I think the opposition to Evolution may have a racist basis to it.

[KlatooBNikto]

Long time ago, when I used to live in Alabama, I have heard many people say that Black people were innately inferior and this is the way God intended them to be. They were without intelligence and were the equivalent of beasts of burden and nothing else.The same attitude, of course, was also prevalent in Apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia.
To me the co9nnection with the attitude towars Evolution comes from the fact that if all of us were descended from the lower forms of life
including apes, the joke is now on the racists among us to prove that they are superior to black people. This may very well explain the very strong opposition to Evolution among the Fundamentalist Christians.

[billyoc]

1. Of course, that's a big part of it.

With the discovery of the Mitochondrial Eve a few years ago, pinpointing the precise SPOT in Africa where all of humankind started, the Christian Falangists went in to CONVULSIONS with a resurgence of creationism. It hurts them that much to know that we were all black at one time. :shrug:

[Ediacara]

8. We weren't all necisarily black

The "black racial morphotype" probably hasn't been held constant over the last 100,000 years, and like all other "racial morphotypes" has presumably evolved over time to its present state.

With tons of mixed-race marriages too.

[Maple]

2. Well abortion certainly does

they don't mind bombing brown ones, or pregnant brown women.

[Silverhair]

12. Aren't Bosnians white? They don't mind the color they bomb.

And Germans are definately white.

[Maple]

19. Well right wingers

didn't agree with bombing Serbs. Huge uproar about it. They wanted Christians to prevail over Muslims even then.

When everyone is white...you go with the religion.

And Germany was over half a century ago. When abortion was illegal in most places anyway.

In any case, lots of westerners, in the US and even the royal family in the UK...thought the Germans were right, and helped them.

[enough]

3. Reminds me of the Christian Fundamentalist I talked to

several years ago who said:

"YOU may be descended from the apes, but I"M NOT."

[Francesca]

4. seems overly simplistic

there is a wide range of ideologies within what everyone calls the Christian right (some more reasonable than others) and don't forget "fundies" come in all races..

[KlatooBNikto]

6. The strong feelings on the part of people who want to replace

the teaching of Evolution with they call creationism or Intelligent Design can only be understood if we took into account the strong racial component, I believe.That may not be the only reason but the vehemence with which Evolution is fought suggests this racist thinking to me.

[Francesca]

10. I think we are confusing white supremacists with born again

Christians here.... I am a little stunned and trust me I have been furious with the religious right for a long time but seriously you say

"The strong feelings on the part of people who want to replace
the teaching of Evolution with they call creationism or Intelligent Design can only be understood if we took into account the strong racial component"

what about the fact that the bible which is there raison d'etre is the source of their rabid defense of evolution... I think we are making huge and illogical jumps by equating all creationists to racists...

[Maple]

17. I'd say they're very connected

white supremicists and bible thumpers.

Creationism means they were specially created...they didn't come from any 'black Africans'. They were made instead 'in God's image'

What does that sound like?

The Bible is a convenient excuse. It's been used to justify anything they want. Slavery, women being second class, capitalism...war for goodness sakes! When Jesus said precisely the opposite.

It's also now being used to justify a racial superiority belief, and all the practices they want.

[Francesca]

21. Listen the bible is an excuse for all kinds of things

but for every lunatic who uses it that way there are at least a dozen simple minded and well meaning people that are not the monsters everyone is so intent on believing them to be... I will stop posting for tonight as I am sure I am pissing everyone off here.. I know we all want someone to blame and it would appear you have all found a scapegoat..

[Maple]

25. Simple discussion

And simple well meaning people believe and repeat lots of things, without ever knowing the motives of those behind it.

[KlatooBNikto]

23. Occam's Razor says: When you have several theories, the

simplest is likely to be the true one.

[Francesca]

26. when I used the word simple I was using it in a kind way

[Ediacara]

5. Food for thought

Some supposedly enlightened Christians claim that "atheistic" evolution is responsible for racism.

And not just modern racism, but racism for the entire history of the human species (just the last 10,000 years).

They claim that since evolution posits (it actually doesn't posit this...) that the better evolve from the worse, that it gives people an excuse to be racists and eugenicists. This same straw-man has been abused by social Darwinism, and Fascism, and of course, eugenicists.

This is simply false though, since all races of humans are the same species, and they have all been interbreeding with other races since, well, the dawn of races.

You may be right though.... a common theme among the anti-evolution and eugenics crowd at the beginning of the 20th century claimed that the different races of humans were different species. This is obviously not true, but may have been clung to because they couldn't bare the thought of having a common ancestry with "lesser people."

[Cleita]

7. Without a doubt.

When I was bartending, I was also taking a class in anthropology at the local community college. This was in the early seventies and there was a rennaissance of sorts with the Leakey family and their discoveries pointing to humanity coming out of Africa. I was talking about this with a customer when another fellow down the bar, who was from Mississippi, had a hissy fit. There was no way he said that he was descended from Africans.

I mean he was red faced about it. The reaction was so unexpected that the other customers and I were at a loss for words. It was actually a violent and scary reaction that he had. He fortunately left. The next time I saw him he was his normal self but I never forgot it.

