My wife went to the Gynecologist yesterday

[akwapez]

The nurse had a list of questions to ask for which she was writing down the responses. Once I heard these questions, I know I would NOT have even answered (too bad I don't go to the Gyno). She began asking personal questions "How is your marriage", "How's the relationshop with your Mom & Dad",...
then came "Do you go to Church?"
Instead of asking what the hell this has to do with her medical records, she answered "no."
At which point the nurse actually asked "WHY NOT?"
WTF? I have never heard of the medical field wanting such information. Has anyone else had this happen?

[VivaKerry]

1. CREEPY!!!!! n/t

[ohio_liberal]

2. No, never

What medical value do those sorts of questions have?

[China_cat]

3. Once

Found a new doctor. But there is one here in Charleston who is actually an MD (as opposed to a homeopath or naturopath) who recommends prayer for chest pains instead of an EKG...but only for his FEMALE patients.

[KitchenWitch]

7. grr

That is because men have heart attacks but women just have anxiety attacks... GRRR

They come up with a new drug for erectile dysfunction about once a week, but they want to ban female contraception...and all other women's health initiatives.

[elehhhhna]

12. REPORT HIM ASAP! He's damnned dangerous!

[serryjw]

95. He MUST be related to Dr David Hager.........

n/t

[MatrixEscape]

4. Time for a new doctor?

That sounds very unprofessional and crosses some lines to me.

[Sgent]

5. Yes....

Modern primary care physicians are moving towards looking at not just the physical aspects, but also looking for signs of depression, etc. One of the major indicators of depression is whether or not someone has a spiritual life -- people without one are more likely to suffer from depression, stroke, HTN, etc.

That being said, I've never seen a study that looked at church attendence -- but rather spiritual support. This last question was poorly asked and and the nurse shouldn't have responsed like that at all.

[mairceridwen]

26. nice.

It's good to see someone around here not immediately throwing up a knee-jerk reaction.

The question was poorly asked, but many doctors (including my own) ask more "personal" questions to get an overall picture of a patient's health.

I think a more responsible way of framing the question would be, "Do you practice religion or have any spiritual support network?" And if the answer is no, then ask, "Do you have a comprable support network or activities in your life?" Or something like that. Perhaps people want to know "why not?" because they are concerned that church may cause anxiety for some people who grew up in churches that ultimately contradicted their beliefs. Did anyoen here ever think of THAT? Of course not.

There was a time when some liberals thought medicine should be more than just a few short questions. Whatever happened to breaking down the mind-body philosophy that is so pervasive in conventional medicine and neglects the way that spirituality affects both physical and mental health.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do things like that and obviously the nurse/this study is doing things wrong, but before everyone gets all up in arms about how this is indicative of the corporate theocarcy our country is becoming, they might consider the bigger picture.

[Kber]

57. My first knee jerk reaction

is "No, but I do attend synogugue sometimes" and my second is "I don't want my religious habits documented in a medical file somewherer!"

I understand the logic behind some of the questions though. I was somewhat taken aback when my new pediatrition asked whether we had a child seat and if I knew the number for poison control on our first visit. In retrospect though, they were both good questions to ask. If he had asked about our plans for the religious education of our son, however, I'd have been out of there!

[mairceridwen]

60. I totally understand that

I had a nurse practitioner once who, had she asked about the religious education for my children (of which I have non yet), I would have been perfectly comfortable saying that my partner and I are going to this that and the other thing, because she was very cool, very liberal, and was geniunely interested in the lives of her patients. I'm not so sure about wanting to talk about that with just anyone. Still, when a doctor asks if spirituality is important to me (and not how often I go to church), I am grateful for that kind of inquiry.

[Digit]

92. I would immediately change doctors!

It is one thing asking what religion you are, so if an emergency arose, they would know whether to contact a rabbi or priest...in case you HAD a preference.
It is another thing ENTIRELY to ask if you attend church.
OUT OF LINE!

[serryjw]

97. If I want a PAP smear...........

YOU don't need to know about my spiritual practices......IF I was complaining of depression, she should have been sent to a shrink....OB-GYN or HIS nurse is NOT qualified.

[stanwyck]

40. please

provide the basis for your "major indicator of depression is whether or not someone has a spiritual life". Links? Studies? By whom? Which religions? Data? Or is this a personal theory?
We'd appreciate the background. Thanks.

[mairceridwen]

46. more:

PSYCInfo database reserach on "religion and depression" turned up over 300 links. Of course, what I have is more complicated that what you asked, but suffice to say that many people believe that there is SOME link between spirituality and depression.



Here are some highlights:

Title
Chapter
Research in clinical psychology: Why is there so much depression today? .
Source
Cohen, Ira S (Ed). (1989). The G. Stanley Hall lecture series, Vol. 9. The G. Stanley Hall lecture series. (pp. 75-96). Washington, DC, US: American Psychological Association. 164 pp.
Abstract
(from the preface) Provides a case illustration of research in clinical psychology by addressing the question, Why is there so much depression today? The author begins by pointing out that the rate of depression among contemporary Americans is much higher--perhaps ten times higher--now than years ago, and proceeds to offer epidemiological and anthropological evidence in support of this finding. He then argues that this change is due to an increase in individualism in modern (post-World War II) American society concomitant with a diminished involvement with the larger, supporting institutions (family, religion, country) that can be referred to as the "commons." Taken together, he continues, this results in individuals particularly vulnerable to depression, a disorder of learned helplessness when the self is thwarted. The resolution to this dilemma, he suggests, is certainly not to escape from the freedoms that individualism brings, but rather 'to strike a healthier balance between commitment to the self and to the common good." (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2004 APA, all rights reserved)


