My wife says I'm wasting time here. I'm coming around to the possibility

[bigtree]

that she's mostly right. I don't know what I really expect to happen when I get off of a hard night of work and post here. Partly to inform, partly to enlist support, activism. Whatever I expected, I'm not entirely convinced that I'm making much difference with my posts here. Look at my post count. Did I really post that many times? I guess I have to adjust my expectations and not get too discouraged when a post falls, but I am in a fit about the atmosphere of triviality that surrounds solid work by posters with serious concerns, not the least of which, my own hard bread. I want to break from posting here, but I haven't a comunity similar to the fine group here that I can relate to daily. So I'll keep at it and just be satisfied that I may have reached a few, inspired some, motivated a couple of posters . . .

I wrote a manifesto last year that has endured. Unfortunately. I want to share it once more. Some have seen this posted one too many times, some haven't. I'm compelled to share it again, and then I'll sign off for awhile and tend to my own activism before getting some much needed sleep. Thanks for reading.


While the people retain their virtue and vigilance, no administration, by any extreme of wickedness or folly, can very seriously injure the government in the short space of four years. Abraham Lincoln

by Ron Fullwood

10/14/03: Most of us watched the beginning of the mad money grab that began the day after Gore conceded and the Bush corporate presidency set up shop in the heart of the Washington business district. I'm baffled by the shortage of outrage. Maybe it's on a slow-burn; Maybe we are just waiting to vote again.

One thing is certain; If we leave this bunch in power, the call for an American revolution will mark every expression of dissent in and out of this country.

I am dumbfounded by the extent that the majority of people don't seem to care enough to involve themselves in opposing even the most pernicious actions of this administration. And then I reflect back to the stolen election. Why didn't the people take to the streets, like we did when the president pulled the nation into his false, vengeful war, and demand that the votes were counted?

Why did the people deflate when the unelected Supreme court ruled? Would we, if given the chance, elect this or any sad pack of justices that clings to power like none other in our democracy?

We must care enough to involve ourselves in every instigation of democracy which confronts us. Our government is a reflection of everything we choose to neglect and every cynical impulse we reflect. Bill Clinton once said that "cynicism is a luxury."

Those in power who are motivated by greed will show up every day to collect their share, and ours as well. Can we afford to turn away and let all of the negative influences have the floor to themselves?

We have to come to grips with our individual responsibility to vigilance. We have to show up every day to make certain the government is representing all of the people; not just the corporate few who show up every day to collect our money. They will always fill the halls of Congress with their favors, bribes, and obstruction.

As my old friend, Guy Washington used to say, "Good always leaves, but bad comes to stay."

Through our virtue and our vigilance we must continue to advocate and petition our government to work for peace- here in the United States and around the world- with our voices, with our written appeals and protests, and with our actions.

Through our virtue and our vigilance we must keep ourselves informed about those issues and concerns which we entrust to the bidding of those in Congress; and we must thoroughly involve ourselves in the process of resolving those issues and concerns in tandem with our legislators by challenging ourselves to read, watch and listen; with a respect and a desire for understanding of differing views and opinions in our deliberation and debate.

Through our virtue and our vigilance we must, in our respect for democracy, value and protect the right to vote. With our full participation in the voting process we promote respect for our nation and each other, and help ensure an equal chance for representation for all of our citizens in the deliberations of our government. Our vote is the instrument of our collective conscience and our warrant to the realization of our freedom, our liberty, and our well-being.

Through our virtue and our vigilance we must challenge our government, ourselves, and one another, to act with more mercy and compassion as we marshal our resources to aid communities; to alleviate hunger, at home and around the world.

We must challenge ourselves to provide for the health needs of all of those who fall ill or injured in this country; to reach out to other countries to assist in the halting of the effects of deadly, infectious diseases and other illnesses; to provide full support and access for those with disabilities and handicaps.

