Franken is a moderate

[angee_is_mad]

ok,ok,ok, I finally figured it out. What the hell is he doing on progressive radio?

[Maddy McCall]

1. You're right. Progressive radio should be saved for the loonies like...

Janeane Garofalo. Her passive aggression everynight is MUCH more valuable than a "moderate" like Franken.

Honestly! :silly:

[merwin]

2. Because he didn't think that contesting the election was a good idea?

I think he's very progressive... he just doesn't wear a hat :-) Not every progressive has to believe that there was a widespread conspiracy going on.

In fact, there hasn't been any hard evidence linking Blackwell or any other semi-high ranking Republican directly to fraud. If there was, they would be in custody. There's just a lot of damning circumstantial evidence.

[Mr_Spock]

5. I agree with you. Fight at all costs is just as bad as win at all cost

If the fight can't be won then what is the point of fighting? We know that * is a stupid troll that Jon Stuart just plays clips of and looks at the camera and people laugh their ass off. Why? Because that sub-human moron can't speak a single complete logical sentence. I know it's a total embarrassment to this country that * was reelected but there are a lot of morons in this country that need to be educated - fighting the boy king's appointment by morons is fruitless. I agree with Franken.

[TrustingDog]

11. ""If there was, they would be in custody."""

LOL! hey, pollyanna, can I remind you of two words: Ken Lay?
and two more: Martha Stewart.

[Ronbrynaert]

14. It's sad

Too many liberals don't think vote suppression is a crime and a form of fraud, in the end. There is a mountain of evidence tying Blackwell and the entire gop to acts of implicit and explicit vote suppression.


Why do you think those lines were wrong? Precincts were dropped at a maddening rate in Democratic parts of counties...and voting machines were removed. Nothing circumstantial about any of that.

And, yes, you're not progressive at all, if you don't recognize vote suppression, especially directed primarily at African-Americans, as a crime.

Besides, who's going to put them in jail, in any scenario? The Canadian Mounties? Certainly not the Bush Administration. Blackwell's going to get the governorshop for all the hard work he did bringing back Jim Crow.

[merwin]

49. The vote supression can be explained without tying Blackwell

into it as simply poor planning based on the expectation of lower turnout in those areas.

Again, I believe that Blackwell is a scumbag, but he's going to end up clean in this one.

[jonnyblitz]

3. when I saw him speak at a book signing in Harvard SQ

he said he was a DLC democrat who, for example, thought that school vouchers were something that should be explored. Then he ducked down after he said that jokingly like he expected things to be hurled at him from the audience.

[Left coast liberal]

6. I like Al but I would've hurling something at him...

Hey look, folks. There is certainly room in our club for a moderate like Franken. We all have our pet projects. He is focused on the Right-Wing-Nut media. He loves baiting Bill O'Riled up and Rush Scumbag. And, he has plenty to kvetch about, and it probably keeps him busy. He did go to IRAQ with the USO and that took some nerve.

Give the guy a break. He is one of us. They are making inroads into Talk Radio land.

Cut him some slack.

:hi:

[jonnyblitz]

8. he is a damn nice guy

i spoke to him briefly after when he signed my book and he was very easy going and personable. I don't care one way or the other what type of DEM he is because he isnt a politician who votes on things. It would be silly to consider him the enemy though I am not that huge of a fan. :hi:

[pauldp]

4. Al Franken is spineless, self-serving and part of the problem.

Barbara Boxer has twice the balls Al will ever have.
He's also a frightful bore. But I guess AA needs someone as a mascot.

[RadicalMom]

9. Yeah, but he's "good enough,smart enough, and doggone it,

people like" him. He needs to have a good talk with Stuart Smalley.

[angee_is_mad]

12. Popularity

for the station. I guess they needed a well known face to be identified with the station. I know that when the station was just starting out and was having financial problems he did not take a paycheck.

I like the guy. He's not the best comedian, but I like him. I just can't understand how a station that advertise itself as progressive radio and an answer to right wing radio have a MOderate democrat as one of its main talking heads.