Author
Vogel, Alisa Lynn.
Title
The effects of religiosity on depression and self-esteem in adolescents.
Source
Dissertation Abstracts International: Section B: The Sciences & Engineering. Vol 64(9-B), 2004, 4641. US: Univ Microfilms International.
Abstract
This study researched the effects of religiosity on depression and self-esteem in adolescents. Orally administered questionnaires were completed by 31 adolescents at 2 churches in California. The instruments used included the Beck Depression Inventory (BDI) and the Self-Esteem Scale (SES). Additionally, items to determine participants' gender and meaningfulness of religion were also administered. The results of this study did not indicate a significant relationship between high and low meaningfulness and levels of depression and self-esteem in adolescents. Future research should include a comparison of frequent and nonfrequent church attenders. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2004 APA, all rights reserved)

Author
El-Jamil, Fatimah M.
Title
Shame, guilt, and mental health: A study on the impact of cultural and religious orientation.
Source
Dissertation Abstracts International: Section B: The Sciences & Engineering. Vol 64(3-B), 2003, 1487. US: Univ Microfilms International.
Abstract
This study examined the mental health effects of shame-proneness and guilt-proneness in individuals of two different culture groups, Lebanese and American, representative of collective and individualistic societies, respectively. One hundred eighty-eight participants filled out the TOSCA, Test of Self-Conscious Affect, to assess levels of shame and guilt, and the BSI, Brief Symptom Inventory, to assess levels of hostility, depression, anxiety, and paranoia. The Duke Religion Index was used to measure levels of intrinsic religiosity, private religiousness, and public/institutional religiousness. Results indicated that shame was a strong predictor of hostility and depression in the American, individualistic group only, whereas no relationships existed between shame and any measure of psychological distress in the Lebanese, collectivist group. In addition, higher religiosity served as a protection against depression and anxiety in both culture groups; however, when religiosity was examined as a moderator of the relationships between shame and depression and shame and anxiety, results demonstrated that higher religiosity intensified the relationship between shame and psychological distress. These findings enhance our understanding of the roles that culture and religion play in modifying both the positive and negative consequences of the "self-conscious" emotions, shame and guilt. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2004 APA, all rights reserved)

There's tons and tons and tons more. From a variety of ideological and theoretical perspectivess.

[stanwyck]

56. Based on your info

which includes a scattergun approach Pollock would appreciate, are you advocating that physicians prescribe religion as a course of treatment? If so, which religion? How much is sufficient? In what dosage? Should physicians also attend seminary in addition to medical school? And if spirituality leads to fewer emotional issues, how do you explain religious terrorists? Shouldn't their spirituality lead them to more reflective, contented lives? What other factors contribute to depression or the lack thereof? Salary? Number of orgasms per week? How many questions do you want your healthcare provider to ask? Hey, it's all in the name of your health. Political affiliation? Maybe that's what causing the depression. Maybe listening to Rush and voting for conservatives is "healthier". Doctor's orders.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ixat]

64. Norman Cousins, anyone?

http://www.indiadiets.com/Alternative%20Healing/Laughter.htm

Being an atheist, I can nevertheless see how being a part of some uplifting organization like a church may actually be good for you physically. I don't think that doctors should prescribe it, at least until we can figure out the exact mechanisms and dosage... but it's a fact that religion is a rather mobilizing experience, and it has been well-documented that in cases of war and adversity, mobilization of the individual accounts for stronger constitutions and lower rates of illness (re: Alexander Solzhenitsyn on the unusual resilience of GULag prisoners).

I don't see what this has in common with religious terrorism, though - the effects described by mairceridwen include psychological healing of physical disorders, and not irrational behavior (which, it would seem, also blossoms along with religion).

[stanwyck]

86. I'd agree that religion is a

"mobilizing experience"...the Crusades, Northern Ireland, the Mideast, the Holocaust, the genocide of the Mayans, Incans, and Native Americans. Not sure if that's the "uplifting" organization you're speaking of...and millions of people's health has suffered. As in being slaughtered in the name of religion. That's the part you're leaving out. Sure, those with religious faith might "do better in wars." But why did the war begin? Religous differences?
Jim Jones was a spiritual leader. And David Koresch. Not too healthy for those folks.
You're only citing one side of this argument.

[mairceridwen]

67. My point

was not to advocate any particular position but to provide information on the validity of the claim that there is a relationship between depression and religion. And in no way did I suggest that economics, sexual behaviorm politics, and other things do not affect mental health/depression and I don't think that any good research would either.

My personal opinion is that health care should be scientific and epirical, but it can and should also be personal and individualized and issues of spirituality and/or religion should be approached comprehensively and not with the intent to impose one's beliefs on another. Maybe a fundamentalist christian doctor couldn't do that, but you never know, and it seems likely that other doctors could. S/he doesn't have to attend seminary school, but if a doctor thinks that religious beliefs are adversly affecting someone's sexual health than he can and should suggest resources for dealing with that. S/he doesn't have to prescribe anything, but s/he can be informed and point patients in certain directions.

It's a personal issue, and very complex. Many people's religion/spirituality (or lack thereof) has left them traumatized, depressed, anxious, or delusional. Others have left them contented, reflective, and at peace. Many people are happy and healthy as secular humanists, others are not. That's the point and if doctors want to consider the whole person when assessing wellbeing, then they should understand that.

[stanwyck]

85. this seems like a dangerous

precedent, doctors advising on spirituality. Most doctors rarely have the time these days for the type of personal questions you're advocating. And what if the doctor's spiritual advice leads to adverse effects? Is this a cause of malpractice? If a Catholic doctor opposes a procedure, based on faith, and the patient's health suffers, is this negligence? Or proper spiritual guidance? We've already had numerous posts on druggists refusing to fill prescriptions based on religious beliefs. Do we want the same from doctors? Nurses? What if the surgeon's beliefs are different than the referring doctor? Whose beliefs take precedence with the patient? Faith-based medical care seems like a minefield. I'd rather stick to my Midwestern roots when you didn't know a person's religious beliefs unless you were attending their wedding or their funeral.
I guess public school teachers are next on the list. How else can they treat the "whole" child if they don't include spirituality in the classroom?