[KlatooBNikto]

11. The truth comes to us from unexpected sources.

[Francesca]

13. your point is that people are racist but was this man

a fundamentalist christian... since this is the link the thread is attempting to make... I wonder what the anecdote you just relayed has to do with the theory. Forgive my tone I am in a bad mood........and feeling argumentative.. but seriously

[Cleita]

28. Oh, he was even though he drank (a no no for a lot of fundies).

He wasn't a bad guy and pleasant most of the time. One of the other bartenders was a black guy and they seemed to get along all right, but to suggest he could be descended from Africans sent him over the top. So I think he believed in a literal interpretation of Genesis, which indicates fundamentalism, because he made some reference to Africans being descended from Ham in the Bible when he had his outburst.

Anyway, since this board still allows freedom of speech, I am sorry if you are in a bad mood so please take it out on some freepers not me. I come here to be around like minds, not to defend myself about everything.

[Silverhair]

9. You are wrong. It is because evolution contradicts a literal

interpretation of the first eleven chapers of Genesis. In fact, a few months ago I was in a conversation with a fundamentalist over evolution. He was anti-evolution, and he is a black preacher.

[KlatooBNikto]

16. While your black preacher friend may very well base his opposition to

Evolution on a literal interpretation of the Bible, his white colleagues may not have such limitations or reservations.In South Africa for example, the Bible was not merely used to justify Apartheid it was also a basis for the justification of slavery.Given the dominance of the White Apartheid Regime I would be willing to bet you could have found many black preachers willing to justify Apartheid and Slavery too.

[Silverhair]

31. I was raised Pentacostal. The church I grew up in was mixed races.

Belive me. They oppose evolution because of the first eleven chapters. I know them from the inside. You are reading race into something that isn't racial.

Edit: Typo

[onebox30]

14. Also, remember that homo sapien first appeared in Africa.

I believe that the consensus amongst anthropologists is that it occurred 5-7 million years ago. That would suggest that the first humans were Africans, which is a little unnerving for many white fundies.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

15. But...but...Adam & Eve were white. God's white.

Of course, the fear of evolution rests in IGNORANCE, RACISM, and BIGOTRY. It's been this way since Darwin was breathing oxygen.

Evolution is completely contrary to the Aristotelian notion of "Scala Naturae," which has been adopted heavily by Xtianity. I've even heard Xtian nutball preachers go so far as to say that "the love or consideration of lower organisms" is tantamount to paganism.

JB

[Francesca]

18. seriously I don't know a single born again

who ever believed adam and eve where white....they almost all believe they were black/arabic...

[Maple]

22. Then you must know some

very strange born-agains. :D

Even the drawings show them as lily white...just like Jesus. :eyes:

[Francesca]

30. Again I am betting you don't actually have a personal relationship with

a Christian and have not seen many bibles/religious books etc... I have seen a crap load in my life and seen Jesus pictured and depicted in every way imaginable... I am going to go out on a limb and guess your from a Red State where theres a larger percentage of racist/backward conservatives

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

27. Pick up any pre-1980s illustrated King James Bible for disconfirming evide

Maybe you're talking to "Blue State" born agains, because the one's down here in the Red States (NC) are practically ALL closet (or open) racists. Not many integrated churches down here...

JB

[Francesca]

32. This is true I am talking about blue state born agains

[flyingfysh]

20. who are blacks most closely related to?

According to DNA analysis, African blacks are actually most closely related to European whites (!!). The difference in skin color is due to adapting to a different latitude. It takes any group about 10,000 years to adapt to the shade of pigmentation most appropriate to that latitude.

In spite of the similar appearances, the groups which are farthest apart are African blacks and Australian aborigines.

Scientists now believe that Neanderthals had lived in Europe, which was later invaded by modern Homo Sapiens. Since Neanderthals had been in Europe a long time, they were probably "white" (from adaptation to the latitude)! And the Homo Sapiens were recent migrants from Africa (by way of Central Asia), and so were probably still dark-skinned.

[legally blonde]

24. I agree

I think that quite a few white Americans are under the impression that they are the "superior" race and don't want to be associated with Black people or Africa.
Also, there is quite a lot of misconception (even among well-educated people) of what the theory of evolution is and how it operates. It's not an easy concept to understand, and simplifying it down to "people came from monkeys" isn't even close to an accurate interpretation of what evolution means. The theory of evolution states that humans and other apes had a common ancestor but different species evolved along different lines. There are many mechanisms acting on evolution, such as natural selection, genetics, sexual selection, etc.
On a side note, a good friend of mine (who was raised Southern Baptist) once told me that she thought evolution was true, just not the part about people coming from apes. Did I mention she's a teacher with a masters in special education?

[KlatooBNikto]

29. For a long time I could not explain the vehemence with which Evolution

has been fought in our schools or churches.I now realize that racism has seeped so thoroughly into our consciousness, the taint of being black or being seen as descended from blacks is enough to send a shiver among most racist Americans.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. If you're a Biblical literalist, everyone's descended from Noah, his wife,

... and his 3 daughters-in-law (unless God's allowed to create a few extra people after the flood). So you'd think the variation came from the daughters-in-law; but their children either had to marry their own siblings (always frowned on), or their cousins - which would mix up any genes again, you'd think. Or maybe God did some extra genetic engineering.

The usual justification for racism pulled from the Bible is the wierd story of when Ham (Canaan's father) saw his father Noah drunk and naked, and told his brothers. For this heinous crime, Noah said:

And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

which, to some fundamentalists, justified enslavery of anyone they decided was descended from Canaan. They usually picked on Africans.