I'm SO MAD at these anti-Kerry posts.

[seaj11]

Why, when we stood behind this man, are we suddenly blaming, insulting, and accusing him? I'm so pissed. :grr:

[Dying Eagle]

1. I Know

Its sad.

[njmst12]

37. I'M PISSED-OFF WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY

It's about time we realize that this progrssive movement thing will get us no where. We criticize the neo-cons for their extremism but yet we are getting just as extreme as them on the other side of the river. Most of America is in the middle. And when we start speaking to those Americans in the middle, then we'll start winning again. Its no surprise that we've had a dem president for only 8 years in the last 28 years by the time Bush is done. And that was a centrist - Clinton. Reps now control the house, senata, white house and most state governments and legislatures. America is not Holland or some libral country. If we think we can sacrifice other issues like health care, education, jobs etc to get Gay people the right to marriage, then we can be sure that the drought is going to last decades. For those who characterize gya marriage as civil rights, please also explain what you will say to a polygamist? I personally am not willing to take such sacrifices. Lets begin standing up for the family, begin addressing those pocket book issues in moral terms and get humble. Then those in the red states may just start relating to us better. I having been getting very frustrated with the trend in our party and if it continues this way millions of folks like me will be switching to independents and maybe even republicans.

[Cheswick2.0]

40. What is this, some kind of desperate last gasp of the DLC...spamming

web sites?

Clinton did not run as a centrist. He ran as a liberal. Carter, LBJ and Kennedy were all liberal by todays standards.

[LittleClarkie]

45. And Kerry has been accused of being too centrist and too hawkish

unless you're with the RNC of course. Then he's a raging Liberal.

Maybe he and O'Reilly should go bowling sometime.

[Swamp Rat]

51. Pfffft! Your first post attacks "this progrssive movement thing?"

Welcome to DU and good luck!... or wecome back for a few minutes.

[JNelson6563]

54. "Us"..."we"...LOL!!

Yeah, you're real convincing. Mmm hmm.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rniel]

2. Like it or not

Most of us only stood by him because he was NOT BUSH.

[juliagoolia]

11. change of heart here.

Watch going upriver

That might change your mind about him.

[HEAVYHEART]

30. Is that on dvd or something? Where can I get the movie?

[LittleClarkie]

34. I special ordered it from Barnes and Noble on line

I'm still waiting to get it back from another Kerry supporter.

[HEAVYHEART]

38. Thanks for the info!

[LittleClarkie]

12. I'd love to know who "most of us" are

And many of y'all weren't talking that way just before the election.

Like the poster who said millions are upset with Kerry, I'd love to find out how anyone know who truly supported Kerry, and who is truly pissed at him now and would never support him again.

Aside from the political junkie vote, which is not your average voter apparently, I don't think the uproar against Kerry is as bad in the real world as it seems to be here. Not in my immediate vacinity, anyway (church, work and such.)

Unless you have proof, please don't project your disappointment onto "most of us" or "millions of voters" in that other poster's case.

[RoyGBiv]

19. Speak for yourself ...

My first choice? No. But he made his case well for me to vote for him. "Most" of the people I know who did so feel the same way.

[Redleg]

21. "Most of us?" How do you know that?

Did you take a poll? If so, was it a scientific poll? I didn't think so.

[Carolinian]

43. Kerry was wonderful. Despite the media and the voter fraud, he came

very close to winning. We had a great group of candidates and we should be very proud of all of them and their wives as well as the DNC. GREAT JOB TEAM!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

63. "... most of us ........"

Speak for yourself.

I've been a Kerry fan ever since he spoke out on behalf of VVAW.

[Cuban_Liberal]

3. Welcome to the Democratic Party!

This is how it always is, and how it's always been.

:shrug:

[LittleClarkie]

35. Might it be said it's also one of our problems

Eating our own this way?

Was Al Gore this tasty 4 years ago?

[Francesca]

4. I still support Kerry

but am frustrated (as I think are many others) that he has remained silent while more and more evidence of voting "Irregularities" are coming to the surface..

[HEAVYHEART]

31. My sentiments exactly..

[fugue]

5. I'm furious at how fast he folded!

I was promised we'd wait until every vote was counted and that we'd make sure every vote was counted.

He didn't even come close.