[mairceridwen]

87. once again

It's only appropriate if it has NOTHING to do with the doctor's beliefs and I am not advocating spiritual healing (apart from those who seek it from people trained to do it). I am just saying that a patient's religious and spiritual beliefs can sometimes affect his or her health and doctors should be concerned about that. If they can't do that without getting their own beliefs involved, then they shouldn't. That most doctors don't have time for those questions has nothing to do with the relavance of the issue, that is a separate problem entirely. And no, public school teachers are not next. The student-teacher relationship is drastically different from the relationship between an adult and his or her doctor and should be structured accordingly.

[serryjw]

99. FYI......4 ORGASMS a week...............

Is recommended by a REAL cartiologist....I posted this a while back!

Oprah did one of the finest shows today. Dr Oz & Dr Ornish took us INSIDE the human body! They showed what smoking,drinking and too much weight to our major organs. It was really an eye opening show. If you desire you can order the tape. Beside all the obvious that we should know and don't do to live & be healthy into our 80's or 90's, Dr Oz said that you should try and have 4 orgasm a week! So when your partner is not interested.....just mention it was recommended by the #1 cardiologist in the country!

http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200401/tows_past_20040130.jhtml

[stanwyck]

106. Thanks, serryjw

Personally, I'll be more impressed with a doctor who asks about my sex life as a health issue than I will with a doctor who wants to know how regularly I attend church and which church I attend.
Let's all try to stay healthy by making sure we get our four a week.

[serryjw]

113. I'll toast to that!

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[politicat]

98. uh, no. Actually, that "study" conflicts with one sponsored by UU.

University of Utah went looking for a correllation between spirituality and depression indicated by anti-depressant or anti-anxiety medication use. They found one.. a negative one. Spirituality, especially of the fundamentalist variety, is likely to make you more depressed.

The biggest consumer of Valium and Prozac nationwide per capita is the State of Utah. Go figure.

I'll find the journal and post the biblio if you want. It's in a box out in the shed and it's less than 20 degrees out there, but for you? Anything.

Anecdotally, my atheist or non-religious clients are more motivated to get better and get busy living their lives than my religious patients. My atheist clients also are more consistent in taking medication and advice and in participating to the fullest extent in their treatment.

The idea that the lack of a "spiritual" life is a sign of impending mental illness is a prejudice. It is as bad as saying that most physical problems women have are emotional or women's emotional problems are based in the existence of a uterus in their bodies. It's bigotry.

Please don't perpetuate it.

[seabeyond]

6. havent been for years, but thanks for the heads up

a huge wow. preg i would go to doctor and one of first question was how does hubby treat you.............but i can understand that goes into the blend of making baby, emotions and development, part of preg, but never never has a gynocologist asked me questions like that in any visit.

talked abortion issue too, cause i was older preg and suppose to have test. when i said regardless wouldnt abort he said then we dont need to do test. but even on that he was very sensitive to allow me to express before he chimed in. totally comfortable to answer anyway. and i am in panhandle of texas

but then he is a minority, catholic, but seems liberal. interesting. gotta make an appt now, to see what they ask

[Mabeline]

41. You know, my doctor

did the same thing. I am an older than most mom and my ob wanted an amneo...and he said much the same as yours. Never got ask any of those (to me) too personal questions though, other than some about my eating habits when we found out I had gestational diabetes.

[barb162]

75. is this MD associated with a religious hospital

[Mabeline]

90. My ob/gyn was associated

with a teaching hospital, had a nice maternity ward...he moved before I got pregnant with my second and was at a "plain old hospital". (Much nicer office, maternity ward wasn't as good.)

[China_cat]

42. One of the reasons for the

'how does hubby treat you' question is that men who abuse seem to get worse when their wives are pregnant.

[seabeyond]

43. exactly

i understood why he was asking, lol lol. and also, fathers get odd which add stress to mother. yes. stress bad for fetus.

and he was aware of this, and was important. i appreciated

of course, for any male, yes the woman gets odd too. really really odd why, partly, the male gets so odd

and ammio whatever, yes

now this feeds into the doctors seem to be organizing in judging their treatment

they are getting confident, and maybe more out there then what we could ever imagine. and we are on attack of female, male have got to get control. also goes with the fda doctor bush put in. and the pharmacists that are deciding if drug, who drug, what drug for women and gays in their religious stance.

[Killarney]

8. Holy shit. That is sooo wrong.

They are just supposed to ask if you're sexually active and if you are using birth control and if so what kind. They also ask the date of your last period. That's it. That's all they need to know.

You wife should report the nurse. That is truly weird.

[mairceridwen]

33. of course...

Because non-sexual lifestyle issues have no bearing on physical and mental health.

People's spiritual and religions inclinations never have any impact on their attitudes toward sexuality, which in turn never affects sexual health.


There is a right way and a wrong way to do this. The nurse did it wrong. But that doesn't mean there can't be any room for personal questions to get a better sense of a person's overall state of wellbeing.

[amazona]

71. we don't live in that world

We have no expectation of medical privacy. In the real world, we should not have private information documented about our marital situation, our religious practice, or other personal matters included in a medical file that any insurer can access at will and at whim.

There is no right way to do this and protect my access to future health care. Having some nurse, decide I am depressed because I don't go to church, can mean I can't buy private health insurance in some states. People have been denied insurance coverage because of a few weeks of being treated for mild depression.

You can't play with this stuff. These questions might be fine in another universe. But not this one.

[mairceridwen]

73. well therein lies the problem

About privacy, not about the relevance to mental health. People should not be denied health insurance for being treated for depression. That's just stupid and wrong on so many levels.

That's just another way that insurance is going to fuck things up with people. People will withhold vital personal information out of the very real fear of the insurance company seeing their information and then compromise their mental and also physical health. How fucked up is that?

You can't play with this stuff, no. But we can demand better from our society. Oh wait. Not anymore we can't :(

[Sperk]

9. gross me out the door.....what a ridiculous round of questions!

What state are you from? Just wondering if something like this is more likely in the bible belt.

[Paradise]

10. Sorry about that. Hard to believe... n/t

[Sperk]

16. With all the nuttiness going on in this country....you find if hard to

believe? I think it's VERY believable.