We must challenge our government to make certain that there is adequate, safe, affordable housing for all; to provide emergency aid and assistance for our country; and when needed around the world, to distribute these resources and this assistance in an equitable manner.

Through our virtue and our vigilance we must demand that our government promote and practice respect for the environment in our own lands and with respect for the sovereignty of those lands which don't belong to us. We must maintain these values as we protect the ground, water, and the air against pollution and abuse, by government, from industry, or from individuals.

We must challenge our government and ourselves to advocate and enforce these values; through the regulation of industry and of individuals; through enactment and enforcement of environmental laws; by our stewardship and expansion of those lands we recognize and designate as vital to the preservation of our ecosystem, to wildlife, and to the safety of the citizens of our communities; by the respect for and the preservation of the balance of all of nature and its right to coexist with humanity without risk of devastation, destruction, or disruption, or neglect.

Through our virtue and our vigilance we must foster and nurture our respect for each other; in the sharing of our burdens; in our willingness to make reasonable compromises; in our awareness and responsiveness to the needs and concerns of the least fortunate among us.

We must foster and nurture our respect for each other in the acceptance and appreciation of our differences- not merely to tolerate them- but to explore, celebrate and learn from our different backgrounds, our different abilities, our diverse heritages and nationalities, and our many different religions and beliefs.

Through our virtue and our vigilance we must challenge our government, and ourselves, to be humble; in our words and in our actions; in our acceptance of our mistakes; to admit when we act wrongfully as nations and individuals; to bend ourselves to judgement and lend our support to justice; and to accept our limitations and to accept help when offered.

Through our virtue and our vigilance we must instill in our lives and encourage in the acts of our government, a faithfulness to the values of honesty, integrity, and justice.

We must challenge and demand from our government, a respect for the privacy of individuals; the rights of individuals to due process of law; protection from unlawful or unreasonable surveillance and searches; protection from any actions by governments, groups, or individuals to suppress protest, dissent or disagreement.

We must challenge and demand from our government, protection from unlawful or unreasonable arrest, detention, separation or deportation; and the rights of individuals to be informed and to inform others of actions by the government or its agents to restrict, degrade, or eviscerate their life, liberty, safety, or freedom.

Through our virtue and our vigilance we expect and demand protection by our government from injury, abuse, exploitation, corruption, or enslavement.

We demand protection of our natural resources from theft, abuse, or neglect, as well as, insurance against the unforseen, sometimes destructive force of nature.

We demand protection and defense against workplace abuse, accident, or neglect; defense against those who would do us harm, either as individuals or as a nation; and protection from the unreasonable and unlawful excesses and tyrannies of the majorities, in our government and wherever they threaten.

At Edwardsville, Illinois, on September 11, 1858, President Abraham Lincoln said, "What constitutes the bulwark of our own liberty and independence is not our frowning battlements, our bristling seacoast, the guns of our war steamers, or the strength of our gallant and disciplined army. These are not the reliance against the resumption of tyranny in our fair land. All of them may be turned against our liberties without making us stronger or weaker for the struggle."

"Our reliance is in the love of liberty, which God has planted in our bosoms. Our defense is the preservation of the spirit, which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands everywhere." Destroy this spirit and you have planted the seeds of despotism at your down doors."

"Familiarize yourselves with the chains of bondage," Lincoln warned, and you prepare your own limbs to wear them. Accustomed to trample on the rights of others, you have lost the genius of your own independence and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises among you."

This government and this administration have become accustomed to trampling, and bondage. And we have allowed them to skirt accountability for their sly justifications for their attacks on our civil liberties; demagogic appeals to patriotism and to our nationalism; the deliberate inflaming, and careful stoking of the sparks of fear that flashed from the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center; and the mortgaging of ours and our children's future toil and tribute to the subsidizing of both of the Bush president's bloody and costly wars of opportunity.

