Some help in responding to freeper nonsense, please

[DancingBear]

I just had this forwarded to me from my mom(!), of all people. I think it's time to send a broadside back to everyone on the link, so I will. Since I'm sure many of you have seen this bit of claptrap before (it's been around forever), I'd appreciate your input w/regard to the bullshit within. Factual info will be most helpful - i.e. real numbers w/regard to * cutting military benefits, SS, etc. I'll post my reply when it's completed, but it might not be until mid-September, as we are (finally) going on vacation!!!



By Rush Limbaugh:

I think the vast differences in compensation between victims of the September 11 casualty and those who die serving the country in Uniform are profound. No one is really talking about it either, because you just don't criticize anything having to do with September 11. Well, I just can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really disturbing about the entitlement mentality of this country. If you lost a family member in the September 11 attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million.

If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier killed in action, the first check you get is a $6,000 direct death benefit, half of which is taxable.
Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry. And there's a payment of $211 per month for
each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt.

Keep in mind that some of the people who are getting an average of $1.185 million up to $4.7 million are complaining that it's not enough. Their deaths were tragic, but for most, they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Soldiers put themselves in harms way FOR ALL OF US, and they and their families know the dangers.

We also learned over the weekend that some of the victims from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization asking for the same deal that the September 11 families are getting. In addition to
that, some of the families of those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation as well.

You see where this is going, don't you? Folks, this is part and parcel of over 50 years of entitlement politics in this country. It's just really sad.
Every time a pay raise comes up for the military, they usually receive next to nothing of a raise. Now the green machine is in combat in the Middle East while their families have to survive on food stamps and live
in low-rent housing. Make sense?

However, our own U.S. Congress just voted themselves a raise, and many of you don't know that they only have to be in Congress one time to receive a pension that is more than $15,000 per month, and most are now equal
to being millionaires plus. They also do not receive Social Security on retirement because they didn't have to pay into the system.

If some of the military people stay in for 20 years and get out as an E-7, you may receive a pension of $1,000 per month, and the very people who placed you in harm's way receive a pension of $15,000 per month. I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks before they start cutting out benefits and lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting.

"When do we finally do something about this?" If this doesn't seem fair to you, it is time to forward this to as many people as you can.If your interested there
is more.......................

This must be a campaign issue in 2004. Keep it going.

SOCIAL SECURITY: (This is worth the read. It's short and to the point.)

Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years. Our Senators and Congressmen do not pay into Social Security. Many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan. In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. For all practical purposes their plan works like this:When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die, except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments. For example, former Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000 - that's Seven Million, Eight Hundred Thousand), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives.
This is calculated on an average life span for each. Their cost for this excellent plan is $00.00. These little perks they voted for themselves is free to
them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Fund--our tax dollars at work! From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into
- every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer) --we can expect to get an average $1,000 per month after retirement. Or, in
other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits!

Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made. And that change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us and then watch how fast they would fix it.

If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will evolve. WE, each one of us... can make a difference..

[radwriter0555]

1. Who cares what a horse and buggy am raydee oh tawk show host

thinks?

Just laugh and declare their opinions irrelevent.

[LittleApple81]

2. I prefer Al Franken's approach better.

Fight back with humor and ridicule them. If you don't fight what these people are so smoothly making people believe, we will never get out of the hole. Unfortunately, these radio talking heads talk at non-thinking, selfish thinking people's level and are causing more damage than we can even fathom.

[TlalocW]

3. Hell...

Agree with Rush Limbaugh on the thing about the military, but put the focus on the republican chickenhawks who did everything they could to get out of serving are the ones sending troops over to fight based on Bush's lies about Iraq and Al-Qaida. And while the troops are over there, they're cutting combat hazard pay, veteran benefits, etc. Say it's nice to see Limbaugh finally making a good point even if he is the administration's main propaganda tool for George's war as well as someone who actively avoided serving, claiming an infected boil on his ass was enough to keep him out of Vietnam.

TlalocW

[BJ]

4. Have you mom go to Snopes.com

Then tell her to type rush limbaugh in the search bar.

Unfortunately Snopes.com says that the basic figure Limbaugh cites are accurate. But as usual Pig boy twists the facts for his own nefarious purpose.

[Nomad559]

5. Snopes

http://www.snopes.com/

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/military.htm



Rush Limbaugh was disqualified from the Vietnam-era draft due to a pilonidal cyst.

http://www.snopes.com/military/limbaugh.htm

[meegbear]

6. Send 'em here ....

The Rush "rant" is here:
http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/limbaugh.html

Here's the social security part:
http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/pensions.html

Have them review ....

[wickerwoman]

7. Well, I can help a little.

Limbaugh is ignoring the fact that children of veterans also receive education credit for college (or other degree programs). They aren't cut off.
I got $600 a month in college because my dad was fully disabled due to Agent Orange exposure in Vietnam. I'm qualified to receive it until I'm 34 as long as I stay in school and work towards a degree. I'm sure children of soldiers who were killed receive as much if not more.
Or maybe the fact that many 18 year olds continue their education escapes Limbaugh (possibly a fact he wishes to ignore since I can't imagine much of his audience comes from that category.)

