Buyers regret and shock therapy

[nadinbrzezinski]

and why you too better learn the Bible, or how to have fun with fanatics.

Ok some shock therapy and even ended friendships may be needed to stop the coming conflict. In fact this may be too little too late, but this is a way to take charge of the morals issue and the loons who see the Bible as the way to go. Yes folks YOU WILL need to read the damn thing and know it, or pulling these stunts will not work. Now here are two things, what will it take for many currently voting Dixiecrats to vote Democrat at the highest levels? (Assuming for a second the Dixiecrat theory has any ground to it, and in some sections it just may) The first thing that may make our dixiecrats start reviewing their Republican voting pattern is … economic.

If current trends continue we will see a great depression, One that will make the original one look like a walk in the park. Maybe when they are hungry and cold enough they may go… you know maybe voting Republican is not to my best interest.

I also suspect we are well on our way to a hot shooting civil war as increasing numbers of people really do not care to talk to their D neighbors if they are R, or the other way around

I must say, I have had four cases of buyers regret and what follows are the tales on two of them, By the way, they met with absolutely no empathy from me, and here is where the shock therapy was applied and I recommend people do this. It just may shock them and it just may avoid a shooting conflict.

One of them was funny, he actually said, but, but your liberal attitudes may lead to a civil war, as if that was supposed to shock me. I told the person, :"so be it, your side has been pushing for one for thirty years, be fearful of the winds you sow for the whirlwind you reap may not be to your liking." Lets just say he was shocked... and yes I have been using this biblical language with them... which again shocks them, me amoral liberal am not supposed to know it.

The second said, but now I believe we will have a draft. Hallelujah he realized this AFTER the election. I asked him, so you voted for him, I'll help you out the door when the draft board calls you in. He had that look of... you are not gonna protest for me?

He said, but but how could you this is not too liberal of you

I countered, sweetie you voted for him, you said he gave his word, we discussed, we argued, now that it may be your ass on the line, your vote sweetie has consequences, and yes keep your weapon clean I want you to survive, and experience the full horror that is Bush. The rest of us have known this for over a year at least, you chose to vote for him because your family is republican. Well sweetie I am pushing my very liberal reps to first draft people LIKE YOU... you believe in this war but won't fight in it under any other circumstances

How cruel of you

I have no empathy left for people who cannot think for themselves. So you want to avoid the Marines, go volunteer.

I cannot put my life on hold

Tell that to the reservists dying right now over there so you can have this discussion, Then I added the final thing. I believe in the Bill of Rights and the country of Jefferson and Madison, you don't, I believe that Though shall not lie and you should do good works to protect the poor still matter, you don't. We don't have anything in common, sadly.

Then he went for the moral issue

I told him, look you care about gay marriage, when there is not such an animal. For you keeping gays from CIVIL UNIONS is paramount, truth be told this is so people will not have to pay benefits to them. CIVIL UNIONS have NOTHING to do religious marriages, but your side still believes that the Bible should run the country. Ok fine, can I buy a slave? He had that look of horror, Yes you heard me right, that same chapter of Leviticus says i can hold slaves as long as they are not Israelites, and I can also sell my daughter into slavery. So according to your logic... I can own slaves.

Then I looked him straight in the eye, according to the Bible you can also hit your wife with a reed not thicker than your thumb. Oh and non believers will be smitten from the earth, by God himself. That this is the god of fire and brimstone that apparently you believe should become the Constitution of the country. He was shocked, looking at me as if I was telling him a lie., He carries a copy of the King James all the time, so I challenged him to open the book to that chapter of Leviticus and then read it. Then I turned to The New Testament and Luke, and made him read it. Then I asked him, so which Bible are you going to impose on us?

His answer was, but, but, but you are Jewish, how do you know this?