We are not any safer for our invasion of the sovereign nation of Iraq. In our occupation, we contradict the most basic of our nation's values of freedom, liberty, and democracy. With our theft of the industry and resources of Iraq, our country has joined the long line of oppressors and brutal opportunists who have sought to dominate this region for greed and power.

History will wonder at our arrogance, and at our inability to restrain our military and its agents from pursuing ambitions far outside of the mandate of our constitution or conscience. We can scarcely hope to repair the injustice and the pain which our great and powerful nation has caused, around the world and here at home; through our greed, with our zeal, and by our neglect.

But we must try.

Here's to the next-generation of patriots! Here's to the new defenders of liberty, freedom, and democracy! Here's to the end of the reign of this two-percent confederation of corporate interests.

[cheezus]

1. it's entertainment

somepeople watch sportscenter and then post on football message boards. Your hobby just hapens to actually matter to something.

[Bridget Burke]

2. What would she prefer you do with your time?

Are you neglecting your job & family?

(Somehow, I doubt that....)

[okieinpain]

3. yeah, my wife says the same thing, then she goes and does

what she wants to do. your wife is probably concerned that you're talking to some hot sexy babe.

[Goldmund]

9. Hey, hot sexy babes are the reason I come to DU!

[Biased Liberal Media]

10. I wish my husband would get involved politically

he's a liberal too but it doesn't really strike his fancy. Is it something your wife would be interested in? (This is to the OP)

[K-W]

4. This is a discussion forum, if you expected more than discussion

I think your expectations are the problem.

[neebob]

33. I agree

Yakkin' away on the net isn't likely to change the world or even change your life. It sounds like you're in need of something that you're not getting, and maybe this isn't the place to find it. This is just a place to share information. Your wife is clearly trying to tell you something, and it isn't necessarily just that you're spending too much time here. :)

[Liberty Belle]

5. Stress relief

Best case: Brainstorming here can lead to political reform.

Worst case: venting your frustrations here relieves stress. So we're good for your health!

[Straight Shooter]

6. I take what I get here and pass it around

We never know what a difference we make, but we do know that if we do nothing at all, we will never make a difference.

Just call Democrats the "party of George Bailey" and Republicans the "party of Mr. Potter."

I happen to like your posts, bigtree, and click on them when I see them. Just because I don't always post in response doesn't mean I'm not evaluating and absorbing the message.

:hi:

edit I type too fast

[deansyawp]

7. Get a Blog

Not to be glib, and yes, what the world needs now is another liberal blogger like we all need a hole in the head, but that's the difference between DU and running a blog, as I understand it (and yes, I am new here but have been lurking for some time) -- DU is more of a discussion forum, where with a blog you can direct traffic more. Now granted, getting traffic is a non-trivial issue, as they say, but if you have something worth saying, and it sure looks like you do, then they will come.

Alternatively, if starting your own blog seems too daunting, post regularly on the dKos diaries. If you regularly have interesting, well thought out, and original things to say, you will be noticed and "recommended."

Just some humble thoughts from a humble newbie ...

[mikh]

8. Baffled and dumbfounded...

...and confused.
Please excuse a newbie for butting in, but your baffled, confused and dumbfounded sentiments are interesting.
You write; "We can scarcely hope to repair the injustice and the pain which our great and powerful nation has caused, around the world and here at home; through our greed, with our zeal, and by our neglect."
Really?
Your angst has me baffled, dumbfounded and confused.
It must be the brain chilling over-use of the word "progressive" in so much of our literature.
Surely we have to face facts. The clash of civilisations and values is underway again. Our fathers faced up to it and stamped greatness on their generation. We have lost their ideals.
You close with a toast to the next generation of patriots. I toast them too, but somehow I think they won't look back on us with much respect uneless we face up to the present.

[blm]

11. Whose values?

The only value Bush thugs are concerned with is the value of oil, water and other earth's resources that they are looking to control. Control the resources people need in their every day life and you control the people and profit off their needs.

[sangh0]

15. The TheoCon's values vs the Progressive's values

.