[Sperk]

18. I think I may have misread your post...sorry.

I took it as....I find that hard to believe

[Paradise]

23. Thanks for understanding. :) n/t

[leesa]

11. I work in a clinic. That is not acceptable. Please report the incident.

[madinmaryland]

13. I'd report them to the state medical board.

That is unethical. and change to another doctor! asap

[Coyote_Bandit]

14. Here in Crazy Red F*cking JOklahoma

there are "christian" medical clinics. I would expect them to ask those kinds of questions and, obviously, to refuse to do abortions under any circumstance and - probably - they would refuse to provide cotraceptives to single women. They are some sick combination of medicine, "christian morality" and prayer. There is a large clinic like that here in Tulsa that requires its doctors to go on mission trips. I know someone who works there in a support position. She is a liberal to moderate Christian who is afraid to discuss either religion or politics because of possible negative repercussions with her employment. JOklahoma is an employment at will (or fire at will) state.

And lets not forget that Tom Coburn is an example of a good "christian" medical doctor. Remember he sterilized a woman without her consent.

[MemphisTiger]

15. Is this Gyno clinic in a hospital that is affiliated with a

religion?

[sweetheart]

17. its worse in britain

They ask "Does your husband beat you?"
And stuff like that. I'm no advocate of abuse, but it is
disconcerting when the state feels it has the right to ask
such invasive questions. (The doctors work for the national
health service, that is a public body of the british state)

[soleft]

21. I'd rather be asked this question a million times than doI go to church

[sweetheart]

29. Yes, that is a bit much

I presume most church-folks are assuaged by such questions...

Myself i think i'd just ask "next question" and if they insisted,
i'd reply that i attend the church of "Its none of your business." :-)

[sariku]

35. There is a good reason for that question, though...

And to be honest, I think that it is a GOOD sign that doctors are asking about abuse. They are showing an awareness and concern over the issue. The question is usually paired with a willingness to help the woman in question.

The AMA has an article on this: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13845.html

[jmm]

61. They do it here too.

This summer I was ill and had to go to the hospital a few times. Each time they asked me if I was in a mentally or physically abusive relationship or living in an abusive environment. They said it was some screening they were required to do.

[mantis49]

70. I don't know about other states,

but in IL, if medical professionals suspect spousal abuse, they are mandated reporters.

[DrWeird]

77. If you answer "no"...

Does the nurse get upset and ask you "WHY NOT?"

[Digit]

93. I don't mind that question, either

Victims of spousal abuse might try to hide the abuse, but if they were directly asked, they might admit to it.

[TBreeze]

19. odd

That doesn't sound right. My doctor asks how I'm doing, how things are at home, etc. because I have a history of depression. And I do like that my doctor is concerned about that aspect for me. I've never been asked if I go to church or why/why not. That doesn't sound like an appropriate question for a medical professional to ask. Emotional or spiritual wellbeing would be lumped into the 'how are you doing' question anyway wouldn't it? I can't figure out the need for a separate question on church attendance.

[MountainLaurel]

20. Maybe they're checking to see if she's a fundie

Who's going to show up with an assault weapon one day to save the all those unborn babies the doctors are killing with oral contraceptives?

:eyes:

[OffWithTheirHeads]

22. The obgyn was just

practicing his love on her

[ElsewheresDaughter]

24. NO!..creepy for sure...where the hell do you live?

[dddem]

25. Wow!

Maybe because I'm from the liberal gay-loving commonwealth of Massachusetts, or maybe it's because (lucky me!) my doctor is a vocal democrat, and a feminist (his lucky wife), but this shocks me. I always thought medical people were of a more scientific, less faith- based mindset.
I would make sure (if you like your doctor) that you tell him how inappropriate his nurse was, or else I would find a new doctor. What an experience!

[mairceridwen]

27. My doctor asks lots of personal questions

And I am grateful for it.

Relationship and non-sexual lifestyle issues do impact physical health. Also mental health. Which almost always affects sexual health. And so on.

If you don't want to answer something or feel that it doesn't affect you, then don't. Simple.


That said, the whole church attendence thing should have been more broadly stated (to include spiritual support or comprable activities). And the nurse shouldn't have responded that way. That was completely unprofessional.

[stanwyck]

39. please provide the links

to your assertion that one's spiritual life has a direct relationship with health. It sounds plausible. But do you actually have data? And does that data involve organized religion? Which religions? How was the information gathered? By whom? Please backup your statements with facts. Thanks.

[mairceridwen]

44. please provide the evidence

of where I said that one's spiritual life has a direct relationship with health. I said no such thing. I said that someone's religious/background can impact someone's sexual/mental, and yes ultimately physical well-being. That's not the same thing.

If I implied that, I was making a fair generalization and you are just being nitpicky but to be fair, I will elaborate:

Anyone with even half an open mind should be able to understand the likelyhood of a relationship between religion (organized or otherwise) and people's attitude's about sex, reproduction, and birth control and that this MAY impact physical and mental health.

It goes without saying that many women who were brought up catholic have many issues to resolve regarding their bodies and sex. Shame and guilt makes sexual pleasure and communication difficult. It also may impact someone's ability to undergo even a basic gynecological exam to say nothing of birth control and STD's/

There has been countless research done (from both liberal and conservative perspectives) using both personal testimony and conventional psychological and sociological methodology about the complex relationship between these issues.

You could start with Thomas C. Fox's, Sexuality and Catholicism:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0807614688/104-4091598-2875167
which would actually debunk the assertion that the church DICTATES actual sexual behavior, but it doesn't mean that there is no relationship or that religion/spirituality can have an incredible positive and/or negative affect on sexual wellbeing.