Unlike you, I actually have made it my business to read it, both the Old Testament in both the original Aramaic and Hebrew as well as English, and the new Testament. So again, which vision are you going to impose the fire and brimstone of the early books, maybe the version of Daniel, what Kings, and which Kings, David is different from Salomon you know, maybe Prophets, Isaiah has some particularly nasty views of what to do with those who violate the Law of the Lord. Or... maybe... Luke, you cannot have all ways. They oppose each other at fundamental levels. Granted stoning is still present on all books, so next execution you attend will you stone the victim? I mean that is accepted by the Lord, you should fully participate and make sure you are splattered with the blood of the criminal to please yourself in the eyes of the Lord..

He had again that look of horror in his face, I mean true horror, and I thought to myself, GOOD.

that is why we have a civil society, where the priest is not seen as special, but just as a citizen, that is why the rest of us believe in a secular society... you don't. Again we have nothing in common. I believe you should read John Locke on Civil Government before you burn the book... it may explain some things to you. At that point he took his things and left, he said on his way out, "you are right, we have nothing in common... and this country has been divided beyond belief." My hope is I have made him think and he may realize what is going on, but I do not hold that hope... any longer.

[glitch]

1. nadinbrzezinski - I don't need heroes but if I did you would be one!

:yourock:

[hatrack]

2. Outstanding!!!

Fire with fire, the hotter the better!! Good work, NB! :toast:

[fudge stripe cookays]

3. Way to go, NB.

I've been considering this tack for awhile. Guess I'll have to put my money where my mouth is and start the re-education program. The bible not as a historical document or a religious tome, but as a weapon.

Do me a favor and lead me that chapter and verse first?

Who's up for it?
FSC

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Get yourself a copy of the Jerusalem Bible

It is easier to read as the translation is far more modern. You may also want to invest in a copy of King James, you can find both at I believe Costco

Then MEMORIZE the ten commandments, use James for that... this is the first thing you have to do,

The first commandment is very useful as these loons have placed money and profit before the Lord, and I am not shitting you


Then read Leviticus. Most of it involves things such as dietary laws, they bsically come down to oh... think like don't eat pork and shell fish... (If you think about it it made a lot of sense, for pork to be safe it needs to be throughly cooked, try that in a desert... and shell fish goes bad faster than fish, yes my cynical view of dietary laws)

Now you will find in Leviticus other things, such as women who are menstruating are dirty, and you should not lay wiht one under any cirucumtance and they must wash themselves afterwards to purify themselves... You will also find how to punish weary wives and a lot on slavery and who is fit to become one... as well as some views on men laying with men, a no-no in blibical times... again with good reason, you should reproduce and this is not conducive to reproduction

Most of the laws in Leviticus are not what you would like to live a modern life.

Then read ALL the first five books, then go for Prophets, concentrate on Daniel, Isiah and even Gideon, the last one is a minor one but will help... Oh and also find the two female prophets, their names escape me right now. When the rightie tells you that women should not minister the worlds of the Lord, then why were two woemn chosen to do this? And prophets were chosen by the Lord, they did not bring this upon themselves

In the New Testament concentrate first on Luke, also on Acts... and the book of prophecy may be entertaining. Paul can be used, but he is a tad more difficult unless you want to use his conversion on the road to Damascus

And the bible is a historical book, and a morality take and a good novel, and all the rest wrapped into one... you will find arguments in there to use against teh righties... trust me, they do not know it well, at all. I used to hate my classes in bible study (not what you are thinking, it was a jewish school we read it as HISTORY), but boy now it is becoming oh so usseful.

[fudge stripe cookays]

17. I know what you mean.

I went to Catholic school for four years (ao already know all them commandments!).

I hated religion class at the time, and mass every Friday morning, but it's all coming back to me now!

Thanks for the refs...
FSC

[bobbieinok]

42. I was told the Jerusalem Bible is an English translation of a French

translation. When I was an undergrad, it was popular.....but was also considered a 'R Catholic translation', which is correct I believe.