[mikh]

35. Progressive Theocons ?

"Theocons" is rather nice, and certainly clear and descriptive, and pretty specific and appropriate. A bit like the word Eurabia, for the Islamic enclave in Western Europe. But "progressive"?
I hope this question is not censored, but shouldn't the adjective "progressive" be qualified?
It's not really clear to many people including myself, and this is a real problem... let me be a devil's advocate here; who is more progressive... Kerry or Nader?
We voters and politically active people have problems with communication, We know what we want to say! and we want to be understood! ...and I say we (meaning political activists here in the Antipodes, and in the USA). We both rely on the word progressive, and use it as a mantra, over and over, but what does it really mean ?
Is seems to be an insiders word only...I wonder if we need to re-think a little? ...

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Minstrel Boy]

24. "The clash of civilisations and values is underway"

It's barbarism, set upon itself, and militant corporatism masquerading as morality.

"The clash of civilizations" are just buzz words, buzzing 'round the latest strange fruit.

[mikh]

25. The red pill...

Is the heralded "clash of civilisations underway"?
Maybe not - although I think it definitely is, and war has been declared. If, however, as you say "...It's barbarism, set upon itself, and militant corporatism masquerading as morality." then I wonder where you think Kerry stood in that particular argument?
Surely not on the side of "militant corporatism"?

[shrike]

12. I come here for news and information

as well as a place to vent.

[MsAnthropy]

13. Thanks for re-posting, I hadn't seen this before

This is beautifully eloquent and quite moving. You have quite a gift for writing. Your idealism is admirable, but I have a feeling we're all not feeling quite so idealistic since we are a powerless minority now--they have all the marbles and don't intend to give any of them up. These are honorable sentiments, though, and I'm glad you shared them.

[saracat]

14. I think a lot of good have been done as a result of posters such as

yourself! It is very hard to measure the influence of a Board such as this but the caliber of people contributing is an indicator group .
Is Elizabeth Edwards wasting her time ? Or Chris Heinz ?Or Bev Harris? As a group we have influenced both legislation and brought to the forefront issues that might have been ignored. We have converted people who might otherwise remained conservative. Witness the amount of Republicans we have on this Board! I have at least two new Precinct Committee people as a result of Democratic Underground. I know a lot of Kerry volunteers were generated from here as well. Keep your chin up.We will prevail and Du is a worthwhile effort!

[mom-mad-about-bush]

16. Why don't you start your own blog????

If you have this much to say....why don't you consider starting your own blog. I think it is a pretty simple thing to do, and then all of your writings would be kept for all to see. You could still come on DU, but when you do you could also give the link to your blog. Just a thought. Maybe some day you would have enough material to publish.

[crispini]

18. Mmm, whether or not you are wasting your time here,

depends on what you do here.

I use the State forums to network with other activists to plan things do to IRL.
I get ideas for actions and organizations from some of the various forums.
And, yes, I do a certain amount of just reading and loafing around.

IMO this place is like half of a feedback loop. I do some stuff in the real world - report back here, get ideas - go back out into the real world. Your local club, party, or other organization, IMHO, *is* more important than cyber-activism, and if posting on this board is keeping you from getting out into the real world and making it happen on a local level, them IMO, yes, it's a waste of time. (Now, before the flames start, there are many people on here who can ONLY do cyber-activism, for many different reasons, and I'm not ragging on them.)

Edited to add: Good editorial, BTW....

[joanski01]

19. Thanks for the repost. I hadn't seen

this before. Maybe you should indulge in some shameless "kicking" of your posts to the top. There are so many posters here that the threads sink rapidly. People who post threads should hang around for awhile to respond to the responders.