Also he is a little too PC for my taste. Give me a fanatical Randi or Mike any day. They are extreme and a little kooky, but at least you know they are going to tell it like it is and to hell what anyone else thinks!

[K-W]

29. Yes, but some people, like me, would rather listen to Al.

Why exactly some people feel the need to purge the progressive movement of people like Al Franken who regularly deconstructs the idiocy of the right and presents, what is ideologically a very progressive stance is beyond me.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pauldp]

53. Let's define which problem we are talking about.

I'm talking about the lack of attention to election reform. Let's face it * would not be pres now or after Jan 20th if he had not stolen Florida in 2000. Al ignore's election reform completely, when it is actually the root cause of the problem that is Bush.

[bunkerbuster1]

47. AA needs someone who doesn't make a damn fool of himself

during Rush's slot on the other hate-radio stations.

Al Franken is that guy. If we counter the ridiculous breathless bluster of Rush with the ridiculous breathless bluster (which I often agree with, mind you, but bluster it still is) of a Randi, I don't see it helping us.

We're not going to reach the hard-core RW thugs, but plenty of reasonable people tune in to Rush on occasion. When he takes a break, you can bet they switch to something else, and if AA is an alternative, I like our chances.

Just one reason I like Al. the main reason I like him is I find him genuninely thoughtful, respectful of all honestly-arrived-at opinions, and a mensch.

[pauldp]

55. I agree

Unfortunately the the one level headed DJ with the biggest audience ignores our Democracy's most crucial current issue which is election reform.

Shrub would never have taken office in 2000 if we had free and fair elections. Al's harping on Limbaugh is like someone who has a car with no wheels or transmission and yet they do nothing but complain about their cracked windsheild.

[RadicalMom]

7. Franken lost us...

about the second day after the election. We watched him cry on air when Kerry conceded. After that it was as if he'd totally lost his commitment to the things he'd been fighting for so hard in the previous months. He refused to listen to anything like a conspiracy theory, or for that matter anything that might come back to haunt him when he wants to make nice with people in power, when he makes his run for Senator of in, I think, 2006. This pattern began to appear more noticeably in the week following his Sundance TV broadcasts ended. I continued to read his blog for a while, after we had written to him and Sundance, begging them to keep the TV show (we can't get it on radio}. Now we don't care.

[Ronbrynaert]

10. I stopped listening to Franken on November 3rd

Not because I feel differently about him...but because I was afraid of feeling differently about him because I knew what he was going to say.

But...I did tune in from time to time and he spoke up election reform pretty much every two minutes when I listened....so don't be too harsh on him. Air America has been running commercials for the last month every hour with him asking for people to support democrats in Ohio. I'm sure he's been responsible for many people and money coming into this.

The thing about Al is that his humour and satire are as lefty and liberal as you can get...but his politics are very moderate.

But no matter what...he has been a strong influence on my political being. I've watched snl since the first season and he has made me think and laugh through the years.

Save your wrath for the 74 senators who said "nay" today. And the bloggers like Markos of Daily Kos and the Wonkette who helped today happen by belittling our movement. And speaking of movement, the gloves are off, Moveon.org deserves to fade into obscurity for it's lack of a presence these last two months, even though it's members and contributors named the election as their chief concern at their meetings a month or so ago. Moveon.org is just like the stolen election...neither reflects the will of the people. I'm going to be writing about their cowardice and treason on my blog sometime soon.

[rooboy]

13. Franken is a DLC Democrat...

who supported the invasion of Iraq. Whilst he's entertaining to listen to, I don't think he invests a lot of time in thinking about the deeper issues of American politics.

[angee_is_mad]

15. future campaign

in an earlier post someone said that he is looking to possibly run for office. I recall hearing about that. If that is true it all makes total sense now.

He does not want the repubs to use any outtakes from his show against him in a general election. Kinda like a "I voted for it before I voted against it" moment.

I'm just in a pissy mood right now and Malloy got me all riled up and then Franken comes on with his moderate rhetoric.