I'll still take him over Bush if we manage to prove voter fraud, but he has a lot of work to do before I trust him at all.

[juliagoolia]

6. I don't like it either

I think thought people are heart broken and looking to blame someone.

Now if they want to work to turn over the system to make sure all the votes are counted thats fine. We got a letter yesterday from Skinner showing us that the Kerry folks are on the case and working it.

We can't expect a Senator to go around making wild claims when he is a public figure. They would laugh him off of the TV.

Folks things are being worked, and it might take this election to actually get it right ya know.

Don't attack Kerry, he is working with teams of attys.

I don't think you will hear an atty(kerry is a former prosecutor) jump out and say all kinds of things until he has some proof.. my take on it.

He is saying he is going to fight for what we want and did say in his press conference he is still going to fight for the 55 million that voted for the things we voted for.. Hang on folks..The senate isnt even in session now.

[eataTREE]

17. Exactly.

Kerry has nothing to gain and everything to lose by making claims of fraud for which there is no proof.

Now if it does turn out that there was massive fraud and the election was stolen -- Kerry's concession will have no legal standing.

However, if it turns out that, despite problems here and there, the tally was basically accurate, won't you be glad that he didn't start making wild claims?

[Career Prole]

23. I guess folks have already forgotten the "Sore/Loserman" stickers.

Kerry's not the one who should be driving this right now, IMO. Let the others handle it.

[HEAVYHEART]

32. I agree ie let the others handle it

But where the hell are they? WHO is handling it? Who's taking the lead in this? That's what's really frustrating. Alot of people on DU are pursuing this but where are the dem leaders? :grr:

[molly]

7. Some are having childish temper tantrums because

they want things RIGHT NOW - THEIR WAY or THE HIGHWAY!!

or could be they are freepers........hmmmmm .... divide and conquer?

[RyomaSakamoto]

39. they suspect their vote was stolen

and our leader abandoned ship before all the votes were counted.

hmmm... :shrug:

[SF Bay Area Dem]

8. I saw a true leader at the debates and still respect him

It is hard to win a race when the decks are stacked against you from the beginning. I am talking about the voter fraud being uncovered now. If he runs again I will give him a shot.

[LittleClarkie]

49. Not to mention the media

and the fact that the RNC knew who their opponent was going to be before Kerry was even done with the primaries. It's hard to combat the early advertising blitz when you're still fending off your fellow Democrats.

A Repub friend of mine commented on how efficient Dems are at taking down their own candidates in the primary process. The Repubs then have a primer with which to attack the chosen one.

Kerry fought like a lion. I think think a lesser man would have curled up into a ball sometime in Augusst.

[d_b]

9. Though I'm a registered green..

I actually liked Kerry. Wish he had bigger balls at times, but he was likable.

[MsUnderstood]

10. can't speak for everyone

But I'm disappointed that our nominee told me "I've got your back", "we will fight to the last vote", "give us money so we can hire lawyers to fight any voting problems"

then he folded before ALL OF THE STATES WERE COUNTED. He appears not to have put up a fight for florida or ohio, two states where voting IRREGULARITIES are apparent (if not voter fraud).

Meanwhile, the media fuels allegations that the young vote, the homosexuals, and women were the cause of Bush being re-elected.

if Kerry stood up to the voter fraud it would be top of the news. Instead it is all about voter disappointment.

[toddzilla]

13. because so far, he's shown himself to be a total liar?

"we will count every vote!!"

[__Inanna__]

22. I admit to a lot of disappointment...

But for some reason I think he cannot come out at this point. Haven't you noticed how journalists seem to let Bush slide on horrible things and yet pounded Clinton to death on stupid stuff?

I think there's more to this than meets the eye. Sometimes silence CAN be part of a strategy. Only time will tell.

[Redleg]

24. Yeah, a "total liar." You wouldn't be exagerating, would you?

At DU we reserve total liar for Republicans and Nazis.

[toddzilla]

68. ok, massive liar..

but he seems to have let us down on the most important issue of the country at the moment.

[cali]

14. Call it displaced anger

or grief. Call it fear at what bushco will do over the next four years. Don't let it get to you. People are freaked, particularly those who believe massive fraud handed the presidency to bush and Kerry isn't fighting. It's pretty understandable, it's just not pretty.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dogtag]

29. You're damn right! I only wish he'd blown off the

so called undecideds in October and blasted the swiftboat liars with a rocket launcher back in August. Other than that, I've got nothing but praise for a man who gave his all and then some. He doesn't owe me a thing.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

62. Whiner

See what I mean? You think posting crap here is indicative of good mental health? This is what you think of as "venting"?

