The backlash-persecution of Evangelicals is coming........

[Proud2BAmurkin]

I for one can't wait.

Did my little part this morning. Made a minion at work remove the "First Baptist" Calendar from her cubicle,with 12 months of pictures of white blue eyed Jesus gazing down at fat goober red state hypocrites.

Told her some clients might be offended. I tolerated it for about six months figuring no harm no foul. Not anymore, time to flush out all the Repuke influences at least from the offices I oversee. I don't have to look at that shit all day especially after what they just did to OUR country.

[mopaul]

1. it's about frikkin' time too....

it's never enough for them, they are like the body snatchers, and they won't stop until stopped.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

3. They are a small percentage of the population and they're all assholes

Not saying all religious people are assholes but all Evangelicals are.

[Getchasome]

131. You got that right.

Notice how many of these idiots are ex alcoholics, or drug addicts? They go into rehab, find Jesus and exchange one addiction for another and believe they have to jam it down your throat as well. They're mostly degenerates, and not very well read.

[Mika]

2. Are you anti Christian?

Just asking, because the tone of your post suggests it.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

5. Nope, not anti Christian. I don't consider Evangelicals Christian.

Totally anti Evangelical though.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

59. i hear you and agree...the "Left Behinders" are NOT Christains

[G_j]

96. yep, they are Christian just like

Bush is an environmentalist. (not)
:eyes:

[Name removed]

145. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VivaKerry]

4. GREAT job!! Yay!!!

And to think, an actual liberal in charge of offices, in the plural! I forgot some of us have REAL jobs!

[Proud2BAmurkin]

7. my boss hates Bush too, so no problems there either

.

[VivaKerry]

13. Double Yay!!!

The few repugs in my office were up in arms about anyone discussion politics (or religion). Translation: anyone saying anything contrary to their creationist-laden views of the world. So, new policy: no politics or religion discussed in the office.

Good to know there is some balance in an office somewheres out there in the world! Made my day.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

16. You gave me an idea to put up a big poster of DARWIN in my own office

hahahaha

[KansDem]

144. Or how about a picture of a chimp?

To your left-leaning coworkers, you can say it represents evolution--the quintessential example of empirical research embracing the scientific revolution of the 16th & 17th centuries...

To your right-leaning coworkers, you can say it represents the White House and its leadership qualities...



See, Mr. President, we can let Osama bin Laden attack us and blame in on Saddam Hussein, and the American public will believe you because you're a Born-Again Christian...savvy?

[frankly_fedup2]

73. May I refer you to the Old Time Gospel Hour on channel 13-

Lynchburg, VA. Every Sunday at 11 a.m. I watch Jerry Falwell, and record for evidence all his political statements he makes behind his pulpits. I'm planning on including them on my website once it's complete. My blog (please visit below) is done and it's hard to find time to post in it everyday. My board is coming along nicely too. Once I merge all three into one place, it should be fun.

I must say that my favorite quote the Reverend Falwell made one Sunday (before the election). I did not get this on tape, nor did they include it in their transcript of the show on Falwell's site. I would give anything if I had. I believe it was the first show I happened upon and then decided to do covert viewing of his show from then on.. He stated, and I kid you not, this is what he said.

"I would not give a Liberal dying of thirst one teaspoon of water." Yep, pretty much verbatim. There was mumbling in the congregation, who I think was as shocked as I was; however, when the cameras showed persons in the congregation though they were chuckling.

. . .pending reports to come.

[Brewman_Jax]

6. They've been crying about how "persecuted" they are

Time to give them reason to cry. :thumbsup:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

10. hahahaha DAMN right.

.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

122. Who's been persecuting them?

do tell....

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

11. He's not talking about the liberal ones.

Or it seems so to me.

[Cheswick2.0]

15. he simply said evangelicals...................... they aren't all the same

believe it or not religious persecution is not okay no matter who is doing the persecuting.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

17. I would call it "self-defense"at this point, not "persecution"

His choice of words was unfortunate and unclear, but a generous reading would clear that problem in the reader's head.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

18. Persecution of evangelicals encroaching on my government is good.

.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

14. yeah, fundamentalist freakazoids.

Sorry but you can be one all you want but don't expect to put up a Jesus calendar in my workplace.

[Cheswick2.0]

21. yeah fundamentalist freakazoids Like Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton

Al and Tipper Gore, Al Sharpton, Martin Luther King Jr.

Congratulations you have joined the ranks of Jerry Falwell, deciding whoes religion is okay and whoes is not.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

25. You're damn right i've joined the tactics of Falwell.

My country depends on it. None of the people you listed believe in anything the evangelical movement believes in.

I didn't propose limiting anyone's right to go to church but I'm getting the evangelical Repuke influences the fuck out of my work place. No more "tolerance"

[Cheswick2.0]

You clearly do not know what Evangelical means

In fact they all belong to denominations which are evangelical.

