots Venice Neighborhood Council, Venice (Los Angeles County)
Emily Winters, Grassroots Venice Neighborhood Council, Venice (Los Angeles County)
George C. Nelson, Director, Community Service Area, Edgemont (Riverside County)
Nicole Vigeant, Community Services District, Tomales Village (Marin County)
James Lamport, Southern Humboldt Hospital District Board (Humboldt County)



Colorado (9)

Art Goodtimes, Board of Commissioners (San Miguel County)
Scott Chaplin, Board of Trustees, Carbondale
Jeffery Bergeron, Town Council, Breckenridge (Summit County)
John Fox-Rubin, Town Council, Basalt
David Grant Long, Town Council, Cortez
Robert Kelly-Goss, Town Council, Minturn (Eagle County)
Wendy Mimiaga, Town Board, Dolores (Cortez County)
Hillary White, Town Council, Telluride (San Miguel County)
Richard Hamilton, Park and Recreation District, Title 32 - Special District, South Park


Connecticut (4)

Elizabeth Horton-Sheff, City Council, Hartford
Joyce Chen, Alder, Ward 2, New Haven
Ken Keskinen, Selectman, Cornwall
Juan Perez, Selectman, Wilmantic Service District, Windham


District of Columbia (6)

Brian Weaver, Advisory Neighborhood Council, Ward 1C
Renee Bowser, Advisory Neighborhood Council, Ward 4
Marc Borbely, Advisory Neighborhood Council
Wesley G. Hickman, Advisory Neighborhood Council
Alex Hogan,Advisory Neighborhood Council
Nate Mathews, Advisory Neighborhood Council



Florida (2)

Charles Baron, Community Commission, Aventura
Kim Oconnor, Soil & Water District Commissioner, Ochlockonee River District


Hawai'i (1)

Bob Jacobson, County Council, District 6, Island of Hawai'i



Idaho (1)

Selene Hall, School Board, Zone 3, Plummer/Worley School District (Benewah County)



Iowa (4)

Tim Harthan, City Council, Emmetsburg
Eric Kinman, City Council, Windsor Heights
Kevin Lee, Town Trustee, Decorah (Winneshiek County)
Cathy Livingston, Soil & Water District Commissioner (Black Hawk)


Kansas (1)

Kent Rowe, Mayor, Langton


Maine (10)

John Eder, State House, District 31
Jane Scease, Select Board, Topsham
Charlie Wiggins, Select Board, Sedgwick
Jerry Hoag, Select Board, Beaver Cove
Erek Gaines, Water District, Portland
Antonio Blasi, Planning Board, Hancock
Robert LaVangie, School Board, Penobscot
Ben Meikeljohn, School Committee At-Large, Portland
Stephen Spring, School Committee, District 2, Portland
Jo Josephson, School Board, Temple



Maryland (1)

Michael Cornell, Board of Directors, River Hill Village (Howard County)


Massachusetts (23)

Chuck Turner, City Council, District 7, Boston
Alan R. Cohen, Town Meeting Seat, North Attleborough
Robert Crowner, Town Meeting Member, Amhers
David Ahlfeld, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Michael Chesworth, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Miriam Dayton, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Tom Flittie, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Frank Gatti, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Christopher Holme, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Steve J. Gross, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Emily Lewis, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Vincent O'Connor, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Michael Sherrard, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
John Wade, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Brent Was, Town Meeting Member, Amherst
Bill O'Neil, Town Meeting Member, Braintree
Jon Romano, Town Meeting Member, Precinct 13, Plymouth
Nat Fortune, School Committee, Whately Elementary, Whately
Bruce Menin, School Committee, Newburyport
Michael Silverstone, School Commitee, Wellesley
Howard Hayward, Water Board of Health, West Bridgeport
George D. Bryant, Barnstable County Provincetown Delegate to County Assembly
Judy Gates, Library Trustee, Marblehead



Michigan (6)

Jim Moreno, City Council, Mount Pleasant
Don Cooney, City Commissioner, Kalamazoo
David Juarez, City Commissioner, Kalamazoo
JoAnne Bier-Beemon, Drain Commissioner (Charlevoix County)
Melissa Hohausher-Thatcher, School Board, Ferndale and Pleasant Ridge (Oakland County)
David Newland, School Board, Bellaire


Minnesota (6)

Natalie Johnson Lee, City Council, Ward 5, Minneapolis (Hennepin County)
Dean Zimmerman, City Council, Ward 6, Minneapolis (Hennepin County)
Russ Stewart, City Council, District 3, Duluth (Superior County)
Annie Young, Parks & Recreation Board, Minneapolis (Hennepin County)
Vic Ormsby, Supervisor, Wiscoy Soil & Water District (Winona County)
Dwayne Voegeli, County Commission, District 2 (Winona County)


Mississippi (1)

John Wages, County Board of Elections, District 3 (Lee)


Nebraska (1)

Steve Larrick, Lower Platte 5, Natural Resources District, Lincoln


New Jersey (2)

James Morrison, Borough Council, Califon
Gary Novosielski, School Board, Rutherford


New Mexico (2)

Fran Gallegos, Municipal Judge, Santa Fe
Gary Clauss, City Council, Silver City


New York (4)