It was considered much more readable and beautiful for moderns than the KJames.

[lastliberalintexas]

33. Read Leviticus and Exodus

There are so many verses in there that you won't want to miss one!

These are but a few from an email I fired off the other day-

Exodus 35:2 states (very clearly, might I add) that anyone who works on the Sabbath should be put to death. But is that the Jewish Sabbath or the the Christian Sabbath? And are our soldiers exempted from this or are they expected to lay down their weapons on the Sabbath? And what about all those football players? Are they condemned- shall we stone them? So confusing...

Leviticus 11:10 refers to the partaking of shellfish as an abomination. Since this is the very word that is used to describe homosexuality (and the Religious Right thinks that gays are going to Hell)- who's going to tell all those Cajuns in LA that they'll be joining the queer folk in the eternal abyss of Hades?

Leviticus 19:27-28 forbids men from having their hair cut and from grooming their beards. I guess only hippies get into Heaven. Who's gonna tell the Marines?

Leviticus 24:10-16 forbids any blasphemy and calls for the punishment for same to be death by stoning. Note that saying the name of God or Jesus in any but a reverant sense is blasphemy. And many even consider the corruption of those names (as in gosh or golly) to be blasphemous. So when does the stoning party begin?



And these are just a few from the OT. There are also quite a few great passges in the NT (esp Matthew) that you'll need to know too. It's so much fun! They really do look at you like you're the proverbial "the Devil quoting scripture"!

[Yuugal]

4. Bravo! nt

[sui generis]

5. good for you

I commend you on your patience.

My tack is to ask them questions. "Hey, do you even KNOW any gay people?"

"Why are we fighting that war?" Oh FREEDOMS! From a monster who killed 3000 of his own people. But we had to kill 100,000 to "liberate" them?

Again, I commend you on your patience. I am too combative - I have already "ended the friendships" where they have been belligerent, and advised the remaining few that some topics are off limits unless they want me to make them cry, and in absolutely no case do I have anyone I would consider a "friend" who is against same sex civil unions.

It is a divided country. I hate being full of anger at my fellow Americans. I am really uncomfortable despising our government. I don't want to have "pet issues" that are "social issues" merely because they have been thrust upon me to defend.

But because I am an American, in this so-called "civil" war, I will fight for America's freedoms against oppressive fanatics who want to change this country into a medieval religious oligarchical society.

This America of today is certainly not the America I bought off on when I officially became an American citizen (I'm a dual German/American).

I am deeply grateful that my family are all pro-gay-marriage, regardless of their political affiliations, because I would be hard pressed to overlook that flaw. That's the rub in any civil war though - families are split up and take sides, except this one is more insidious since it's not fought on a battlefield but rather in our defining culture.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. As a fellow naturalized citizen

I know exactly what you mean. Trouble is, YOU AND I had to actually learn what this country was founded on... many of these people were not taught.

And yes we are now talking of civil war, we have been in one since oh December 12th, 2004.

[m berst]

8. the struggle within Christianity

"George Bush is a Moral Man"

As a Christian, I applaud your efforts nadinbrzezinski. Christianity has become welded to a politcal cause in the minds of many Christians, and there is an intense struggle going on over this.

"Goerge Bush is a moral man." This is the most common justification that supporters give for supporting Bush, and at first blush it seems as though there is no way to argue against this. However, this idea that he is moral is based upon his supposedly having given his life to Jesus. If you are a Christian, or if you have guts and compassion, you can deflate this line of thinking very easily.

There are two problems you will run into when you talk with Christian Bush voters. First, you can't defeat a theological argument with a political argument. God will always trump the founding fathers. Secondly, every liberal argument serves to strengthen and reinforce their views - in fact, their views depend upon, and get sustenance from liberalism the way that ticks depend on and get nourishment from mammalian hosts.