No, child. No. Sorry. "Venting," in its most constructive and healthiest form, takes the shape of action. You DO something instead of BLAMING someone.

As for sounding like Bill O'Reilly, I have no idea what that means. I've never seen the show or the man. And, given your cultural reference and thin skin, I'll wager you're watching 'way too much TV and spending far too much time at your computer.

Now, quit whining and go do something.

[NightOwwl]

64. Your Democratic mask is wearing thin.

I don't know who the hell you are, but keep it up and you'll get the boot.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

65. What kind of threat is THAT?

"... keep it up and you'll get the boot..."?

Let me get this straight:

I express my opinion, you don't like it and you tell me so, but not before taking the time to insult me personally.

Then, I respond to your insulting post, and you come back with a threat to me that I will "... get the boot ..."?

Do I have that right?

OK. Good. I'd hate to have mixed it up in any significant manner.

Child, I was working to register Negro voters in Alabama in 1963. Until you can begin to touch my credentials as a genuine leftie, you had best get yourself out of the house and into the fresh air and start wondering about exactly what you think the word "tolerance" means.

[NightOwwl]

66. You dish out bile, you're gonna get it right back at you.

Read your posts, tell me again about tolerance, and stop trying to start a flame war.

Rules:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html#civility

[OldLeftieLawyer]

67. I don't know what a "flame war" is

You do seem to have lost sight of what the issue was.

Now, go spread joy and light out there ................

[juliagoolia]

16. kerry people on the case.... see David's post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x33964

[OldLeftieLawyer]

18. Oh, and, by the way......

Go read your goddamned Constitution.

The election's not over until December 13. I'll leave it to you to figure out why that is, and what might happen between now and then.

If, that is, the whiners and blamers and former Kerry supporters with abandonment issues can stop their wheezing long enough to go learn about how their government works.

I really hate whiners.

[hlthe2b]

20. Yes, but5 unfortunately, I'm mad at so much now...

Especially those who downplay the importance of vote irregularity/fraud investigations.

How in the hell anyone--even if they have moved on and hold no hope/desire for a reversal of results-- not want the facts known so that we might work for change before the 06/08 elections? I just don't know--but it seems the Dems are split and about half of us think the investigations should stop?????????????

THAT makes me very mad.

[flpeach]

25. I'm Hooked on John Kerry

I think he would make a brilliant President. I would vote for him again in a macro-second!!

[Sterling]

26. Think how mad you would be if you knew he was going to take a dive

and were told to get in line or else so we could win only to see him evaporate into thin air when the fight started.

[m berst]

27. We need our leaders to stand with us

The time for loyalty to this or that personality has passed IMHO.

The question now is not whom do we stand behind, but rather who will stand with us?

Our leaders and representatives work for us, not the other way around.

"We are obliged at this time to struggle, with all the Powers with which the Constitution hath furnished us, in Defence of our Rights; to prevent the most valuable of our Liberties from being wrested from us, by the subtle Machinations, and daring Encroachments of wicked Ministers."

- Sam Adams 1771

Please read this article:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/11/10_democracy.html
Do We Still Have a Democracy?

[Ducks In A Row]

28. He promised to fight for the votes to be counted and instead

he cut and run.

we'll get things done without him. maybe it will eventually get him the presidency. but that will be beside the point.

in the end we'll get diebold and company out into the open, and the votes counted. we'll make sure they can't do this again in 2006

[tjwash]

41. Does that really suprise you?

Lets face it, he hasn't put up a fight in the four years that dubya and his cohorts have been raping and pillaging the country, so did anyone honestly expect him to start now?

[Old and In the Way]

33. Not me.

Supported him before, now, and if he runs again, then too. I'm frustrated as hell about the way it ended, but I don't think he's through. He knows the election was stolen from him and us. What I want to know is what is the Democrats agenda going forward? Will another stolen election galvanize them to act as a unfied body and fight these criminal totalitarians? Will they roll over? I don't know, only time will tell.