[cidliz2004]

20. I understand where you are both coming from

I come here and now after this farce of an election I wonder what is the point. My husband (who is totally non political but doesn't like Bush) and my son who thinks that Bush, Kerry and many others
are all in this together) didn't think it really mattered who won and that we are all like little chess pieces or checkers. I at least fought vailiently against what my son thought, my husband wouldn't even engage. Here I sit, they both were right in a way. My husband knew that Bush was going to win and my son knew that the citizens of this great(?) country would do nothing if this election was stolen or shown to be a sham and the rest of the citizens would help elect Bush, and he knew that Kerry would roll over and play dead. The future President who never even said even BOO! The silence in deafening.

What is the point of expending the energy to fight for something that I am really beginning to believe - doesn't exist. I am stuck.
Here I find people that care and speak of things I once believed and would still like to believe.

My son and I were arguing once and he said that whoever won, it wouldn't really matter. That our fates were pretty much sealed. So why bother getting all worked up about the election? It was a farce.
I replied that Jesus must have known his fate - to be crucified on the cross - yet he became angry and upturned the money table at the temple. He cared even though he knew his fate. THAT is the only thing that keeps me walking forward and holding onto the slightest of threads, that we can somehow make a difference....someday.

[bigtree]

21. holding onto the slightest of threads

thanks for your activism and concern.

[cidliz2004]

22. THANK YOU for your beautiful post

[mikh]

30. that we can somehow make a difference

Excuse me butting in, but as an out of town newbie I've stumbled across all you very interesting people!
Dare I say it, but from this southern hemisphere perspective the words "making a difference" in your post have real resonance. I speak internationally of course.
I have Dutch family members who have been knocked over backwards to realise that terror, intolerance and hate are forces to be reckoned with - even in their "progressive" (I hate that word!) ultra-tolerant community. (You may have read of the recent assassinations in Holland of Pim Fortuin and Theo van Gogh by political extemists).
In this respect, I think "making a difference" involves standing up to that hate - as our parents did in 1939/42, and asserting our values of free speech and tolerance.
Those of us outside the USA look to you for an assertion of that principle.

[w4rma]

23. Become a leader within your local Democratic Party.

Use the knowledge you've gained from here to help you. And remember to stay grounded in both reality and the fake reality created by BushCo and big media that most folks believe.

[Skittles]

26. you're with your own kind here, bigtree

that's cathartic in itself. WOuld you like for me to kick Mrs. Bigtree's ass?

[Piperay]

27. I know I spend a lot of time here

and I guess I could use it for cleaning the house etc. instead but I feel that since I am saving my sanity by time spent here, it is very well spent time. :-)

[lectrobyte]

28. Too much of anything could be a bad thing.

If you are watching TV six hours a day, that's bad, if your entire leiusre activity is hitting DU, then that's bad, too. Balance. I work in a very republican atmosphere, and this place helps me de-stress, so is it a waste of time? Perhaps, but not all time is meant to be efficiently used. There are worse vices to have.

[YNGW]

29. Set a time limit.

It's easy to get on-line and before you know it 2-3-4 hours have passed. Give yourself maybe 30-45 minutes a day here and then spend time with your family. In the final analysis, they're more important anyway.

[kentuck]

31. Are you looking for a little pearl of wisdom amongst the swine ??

:)

[bigtree]

37. oink!

[Stinky The Clown]

32. Go hug your wife

She loves you. Enjoy that. Leave here for a while and you'll get sane again.

My wife and I both post here. We work from home and have our offices next door to each other. We can yell to each other and be heard. But we both enjoy posting and do it instead of watching TV. We've even answered each others posts.

Maybe we need a vacation, too!

[Chicago Democrat]

34. How can the most important thing in the world be a waste of time?

We make stuff happen.. like the recount...we vet the truth...We ARE VERY IMPORTANT AND being WATCHED because they are afraid of the truth because the TRUTH ALWAYS COMES OUT..



even after millions die.
especially after millions die

[leesa]

36. I'm curious as to what she thinks would NOT be a waste of time.

Shopping? Disneyland? endless sports? Most Americasn do absolutely nothing of significance or value with their free time. INCLUDING entertaining your, probably, overindulged kids.