So what to do? You can do what a lot of liberals do and run the other direction as fast as you can. You can't criticize their philosophy, because they hear that as criticism of God Almighty, and visions of hellfire and damnation dance through their heads. You can't espouse liberal principles to them, because they hear the voice of Satan speaking through you when you do that. I know, it sounds crazy, but hang in there with me.

Here is the secret - the seeds for the unraveling of their arguments reside within their arguments. For Dominionism to hang together the teachings of Jesus need to be turned upside down and be interpreted as precisely their opposites. (Dominionism is the theological bridge between Christianity and right wing politics. See the Yurica report - http://www.yuricareport.com/) This implies the whole theory of the anti-Christ, but that is another topic for another day.

The contradictions within the Dominionist theology are profound, and they represent the Achille's heal of the right wing Christian movement, but they are theological contradictions, not political contradictions. No one goes after this Achille's heel, because all who are not "believers" steer clear of talking about theology at all.

Check it out -

• Jesus said that love is supreme. Dominionism says that hate is good and righteous.
  
  
• Jesus said to be meek and humble. Dominionism says be arrogant and powerful.
  
  
• Jesus said give up your possessions. Dominionism says amass wealth.
  
  
• Jesus said to have compassion. Dominionism says to be ruthless.
  
  
• Jesus said to forgive. Dominonism says to blame others.
  
  
• Jesus said to "render unto Caesar." Dominionism says to be Caesar.
  
  
• Jesus said take care of the poor and sick. Dominionism says they're on their own and deserve to suffer.
  

Amazing, yes?

If you take a sincere interest and ask people about their faith, and then just let them talk, they will talk themselves out of the insanity. Ask them about the contradictions I listed above, but not in a mocking or critical way. They are so busy defending their theology from the likes of you, that they have never taken a good look at it themselves.

This is the key to getting God out of the extremist political movement, and once we do that the neo-cons will be seen as the destructive and corrupt power and money grabbers - and anti-Christians - that they are.

Remember - Christians have been bamboozled. They are victims, and that is why they believe that they are persecuted. They are just confused as to who is persecuting them. They are being lied to by Robertson and Falwell and others who are using them to advance their own lust for greed and power. They have been told that they are victims of liberals, and hate talk against all Christianity reinforces that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Agreed they are victims

and they are also very ignorant

So far I have used this shock therapy with some fanatics,

Their first surprise is... I know the books...

Second shock is I knwo what they stand for

So far I have had one of these people actually start to question, and thinking of leaving his RW Christian church... the problem he has is where to go next? I sugested to him to find a good church that actually follows the teachings of the bible such as doing good works and taking care of hte poor

My next pet project is to find a chuch like that in this town so I can send them there.

[fudge stripe cookays]

19. Try the Unitarians...

it would be a way for him to experience Christianity and many other philosophies at the same time, in a more unstructured environement.

He'd see what liberalism is really all about...living and letting live.

FSC

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. hmm thanks for the sugestion

would be funny if the local unitarian church got a bunch of new members all of a sudden

;-)

[fudge stripe cookays]

28. Here's more info, and...

you can find a congregation near you (at the Find a Congregation!) link in the left pane).

Go together. Everybody keeps saying we need to mend fences and build brdges, etc. Worth a try, huh?

http://www.uua.org/aboutuu/

Good luck!
FSC

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. If I can convince this person to look beyond

his RW church, yep I will go to church with him and may even bring him to Temple... he needs to start seeing the rest of us as human beings

[fudge stripe cookays]

32. Go for it!

I'll be pulling for you!
FSC

[MissMarple]

36. Or the United Church of Christ,

Here's a link. On their web page they're calling poverty a weapon of mass destruction.

http://www.ucc.org/index4.html

Or perhaps a Congregationalist Church. :D

The Unitarians, whom I admire very much, may be a bit too uh...liberal for a fundy looking for a new church home.

[bobbieinok]

40. Unitarian too big a jump...try Congregational (it has a different official

name now)

[lil-petunia]

14. interesting post, M

thanks for the direction here.