OR:

Religion and Sexual Health: Ethical, Theological, and Clinical Perspectives (Theology and Medicine, Vol 1) by Ronald M. Green
Unfortunately, I know nothing of this text

It's also been recognized as an international issue:
http://www.unwire.org/UNWire/20040310/449_13863.asp


Here is some more information:

Author
Ross, Michael W; Henry, Doug; Freeman, Anne; Caughy, Margaret; Dawson, Alvin G Jr..
E-Mail Address
Ross, Michael W.: [e-mail]
Title
Environmental influences on safer sex in young gay men: A situational presentation approach to measuring influences on sexual health. .
Source
Archives of Sexual Behavior. Vol 33(3) Jun 2004, 249-257.
Kluwer Academic Publishers, Netherlands
Abstract
(from the journal abstract) Environmental influences on sexual behavior are difficult to examine given their temporal distance from the sexual act and the cost of long-term longitudinal studies. We examined environmental influences on risky sexual behavior in young gay men using the Situational Presentation (Sitpres) methodology, where situations in which relevant environmental variables are presented as computer vignettes with the variables randomly allocated, and participants rate the likelihood of their engaging in unsafe sexual behavior. A total of 100 gay men aged between 18 and 26 years of age completed 20 Situational presentations with the outcome being the likelihood of engaging in unprotected anal intercourse. On regression analysis, 3 environmental variables significantly predicted safer sex: perceived gay/bisexual men's norms toward condom use; availability of HIV prevention messages; and what one's religion says about gay sex. Not significant were family, media, legal, and work/school attitudes to homosexuality. Demographic variables that were predictors included education, age, sexual orientation, and degree of being "out" about sexual orientation. These data suggest that environmental factors can be approximated using the Sitpres methodology, and that more proximal environmental variables... (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2004 APA, all rights reserved)

Author
Safir, Marilyn P.
E-Mail Address
Safir, Marilyn P.: [e-mail]
Title
An Israeli sex therapist considers a New View of women's sexual problems. .
Source
Women & Therapy. Vol 24(1-2) 2001, 47-52.
Haworth Press, US
Abstract
Comments on the article by L. Alperstein et al (see record 2002-12764-001) concerning the classification of female sexual problems. The author believes that by focusing on the inequalities that exist between men and women as a result of culture, ethnicity, religion, legislation, etc, the New View of Women's Sexual Problems brings to the forefront the social inequalities that may produce sexual dysfunction in women in Israel. In addition, the rights to sexual information, comprehensive sexual education and appropriate sexual health care have not been recognized in Israel. The field of sexology in Israel is also relatively young and underdeveloped. Therefore, the New View of Women's Sexual Problems' focus is extremely relevant for sexologists and sex therapists working in Israel. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2003 APA, all rights reserved)

Author
Gordon, Sol; Snyder, Craig W.
Title
Personal issues in human sexuality: A guidebook for better sexual health (2nd ed.).
Source
Needham Heights, MA, US: Allyn & Bacon. (1989). x, 389 pp.
Abstract
(from the preface) After reading a conventional book on human sexuality, one is often left unsatisfied. Although it is important to learn the latest facts and research findings, these do not often lend insight to the inherently personal issues of one's own sexual behavior. Thus, in this edition (as it was in the first), our focus is on both the personal, philosophical, and ethical issues in people's lives and the significant medical and research data. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2003 APA, all rights reserved)

Author
Nelson, James B.
Title
Chapter
The role of religion.
Source
Albee, George W (Ed); Joffe, Justin M (Ed); et al. (1988). Prevention, powerlessness, and politics: Readings on social change. (pp. 421-432). Thousand Oaks, CA, US: Sage Publications, Inc. 557 pp.
Abstract
(from the chapter) links between a Western white culture's inability to live in ecological harmony with the earth and our proneness toward self-body dissociation /// Judeo-Christian understandings of God are crucial to our own self-understandings /// submit seven deadly sins which Western religion has contributed to sexual disease, countered by seven virtues (or positive resources) which the Judeo-Christian tradition offers to sexual health /// deadly sins / spiritualist dualism / sexist or patriarchal dualism / homophobia / guilt over self-love / legalistic sexual ethics / sexless image of spirituality / privatization of sexuality /// white racism / social violence (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2003 APA, all rights reserved)

Author
Myers, Lonny.
Title
Sex researchers and sex myths: A challenge to activism.
Source
Journal of Sex Research. Vol 17(1) Feb 1981, 84-89.
Society for the Scientific Study of Sexuality, US
Abstract
Contends that organized medicine and organized religion continue to perpetuate sexual myths with impunity and that sex researchers do not hesitate to present data that contradict the conservative viewpoint, but they do not attack the inaccuracies published by medical and religious organizations. By allowing these publications to go unchallenged, it is argued that researchers run the risk of giving both the public and conservative professionals the idea that inaccurate medical and religious writings are not truly inaccurate but rather represent another equally valid view of sexual health and normalcy. (7 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2003 APA, all rights reserved)

Author
Yates, Wilson.
Title
The role of the Theological Ethical Task Force in the University of Minnesota Program in Human Sexuality.
Source
Counseling & Values. Vol 20(4) Jul 1976, 190-197.
Assn for Spiritual Ethical and Religious Values in Counseling, US
Abstract
Discusses 3 areas of cooperative work in human sexuality undertaken by participants in a Program in Human Sexuality (PHS) from the University of Minnesota Medical School; the American Lutheran Church staff; and Luther, Northwestern, and United Theological Seminaries. The endeavor took shape in the spring of 1971 and was formalized through the creation of a Theological Ethical Task Force (TETF) in the fall of 1972. Value analysis was one area of cooperative work by TETF members. Examination of the educational philosophy of the PHS uncovered basic value assumptions, such as one to the effect that each person has a right and an obligation to acquire objective knowledge about the full range of human sexual behavior. Analysis of the program's image of sexual health identified suppositions which included the notions that one should accept sexual feelings as a natural part of life and also accept responsibility for what is done with those feelings. Value contrasts and conflicts between the theoretical models used in the program (e.g., behaviorist and humanistic models) also were considered. The 2nd area of cooperation focused on seminars for helping professionals to train them to deal with sex-related issues, and the 3rd area concerned ways in which the work of the medical science and theological disciplines on human sexuality might complement and supplement each other. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2003 APA, all rights reserved)

Author
Daniluk, Judith C.
Title
The meaning and experience of female sexuality: A phenomenological analysis.
Source
Psychology of Women Quarterly. Vol 17(1) Mar 1993, 53-69.
Blackwell Publishing, United Kingdom
Abstract
Conducted a phenomenological analysis of the experiences of 10 women (aged 30-66 yrs), including the author, who met in a group format weekly for 11 wks to discuss the lived experience of their sexuality. Recordings of the sessions were transcribed, and themes were determined. The influence of medicine, religion, media, and sexual violence in constructing and confining the experience and expression of female sexuality was underscored. Structural and institutional barriers to the development of female sexual health were identified. Areas of central importance to women for experiencing their sexuality included sexual expression, reproduction, body image, and intimate relationships. Both positive and negative themes were identified, emphasizing the importance for women of assuming an active role in the construction of their own sexual paradigms. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2003 APA, all rights reserved)


That should keep you busy for a while. You can read up. I won't spoon feed you "facts" on what is ultimately a very complex issue.