[w4rma]

146. Cheswick2.0 is correct. You'd do well to listen to him.

Tolerance. Tolerance of religions, too. What you are doing is counter-productive. If you want to help you'll help bring more Christians into the Democratic Party instead of telling Christians that our beliefs are false.

[VivaKerry]

23. No offense, but I think right now is the time to say no

to ALL public displays of religiosity. I think all the christians in this country pretty much have it made in the shade, don't you? Whether they be evangelicals or just your ordinary decent, good guy christian who practices his faith.

Do you know how many people in this country will SUFFER based on all this faith based bullcrap in the coming years? With that in mind, if a christian is not a fanatic, then he has a duty to show up the fanatical ones. If he is keeping silent, fuck him, he gets put in with the rest in general terms.

For instance, I used to have respect for your standard republican. But their party was taken over by the radical right. In their silence, they enable it. And as such, today I can honestly say that every f'ing person who calls himself a republican can eat shit.

[Cheswick2.0]

30. nice try, but not constituational

sorry, I believe in the constitution of the USA and I believe in freedom of religion. That concept has protected us so far and as scary as things are now, I am not willing to give up any freedom...not even for those I disagree with.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

34. Well put.

That's why we fight them with religion. We all know that what they espouse is not Christianity. Time to make that obvious, and we can.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

35. Freedom of religion doesn't include cramming it down my throat at work

.

[Cheswick2.0]

39. what is being crammed down your throat?

Looking at a picture is cramming something down your throat. Not very strong in your own thinking in that case.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

43. I didn't care about the picture before but....."everthing changed on 11/3"

"Everything changed on 11/3" that's my new slogan and justification for removing the Repuke's calendar.

[VivaKerry]

74. I love the slogan, because EVERYTHING changed for me on 11/3

My new slogan.

I am FED UP with this theocratic crusade in this country.

[jayfish]

54. Sweet!!!! Does That...

mean that I can display pin-up calenders at work again. I mean, it's just a picture. I'm not cramming sex and exploitation down anyones throat. I just like the pretty girls.

Jay

[Proud2BAmurkin]

57. if your boss says ok, bring em on

.

[VivaKerry]

76. ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!

Bingo.

[Guaranteed]

83. No, that is NOT a winner. That's BULLSHIT.

There's a big difference between sexual inappropriateness and being religiously over-zealous. People have every right to wear their religion on their sleeve. If it starts getting in the way of work, they need to cut it out. But a Jesus calendar is nowhere near that.

[jayfish]

98. Wow That Was Pretty Harsh...

for an analogy, but hey sex is real and "god"? ...well. How about my Church of Satan calendar then?

Jay

[Getchasome]

137. OH YES IT IS.

IT all depends on which side you look at it from. Do you think another man is gonna take offense to a pin up girl poster in my cube? I doubt it. But most women sure would, and I would have to take it down. A Jesus poster or calendar isn't gonna offend another Jesus freak, but it just might bother an athiest, or someone of another religion that doesn't believe in Jesus. Everyone one of these religious nuts can go to church, worship however they want in their church or their homes, but don't bring it into work or public places, it's just as inappropriate to some as pin up girls are to many women.

[CarbonDate]

130. So can I post nudie girl calanders at work?

I'm not forcing anybody to look at my calander.

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VivaKerry]

70. Constitutional?

Since when are private businesses required to allow employees to put up a friggin ALTAR at their desk? That isn't in the constitution. What IS in the constitution is that the govt cannot go into private homes and bash altars, or even force employers to allow/disallow altars in peoples' cubicles. It's about the govt's relationship to the people in re to religion.

FREEDOM does not mean you can tread on everyone's toes unhindered. It is that the govt cannot tread on the citizenry's toes. A distinct difference.

But, hey, you have your panties in a bunch because someone doesn't dig your jesus. And it isn't flying in this discussion. Sorry, charlie.

UNTIL christians, probably a lot like yourself, decide to stand up and say "I won't stand for this country being a theocracy," christians will not get one ounce of compassion or tolerance for me. I will reserve that for the muslims who don't get hired; or for the drug addict who has to take a loyalty oath to get treatment, etc. etc. etc.

Religion = good
Theocracy = our demise.

[Guaranteed]

85. Private businesses DON'T have to allow people to do much of anything,

really, especially when it comes to expressing opinions. But religion is a totally inappropriate area for businesses to regulate, as long as it isn't getting in the way of work. As long as people aren't holding prayers in the halls, it's fine.

[TankLV]

123. You are completely and utterly wrong.

Private businesses CAN do ANYTHING they want in this area. It is perfectly legal to FORBID ANY PERSONAL DISPLAYS at all in the workplace. My former job prohibited ANY displays of pictures, etc. - only work-related items were permitted on desks, etc.