[Party_like_its_1984]

36. We are primates

Kerry, our champion has been beaten by the dominant monkey. Primitive instincts now take over to kill, banish attack Kerry.

[tjwash]

42. I am not some dittohead that stands behind whatever suit the party...

...puts in front of me, especially when he runs an awful campaign, and then folds like a cheap lawn chair when it is time for him to get tough and fight. We are no better than one of these "my country, or my leader right or wrong" idiots if we do that.

It's time to grow the fuck up, and realize that the system is broken, and it is up to us to fix it, and that people need to see, that voting for one of two differing appointed representatives of the ultra wealthy, so that they can decide how to divvy up our treasury amongst themselves, and leave us fighting for the scraps that fall off of their tables, is not the way to go.

[City of Mills]

44. Kerry's my homeboy!

He's always welcome at my place in Lowell, though his old house here is in a much nicer neighborhood!

[newyawker99]

69. Hi kerouac_lowell!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[killbotfactory]

46. The Buck Stops.... where?

I'm pissed off because Kerry lost to the worst president in history.
I'm pissed off because I saw this coming during the primaries.
I'm pissed off because I had to choke back all the misgivings I've had about his campaign since he won the primaries.
Kerry is responsible for the fate of this election.

[desi826]

60. The Buck stops here and in Washington

Killbotfactory wrote:

"I'm pissed off because Kerry lost to the worst president in history."

He didn't lose; 6 million votes were not counted....purposely.
And Bush was given thousands of extra votes throughout the country without explanation. But I agree that no other Repub Prez will make such an easy opponant than Bush.

"I'm pissed off because I saw this coming during the primaries."

I saw this coming directly after the 2000 election.
This is what you get when your answer to a stolen election is "move on" Dems did nothing to protect their vote. It is THEIR votes being attacked. On top of that, every election, they are getting picked off one by one.
It's easier to put all the blame on the candidate, than to stand up and say whatever shortcomings they may have had, he should have won that election.

"I'm pissed off because I had to choke back all the misgivings I've had about his campaign since he won the primaries."

He did just fine.
Wasn't my first or second choice but convinced me he would bring a good tone back to Washington, and start to fix so many things that Bush had messed up.
But Dems are in denial about the vote fraud that engulfs this country every election year since 2000.

"Kerry is responsible for the fate of this election."

We ALL are.
There should have been more protection of minority votes; this was Kerry's margin of victory. I have been saying that on DU since 2001 Bush would have lost by 3-5 million votes just by Blacks and Latinos alone...as long as those voters were protected from Repubs.
I begged people to go to the polls with their minority friends to thwart any bad behavior by poll workers.

This should have been going on throughout all 50 states.

Because it wasn't, Florida has counties where 68% of blacks voted for Bush.(Now you KNOW that's a LIE)as well as other wild anomalies.

Until Dems start facing the fact that Reps are taking away their votes deliberately, they will never see another White House.

I also suspect that it is the DLC behind the early concession, just as it was behind Gore's exit from the race before the primaries.
Des

[robbedvoter]

47. I stood behind ABB. He can still earn my respect if he fights

I don't require him getting the presidency for that, just telling everyone that we won, that our agenda is the majority and the electoral process is broken. If he doea that, I'll sing his praises.
But if he refers zat the stealing of our votes as "God is testing me" he is no better than W.

[Lexingtonian]

48. Yeah, join the club....

Such pissing and whining...I'd like to believe our side is largely deferent to reality, and Hope should have its due, but this mismatch some are making between the two is getting a bit silly. Leave the magical thinking to the other side, folks!

They're out there, all those people who cling to the past and pre-Enlightenment. At some point the Republicans were going to get them all. Better they get most efficient now, when they're at best 51%, than earlier when they were a larger proportion.

As for all the projection that it was somehow Kerry's fault, well- No. We got about 4 million more votes together than Gore did, which is above previous trend.

Our Party proves itself fit to rule when it decides not to dispense in excuses anymore, internally or externally. Kerry knew it and that's the meaning of giving the concession speech when the reality proved evident.

