Several presidents stand as great destroyers: By 2008, will Bush be one?

[DerekG]

Unfortunately, the last century was known for being the age of the megadeaths; it would be safe to say that several of our own fearless leaders will be remembered as three of its great destroyers:

1. Harry Truman (Stalking ground: Japan, Korea)
2. Lyndon Johnson (Stalking ground: Vietnam)
3. Richard Nixon (Stalking ground: Indochina)


Despite carrying the label as "worst president," Bush hasn't come close to accruing the same numbers--an estimated 100,000 Iraqis and 4,000-12,000 people of Afghanistan. He's got a lot of catching up to do, but when considering the long-term goal of PNAC, coupled with the seeds of Christian Dominionism, Dubya might just surpass his more even-tempered predecessors. If we don't do something, the next four years are going to be one hell of a show.

As it stands, Bush is just one more addition to a smaller-scale rogues gallery that includes Andrew Jackson (Indian killer extraordinaire), Theodore Roosevelt (the first neo-conservative), Woodrow Wilson (needlessly sent our children to die in the cauldron of Europe), Ronald Reagan (cut quite the bloody swathe through Latin America), "Poppy" Bush (Gulf War I) and Bill Clinton (8 years of ongoing bombings and barbarous sanctions).

What say you--will the present war criminal leave a big imprint on history, or will he be just another haunting footnote?

[Parche]

1. Harry Truman

He should not be on the list, He ended the Pacific war
And went into Korea with the UN

[DerekG]

4. He most certainly should

Note: I don't want this to turn into a "Should Truman have dropped the bomb?" thread.

Everyone in the supreme command, from Eisenhower to MacArthur to Nimitz, were appalled at Truman's decision to atomize Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Over the decades, there is more and more evidence to suggest that the issue was not over surrender or a looming invasion of Japan; rather, there were geo-political motivations concerning the intimidation of Stalin and the fruits that would come with the future Japanese Reconstruction.

As for Korea, I care not whether Truman organized a grand coalition to unleash the "police action"; the efforts of men like I.F. Stone prove the war was not fought over national security, and was as barbarous as the Vietnamese conflict ten years later.

[Parche]

7. Truman

I see it different, even though my favorite Admiral Halsey
said that we should not have dropped it.

I say we should have, and Truman was exactly right in doing it
It saved thousands of American lives, POW's and others

[Bucky]

5. Amen. Hiroshima/Nagasaki were tough calls, but were not war crimes

Vietnam was full of war crimes. The atomic bombing at the end of WW2, altho certainly something that can be criticized, were not done for the sake of destroying stuff. There was a military usefulness to wiping out the military production centers in those cities and the atomic bombs were seen as work savers, not terror weapons. It's not like those were the only two cities leveled during that war. Tokyo, Dresden, London saw extensive damage done by deliberate bombing.

[DerekG]

6. The truth is much darker

Yes, World War II was rife with terrorist campaigns, but I single out the two bombings due to their serving as the harbinger for the future Cold War and an American empire on the rise, not as a necessary step to defeat an opponent that had already buckled.

Little Boy and Fat Man were, in fact, terror weapons, employed against civilian populations. The Manhatten Project was among the most ambitious and costly endeavors in recorded history; Truman and his warlords weren't about to let anything like olive branches (offered as early as May 1945) to get in the way of the most grand of experiments.

How odd that the first bomb was detonated days before the Soviets were to enter the conflict......

[Parche]

8. Truman

What would you have suggested

Let the kamikaze's keep rolling in, damaging and sinking
Navy ships, POW's that were being killed in savage attacks,
and also from disease and malnutrition,
They had their chance to surrender, they did not
So Truman did the right thing and dropped the bombs,

They should have never attacked Pearl Harbor then

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Count on it. He will overreach to the point where

all hell will break loose, and all we can do is sit by and watch the train wreck.

[klook]

3. Don't forget McKinley (Philippines) - n/t

[__Inanna__]

9. All others will pale by comparison

Shrub will be the worst and our undoing.

Things are getting very scary. If you don't believe me, read on.

http://www.conservativeusa.org/action.htm#cra

This link includes info on the Constitution Restoration Act, pending in the legislature, which will override the Supreme Court's actions and promote Federalism. Also, shrub plans to unveil a plan to mental health screening of Americans next month, with the goal of getting people on powerful drugs. It's mentioned in the link above as well. No, I am NOT a conservative, but was looking for info to see if the CRA had passed. If the CRA passes, the implications will make this election look like a walk in the park.

Sorry for bringing this up here, but I want to get the word out and I am a newbie and can't do my own posts yet.

[kostya]

10. Give DU money if you're anxious to post threads. (grin)