Like all you "right to work" types scream - it cuts both ways. The employer is supreme in this area - unfortunatley, most are of the the repuke/idiot fundamentalist talibornagain variety.

[mamalone]

94. Thank you Cheswick2.0! nt

nt

[datasuspect]

95. the united states constitution

and the bill of rights do not apply in most private enterprises.

[DuaneBidoux]

114. I think there is also a different tact that can be taken...

You may have heard in Dallas City Council where they started opening up meetings with prayer (and not just "generic" prayer but Christian prayer). Finally a Wiccan group said they wanted equal time. There was one meeting opened up with a Wiccan prayer and then after that, magically, no more public prayers.

When people want to teach "creationism" in science class, we need to push for equal time for Buddhists, Native American, and other "creation science."

If someone wants to display (like in Alabama) the Ten Commandments on public property then we need to demand display of other sacred documents from other religions.

You'd be surprised how fast these people would "tone down" once they realized they were having other people's religions stuffed down their throats the way they had been trying to stuff it down ours. Either that or it would bring about full scale, potentially even violent religious wars (how it usually works in the rest of the world).

[Roxy66]

36. Get a clue

[muse]

75. I agree. Evangelical Christian did not used to be a dirty word.

This is something the religious right has hijacked. To be an evangelical Christian means to be born again - to say that you have confessed before Christ that you were a sinner, but now you profess him as your Savior. The Baptist church, for one is an evangelical church. It used to be that the Baptist tradition was not fundamentalist. That all changed in the 80's. Now, Southern Baptists are fundamentalist, but there are Baptist denominations that are not fundamentalists. So, you can be an evangelical Christian and not deserve these attacks. I know the most about Baptists, but I am sure there are other Christian evangelical people who don't deserve the abuse.

[VivaKerry]

81. I think definition no. 6 is what are talking about here:

because the first FIVE, though technically true, is NOT what is happening in this god-forsaken, science-crushing nation:

4 entries found for evangelical.
e·van·gel·i·cal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vn-jl-kl, vn-) also e·van·gel·ic (-jlk)
adj.

1. Of, relating to, or in accordance with the Christian gospel, especially one of the four gospel books of the New Testament.
2. Evangelical Of, relating to, or being a Protestant church that founds its teaching on the gospel.
3. Evangelical Of, relating to, or being a Christian church believing in the sole authority and inerrancy of the Bible, in salvation only through regeneration, and in a spiritually transformed personal life.
4. Evangelical
1. Of or relating to the Lutheran churches in Germany and Switzerland.
2. Of or relating to all Protestant churches in Germany.
5. Of or relating to the group in the Church of England that stresses personal conversion and salvation by faith.
6. Characterized by ardent or crusading enthusiasm; zealous: an evangelical liberal.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

9. Time to call them on their crap

Look, why should we respect the beliefs of these people when they use that respect and reticence to oppress others? We are giving them a free pass and it isn't like they are too respectful of anyone else's beliefs (ask Arlen Specter, who is learning this too late). One suggestion to everyone here: study the Bible. They use it to silence others by cherry-picking quotes and taking things out of context. So, learn the context, find the myriad contradictions and fearlessly shove them down their throats. If anything, it will get them screaming like the lunatics they are and their pious masks will be dropped for all to see.
One last thing: Jesus was, along with the Buddha and Socrates, the greatest liberationist thinker in antiquity, if not ever. Time to defend a great man from the depradations of his so-called "followers."

[PROGRESSIVE1]

12. The Blond Hair, Blue eyed Jesus is a RACIST stereotype of the west.

Christ was a Semite! Have you ever seen blond hair, blue eyed Jews and Arabs in the middle east, NO!!!

I'm glad you made that sob remove their racist picture!

[Mika]

19. Let me get this straight

I have been around the Latin Americas and Caribbean and I've seen renderings of Jesus made to look like the people there - black, Indian, etc... those are also racist images?

[Cheswick2.0]

24. I have seen very slavic looking Christs in Ukrainian Churches

:shrug:

[PROGRESSIVE1]

31. they are biased to their own perceptions too.

The true physical image of Christ is that of a middle-easterner and a middle-easterner ONLY!

[The Flaming Red Head]

20. White evangelical in the south is code for

racist-hypocritical-homophobic-vindictive-intolerant-assholes.

Do you see any black preachers trumpeting Bush's second coup as a return to so-called Christian values?

All I see are Jerry Falwell, Dobson, Pat Robertson, James Robinson; a bunch of stupid fat old white men.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

22. Yup, the ALL SCUMBAG evangelical brigade is who Bush represents

.

[VivaKerry]

33. Exactly. And that scumbag brigade incorporates

ALL Christians until each christian who denies them -- PUBLICALLY. Period. If they want the scumbag evangelicals to 'speak'for them, then they are responsible for what those scumbag evangelicals say and do. Sorry... If, for instance, someone from my gender gave the impression that SHE spoke for ALL WOMEN, and the world actually bought into that as "female values", it would be incumbent upon me, a woman, to have the courage to stand up and say, "no, that person does NOT speak for all women." If I don't, then I would expect some backlash. And as such, I expect to be giving nothing BUT contempt for pretty much anyone who wants to waive their jesus in my face!