Exactly why is it a surprise that there was limited competence in a Rust Belt state (like Ohio) and a certain amount of corruption took place in Florida, or that the Texas vote was dominated by people talking 'morality' who meant lowering the standard of justice? This is the truth to the present society in those places- this is the reality of America, its regional "traditional values". If our side is to rule them, they demand to be conquered. So put on the political body armor, get a few more cases of political .50 cal ammunition in the vehicle, and Let's Roll. If there's fraud, let's root it out. If there are unregistered voters due to their forms getting tossed, let's find them and fix things up. If people can't get their minds around abortion or gay marriage as rights in this age, give them explanations and reasons rather than excuses and evasions. Tell the Christian Right grassroots that they've invested in an occultism and a corrupt theocracy, and write the manual that makes the argument irrefutable. If they can't do the math on the economy, make it explicable. If they think 'conservative' is what they are rather than reactionary, and 'liberal' is wrong and 'progressive' an oxymoron, figure out how to answer it. No evasions, no excuses.

Kerry is a good man and exemplary and Modern. Not perfect, not keen to exploit, but someone who I find perfectly trustworthy to do the right thing whenever it matters. The Americans who reject the Modern world had to reject him, and our score with them is that they forced us to put up with a fraud and a thief and a liar, and indirectly a murder, as President. They know it, however dimly and delusively or clearly. It was a vote reflecting themselves. It reflects that they are a dying, vicious, cultural group beyond actual morality in its need for power to somehow counteract its demise.
Our job is to provide the demise.

And we'll see John Kerry continue to do his part. Ever more clearly over the next two years, I trust my sources.
No excuses, no evasions, no apologies.

[MJDFlorida]

50. Be contructive!

I am a registered republican in Florida that campaigned for Senator Kerry. Why don't you all question the exit poll of 22% moral values for Bush(according to the media) and not assume it favored Kerry? I am Catholic and totally oppose Bush morally for being a liar, cheat and killer of 100,000 innocent people in Iraq!! My #1 answer on exit polls would have been moral values against Bush! Why don't you all fight the republican controlled voting machines and get us back to paper ballots? Why don't you make sure all Americans can walk in and out of a polling place in 10 minutes like us in the suburbs do? Why don't you fight for an investigation into the election fraud that obviously happened in Ohio and my state of Florida? I know in my heart that Senator Kerry won here! Why don't you guys put your complaints into time spent repairing our "fixed" elections, instead of putting down Senator Kerry? He certainly did his job admirably and instead of people running their mouths off, they need to get to work so we have a honest election in 2006. !

[robbedvoter]

52. That exist poll also shows W losing big. Kerry won - yet he is

allowing them claim their agenda is the man date. No leadership.

[newyawker99]

70. Hi MJDFlorida!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[fwiff]

53. I am proud to have supported Kerry. And I'd do it again.

This guy is a fighter. I don't know what the hell he is doing now, but he has never been idle in his life- and I don't think he is now.

I think he was an excellent candidate (not perfect, but who is?) and would be a helluva president.

Whatever he is working on now, it's not over. And even if he doesn't win, they're not going to get away scot-free.
He said off mike that they were a lying bunch of crooks, didn't he?

Anyway, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt; I feel he earned that, and I'll reserve judgement until I hear the WHOLE story.

[flaminbats]

56. any other candidate would have lost..

after the Democratic convention Kerry had nothing..no massive lead in the polls, no momentum, and very little media coverage. But Dukakis had all of this and so did Clinton, except Clinton used these advantages to win the election.

Kerry faced many of the same problems that McGovern and Mondale faced, but Kerry was able to win votes where possible. No campaign will ever be perfect, but Kerry has destroyed the myth that 9/11 made Republicans unbeatable.

[Skittles]

57. I didn't think he was the best candidate

but after the debates I was sold. Republicans own the White House, Congress, the Supreme Court, the media and the voting machines yet their boy barely squeaked by. I said many times there was no way in hell the necons would let go.

[DemBones DemBones]

58. I'm SO MAD at Kerry. He caved before the polls had been closed

24 hours in any precinct. We supported him wholeheartedly and he let us down.

People worked hard for him and gave him a lot of money, most of us money we had other uses for. He promised not to concede too soon but then he did just that. Why are you NOT mad at him? Are you a masochist, perhaps?

[MeanAndGreen]

59. Kerry was simply NotBush for many of us

Now that the election has been blown many should have the freedom to speak their minds about the NotBush they agreed to vote for.

Remember, the deal was this election was the last time real Progressives vote for the lesser Progressive. Time to get to work.