[oc2002]

46. The thing about Malloy is, that he is suppose to rile you up.

And thats good.

thats his thing, and he does it well.

Al is a different perspective, more of a cold look at reality, the Bush lies, and the Republican agenda is more of his show.

[phylny]

26. I have a question

Would you, or someone else, please explain what the DLC is? I mean, I know that the DNC is the Democratic National Committee and I know that DLC stands for Democratic Leadership Council - or at least I *think* I know that :) - but is the DLC an organization within the DNC? Are they separate entities? Is there a power struggle going on?

I feel ignorant on this issue, especially when I see the posts criticizing the DLC.

Thanks so much!

[rooboy]

31. Instead of taking my word for it...

just google the term. You'll find plenty of research material there.

They're basically just a little elite Republican-lite group within the Democratic Party. They kiss up to big business and are just the sort of people who would NEVER let Howard Dean lead the party.

[phylny]

33. I did Google it, thanks.

That's how I found out what DLC meant :)

What I want to know is why so many people here seem to be against the DLC.

So, if anyone can enlighten me, I'd really appreciate it!

[rooboy]

34. They're elitists....

and they're selling out progressive ideals. Want a classic example? NAFTA - moving American jobs offshore to improve the profitability of multinational corporations. Another example? Clinton supporting the Iraq invasion.

They don't represent the rank-and-file Democrats. When was the last time you heard Al From in the media or at a rally discussing the party with average Dems?

I think the mere fact that you need to ask who the hell they are says something, doesn't it?

[phylny]

36. And the mere fact that Al From is their guru

tells me the rest.

Thanks so much, rooboy, for taking the time to respond!

[bunkerbuster1]

42. Democratic. Loser. Committee.

j/k.

Put me down as liking and respecting Franken a great deal.

oy oy oy, what's with all the pointless infighting and criticism?
the bastids!

[K-W]

32. He didn't support the Iraq invasion. that is a LLLLLIIIIIEEEEE

[rooboy]

35. It is NOT a lie!!!!

He has said MANY TIMES on his radio show that he initially supported the invasion but changed his mind when it became evident there were no WMD there.

Want to bet?

[oc2002]

44. Al flip-floped on Iraq is true.

He was a believer of the White House stories of WMD's. He has said so many times on the show. That does not make him any less of anything, since alot of people where, at the time, bamboozled by the drum beat to war, like the NYtimes, Washpost...many other included.

The differance is he saw the lies and has pointed them out.

[NuttyFluffers]

48. you are quite wrong about that, go back to the audio archives.

he's said countless times that he initially supported the war in iraq, including believing colin powell, and then later he realized he was lied to and deceived by this gov't and got real mad.

stop posting nonsense and go search the audio archives. hell airamericaplace might be a good place to start. don't pass off your bias as truth and call others liars off-hand.

as much as i like al as a comedian and entertaining radio host he does have his issues. it's ok to have differing opinions, but to be so... naive?, is that the right word?, in the face of outright criminals is just foolheardy. bless him, he doesn't have a suspicious bone in his body; he so often gives people the benefit of the doubt. you can tell he came from friendly, open minnesota (with intense critical thinking training based on classical reasoning) and not cynical, street-wise new york (like randi) or the deviously polite south (such as atlanta georgia, like malloy). they follow their guts and intuition when in the face of danger, he follows his knowledge and logic. both are useful, but when dealing with these shifty bastards one is too slow to keep up with their maneuvering. he needs to open his wisdom and intuition more to people who are more experienced in dealing with evil and danger.

[ElectroPrincess]

41. Perhaps, but Frankin DOES make many good points throughout his

program. Don't figuratively throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[LSdemocrat]

16. Actually, primarily he is a political comedian

He's on progressive radio for entertainment value. For serious analysis, you'd have to listen to another radio show.

[chicagojoe]

20. Exactly.

[bluestateguy]

17. Perhaps

But Air America needs one, just one, token moderate who will be perceived as mainstream by the corporate media organizations. He serves his purpose, and Garafolo, Malloy and Rhodes serve their purposes.