[fertilizeonarbusto]

27. Thank you!

Those of you offended by the wording should not be. You are here, so you KNOW you are not the ones referred. Or, simply, don't be so literalist and interpret, for Pete's sake. Not interpreting is what...Fundamentalists do.

[Cheswick2.0]

32. I guess you don't mind the word gay being used for stupid or distasteful

after all you know what people mean when they say it. they aren't talking about you.

I'm sorry, I don't get where religious persecution is ever okay by the standards of the US constitution and Bill of Rights.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

37. Actually, I don't.

Not crazy about it, but you have to learn to differentiate and prioritize. And to consider the source. Or just grow a skin.

[VivaKerry]

82. See my post above re the constitution.

I am sorry, but you are sounding like a "moral values - they hate us for our freedoms" type, and it seems you have been around this forum for a long time. What gives?

religious freedom is about the GOVT's handling of religion, not private businesses and individuals.

If the original poster had FIRED this minion for her calendar, then she would be able to go to the govt for redress, protection.

[HeeBGBz]

49. I deal with them on a case by case basis

If they don't get in my face with their beliefs, I leave em alone. If they use their faith as a weapon, I give them no respect.

If they show any intelligence, I might respect the p.o.v. but most fling those buzzwords and sound bytes that the koolaid drinkers are prone to use. When any of the buzzwords pop up, I know they are of the programmable masses and will not listen to anything contrary to the "unholy alliance of church and politics."

I used to consider myself a Christian. Now I would call myself more of a Jesus follower. Christianity has been hijacked and reeks of evil influence.

I try to add bits of all religions into my belief system. All religions have their good points and bad points. Gut instinct in right or wrong helps too.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

55. Just goes to show

If you want succint sense, go to Missouri, Land of Truman.
:yourock:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

26. Why would any intelligent person...

Want to persecute anyone? I cannot think of one good reason why.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jbond56]

29. can we get an amen brother. nt

[fugue]

38. Persecution is *never* a good idea

It's a cycle. If you persecute because they do, it just spirals upward endlessly. Time to break the cycle in the name of sanity.

Your subordinate has a right to her religion. As a client, I wouldn't be thrilled to see it, but I would remind myself that it takes all kinds. If she was trying to convert folks, that would be different, but a calendar? The calendar I hung in my office (back when I worked in one) was Sailor Moon, a TV show that never ran in some parts of the country because it shows magic and the bible forbids the use of magic to believers. Now, if I had lived in Alabama and my supervisor had said I should take down that calendar because it might offend some people, wouldn't you be furious? But it's the same thing.

Overstepped your bounds and then some, Mr. Supervisor. If I was a client and I found out about this, that would offend me, and I'd take my business elsewhere.

Freedom of religion. If I want it for myself, I must give it to others.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

40. She's allowed to hang her calendar in any office SHE OWNS.

She doesn't have a right to do it here and damn it felt good to be a part of the inevitable backlash.

[fugue]

46. You didn't answer my question

Would you not be angry if a fundamentalist Christian supervisor had told me to remove my Sailor Moon calendar?

And if it feels good, it's OK?

I'm standing up for true liberal values. If you're going to persecute people, don't call yourself a liberal. We don't do that.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

56. if he told you to remove "sailor moon" that would be stupid

but his right in his work place.

I don't disagree with the general premise of not persecuting anyone but if "evangelical' turns into a dirty word when the backlash comes on, I don't care and actually will be happy as a clam and for the next four years at least will do my part to make it happen.

[fugue]

77. So we belong to our employers?

That's another attitude that I associate with Republicans.

We're not slaves. We don't check our personalities at the door when we come to work.

If I was your employee, I would sue you. I'd win, too.

[TankLV]

125. Nope - you would not. It's a PRIVATE business.

Some businesses forbid Kerry and Democratic bumper stickers and they have ALL been found legal.

Unfortunately, we ARE slaves and we DO check our personal beliefs and personalities at the door when we come to work!

Sorry to break it to ya, but that's a fact of life now in this fascist repuke country of ours - has been for a long time since "Union" became a dirty word and "right to work" bullshit became gosple.

It's good to give them a taste of their own medicine.

[Zephyrbird]

51. Let her have her calendar, friend.

I feel the same way you do--and I've taken a TON of heat from the "evans" here at work for my beliefs.

But don't stoop to their level. Rise above it all and give her the calendar back. You can request it's in a spot, if possible, that you don't have to look at it all the time. Can't blame you there.

But let her have it. :loveya:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

61. she has it. She ain't having it here.

.