[m berst]

23. shades of gray

On the other thread we were drifting to polarized positions. I don't disagree with the basic observations you make about the things that have been done in the name of religion, and I'm not really interested in defending religion. The anti-Christian positions you are taking give power to the worst elements within Christianity and make it more difficult for those of us in the church who are fighting for sanity and who are progressives and left wing.

It may be difficult for you to understand how a person could be a theologically conservative Christian and at the same time consider themselves to be at the extreme left politically among DU members, but I am old enough to remember when I had a lot of company in this, 35-40 years ago.

There is no philosophy or organization in history that hasn't been hijacked and misused. Everything that you say about Christianity applies to human beings in general - Christian or not. To say that is not an attempt to convert you, or to defend Christianity or religion, but rather an appeal to you to reject the polarized anti-Christian position because it helps the extremists in the church make their case and it doesn't help us to understand or to fight the Dominionist movement.

on edit - typo

[lil-petunia]

24. I can see your point, and we are in complete agreement on Dominionists

But I have a reasonable excuse. I labor under a devastating, crippling disease. My first seven years of schooling took place in a conservative religious (RC) school. Caused irreparable damage. Since then, I have gotten better.

The arguments I caused simply by asking questions. But because the nuns were so much larger and older, (and were armed with these huge metal rulers) they did most of the arguing. I frequently was awarded with the right to kneel and repent.
So much for wondering out loud about nature, the origin of the universe and such stuff.

[m berst]

26. terrible

I am very sorry to hear this and would never defend the things that people did to you. And you are correct to observe that abusers have been protected and excused by the church as an intitution, and many church members have been complicit in their silence, if nothing else.

To some extent, does it not let the specific guilty ones off the hook if you grant them the "cover" of millions of others, though?

I see many people here say "Christians are often nutcases." I think it is more useful to say "nutcases are often Christians." By this I mean that people who are screwed up, and who would be doing evil things in any case, gravitate to Christianity and use it as cover for their behavior. The same thing happens, of course, with patriotism.

on edit - I really appreciate and admire you for sticking with this discussion with me.

[lil-petunia]

27. we agree again, (we must stop meeting like this. people will talk!)

Another pet peeve of mine is false patriotism, the idea that "Look at my yellow ribbon sticker on my gas guzzling SUV" is actually helpful somehow.

Likewise, I could never understand why we we sing songs before sports events.

True patriotism is measured by deeds, not displays. When we have enemies abroad, a patriot gets ready for war. When we face enemies from within, such as this administration, we must take other actions.

True patriotism has nothing to do with most of what the GOP preaches.


Amazing how memories of 40 years ago can stick with one. But I consider myself lucky. No sexual abuse, just good old nunnery flummery.

[m berst]

29. very good

The reason that tyrants and bullies claim to be patriotic or claim to be pious is so that they can hide among the flock to do their dirty work, and disguise their motives and prevent close examination. If we attack the whole flock - "fundies are insane!!" - we are complicit in granting them their cover.

Traveling through the South and performing in small Evangelical churches for years, I see an enormous difference between the simple, and basically good and decent people in the congregation, and the hideous and evil direction they are being led by the likes of Robertson and Falwell. If we attack ALL of the Christians - "fundy bible thumping red neck idiots" - we are giving powerful and truly dangerous and evil men a free pass. Everytime I read someone blasting Christians here a horrible image comes into my mind of Pat Robertson with a little knowing smirk on his face.

Falwell and Robertson INTENTIONALLY make Christianity look stupid to provoke a backlash from intelligent people. They can then turn around and tell the flock - "seeee?? They are out to get you." They are interested in dollars and votes - wealth and power - not in saving souls.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. That is why they must be faced with the ACTUAL words

of the bible

I am more convnced than ever that neither Fallwell or Robertson do that...

