"The wicked are not always clever, nor the powerful always right."

[Padraig18]

History has proved this old Irish saw to be true more times than need be recounted, yet it seems that many here do not yet understand the simple truths it contains. In the days since November 2nd just past, I have witnessed fear, recrimination and near-fratricidal exchanges here, many of which flow directly from a common theme: the big, bad Republicans are diabolically clever and we poor, progressive Democrats are (nearly) powerless to resist the forces of their evil genius.

POPPYCOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We had our asses handed to us in this election, an experience that no one in their right mind would enjoy, but let's please take a deep, collective breath and try to regain a little perspective, shall we?

FACT: George Bush was elected by a mere 17 electoral votes, one of the smallest margins of victory in American political history.

FACT: John Kerry received more votes for President than any candidate our party has ever nominated.

FACT: Our party raised more money than any political party in American history.

FACT: 48% of the American people agreed with us, as opposed to a mere 3% more who agreed with Bush.

I do not intend to dimiss either the fact that we lost this election, or that the Republicans made gains in Congress, but I think many here are giving credit to the Republicans to which they are not properly due. The Republicans are not ten feet tall and titanium-clad. There were literally tens of thousands of Democrats elected to office nationwide on Nov. 2nd, including such notable successes as capturing the Colorado legislature, e.g. . In my traditionally 'red' county, Democrats won all 3 county-wide offices, and 5 of 6 contests for county board. Examples like this are abundant.

Our party has a solid infrastructure, and our roots go deep all across this nation. We have no shortage of attractive candidates for President in 2008. Our nation is led by a bumbler who you KNOW is going to f*ck up, and on many levels, but most especially in Iraq.

My point, then, is this: we can lick our wounds, get drunk and sing sad songs about the battle just past, but we must not be so foolish as to endow .... those people... with superhuman qualities. They got lucky--- that's all.

Thank you for your time and attention. You may return to your previously scheduled teeth-gnashing and hand-wringing.

;)

[Eric J in MN]

1. IF we're going to do better next time, then how?

We lost Senate seats in 2002 and more in 2004.

How can we regain the Senate?

[Padraig18]

2. By winning seats back in '06 and '08, that's how.

:)

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. I ain't wringin' or gnashin'...

shit. ;-)

I am, however, waiting for the real broughaha. It is coming as surely as the next sunrise.

[Padraig18]

4. Yes, it is.

A 'getting down to brass tacks' brouhaha is long overdue, and sorely needed. This 'stuff' see here (the teeth-gnashing, etc.) isn't the least bit productive, however. More like verbal masturbation, IMO.

:)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Let's start being more than GOP-lite

Be progressive. Show that we are for the people-the poor, the 'least of these', which are basic tenets of Christianity-and we have a lot of Christian Democrats that are eager to take back their faith as well as their country (btw, these same tenets are found in other faiths as well, so believers of all faiths can back us).

Have a spokesman who is not afraid to tell it like it is. That is, imho, Howard Dean. He very rightly realized early on that we had to get to the Southerners in their pickup trucks with Confederate flags. He can start a dialog with Southerners to find out how to get our progressive message across, and can groom Congressional candidates to help us win back the Senate and increase our presence in the House.

[Padraig18]

6. Can't argue with you there.

We need to look at how successful Democratic candiates created their successes, and get a party chairman with the brains and b*lls to do what Howard suggested.

:thumbsup:

[Padraig18]

7. kick n/t

[PATRICK]

8. The real humiliation

as always focuses right at the top, the shameful dreck that has control and the befuddled nice leaders who blundered or misused their advantages to keep things sane. It is horrifying as in 1930's Germany to see the thugs run wild over the weakness of the opposition simply by being illegal, ruthless and on another gameboard entirely.

The only thing wrong with the post above is the equal futility of self-congratulation since we are locked into a spiral of PRACTICAL defeat
that may very well circumvent any future ability to get at the entrenched illegality and PR fogged methods the other side is forced to employ. Incumbency of a monster is ever more a protected thing. Keeping up the enthusiasm of the campaign fodder discouraged both by the failure at the top to plan against criminality AND the handwringing flowing from THERE matching the propaganda lies foisted on the national forums.

Trying to get the workers and bases convinced that they have real power and success- when we are the ones undercut by the handwringing at the top and the unchallenged fraud they protect to preserve now lifeless myths-
will take real leadership. Full circle dilemma.

Bluntly. The GOP will do anything in increasing illegality and anti-American subversion to hold onto undemocratic power. They own the
means to correct the situation by electoral means. They are hamstringing the courts to deal even with small issues. We are in a Revolutionary situation, not waiting for them to go away or give us a legal fair chance.

You can only preserve the illusions of the above without dealing with the fraud, the lies and the crisis. How? Two directions at least. Topdown and bottom up attack, up front no holds barred, no trusting to the gatekeepers of opinion or the system to say That's right, you win." At least a coalition of REAL support on various single issues like civil rights, peace and above all stopping the means of electoral fraud.

What do we have now? A discouraged base that is NOT informed or united against the fraud or any particular issue now under SEVERE crisis, weakly, meekly trusting to this "next time's the charm" optimism. I won't even dignify the leadership of the party with my assessment of their terrible positioning after defeat. Laboring forever under the BS without doing a thing about reform or protecting America from the enemies within?

The handwringing starts at a top submitting to delusions created by our enemies. We are following the lies not fighting them. Even here how many struggle to believe the truth we were robbed in broad daylight when the whole national forum is SILENT then attacks and mocks us? It's that bad and most of the majority is still sleepwalking with little George.

[Padraig18]

9. Part of the reason you are 'attacked and mocked' is...

... that there is no empirical proof that a fraud occurred.

[PATRICK]

10. The absurdity of that

is having a vote count devoid of empirical proof in itself. More circular reason benefiting vincible ignorance. Outside signs point out the trouble and the sole beneficiary and the ideological friends who create and oversee the system. Empirically we are screwed.