Help needed with RW Christian Talk radio host

[Prodigal Son]

Tried to respond to an asinine article in my local paper.
Plz help me out and respond to this guy?

-Prodigal Son
http://panhandletruthsquad.blogspot.com/
___________________________________________________

Mr. Radio Preacher,
We read your column in Today's Amarillo Globe News.

You state, "We were attacked by terrorists. President Bush responded with force, declaring that we would take it to the supporters of terrorism" . . .

The truth is that Iraq did not attack us on 9-11.

Also, Bush's reason's for going to war in Iraq was that it was an immediate threat, and there is no evidence that Saddam supported Al Queda.

You are lying when you say different

Is lying to the public in our local paper a Christian value? Who lacks perspective and honesty here?

I look forward to hearing your correction on your Radio Show

-Panhandle Truth Squad
(We are also Christian. Please see Beatitudes about peacemakers.)

PS: Any readers want to join us and let 'em know that lying is a sin?
[e-mail]
__________________________________________________________
RESPONSE:

We were indeed attacked by terrorists. President Bush did not lie. Neither did I. First of all, the President acted on the intelligence that he was given. Almost everyone, including the U.N. and the French, and most of the anti-war liberals in this country believed that Iraq had WMD and that Saddam was fully intent on continuing to build his strength. Past history with him indicated that he was a threat to us. He was unquestionably a sponsor of terrorism. To act on that intelligence, especially after Saddam's rebellion against 17 U.N. resolutions warning him of consequences if he didn't cooperate, is not a lie. If the intelligence is faulty, that doesn't make the President a liar to act on it.
Obviously, you don't know what a lie is. A lie is "deliberate deception". To believe something is a certain way and act accordingly may be acting on a lie someone else told, but it doesn't make you a liar to have acted in good faith and full confidence that you were being truthfully informed. If you are really a "truth squad", perhaps you should learn what a lie is. You call me a liar for stating that the President said he would take the war to the terrorists before they could bring it to us. He did say that. That's what I said he said. And, you call that a lie. I didn't say Iraq attacked us. Read my article again and you will find quite the contrary. I mentioned others that DID NOT attack us, but that we attacked. President Bush did not say Iraq attacked us.
Clearly, you aren't interested in truth. Apparently, you are interested in promoting your liberal agenda and promoting hatred of George W. Bush. Nothing he could do (short of resignation) would please you folks. Had he not attacked Iraq, and if they had attacked us, you would criticize him for sitting around while they built up their arsenal and killed our citizens. You "truth-proclaimers" would have been vicious in your attacks on him for not recognizing the looming and growing threat of Iraq.
How much do you really know about Christian virtues? I suspect that you are also on the side of removing the Ten Commandments from public places, and likely on the side of pro-abortion. And, if that is so, I will look forward to your next sermon to me on Christian virtues. It should be interesting.
I will read your e-mail on my radio program tomorrow morning.
Ricky Pfeil
[e-mail]

[shaolinmonkey]

1. Paul Wolfowitz has stated publicly that WMDs were a

beaurocratic reason (or something to that effect). Basically, they knew people would buy it. You could also point to Joe Wilson debunking the uranium story and the UN Inspectors' report saying that they found no weapons. There was equal evidence against the WMD claims, but that was all ignored by the administration and the media.

[donkeyotay]

2. It's a waste of time, but what the hell

<<Almost everyone, including the U.N. and the French, and most of the anti-war liberals in this country believed that Iraq had WMD...If the intelligence is faulty, that doesn't make the President a liar to act on it.>>

No, the reason why many people were anti-war is because george NEVER MADE THE CASE for war. (Remember that rhetoric?) When it looked like he might be stopped, he lied for his war. He sent the highly-credible Powell to lie to the UN. He stopped the UN from doing its work (which hindsight shows us was working), and he and the neocons in his administration LIED to the congress and the American people. They were not mislead by intelligence, they created the misleading intelligence.

He is right about one thing. They only thing that would satisfy me is the impeachment of the president.

[jobycom]

7. I so disagree with you on that

Not on any of your evidence, it's all true and well presented.

But I would not be satisfied with Bush's impeachment. As long as that filthy murdering dog is out of jail, America is dead. Only Bush's imprisonment will begin to satisfy me.

[donkeyotay]

8. Thanks for that clarification. I stand corrected. n/t

;)

[sangh0]

3. Calling Saddam a "supporter of terrorism" is a lie

refuted by the commission bush* himself appointed, which said that Saddam was not sponsoring, funding, supporting, or working with terrorists.

Another lie is this authors claim that "You "truth-proclaimers" would have been vicious in your attacks on him for not recognizing the looming and growing threat of Iraq."

In the article he wrote, the attack was meant to respond to a "supporter of terrorism" who "possessed WMD's". To speak of Saddam as a "gathering threat" states that the threat was in the future, whereas the previous argument was that Saddam was a CURRENT threat. Us "truth-proclaimers" see nothing Christian about tossing principles aside in favor of a more politically expedient argument. We would find you more credible if the author had not changed his tune in the middle of his performance.