They must be asked to READ the damn words and think for themselves.

And they must be told, "IT is not your religious believes that are the problem... heck you received Jesus... now act on it and START doing what the Lord did... which includes doing acts to alleviate poverty, and laying with those that you have been told are not to be even looked upon... please DO FOLLOW your faith... STUDY IT, for he spent time with the sick and the poor, not the rich... and hold onto caesar what is caesar, and what is God's well god's."

Here is also the seed of a secular society... in fact...

So no, don't make fun of them, but somoe do want the bible as a basis for civil government, we have howed this road before... in human history and every time it leads to death and destruction... adn this is NOT a christian thing... but a fanatic thing.

[m berst]

34. it is extremely dangerous

Nothing could be more dangerous, which is why it is so important to be very clear and precise in our language. The people pulling the strings behind this Dominionist movement love nothing better than to get into a "does God exist" argument. "Do lying, manipulating, greedy hypocrites exist and are they destroying our government and our religion to gain wealth and power for themselves?" is the subject we should be talking about. In asking that quesion, all Americans as well as all Christians can find common cause.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Yes the christian church has been hijacked in the past

need I mention INQUISITION?

That said, to a point what we are seeing is far more virulent than any other infection we have seen in any faith in centuries (save the extreme and radical Jewish Orthodox movement... talk about another faith in the process of being hijacked)

Now what I need you to do is to challenge these people at the most fundamental of levels and make them face the ACTUAL writings in the Bible. So far I think, I have gotten some people to actually start reading the book, instead of quoting whatever their Pastor told them it meant... once people start INTERPRETING things for themselves they may see the contradiction of using these books as a basis for civil government.

Remember where Locke came from: the Hundred years War, and that the Hundred Years War was economic, but also religious.

What we are seeing right now is in many ways the rise of extreme fundamentalist religions, (not only christianity mind you, I alraedy mentioned Judaism... we are also seeing it with Islam, Hindu and to a point the leading edges of this in Japan) This has been called by some the Age of Sacred Terror... and we must find a way to defuse this, without scaring the living daylights of people who believe they are under attack...

Hence the first thing I beleive may work is to shock them into well thinking on their own. Is this very ahem Calvinist? To a point, and speakng of Calvin, he is part of the problem as those who are rich will be the ones to be saved... yes that is in there in Calvinism.

[m berst]

35. yes, agreed

"Now what I need you to do is to challenge these people at the most fundamental of levels..."

It is like swimming against a tidal wave right now. Since this is a political threat, masquerading as religion, I am approaching it as a theologically-unsound political movement. Most liberals approach it as a politically-unsound theology and make little or no headway.

Bush and Robertson tell them that to give up supporting them is to give up Jesus. We need to make sure that we are telling them that we want them to give up Robertson and Bush, not Jesus. When we tell them to give up Jesus, we prove Bush and Robertson right and allow them to go on pretending to be the protectors of the faith and using the Christian community to build their own power.

on edit - fixed a sentence to read better

[LeftHander]

9. They will just change the bible....

The King James is not the one used by the fundies...it is the new edition (Good News?) something or other. They edit out the passages that cause contridiction to stated policies. The bible has been usurped for political motives for centuries and will continue to be as long as people blindly follow the faith.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Ok start learning Greek and find the original text

of the new testmament

I have the advantage taht I can actually read the damn thing (the old one) in the original... so changing it for me does not work.

I know that they will change whatever they can or want to... hence why I was shocked he carried a King James version...

;-)

We have to fight fire with fire with some of these loons, and this means, you need to learn the bible... or at least relevant portions of it.

[catmandu57]

12. When my grandmother died last spring

Somehow, I came into possesion of her bible, it's sitting on the book shelves now. I've read the damn thing, in fact several versions of it. I suppose now I should get it down and reread it with a different eye.
I've set aside people for the same reasons, ot doesn't feel good or right, but, there has to be an end to this madness somewhere.