[sariku]

28. Warning lights....

Um... that's not right. Where I go for medical care (Kaiser Permanente), the gyn office always asks if you are involved in an abusive relationship or have been in X number of recent years. They do this for a PURPOSE.

1. If you're currently in an abusive relationship, they WILL offer to help you.

2. If you've recently been in an abusive relationship, it CAN have an effect on your physical and mental health.

3. Prior abusive relationships CAN effect your ability to tolerate common gyn exams and they WILL take that into consideration.

But generic questions like the ones about her parents and her marriage? I don't think those are appropriate. And the church one? TOTALLY inappropriate - and the nurses response is SO out of line.

[mairceridwen]

34. actually...

parental relationships and spiritual/religious inclinations can have a HUGE impact on over all physical, mental, and sexual wellbeing.

that said, there is a right way and a wrong way to do these things and the nurse was out of line.

[sariku]

36. You have a point...

And actually, I am recalling that my gyn asked questions about my childhood as well - but obviously they were asked in better ways, because it not only did not set off alarm bells, but it was easily forgotten.

[kslib]

66. I don't have many posts

so I don't know if I should go against the grain like this, but thanks for the sanity. I work in healthcare, and I agree that it is a good trend that physicians (or, more likely, their nurses) are inquiring about a person's entire wellbeing. I also agree that this nurse needs some sensitivity/tact training. FYI, for those inclined to flame, I am an atheist. I had a nurse ask me if spirituality was important to me, and I said "no, I'm an atheist." She asked (during the course of the assessment) if I felt I had a good social support base, I said "Yes, I have good friends, and a good family." You can also always say "I'm not comfortable with that question." (S)he should then leave off. Just my $0.02

[phylny]

83. I understand your post and I think the biggest problem

was with the nurse's follow-up question, "Why not?"

In any event, as others have said, I do see the need to ask questions, but it's a shame that the nurse didn't start with, "I'm going to ask you questions to make sure we discuss everything about your help. If you have any concern about something I'm asking, please let me know" or some such opening statement so that the patient wouldn't be so taken aback.

[BonjourUSA]

30. Is your wife's doc afraid she could be Rose Mary and you Lucifer ?

[American Tragedy]

31. Sounds like appropriate starter questions for a psychiatrist, not a gyno

No MD has ever asked me anything remotely like that. No personal questions at all really. To be fair, that is probably in part because doctors notice what medications I am on and know that I am already seeing a specialist for those sorts of things.

[akwapez]

32. Yes, we live in TN, I'm sure this is much more likely here than

anywhere else. To answer some of the other questions:
This is a private doctors office.
This was a yearly checkup, no pregnancy or illness.
Also, to make clear, this was not the doctor. It turns out this was a midwife (her normal doctor was out).
This may explain as mentioned in one response that this may relate to spiritual well-being.
But, I feel as you do that this was simply out of line.

[LizW]

37. Look up the doctor

and see if he/she belongs to that creepy anti-choice OB/Gyn group.

You can search on this site: http://www.aaplog.org/

I have a friend who went to one of them, and she was very proud that her doctor would not perform any tests such as AFP and amniocentesis to reveal fetal abnormalities.

Your wife's doctor COULD have been asking those questions for an innocent reason, but I would certainly check up on it.

[mairceridwen]

45. that is an excellent resource

thanks.

[Book Lover]

53. Thank you for this link

Every fertile woman should have this resource available to her.

[Getchasome]

38. I went to a Nephrologist for a kidney

condition and he looked at my blood test results, gave me a routine exam, asked me some questions and said I needed a biopsy. Now, the condition I have happens to run in the family and it's never turned into anything serious for anyone, and not one family member had a biopsy done. Turns out there is a 1 in 1,000 chance of losing the kidney in a biopsy. Not good odds. Here's the part that made me run, not walk, out of the doctors office. I started asking detailed medical questions about the kidneys and the doctor skipped around the answers and finally let me know that he was a Christian and God would take care of all things.

The next nephrologist I went too looked at my blood work and said "there is no reason at all to have a biopsy, it's completely unnecessary." He was able to read the family history, my condition, the blood results and deduce what the situation most likely is. In other words he used the scientific method, and avoided a risky, unnecessary procedure.

Moral of the story, steer clear of overly religious doctors.

[mairceridwen]

47. holy crap

that's awful. glad you got out of the procedure

damn.

[kslib]

68. So, this is kind of similar....

but not nearly as scary. I had my dog humanely euthanized last year, and the vet sent me a sympathy card with a poem written inside about how I shouldn't be too sad because this could be my chance to find god. Then had her phone number at the bottom, as well as her pastor's (or minister's or whatever) number and urged me to call either one if I wasn't saved yet. Ugh! I was going through a lot of sadness, and that was definitely the last thing I needed.

[Starlight]

103. That's really creepy. n/t

[Spike from MN]

48. I'd switch docs. Doesn't sound right to me.

My HMO changed to a new system last year or so and the nurse told me that on every visit, the patient will be asked the same questions. None of them struck me as odd -- what medications are you on, etc. The only one that might be considered out of the ordinary was the one where they asked if anyone at home was mistreating you. The nurse explained that some people being abused are afraid to speak out and might be more likely to come forward if they are asked the question. At least that's what some studies apparently showed anyway. I wasn't offended by it at all and if it helps one abused person come forward it's worth it to me.