[Neshanic]

42. Stop with the "persecution" crap. No religion in the office.

Good policy, and tough shit.

[fugue]

47. I'm sorry, I disagree

People's religion is a part of them. They're allowed to express it, so long as they aren't trying to convert anyone.

A calendar is a particularly harmless manifestation of religion. Save the hellfire and brimstone for evangelizing.

[Neshanic]

50. Save it, because the Bible meet in the lunch room is starting.

[fugue]

52. So long as they don't pressure anyone to join

I don't have a problem with that anymore than any other meeting that might be held in the lunch room.

[Neshanic]

53. That's fine. When your work is judged in faith terms, just give us a call

[fugue]

63. Your arguments are as illogical as theirs!

Yee gad, listen to yourself.

Judging your work in faith terms would be crossing the line. A bunch of coreligionists in the same office getting together to discuss their religion over lunch is not.

There are shades of gray here, folks, not mere black and white.

[bunkerbuster1]

134. Your work may be judged by your faith.

check out
http://www.christianitytoday.com/workplace/

but be warned--it's at least a two-barfbagger.

[jayfish]

65. I Can't Think Of Anything That Is More A...

part of human beings then sex and sexuality. We wouldn't be here without it right? So you won't mind the return of the pin-up calender as a form of valid sexual expression ...right?

Jay

[fugue]

69. That's hard for me to say

I'm asexual. I don't see sex as part of human beings, being as I am a human being and it's not part of me.

I guess I wouldn't mind it so long as straight women and gay men were free to hang up male beefcake calendars, too.

[jayfish]

148. I Appreciate Your...

openness and honesty. IMHO you are the exception rather than the norm. I will modify my example to deal specifically with religion. How about a Church Of Satan calender or maybe a Supreme Ayatollah of the Month calender? An upside-down pentagram tee-shirt perhaps? Maybe my Slayer tee with the big, ugly green demon on it? What about a Heavens Gate tee with the swoosh stripe emblazoned across the benevolent mother-ship?

Jay

Edited For Grammer.

[Neshanic]

92. That's right Jay! Tell him what he's won Johnny.

[Getchasome]

140. Can I put up a poster of Hitler at my desk?

I think Hitler was a great leader, and he believed he was doing God's work. It's harmless.

GET RELIGION OUT OF MY WORK.

[LoZoccolo]

107. Those were his words. n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

44. Thank you

sometimes the left really is as dumb as the right. I guess it is good to know there is balance in the world after all.

[Neshanic]

48. Thank you, "rollover me" democrats applaud you.

[Cheswick2.0]

58. gee, if you knew me you would know

what an assinine thing that is to say to me.

[TankLV]

128. Indeed. Your posts have been extremely enlightening.

Someone just doesn't view enough of them.

I just disagree with you on this one.

I can see your point, but I still disagree.

[fugue]

60. No, those who really respect others right to be different do

It's appalling. We're turning into them. Can't you see that that would be their greatest victory?

We draw strict lines regarding self-expression that neither party can cross. They can express their religion; they just can't foist it off on you. You can defend yourself from foisting but you can't prevent them from expressing.

For instance, there are no school prayers because that is pressuring people to be religious. I had, however, a Catholic friend who would cross herself before tests. No one objected; it was her private observance, and she didn't expect anyone else to do it.

Same thing. A calendar is personal self-expression, not even close to in-your-face evangelizing. Save your wrath for when we need it.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

62. "save your wrath for when we need it"? Uh...WE NEED IT

unless you missed the fact that a repuke evangelical freak just got installed into the presidency

[fugue]

66. We don't need it at a calendar

We need it at people trying to legislate their religious concept of marriage into the state concept. We need it at attempts to put religious codes of ethics on display in state locations.

Get some perspective. See the shades of gray. What you're doing does more harm than good!

[Neshanic]

68. Some still think that a conversation can be had with a Born Again

and make them see any point of view, other than the Bible's. Usually these are the ones who find overtly religious objects in cubicles harmless and charming.

Many company policies on work environment ban such items. Good policy.

[Cheswick2.0]

103. I would love to have a conversation with the amazingly intelligent

born again Jimmy Carter.

[Getchasome]

142. These born agains are all NUTS.

They base their decisions on religious doctrine. Look at the nutty pResident. What a jackass. I wish people would wake up and realize what century we're living in and stop believing in a 2000 year old book, written by men that thought the earth was flat, and the stars were lanterns in the sky.

[Cheswick2.0]

102. again you display your ignorance proudly

What exactly does evangelical mean? Do you actually have any idea?

[Neshanic]

64. Oh, you will need it. It's coming faster than you think.

[fugue]

72. BUT NOT AT A CALENDAR

For the thousandth time, it's about perspective. Save your wrath for the real fights.

And I'm not even going to dignify your statements with responses anymore, Neshanic. You don't have arguments. Just talking-point statements. At least the others arguing your side of this actually have something to say.

