can one be pro-death penelty and pro-life?

[briankup]

I say no. Wondering what other people might think.

[ogradda]

1. a lot of people are

n/t

[IrateCitizen]

13. No, they're anti-abortion, not pro-life. (nt)

[Technowitch]

2. Yeah, it's called "moral hypocrisy" and lots of people have it.

[FM Arouet666]

3. The hypocritical right tends to be

The right wingers tend to support the death penalty and are nutso about the abortion issue. Total hypocrisy in my book. But the right seems comfortable with hatred and hypocrisy. Remember, repeat after me, up is down, war is peace, freedom is slavery.

[Stevious]

5. war is peace...

Nobody ever prevented a war by firing the first shot. -- Kelvin Throop

[Nordic]

4. linguistically it's a contradiction but that doesn't stop most folks

Dead Iraqis -- good!

Dead embryos -- BAD.

[Make7]

If...

by pro-life you mean the belief that abortion is murder, then I would say yes one can. I don't think there is an inherent contradiction, they are two separate issues. Killing innocents, killing murderers.

Why do you say no?

-Make7

[Left Is Write]

18. Well, let's look at it this way.

The president makes reference to building a "culture of life." Wouldn't a culture of life be one in which all life is given value, even the lives of convicted criminals? One cannot be supportive of this so-called "culture of life" if one is supportive of capital punishment.

We can look at it another way also. Many of those who oppose abortion rights do so because of their religious beliefs. It seems to me that those religious beliefs would also include not playing God in deciding who should live and who should die, which is just what capital punishment does.

I wrote a paper on capital punishment in high school (more than twenty years ago, of course, but I'd be surprised if the basic findings had changed). In my research, I discovered that not only is capital punishment not an effective deterrent to crimes, but that capital punishment states often had a higher incidence of capital crimes per capita than non-capital punishments states. Capital punishment does not deter. It provides for no rehabilitation. Capital punishment is nothing more than retribution - retribution that seems to go against any idea of a "culture of life."

If one believes life is sacred, that should extend to all life, including the lives of criminals.

[Make7]

21. All life does have value.

But some people feel that if someone knowingly violates another person's right to life, they forfeit their claim to their own right to life. Depending on what passage you select from various religious texts, this position can be said to be based on religious beliefs. (As can be said of almost any "moral" stance on any issue.)

Another way to look at the question is: can you be pro-choice and anti-capital punishment at the same time? If a person views abortion as murder, then they see this position as hypocritical. They feel that if one believes life is sacred, that should extend to all life, including the unborn.

I think a case can be made for any combination of pro-choice/pro-life and pro-capital punishment/anti-death penalty. If not, the debate would have ended long ago.

-Make7

[meow2u3]

6. Absolutely not!

Either you're pro-life or anti-life; otherwise, you're just talking out of both sides of your mouth. One can't rationalize it by claiming the unborn are innocent and deserve protection while, in the same breath, assume the lives of criminals, soldiers, despised minorities, and other humans already on this earth are expendable and don't deserve to be protected, without being an evil hypocrite. AFAIC, if you're not pro-life across the board, you're not pro-life, period.

[izzie]

7. What about the other way around. They use that all the time.

---

[Pepperbelly]

8. their argument: innocent babies vs. convicted killers. nt

[Killarney]

9. it's about killing the guilty and saving the innocent

[SemiCharmedQuark]

10. No, it's impossible.

It's not about killing "convicted murderers". First of all, a disproportinate number of death row inmates are minorities. Pro-Capital punishment people will say that more whites are killed and it is therefore biased against whites. THis is false logic. There are more whites on death row because there are more whites in the country. A higher PERCENTAGE of minorities are given the death penalty than whites. Not only that, it is distributed unfairly in regards to crimes. You are more likely to get the death penalty for killing a white person than if you committed the same crime against a black person. Further, it is also biased against the poor. WHo beats the death penalty? Well you have a hell of a better chance if you are rich and can afford a good lawyer. The united states execute people who have mental illnesses and who are mentally retarded. We even sentence CHILDREN to death. Why have the death penalty? It is NOT a deterrant against crime. Therefore the only reason is to punish in the worst way possible.

[arwalden]

11. Amazing, isn't it?

[Hey Zeus]

12. if the answer is so obviously no...

why are so many people just that? is it so simple to dismiss them as hypocrites or idiots?

[briankup]

15. Hey Zeus,How can you be thats what I am trying to figure out...

...It makes no sense. It appears impossible to be for life and for death at the same time.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[datasuspect]

16. maybe

we can simply dismiss them as delusional.

[Forkboy]

23. Yes

and why am I so entirely NOT suprised to see your statements here.

[fshrink]

14. Beliefs have nothing to do with logic. (nt)

[zanana]

19. You hit the nail on the head, fshrink.

That's why it's impossible to have a real debate with a right-winger. They just whip out the bible and read a verse or two. To them, that's fact. If you say "prove it", they tell you "it's in the bible". If you tell them the bible is interpretive, they call you "unsaved". End of discussion.

[The Revolution]

20. Pro-life = Anti-woman

It really has nothing to do with life at all. So called "pro-lifers" can't stand that women can make choices about their own bodies, and they want to return women to the role of second class citizens.

If they actually cared about life, they would vote Democratic, since abortions actually went down under Clinton (and have gone back up under bush). If they actually wanted to save lives then voting Democratic would accomplish that. Even if the republicans were able to ban the practice, it would just move back underground, and the number of abortions wouldn't decrease, so they wouldn't be saving lives.

If republicans cared so much about young lives, then where is there outrage over the millions of kids in the world who go hungry every day? Or those who have to access to health care or education whatsoever?

[ever_green]

22. They shouldn't be, BUT here is their logic-

A baby is an innocent life, while someone on death row is guilty. I'm pro-life, and against the death penalty because it makes mistakes. I just don't think anyone has the right to end anyone else's life.

[Cat Atomic]

24. They want to decide who lives and who dies.

Obviously the "pro-life" label is just marketing bullshit. Many of these people openly support unprovoked wars and even genocide- I've heard them myself. Then there's the death penalty issue you mention.

They don't give a shit about life, per se. They want power over others.

[Cuban_Liberal]

25. The RCC says 'no'.

While most here don't agree with the RCC's pro-life position, the Church is at least consistent, because it also absolutely opposes capital punishment.

[Swamp Rat]

26. No

[MattWinMO]

27. Sure.....

If pro-lifers are right and fetuses are persons than killing them would be wrong because they're innocent. People executed on death row aren't innocent people.