The only time I have been asked anything about religion was when I was admitted to a hospital. I don't even recall the question but I think it was along the lins of whether or not I had a preferred religion. I'm sure it was just so they could arrange a priest/pastor/rabbi/etc. to visit if the patient desired. I told the person taking the info that I was an atheist and she wrote that down and moved to the next question. She didn't even bat an eye and certainly didn't ask WHY I was an atheist. That would have royally pissed me off. Anyway, in my case it was probably a legit question for the reason stated above but no way in hell do I consider it appropriate for a gynocologist to ask the question. If they're asking it for "mental health" reasons or whatever, it's still inappropriate for the nurse to respond the way she did. She can write the info down and let the doctor ask the questions. That's usually the way it works.

[Bigmack]

49. "Do you go to church?"...

"Yes... Satan is my Lord."

Stops all further questions... every time!

[KitchenWitch]

107. Or

Between meetings of my local coven!

[northzax]

50. It sounds to me like the Doc is trying to expand

her/his information to cover a more holistic view of the patient. That is a good thing, but it sounds like this nurse wasn't real comfortable with it. Frankly, I will answer any question my Dr. asks me, I figure there may just be a reason for it, the more he knows about me, the better my treatment is likely to be. random facts can help, sometimes.

although I would have been tempted to reply "yes, I go to church, that's why my marriage is so bad, I think the baby may be the Minister's, how expensive is DNA testing?"

[Book Lover]

51. As many have said above,

the questions itself is not completely out of line; however, it is far more important that the patient (that is, your wife) be completely comfortable in the office. Easy for me to sit here and say this, but she should have replied that she was not comfortable answering that question and that her religious life is completely private. Office nurses can often be harried and if the nurse asked the question tersely, that *may* be a result of the daily rush. Again, though, your wife's comfort is paramount.

[ernstbass]

52. Report this crazy man

to the state medical board immediately!!!

[fishnfla]

54. Medicare guidelines require "social history" now

Most insurances follow medicare guidelines, it becomes the standard of care, offices do it for every patient so its always done (whether you are insured or not)

the history has to include personal questions regarding drug and alcohol use, sexual history, also "mood and affectation" have to be documented in the chart, is the patient alert to time, person, place, upset, sad, depressed, etc.

That having been said, I dont know about the religious questions. Perhaps there was a long-time pedophilic priest in an area church, maybe a whole generation of people stopped going to church for that reason who are afraid to talk about what happened. Not so far-fetched in some areas. Maybe the nurse asks the follow-up question to find out if this is the case.

[Coventina]

55. Don't EVEN get me started on gynecologists

I've had NOTHING but bad experiences.

When I was a teenager and a virgin I was told I had herpes, and was told to "keep my pants on". (It was a really bad yeast infection which I knew....a month or so later meds to treat those started being sold over the counter....wish I could have held out that long.)

I know, I know TMI. Sorry if I curled you hair.

I'm sure there are good gyns out there, I've just never found one.

[eissa]

58. I love mine

I've lucked out, I know. As to the questions asked, it's not unusual to have very personal questions asked by an OB/GYN. It's not the questions that would have made me uneasy, but the follow-up of "why not?" A woman does not need to be judged by anyone, least of all her doctor.

[noiretextatique]

62. totally inappropriate, weird and creepy

:puke: sounds like one of bush's "practicers of love"

[roguevalley]

63. this is unethical questioning. file a complaint. right away.

[smartvoter]

65. Find a new one. n/t

[amazona]

69. completely inappropriate

As for those who try to defend this by saying that the doctor is checking to see if the patient is "depressed," it is none of my ob/gyn's business whether or not I am depressed. In my state, and in any other state where being diagnosed or treated for depression, threatens my ability to buy private health insurance...doctors have NO business probing into my mental health unless I am explicitly seeking that kind of help or display obvious clinical symptoms.

If the woman was pregnant and had a history of post-natal depression...OK...otherwise it is completely off the wall to start snooping into her marital and religious life.

I did notice once I moved into a well-to-do area years ago that the questions about how many partners I had and other snoopy questions were dropped. Ob/gyns do not ask upper-class women if they have multiple partners. They simply quietly do the needed tests if there are symptoms in need of being tested. Otherwise they mind their own business. Which is, I think, as it should be for all women. We should be respected, not given the third degree about our life choices.

[mairceridwen]

72. then just say that

Say it's none of their business or that you would rather not discuss it or that it's not what you are there for.

It's not about checking to see if the patient is depressed, it's about overall wellbeing and yes, there are other things that affect sexual health. For some people religion and marital relations are related to their sexual health. Should doctors ignore those things?

It's not about multiple partners or church attendence, but other things affect sexual wellbeing and I see nothing wrong with inquiring about those things. There is a right way to do this and a wrong way. The third degree is not the right way, but I believe that it can be done in a non-invasive, non-confrontational, non-imposing open-minded and RESPECTFUL way.

[leftofthedial]

74. if you go to church

you have nothing to be afraid of

unless it's the "wrong" kind of church, of course.

[mairceridwen]

78. i like the church of satan reply

and then on the way out ask if you can pick through their trash for any afterbirth for an upcoming ritual

[barb162]

76. I find the questions utterly out of line

[flygal]

79. I was asked what religeon when I pg with first baby and I

was taken aback. But, I didn't have any other choice for ob/gyn and didn't want to put myself in a bad position so I answered.

[SemperEadem]

80. Call her doctor today and ask if those questions

are part of her medical record. If they are, insist that they be removed at once. I'll bet even money that her questionairre wasn't part of the medical record, but some information the nurse was collecting for a church function. Questions about going to church have nothing to do with the science of medicine and how it applies to your wife's health.

[Generator]

81. Does anybody know how to say none of your fucking business

Anymore? Don't bow down to power. (Not picking on opening poster-no I've never heard of that-but I scowl and look like don't mess with me-and dammit they don't-AS IF)

You owe them nothing. I am continually amazed most people give out their damn phone number to ToysRUS or whomever.