[VivaKerry]

88. I don't get it, it feels like a right wing sunday pundit show in this

thread.

All of the "let her keep her calendar" people have DEFINED it as persecution, and are now continuing your one-sided debate (ie, not even considering what the other side says but going for broke as if PERSECUTION is the issue. This other side is saying No persecution exists in this instance. Can you PROVE that it is, other than screaming "they hate us for our freedoms"?"

With that, I will head off to work -- where I was distinctly told NOT to talk about politics. That irks me to no end, but do I feel like my constitutional rights have been abrogated? Hell no. Would I love to work with a whole group of liberal dems? Hell yes. Have I been forced to NOT support my political party? Hell no. My freedoms are intact... until, of course, the theocracy gets installed in this country, and I am forced to sign a loyalty oath for jesus and the republican party to keep my job.

[Cheswick2.0]

104. exuse me but read again .,...the OP used the word persecution

and them reiterated that persecuation was exactly what he meant.

[riverwalker]

41. I would have done the same

Tolerate a calendar one day, and next it's a 3 ton stone statue of the Ten Commandments in front of a federal courthouse.
(ever notice they need to have a Jesus with blue eyes? The historical one with brown eyes and brown skin just freaks them out)

[VivaKerry]

90. Yeah, or the tibetan buddhist in the next cubicle....

puts up their gong and prayer flags and has to burn incense to be able to 'practice' their personality that they didn't have to leave at the door because of some unknown part of the constitution that no one here can seem to recite.

Yeah, christian girl would just LOVE the buddhist next to her. Oh, not to worry, no meditation mantras except at lunch time! LOL Ommmmmmmmmm

[fertilizeonarbusto]

45. Not time to persecute

But definitely time to fight back. Especially if you are genuinely religious: look what is being done to your faith.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cheswick2.0]

71. nothing is being done to my faith

lots of bad things are being done to my government. Religion is not the problem. People have a right to whatever religion they want to practice, it's in the constitution. What we are fighting is a political battle.
If you don't like someones religious ideas argue with them about it. Go into the market place and speak up. But don't persecute, don't discriminate and don't make the mistake of using words as code when you don't know what they mean. Evangelical is not a dirty word, neither is fundamentalist or Pentecostal. Revisionist, Dominionist, Reconstructionist... those are the bad words. Those are the people who want to remake not just all Christian denominations but the government of the USA. Find out who your enemies really are and if you are going to fight them, first educate yourself.
One of the most liberal people I know is a lesbian baptist preacher who is by definition a fundamentalist and evangelical.
Be smart, be educated in the terms of what you are fighting. Don't use words like fundie and evangelical to mean the other side when it doesn't necessarily apply. You end up losing lots of valuable allies that way.

[Neshanic]

78. Wait...a Lesbian fundamentalist? Please explain this hybrid.

[MotownLew]

86. It's like sweet and sour sauce. Um, maybe "sauce" was the wrong word?

[VivaKerry]

91. Kind of a love/hate kind of thing with oneself.

ommmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Cheswick2.0]

105. If you knew her you would know how stupid your comment is

but go on judging since opening your mind is clearly too uncomfortable.

[Cheswick2.0]

101. explain?

The world has shades of Gray you don't have the ability or understanding or knowledge to see. Educate youself on the topic of religion and you won't need an explanation.

[Neshanic]

108. She's a lesbian. Right? Does she believe the Bible as truth.....

as required for Fundamentalists? If so she has some explaining to do at the next Bible get-together.

You see...gays, non-believers, Catholics, Hindus, cats, dogs, Methodists...well everyone that does not believe in the Bible in it's entirety as truth, is a not a Fundamentalist. Fundamentals..that's why it is called that. Born Agains are Fundamentalists.

Oh, did I mention lesbians?

She would be REQUIRED to give up the lesbian way of life.

Sorry, no negotiation is allowed. Their rules.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

79. Um

religion is being used for politics. It's no longer a private matter for those people because they choose it not to be-for themselves or for anyone else. That is what I'm getting at. And, yes, I see that a a disservice to faith.

[Cheswick2.0]

106. then your problem is politics isn't it?

not religion at all...which is protected under the constitution. I am sorry you can't get the distinction.

[TankLV]

133. Fundamentalism is a "dirty word" indeed.

It is the root cause of all this crap today.

If it is bad for OSAMA and the TALBAN and the Muslim Extremists, why is it OK for taligornagain so-called "christians"?

One of the PROBLEMS in todays world is FUNDAMENTALISM.

Evangilizing is also a problem, because THEY don't repect MY beliefs and all evangelicals DO want to push THEIR beliefs on ME.

In case you haven't noticed, "evangelical" persons do NOT believe in "live and let live". It's "convert to MY belief's or you will die" or "burn in hell" or some other variant.