[gWbush is Mabus]

4. everyone believed they had WMDs b/c the OSP manufactured eveidence

[jobycom]

5. Bush himself admitted he lied, in an indirect way

First of all, France, along with Germany and Russia, said that they couln't prove there were WMDs, which is why they refused to support the invasion. They saw all the evidence Bush had, and they said it wasn't conclusive.

Second, there was a ton of evidence that there were no weapons. The government had informants telling them there were no weapons. Check out the DU archives if they go that far back, you will see Colin Powell's presentation picked apart lie by lie. The evidence was there, Bush knew the evidence, Bush ignored the evidence and used outdated, discredited intelligence that he knew was false to convince the American people to support the war. That makes it a lie. Bush was going to war, and the evidence was just his attempt to get his way, not his justification for doing it.

Third, Bush admitted he lied when he said he would invade again even knowing what he knows now. He knows there were no WMDs, he knows there was no program to develop them, he knows Iraq was not connected to 9-11 or to Bin Laden, and yet he would still do it again. Which means, none of those reasons was the real reason he went. He has yet to explain the reason he murdered 100,000 innocent people.

I wouldn't bother with your preacher friend, though. He's a Christian, and sadly that means liar and baby-killer. He's the exact reason I'm an atheist. If there was a god, people like him wouldn't be allowed to exist.

[Fovea]

6. Dear Rev. How much do you really know about Christian virtues?

1. Praying on TV for more money is not a Christian virtue.

2. I am pro-choice. You are pro death penalty aren't you Rev?
You love the fetus, hate the child.

3. How much do you know about the founding fathers?
Can you give me a 25 words or less explanation of Deism?
.... Anyone.... Buhler?

4. That whole turn the other cheek thing... does it not apply to Brown people?

I am not a Christian, and I realize that you aren't one either.

[gerrilea]

9. I sent an email and here's the reply, I include my reply to the reply...

Dear Sir:


Thank you for your prompt response to my email...

I do not consider this a game...and to assume that I am "not open to correction" is absurd...I would be the first to admit that I have made a mistake... I find people like yourself twisting said Bible to fit their current convictions...and/or political ambitions...frightening to say the least.

As having gone to a Jesuit College...Canisius College here in Buffalo, NY...I took many classes on the Bible and bible study...the historical Bible and the facts in the Bible are very simply summed up as this...A history book of the Jewish People and their relationship with their God.

Father Corneen made us understand the process by which "the books" included in the Bible became...as being inspired by God not written by God...

My only preconceived notion is this...If you do not hold God in your heart...for the heart is the only temple approved by God...you will never find him in a book written by man...for man...to control man...

Please understand I take my faith in God very seriously and I do not wear it on my sleeve...I know in these very turbulent times we all need something to believe in and have faith in...but...that does not give any man the right to say they "know" what God thinks...because the bible says so...that's blasphemy...

And I also understand that we could discuss this for years...quoting Bible verses back and forth to support our own views of the world...as you did by mis-quoting Romans 13: 1-6....if you read a bit further...Romans 13: 8-10 ..."...he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law..." Oh and Romans 13: 9 reiterates that part about "thou shall not kill"...and to love thy neighbor as thyself...but I have no desires to argue...or disagree with you...on the books and verses of the Bible...

The only item in the Bible verbatim from God is the 10 Commandments...and if you believe that Jesus is the Son of God and therefore God...then the prayer "The Our Father" can be included as verbatim...everything else is hearsay...words and accounts of events written by man...not God...

Please check the record on this...unfortunately...I know I am correct here...

The fundamentalists and conservative coalition movement has for years been equating "The Bible" with God...and from my perspective and understanding of the 10 Commandments...that is idolatry...

You equate God with the Bible...The Bible is God...

When a man justifies his killing of innocent people as acceptable to God...then that man is not of God...and I again pray for your soul...you are being used and lied to...

And G.Bush had D.Cheney hand picked the intelligence reports he wanted to justify a war with Iraq...I hope you will ask God for forgiveness when these facts are brought into the light of day...

The truth for the Iraq was is simple...we need oil...and for the record...do a google search on "Peak Oil"...the facts are there...the world's oil supplies are going down and no matter how much people want to believe the "spin", we went to war for oil...not to avenge evil doers...

You shall know a man by his deeds...and so far...G. Bush's deeds are not good...or moral...or Godly...

Sincerely,
Gerri L Bunnell



----- Original Message -----
From: KJRT
To: Gerri L Bunnell
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: "Christians" like yourself is an insult to God!


You request correction, but for some reason, I perceive you to be a person that is not open to correction, but for the record, the Bible says in Romans 13:1-6 that governmental authorities are ordained by God and bear not the sword in vain. They are to execute wrath upon evil doers. As individuals, we are not authorized by God or government to take matters into our own hands. We are to turn the other cheek. But, people who commit capital crimes are to have capital punishment administered to them by the governmental authorities. There are numerous other references, one of which is Genesis 9:6. Anyway, I think you have your preconceived ideas and are not really interested in what the Bible actually teaches. Evidently, there is a group of you that e-mailed each other about my article and my response to the first individual that wrote me. I guess you all are having fun. Have a nice day.