Jason West, Mayor, Village of New Paltz
Rebecca Rotzler, Board of Trustees, Village of New Paltz
Steve Krulick, Board of Trustees, Village of Ellenville (Ulster County)
Rome Celli, School Board, Brighton (Monroe County)


North Carolina (1)

Gray Newman, Chair, Soil & Water District Commissioner (Mecklenburg)


Oregon (9)

Neil Friedman, City Council, West Fir
George Grosch, Ward 3, City Council, Corvalis
Emily Hagen, Ward 7, City Council, Corvalis (Jackson County)
Wendy Siporen, City Council, Talent (Jackson County)
Tim Dehne, Director, Benton County Soil and Water Conservation District
Alexander (Xander) Patterson, East Multnomah Soil and Water Director, Portland (Multnomah County)
Lisa Melyan, Boardmember, Tualatin Valley Water District (Washington County)
John Jones, Board Member, Myrtle Point Health District (Coos County)
Diane Amarotico, Parks Commission, Ashland (Jackson County)


Pennsylvania (26)

Arthur R. Palumbo, Mayor, Windber Borough (Somerset County)
Robert Cogan, Borough Council, Edinboro Borough (Erie County)
Catherine Scheib, Borough Council, Ward 1, Lewisburg Borough (Union County)
Thomas Davidock, Borough Council, Port Clinton Borough (Schuylkill County)
Michael O'Malley, Borough Council, Sinking Spring Borough (Berks County)
Kerry Nee, Borough Council, Sinking Spring Borough (Berks County)
Aaron C. Tedjeske, Borough Council, Windber Borough (Somerset County)
Joel Mount, Borough Council, Yardley Borough (Bucks County)
Michael Zowniriw, Supervisor, Richland Township (Bucks County)
Colleen Bogner, Director, Selinsgrove Area School District (Snyder County)
Nicholas Seigert, Constable, Ward 1, Lancaster (Lancaster County)
Nicholas Seigert, Constable, Ward 5, Lancaster (Lancaster County)
Bill Smedley, Constable, Nippenose Township (Lycoming County)
Michael Helfrich, Judge of Elections (York County)
Frank Divonzo, Auditor, Paxtang Borough (Dauphin County)
Kathleen Edwards, Auditor, Centre Township (Berks County)
Mary Lou Alsentzer, Auditor, Codorus Township (York County)
David Brooks, Auditor, Conestoga Township (Lancaster County)
Kurt Reichenbach, Auditor, East Buffalo Township (Union County)
Dean Hornberger, Auditor, Exeter Township (Berks County)
Mike Korsak, Auditor, Franklin Township, Chester County
April Sullivan, Auditor, Hellam Township (York County)
Edward Gately, Auditor, Manheim Township (York County)
John Irwin, Auditor, Martic Township (Lancaster County)
Ben Price, Auditor, North Middleton Township (Cumberland County)
Phil Getty, Auditor, Solebury Township (Bucks County)


Rhode Island (1)

David Segal, City Council, Ward 1, Providence


Texas (1)

George Rice, Water Board (Bexar County)



Vermont (3)

Ben Clarke, City Councilor, Winooski
Rob Williams, School Board, Waitsfield
Larry Kaplan, School Committee, Wellesly


Virginia (4)

Don Langrehr, Town Council, Blacksburg
Phil Hyre, Natural Bridge Soil & Water Conservation District Board, Lexington
S. Ann Robinson, Soil & Water District Commissioner, Loudon
Greg Allen, Soil & Water Director, Virginia Dare District


Washington (5)

Steve Hotchkiss, City Council, Duvall (King County)
Steve Ludwig, Freeholder, District 3 (San Juan)
Sally Soriano, Director, District 1, School Board, Seattle
James Alfred Smith, School Board, Lopez Island, School #144, Director #2 (San Juan County)
Tim White, Cemetery District, Orcas Island (San Juan County)



Wisconsin (20)

John Hardin, Board of Supervisors, District 1 (Barron County)
Echnaton Vedder, Board of Supervisors, District 8 (Dane County)
Andy Heidt, Common Council, Madison, District 13 (Dane County)
Kyle Richmond, Board of Supervisors District 27 (Dane County)
Bob Browne, Board of Supervisors, District 20 (Douglas County)
David Conley, Board of Supervisors, District 5 (Douglas County)
Kathryn MacKenzie, Board of Supervisors, District 2 (Douglas County)
Greg David, Board of Supervisors, District 3 (Jefferson County)
Taniya Fatticci, Board of Supervisors, District 11 (Portage County)
Phillip Peterson, Board of Supervisors, District 1 (Portage County)
Kevin Ruehl, Board of Supervisors, District 4 (Portage County)
David Machotka, Board of Supervisors, District 16 (Winnebago County)
Brenda Konkel, Common Council, Madison, District 2 (Dane County)
Austin King, Common Council, Madison, District 8 (Dane County)
Brian Benford, Common Council, Madison, District 12 (Dane County)
Pete Karas, Common Council, Racine, District 9
Larry Harding , Town Supervisor, Somers, District 4 (Kenosha)
Robert Stockinger, Village Trustee, Hales Corner
Shwaw Vang, School Board, Seat 3, Madison (Dane County)
Scott Tice, President, School Board, Cumberland

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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-12-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Impressive list--building from the grass roots.
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