And Jimmy Carter LEFT the SOUTHERN BAPTIST (bigot) CHURCH long ago.

[Bridget Burke]

80. Gosh, you're so brave.

How impressive.

I'm sure the clients like you much better. Such a way with words!

[MotownLew]

84. Aw crap. You mean Jesus didn't look like the Osmonds?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

135. Nope. Not even Jimmy n/t

.

[Guaranteed]

87. You shouldn't have done that.

And you know why.

[burn the bush]

89. christians lost me a long time ago

although i think religion is good for a person, I am not at all fond of organized religion. I believe that religios doctrine has been changed to fit their needs. They have the audacity to preach to us while having sex with boys. No, I can't take the Jesus Freaks who push it on you. And I am sick to death of them condeming other people while they themselves sin.
I don't trust churches and I am terrified of the religion and state coming together with Bush. Church and state must seperate. Other wise we are exactly what we are preaching against to the muslims.
However, I do believe in ones personal conection with God.
Hope i havent offended all. But if that offends, you should hear what i told a nun when my dad died. Or what i told the "preacher" that they sent to my hospital room to save my soul before i died. Well, i didnt die but there was no way that i was gonna lie and have my sold "saved" I said some pretty bad things to the man of the cloth.
I think it was presumptuous of them to ask him to come save me in the first place. Religion is ok-just don't push it on me.

[HFishbine]

93. Bad form

It's been up for six months and you are worried that some cleints "might" be offended? Don't you think you would have heard a compaint by now if that were the case?

I think what you did is petty, vindictive and counterproductive.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

97. Here are some questions to ponder:

Is her cubicle in a place where customers will see it?
If so, then she should remove the calendar. Personal statements of employees' beliefs have no place in areas accessible to customers. (If owners choose to do so, that's their business.)

Are people of other religions allowed to put up personal religious items in their cubicles? Would you have reacted to someone who put up a Buddha or a Native American religious symbol?

Do you forbid employees to wear crosses or Stars of David?

[undergroundpanther]

100. It comes down to bullying

Fundies who will not shut up about god and turn off the sales pitches aimed at you are bullying.
Fundies who have constant ads for jaysus and yammer on and on are guilty of Advertizing thier churches.
Advertizing works if you are selling something remember. It ain't personal, Christians have this silly part in thier bibble about converting the entire world to thier religion and that all others are sin so they have been theocrats since their beginning.Lets get honest Christian theocracy is the aim of christianity.
If ya wanna get after christian advertizers, Get companies that think it's OK to have TV urinals and invade every TV show,magazine,almost every website ,landscape view,mailbox ,taxicab roof,fresh fruit with
ad vertizing buillshit,than you might have justification for shutting down fundie ads too.
Everybody wimps out when it comes to telling big business adverizers to to fuck off with the ads. Church and big business are the same thing really, one sells products the other sells belief products.Both pollute everyones mental spaces and are agressive about it and have a hard time accepting NOT INTERESTED! All of them want to persuade and influence your thinking and feelings for thier own wants. All of them seek to control others.

Bullying to control mental headspace when asked to stop/shut up is bullying IMHO.

[mondo joe]

115. Many workplaces say no personal material and so on

It's not fair or legal to target one religion.

But it is fair and legal to have broad policies about the personal items on display.

[mopaul]

99. woo woo!...numero 100

[LoZoccolo]

109. Maybe this will convince her to not vote for Republicans.

No it won't.

[PhuLoi]

110. Tolerance is a virtue for the powerfull, it is a failed stratedgy for

survival for the powerless. Historically, the Abrahamic religions have been the least tolerant, although ironically, Islam, early on, was far more tolerant than its predecessors.

[Hamlette]

111. fundamentalists feed on this stuff.

by definition they believe everyone is out to get them.

I think we should ignore them.

However, I do agree, religious calendars are wrong.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

138. Like someone said before "give them a reason to complain"

.

[JerseygirlCT]

112. They live for this, you know.

They NEED to feel persecuted. They'll invent persecution where it doesn't exist.

Don't feed the beast! Don't sink to their level.

[Kitka]

113. I agree.

I don’t think that feeding their persecution complex will help right now. I don’t want to have Christianity shoved down my throat at work, but if it’s not in an area where clients are usually present, I’d leave it alone. I don’t complain about my co-workers’ Christian screensaver and calendar, and she doesn’t complain about my Buddha on my desk. People can co-exist comfortably in a workplace without having to cut out religious symbols completely.

[jayfish]

149. Christianity Is Born From Persecution.

The persecution of both Jesus and the apostles. Persecution is the well-spring of faith for them.