[jayfish]

13. Yes, They Do Not Handle...

the literal interpretation of religious text very well unless it supports their current crusade. I have done the things you outline several times in discussion of religion and the results are pretty stark. I had a co-worker disparage the Koran as a violent document once, so for a week straight I quoted violent passages from the King James Bible. He totally cracked and accused me of trying to take Jesus away from him. he was never quite the same way, when it came to religion, after that. People also seem genuinely alarmed when an atheist/agnostic knows more about his/her chosen religion then they do. Keep up the good(lords?):evilgrin: work

Jay

Typo Edit

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. No they do not

And I have gotten tired of the insanity, that is why I have made it my business to remember all them obscure passages from classes when I was a young lass

[jayfish]

18. There Are Some Real Doosies In There.

I don't remember the books or verses, but some of the best ones concerned the wholesale slaughter of ones "enemies", enslavement and infanticide. Very effective stuff.

Jay

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Yep, the fire and brinstone

part of the bible is full of this stuff

Other good places to look for them are Isaiah and Daniel, and of course some sections of Kings... no, not King Salomon (talk about racy sexual writing), but the latter kings... describes a nice civil war actually.

And what is so special about this? Truth be told infanticide, genocide, slavery and wholesale killing was common in the ancient world, and you forgot, teh salting of the land... so it cannot be planted for seven generations.

[Z_I_Peevey]

16. Has George Bush done anything

that could be called Christ-like? Seriously. I would like to use this question, and I personally cannot think of one single solitary instance of Christ-like behavior on his part. But I want to be ready for any possible comebacks.

Can anybody think of one instance in which he has behaved in a Christ-like manner?

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. You really want to PEEV them up?

some belief that Bush is the Antichrist... and I am not shittinig you

You read the books and there is plenty to suport this view (and you can use it, as the fundies are now fulfilling the role of the false church that will follow the Anti-Christ)

You could use this.

[m berst]

37. here is the weird thing

I just about fell out of my chair when I found out that G W Bush does not attend church and does not belong to a congregation. When I mention this to other Christians I get a few seconds of dead silence followed by "you're kidding."

There is no such thing as a faithful member of the church who... well, who isn't. One would think that even if his professed Christianty is a con game and a fraud, that he would at least go through the motions for the sake of appearances.

This man displays arrogance and hypocrisy on a colossal scale.

[Ladyhawk]

38. Maybe it's time for this ex-fundy to read the Bible again...

...and make a note of certain verses.

I've been trying to rid my "beautiful mind" of all the crap I had to learn, but it looks like the old knowledge might be needed.

LH

[Ladyhawk]

39. SkepticsAnnotatedBible.Com

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

This is a great resource, BTW.

[bobbieinok]

41. passages viewed as vs homosexuality, many others, AND the 10

commandments are in the OT

true Christians believe that Jesus brought a new covenant

where does he say 'The first commandement is to love the Lord with all your heart and soul and strength. The second is like unto it: thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. This is the Law and the Prophets.'

(some misquoting; maybe some combining.....but)

in other words, for true Christians....the 10 commandments become 2 commandments....and the basis is LOVE

so why are christians putting up the 10 commandments??? aren't they denying the 'new covenant'???

[belle]

43. Brilliant. Let's all study Scripture and use it on these maroons!

Sure, every once in a while you get the genuine article, someone who knows the Bible backwards and forwards; but generally the fundie schmucks don't even read the book they like to beat other people over the head with. they just treat it like some kind of holy teddy bear or something.

Woe to you, George W. Bush: 'What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, if he loseth his own soul?"

I also like calling them "whited sepulchres." Try it, it's fun!

[vetwife]

44. You will think my CD will be Preaching ! been throwing it back for

sometime now but the version I believe God really wanted us to be like. You know the Liberal version ! I am planning on taking on the Elmer Gantrys right down to the wire and their 501 c's.