[angee_is_mad]

18. k, right wing radio

who is their Franken? Different strokes for different folks?

[chicagojoe]

19. Why are you attacking someone who's on our side?

Let's not start sounding like a bunch of bitch, er, Hannitys.
Moderates aren't the Radical Right, therefore, not the enemy.

[angee_is_mad]

21. I like the guy

honest. I am listening to him right now and it just hit me how moderate he is. The democratic party is big enough for everyone.

I was just wondering why there is a moderate democrat on a progressive station. But I believe I've figured it out with the help of the posts.

[chicagojoe]

22. Most moderates have progressive values.

I suppose some who call themselves progressives think moderates are conservatives. I often get confused by certain labels.
You see, where I live(Chicago area), things are a bit different.
We actually have SOME progressive, and dare I say, liberal re-pubs.
That Alan Keyes character came here to run for the Senate. He was even hated here by 99% of Republicans. But I digress.
My point is, a progressive where I'm from is pretty much anyone who is not part of the Radical Right.

[K-W]

30. Franken isnt moderate

People seem to be confusing the tone of the rhetoric with the stance on the issues.

Even if Franken calls himself a DLC democrat, he isnt one. I think the DLC has yet to discredit itself in his eyes, but I have no doubt it will.

He is intellectually honest and holds our values. He may be a little slow to see the rampant societal problems, but he will come around. He respects reason and the facts.

[jonnyblitz]

37. that is a good way of putting it.

:thumbsup:

[lojasmo]

39. He supported a DLC democrat in the primaries. N/T

[Pushed To The Left]

23. Moderates and liberals

should stick together, because we need to be on the same team to defeat the right wing.

[nascarblue]

24. He has political aspirations...

Didint you hear him say that a few times during the Democratic National Convention? He wants to run in his home state. That's why he won't make waves. And of anyone on AAR, I feel he's the least qualified of most at AAR to really make any changes if elected. He's too "go with the flow". As you might have noticed, he made no waves about Ohio.

[retread]

25. Yes he is a moderate. He has an excellent guest list which

more than makes up for that "shortcoming."

[K-W]

27. If you dont like him dont listen. Sheesh.

Al Franken is a liberal comedian on a liberal network. While his rhetoric tends to be mild, on the issues, he is to the left of the dlc and the dnc.

More importantly, catagorizing him serves little purpose. He, like any individual, has his own diverse set of beliefs and ideas many of which are very progressive. Stop trying to devide the world into factions. If you like what he has to say listen, if you dont, dont.

But im guessing that im preaching to the other church's choir in a thread like this, so why am I wasting my morning.

[toddaa]

38. This thread is an example of why Democrats will continue to lose elections

Until the lefter than thou purists stop "purging" the party ranks of people who don't measure up to their fantasy of what a "real" Democrat is supposed to believe, the Republicans will win election after election.

To put this into an historical context, Harry Truman was a DINO.

[kodi]

40. you got it ass-backwards bub

let's deconstruct your remarks:

"Until the lefter than thou purists stop "purging" the party ranks of people who don't measure up to their fantasy of what a "real" Democrat is supposed to believe, the Republicans will win election after election."

the "party" hasn't purged anyone from the center of the political spectrum. instead, those left of center are the ones purged and disenfranchised for standing up for life-long and cherished beliefs that the purpose of government is to do justice to its citizens.


or the rather insane remark:

"To put this into an historical context, Harry Truman was a DINO."

in a historical perspective, you are attempting to graft truman's strong stand on national defense against communist regimes as the only thing he stood for and use it as the demarcation for the moderate/leftist boundary.

its pure bunkum, because truman also advocated in 1948 a national health care program funded entirely by the government which no moderate democrat would support today.

so, in affect, truman was to the left of most moderates in today's the democratic party.

he also integrated the US armed forces at a time when blacks were still being lynched in the country and the only thing comparable today would be standing up for allowing homosexuals in the armed forces.

show us the moderate democrats who support that and show how the % of moderates who support it is higher than those left-of-center who support gays in the military.

even with the passage of 57 years and the concomitant change in society, truman was a better democrat than the current crop of democratic party leaders whose goal in life seems to be their own self aggrandizement and pocket lining from the public coffers.