Jay

[OnionPatch]

116. I get your point but

one of the things that ticked these people off so much that they ran for daddy Bush is because they felt persecuted. Making someone removed their calander at work and these types of things will not help our cause, in my opinion. It will only make them more pissed and self-righteous and validate their idea that we are trying to wipe out God in our culture. It isn't just the fundies that are thinking that. There are plenty of religious people who voted Bush but aren't sure he was really the best choice. They are not solid Republicans but might become so if we start persecuting them for their religion. The best thing to do is make a laughing stock of the fundies and make sure stories of fundamentalists gone wild are spread. Most Americans are too decadent to become too extremely religious. My belief is that the rest of the Republicans will get sick of them shortly.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

139. That's the point. Make fundamentalists a shameful stigma

Sorry, out of "tolerance" since Nov 3

[mondo joe]

117. we had a bookkeeper who wore BLOODY Jesus t shirts

I swear - she wore these big white T's with Jesus drawn in black and big RED splashes of blood with biblical quotes.

She was a nice young person and I didn't want to bother making a fuss over it.

But that was then - this is now. I wouldn't stand for it today.

[The Wielding Truth]

118. If she had a Buddhist or Jewish calender in her own cubicle would you

make her remove it?Is she allowed to wear a cross necklace or a wedding band? What about freedom of religion? Don't make me have to fight for religious rights in the mist of this evangelical mandate climate.

[Beam Me Up]

119. INTOLERANCE ONLY JUSTIFIES THEIR PREJUDICES

Believe me, I understand your rage. There are times when I feel the ancient Romans had the right idea: tie these people to a stake and turn the lions loose on them. GOOD RIDDANCE. They have NO IDEA how obnoxious they are.

But the fact of the matter is, that is what THEY would like to do TO ME and people like me, isn't it? That makes ME no better than THEY are.

But most importantly, this animosity between people is precisely what the ruling elite want. They want us to be at each others throats so we never bother to figure out who our mutual enemy really is. Jesus knew and he threw them out of the temple. If they would help us do THAT, a lot of this animosity could be reconciled on BOTH sides of the fence.

[mondo joe]

120. They're justified no matter WHAT we do/ Give em something to cry about.

Simple: No material in office that is political or "message" related because of the potential for a hostile work environment.

So no political stuff, no religion.

[Beam Me Up]

124. But that (what you said) shouldn't be called "PERSECUTION."

Using "persecution" to describe what amounts to ethical policy--if applied fairly and evenly across the board--only justifies their prejudices and validates their own fears.

[mondo joe]

126. They'll call it persecution no matter what.

Even when they have the upper hand they say they're persecuted.

You are wasting your time trying to apply a framework of reason or truth to them.

[heidiho]

121. Based on a previous post about donating to charities

I'm printing up a little piece of paper that I will attack to every request for money that comes my way - I'll also throw them in the kettles, etc. It goes something like this:

You people and your "morals" gave George W. Bush the White House again. Now why don't you begin asking him to spend some of the $200 billion plus of our tax dollars that he has wsted in Iraq on a lie to charities at home. Until the time that he is out of office, I
will not donate to any organization. I'll keep the money myself as greed seems to be the watchword of the Bush Administration.

Especially the Catholic organizatons:

Your push for George Bush to the White House has resulting in my refusal to donate any money to any Catholic agencies.

Ask George for the money!!

[PsychoDad]

127. Welcome to being "one of them"

Intolerance only breeds intolerance.

what "they" did.

First step in dehumanizing your enemy. Are you sure she was your enemy just because she had a jesus calender in her cubicle? You sure she voted for bush?

And so what if she did? Doesn't she have as much right to her opinion as you do to yours?

Acted just like an intolerant fundy... Congrats.

You have lost, gave over, you have been co-opted by "them"

[Proud2BAmurkin]

141. Thanks and I'm positive

unless there is another meaning of the square "W" bumper sticker on her car.
She has a right to her opinion and her vote but I ain't gonna look at it every day and be reminded of the idiot especially when we have to see the idiot's face on the TV screen for 4 years

[kerry-is-my-prez]

129. The more liberal churches in our area put a full page ad in the paper

saying there was more to moral values than just gay marriage and abortion. That war, poverty and the environment were also moral values. It was very cool. They put two totally idiotic quotes from Falwell and his ilk at the top of the paper and basically denounced it.

I'll have to find it to see what churches it was. I can assume that it was the Episcopalian and the Presbyterian churches.

[mondo joe]

132. Why should a gay man have to see evangelical material at work

Why should a gay man have to see evangelical material at work every day, given the evangelical campaign against his civil rights?

Is that less offensive than a woman having to tolerate girly calendars at work?

[GreenPartyVoter]

136. Thing is, they ALREADY

think they are persecuted :eyes:

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[CarbonDate]

143. I think no religious or political displays is a good policy

As long as it's enforced across the board.

I'm sure that most Christians wouldn't tolerate me posting my "Witch's Calander" at work, so what's good for the goose....

But it does have to be enforced across the board. No exceptions.

[Moderator]

150. I'm locking this thread

Reason :

Flamebait