Ricky Pfeil
----- Original Message -----
From: Gerri L Bunnell
To: [e-mail]
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 10:53 AM
Subject: "Christians" like yourself is an insult to God!


You are a "pawn" of the anti-christ and might I go further and quote Malachi 2:2 "If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart...I will even send a curse upon you and I will curse your blessings..."

and Malachi 3:18 "then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not."

I state for the record that you serve Bush in your statements and not God...

And I shall bear witness against thee before God!

Pretty simple..."Thou shall not kill"...there are no exceptions...that I'm aware of...was there a revised edition of the 10 Commandments?

Where "thou shall not kill"...was changed to..."with the exception of your government"...If so...please correct me...

May God have mercy on your soul for allowing yourself to be mislead so easily...YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN THE TRUE WORD OF GOD...

Gerri L Bunnell

[Bluerthanblue]

10. head-banging but......

not only did God say 'thou shalt not kill" (and the word used in the ot is the same word for execute, murder, kill without pre-planning)

God HIMSELF chose not to execute the punishment of DEATH on Cain, when he slew Abel, but granted him clemency- as did Jesus to the woman caught in the act of adultery- Moses killed an egyptian, and was still 'chosen' by God- King David, (a man after God's own heart) so it is 'claimed'- committed adultery, ordered the murder of a loyal soldier in an attempt to 'hide' the adultery, and looked the other way when one of his sons raped his daughter- (actually David SENT Tamar into BE raped) then, another brother avenged the rape of Tamar by killing the rapist brother- ..... 'a man after God's own heart'?

Remember Aniaas and Saphira? They told the 'partial truth'- and look at what the result was? Mr. Bush stated bluntly that Saddam Husien had weapons of mass destruction that he was hiding and going to use against the US- that is bearing FALSE WITNESS. There is NO WAY that Bush could have 'known' that Hussien had the weapons, and intended to use them unless he was a part of the plan, (ie, he provided the weapons, and laid out plans to do evil)

It's very easy to use 'Righteousness' to ease our own human and selfish interests- Jesus who is the 'CHRIST' in the 'label' Christ'ian- said those who live by the sword, die by it- He also said
and LIVED a life of non-violence-

the Radio-preacher may be 'religious'- but He is NOT spreading the Gospel of Christ- which to most, sounds like foolishness- folks like MLK jr. and Gandhi- who said quite profoundly- "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Perhaps Mr Radio preacher needs to read what Jesus has to say to those who 'He never knew' those who 'said all the right things' but did not WALK the talk-

sorry for the rant- i'm one very disilliusioned ex-fundie but still committed lover of Jesus-

The 'christ'ians so vocal today are not following the same lord i am-
they are stuck in the 'law' and will die in it- and do everything they can to be sure to 'meet out' thier version of 'justice'- minus the mercy and humility-

[wicket]

11. Great responses!

What an obtuse man! You handled it much better than I would have in your shoes :D

[gerrilea]

12. Hi everyone...we must have it someone's nerve...I got an unsolicited email

from some guy Ronny Tomason...from Florida...here it is...
DON'T WORRY I SENT HIM A COPY OF MY ORIGINAL RESPONSE AS POSTED ABOVE...Gerri

Francis Clark,

Read your Bible again and see how many times God told His government leaders to kill. Abraham (Isaac); Moses, Joshua, Samson, Solomon, Samuel (remember King Agag), David.
Then remember Jesus telling His Disciples to carry their swords for self-defense. Remember Peter pronouncing judgment (death) over Ananias & Saphira. Then Paul speaks of the right of Government to bear the sword (meaning to wage war and to kill criminals). It is you who needs to re-read the Bible and get a true picture of this subject. Christians who defend themselves are not committing murder. A nation that defends itself against an enemy who had attacked and killed its citizens is doing its duty and is supported by scripture. President Bush is a Christian leader who is defending you and all of us against an enemy who wants to kill us. Iraq included. Stop listening to the lies of appeasers who would allow your enemies to come after you and kill you. Thank God for the local policeman who is trained to kill to protect your life. Thank God for any leader who will defend our country (George Washington, Woodrow Wilson, Teddy Roosevelt, F. D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush). Some did it better than others, but they all performed their oath as President to defend the nation. And thank God for all the soldiers who have fought in defense of their homes in all the wars that Americans have fought in from the beginning to now. Thank God for my dad who was wounded in W.W. II defending against a nation that had not attacked us but who was in league with Japan who did attack us. He fought against Germany at Normandy and was wounded in the Black Forest. Thank God these brave men and women did not believe the way you do about killing. Or you would not be free today to spout such ignorance on the internet.

Ron Thomason
Jacksonville Florida

[gerrilea]

13. P.S. they are really crazy...and un-godly!