[toddaa]

51. Congratulations...

you completely missed my point.

Purges of any kind, whether it be those on the left or those towards the center is the very reason why the Democratic Party is losing national elections. For the past 30 or so years, it has become so factionalized that it has suffered far more from infighting than from Republican campaigns.

In this thread, we see Al Franken being "cleansed" from the ranks of acceptable Democratic spokesmen. In other forums, it's Michael Moore. Until Democrats can stop beating each other up, there is no way they will ever beat the Republicans.

[kodi]

52. i got it the 1st time & your use of such a false syllogism was lame.

exaggerating the rheorical devices of your adversaries reflected more poorly on your debating abilities than it did their own arguments.

your most recent post on purges is beyond laughable and you appear to have the weird idea that evil DUers have some sort of influence on the running of the democratic party.

we don't.

but what remains of the party is increasingly conservative on social issues long thought decided by party principles. so how then has any purge of moderation brought that about?

it hasn't.

it is the liberal wing of the party that has been rolled back for two decades and now we face the active participation of "moderate" democrats in the dismantling of liberal social programs that built the middle class in post war america.

instead of attacking with trite rhetoric those who are upset that the moderates have sold out cherished democratic party principles, instead you might cast your critical eye towards the real problems with the democratic party, viz., that it has become just the slightly more liberal wing of the national business party.

[toddaa]

56. Binge first

then purge. Until you understand that, you will continue to lose.

And I've always viewed the democratic party as the slightly more liberal wing of the big corporation party.

[newportdadde]

43. I actually like Al and I think its good that we have a

voice out there which addresses and attacks right wing lies. Randi going on and on about how NOBODY would ever stand in line for hours to vote Bush its impossible gets old. Note to Randi: Bush supporters although delusional will do just that to support their appointed by God president.. :puke:

I think though there is some confusion here about moderate vs progressive. I consider myself progressive but I'm not into tin foil hat theories very much although they are interesting to read about. So even though I'm for gay marriage, pro choice etc its seems like not going full :tinfoilhat: makes you moderate.

I don't think you can pummel Al for his stance on Ohio he obviously supported efforts in Ohio before and after the election. He just isn't ranting with the tin foil hat on he was waiting to see if more hard evidence surfaced, real hard evidence that could be proved in a court of law and that never materialized for him in the form he was looking for.

[oc2002]

45. Al is a moderate, and thats a GOOD THING. Unless you want to only hear one

..voice in the party. Like the Republicans who have silenced the moderates in thier party(more like bought them off).

Al is great, we need his support, his wit and his humor to survive the next four years.

[NYCGirl]

58. Actually, the Republicans trot out their moderates to put a nicer face on

the party at social events (conventions, etc.) That's when they whip out Guiliani, McCain or Arnold.

Edited to add: And I LOVE Al Franken. Yes, he can be a little on the moderate side (BTW, he was a close friend of the Wellstones, so I suspect he's less moderate than everyone thinks), but I love his show.

[Kahuna]

50. Franken is a moderal liberal. He's a liberal. But he's not..

a socialist/commie lefty.

[TheEconomist]

54. We need moderates

So maybe its a good thing. There is a reason why Clinton was so popular, because he was so moderate. When he was gov of Ark, he was actually Pro life and pro gun!

[Geek_Girl]

57. I think it's good to have a variation on Progressive Radio

Al's a moderate I got that impression the first time I listened to his show. I like his show but I like Randi Rhodes' show more. I think she's hilarious. But Al is good because he can appeal to all listeners both liberal and conservative. He's a strong alternative to Rush and O'Reily.

[ChairOne]

59. Woohoo! lefiter-than-thou-ism is still alive! /eom