[HFishbine]

8. Tell your mom not to vote for Bush

He's the one proposing that death benefits for soldiers killed in action be reduced from $12,000 (still a paltry sum) to $6,000.

[Hamlette]

9. of course, it's all lies

you're right, its been going around for years. Amazing how stupid people are. Members of Congress pay into Social Security (since 1984) and their retirement package looks much like the retirement package of many workers (they get 1.7% of their pay for each year of service. . . it's a tad more complicated but that's the basic formula). The average retirement benefit for retired congresspersons is $39K. A congressperson with 26 years of service would recieve $55K annually. Here is the skinny:
http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/retirement.pdf

As to the vicitms of 9-11 vs military I think you'd need to do the math to see how far off $1.8 million really is. My dad has military medical benefits and as he has been ill for years (not a service connected illness either) you, the taxpayers, through his military insurance have paid out a HUGE hunk of change for his care. And believe me, I am exceedingly grateful.

If I added up what you taxpayers paid for my dad's medical expenses plus the pension he gets from the military it would be WELL OVER $250,000 and I wouldn't be surprised if it approximated $1 million.

Now, had he died early? And one of his survivors needed medical care? It could add up in a similar fashion.

(I always love how the Rush rant only names Dem Congresspersons who get pensions. Take out Byrd and White and Bradley and replace them with Gingrich, DeLay and Armey and if his rant were true, even I'd be pissed!)

[wtmusic]

10. First of all, it's a fake

Highly unlikely that Rush starts chain emails. Some freep clown started it and put Rush's name on it.

In the unlikely possibility that Rush is the author, buy her "Lies and the Lying Liars" by Franken, which proves that these guys will say anything.

It's going to be a tough sell. Most people still don't believe the president could lie.

[Grins]

11. All well said..

..I mean the replies you have recieved, not Limbaugh.

From the responses you already have, you should have all the information you need to respond to your mother. But, more important, is helping your mother and your friends pick out the hoax's that are out there. I was burned by a couple of them, and now I look at everything sent to me (I get a bunch of these things) with a very skeptical eye.

Those other replies mention snopes.com or breakthechain.com. Point your mom there - and tell her to bookmark the sites!!!!!! She should go there before passing this drivel to the rest of the world.

Second, if the author does not identify himself, assume it is a hoax.

Third, if the magic words, "..pass it on to.." are in the text, that's the first sign it's a lie. Really start to dig.

Read 100%, understand that 90% is a lie, then question the last 10%.

[dofus]

12. And if your mom

forwarded it to you as part of a mass mailing, do a "reply all" when you give her the link to snopes and break the chain. People who forward crap to everyone in their mailbox deserve it, even moms.

What's amazing is how a "reply all" once or twice makes people stop sending you this kind of garbage. At least it's worked for me.

[DancingBear]

13. Thanks to all for the help

Actually, Mom can't stand Bush and won't vote for him, but is still easily manipulated, if you catch the drift. She will believe that Limbaugh actually wrote the email.

The real reason for my soon-to-be rant is to get to my brothers wife's parents, who are a) on the list and b) dittoheads to the point that if GasBag said gravity didn't exist they'd buy weighted shoes. Father of the bride is a bigot to the nth degree - gee, THAT'S unusual. I won't speak to him in person, but I'm kinda looking forward to dissambling him via email.

Thanks again for the help!

DB

edit: should say "dis-assembling" - bad Bear.

[Solomon]

14. Here's your answer Dancing Bear to the dichotomy between the 9-11

victims and the death of US soldiers. Paying off the 9-11 victims is the equivalent of a tort action or personal injury action against the government, i.e. a negligence action just like if someone hit your car and killed you. Sometimes there's a trade-off like workmens' compensation: In return for not allowing you to sue your boss for injuries when he is at fault, you can get a limited recovery whether the boss is at fault or not. In other words under workmen's comp., you could never recover the potential of a lawsuit, but on the other hand, you don't have to prove fault either.

In a way, the government's funding for 9-11 victims is a similar trade-off. In return for not allowing you to sue us for negligence, (which would open 9-11 to a real investigation) the government is saying we will pay you up to a certain amount. (Of course there are other complicating factors such as sovereign immunity - which means in most cases, a citizen could not sue the government for causing damages even if the government is wrong or negligent. But in the emotional atmosphere surrounding 9-11, it wouldn't sound to good to be making technical arguments against the victims such as sovereign immunity).

Soldiers on the other hand, sign up knowing what the price for being a soldier is. The whole purpose of being a soldier in war is to kill or be killed. There's no negligence in it nor could there be. You can't have an army if a private could sue his sergeant for making a bad combat decision.