WHY?

None of your business. And if that fails, lie your ass off. I don't trust anyone with power over my life in anyway. They want to drug you, control you, monitor you. And that's just the ones that are on "your side."

[SemperEadem]

82. I agree.. people sometimes are their own worst enemies

when it comes to their own privacy. If I was asked "Why not?" I would have responded that it was not fit for her to know. Of course, she wouldn't have gotten past "do you go to church" with me, either.

Invasiveness such as this should not be tolerated. If depression has been indicated in her records, then that's a matter for a psychiatrist, not a gynecologist.

[partisan to truth]

84. I have to go to a doctor like that... totally Catholic-faithbased practice

(b/c of insurance) and it infuriates me!

[Sgent]

88. We don't know your wifes entire situation

But depression is certainly within an OB/GYNs scope of practice if they are giving an annual exam or dealing with a recently pregent or post childbirth patient. If you are going in for an annual exam, s/he wil aslo check for things like hypertension, heart murmors, evaluate general health status, etc.

Depression especially affects women in the childbearing or post-partum. It can be a sign of menopause, a newly devolped thyroid disorder, and a host of other conditions. Depression increases your risk of heart attack, hypertension, dementia, etc. Undiagnosed depression can lead to suicide.

Most people who have a newly diagnosed case of depression do not seek out a psychiatrist, and most antidepressents are perscribed by primary care physicians (Internal Med, Family Pract, OB/GYN). If done as part of an annual exam, a screen for depression contributing factors thereof is appropriate and recommended by ACOG. Treatment may be performed by the OB, or referred out depending on the serverity, length etc.

The fact that the nurse was impersonal and rude doesn't change the appropriateness of this process -- although it might mean that the nurse should be disciplined.

[partisan to truth]

111. think you might have accidentally replied to me...

good information though for the poster i think you intended to respond to

[NC_Nurse]

89. Seems weird to me....

I can see asking about support systems...not religion.

I've never asked anyone about stuff like that except for religous preferences related to medical care like blood transfusions (Jehovah's Witnesses don't have them).

I would find a new doc.

[__Inanna__]

91. This is too weird

I have been ordering meds online for awhile now, so tonight I needed a refill. Usually when I put in my name and password my info comes up pre-filled. Tonight it didn't. So I had to fill everything in. Then I got to the bottom and there was a new section regarding privacy issues. In reading it, I was advised that the company may release information to the govt or law enforcement officials, if asked, without my knowledge of consent.

If any of you are familiar with the latest on prescription drugs, they now want to have Drs. report every Rx written to the govt. My thoughts are maybe they are implementing some of this stuff quickly. Does anyone have thoughts on this?

[gauguin57]

94. Someone needs to ask that nurse/medical practice why they want

to know. Someone needs to make sure the nurse isn't proselytizing in the office!

I wanna know why my gyno's office needs to know whether I always wear seatbelts. What does that have to do with my genitalia?

[Spike from MN]

101. I was asked about whether or not I wear my seatbelt

during the health history question session on my first appointment with a new doc. She was very thorough and her questions pertained solely to my health and the health history of my family. The seatbelt question had to do with statistics. My doc explained all of the questions as she asked them and wearing/not wearing a seatbelt can be one of the things that affects the longevity of your life (as in whether or not you are likely to be killed in a car accident). In other words, you can be eating right and exercising right and doing everything you can to take good care of your health but if you don't wear a seatbelt that could negate some or all of the things you are doing right. FWIW, that was by far the most thorough health history I have ever been through and as it turns out, that doc was the best doc I ever had by far.

[sir_captain]

96. Is it just me or was it the nurse, not the doctor?

So can we stop shitting on doctors for just a second?

[Bigmack]

100. When my wife was badly injured...

... in a bike accident (head injury) one of the first thing I did was to tell the hospital I did NOT want any chaplain or rabbi or Santeria priest speaking with my wife was she was in rehab for her head injury. People who are vulnerable shouldn't have that shit foisted on them.

I told them she was an atheist and so was I (true in both cases). I'm glad to say both she and I made it thru some rough times with our lack of faith intirely intact.

[ReadTomPaine]

102. Have a female friend go for an exam with a tape recorder in her purse..

Then forward the recording or a digital copy if it far and wide to all interested parties (local feminist groups, college women's centers, atheist groups etc). Helps if your friend is willing to mix it up a little verbally with the nurse. Burn CDs of the audio argument (possibly with additional commentary from the above groups) and leave them with colorful labels in a stack near the office. Make the fools of them they are, and hit their practice where it hurts- their pocketbooks and professional credibility. Make sure everyone who could possibly be offended or impacted know that they seem to prefer all their clients be good little wives who go to church and will be insulting to you if you don't.

RTP

[proudbluestater]

104. No way! Wrong doctor! Change immediately! nt/

[I Love Alaska]

105. Nurse

I have been a nurse for almost two decades and I have never heard of a gyn doc or nurse asking questions about religion in an office visit.

[Tess49]

108. Your wife should have told the nurse that she is a born again pagan

I live in the bible belt and told a co-worker that. Her jaw dropped. This woman prays at lunch in the cafeteria. The first time I witnessed her doing this, I thought she was choking or something and asked her if she was okay. Creepy. The DOC involved may not be aware that his nurse is asking these kinds of questions.

[okieinpain]

109. no way dude. you're joking.

[buckettgirl]

110. that is no relevant medical information

I don't care what doctor I go to, answers to those questions are NONE OF THEIR DAMN BUSINESS!
If I went to a gynecologist, say for my yearly pap smear/pelvic exam, and they started to ask questions like that - I would refuse to answer and if they insisted, I would find a new doctor.

I agree with spirituality being used as a component of healing, in fact, I advocate complementary therapies, but that is flat out ridiculous.
I know that my marriage, my parents, and my religion have nothing to do with my uterus.

[shesemsmom]

112. In Indiana

I know they ask questions about personal relationships and try to find out if you are being abused, but the religious question nd the statement after was totally out of line. I'd report it to the DON and demand some answers.