Where is the damn TANK VIDEO?

[DireStrike]

People keep referencing it and nobody links, it isn't in any of the main posts.

Please don't respond with "yeah" or "I dunno".

[htuttle]

1. Here

http://la.indymedia.org/uploads/tanks-on-la-streets.mov

[DireStrike]

3. thank you.

[alittlelark]

2. here is a link

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/118865_comment.php...

[DireStrike]

4. thank you.

[Liberal Mommy]

5. Here ya go

I have the link and screenshots on my webpage

[ewagner]

6. Thank you

I'm still not sure who the tank belongs too or who was manning it.

[eleny]

8. jeez, 2 tanks for maybe 20 people?

[fryguy]

11. was that for real?

the LAPD called out tanks? didn't take the bushies long to go into full facist mode, did it?

[henslee]

7. hard to believe it happened. Never posted in LBN. No google lnks as of

1 pm.

[RivetJoint]

10. I'm with you

I need some confirmation this happened.

[RebelOne]

19. Someone just now posted it in LBN

even though it is not the latest breaking news anymore.

[henslee]

22. and it just got moved by mod.

[fryguy]

9. never mind

just saw the report and still images...never mind

[Chimpanzee]

12. I wonder why everyone was yelling at the poor guys in the

tank who were ordered to go there and couldn't possibly stop the war if they wanted to (and they probably do want to).

[Dhalgren]

14. Because the "poor guys" in the tanks are the representatives

of the police state. At some point the actual people on the ground, doing the criminal business of their masters have to be held accountable for their actions. When NG and police are ordered to fire into a crowd of protesters (and this is coming), you will not be able to say, "Well, those poor troops were just doing what they were told to do. You have to support the troops." Somewhere down the line the "troops" are going to have to decide whether they support the people or the government, because the two are not the same - not any more...

[Ready4Change]

13. Technicalities. AFVs, not tanks.

Tanks have treads. AFVs (Armoured Fighting Vehicles) have wheels, albeit 6 or 8 rather than 4 like cars or trucks.

From the video, it looks like these were positioned should matters get out of control, but they were spotted by protestors and became a source of further unrest. So they were moved, probably to another location out of protestors eyesight.

BTW, I was at an event in DC long ago. As I attended I saw it getting out of hand and left the scene. (It was a free music concert, and the crowd started getting destructive.) On the way out I saw some DC mounted police sitting on their horses a short ways off, also out of eyesight. As I walked past they got a call and started riding trotting off to break up the crowd.

All this said, calling AFVs out for the videos protest seems overly cautious. I take it they weren't put into use?

[Dhalgren]

16. They were "used",

it's called "intimidation"...

[Ready4Change]

21. Depends. Where they driven up and parked at the protest site?

Or where they nearby, and then the protestors gathered around them? From the video and pictures this wasn't clear to me.

If they were driven up and parked at the protest site, then yes, I'd agree it was intimidation. However, if they were over on another block, and the protest moved to them, I'd say they were an (overly paranoid) precaution.

Any info? Thanks in advance.

[alittlelark]

24. The vid doesn't show them driving up,

but appears to show them driving away.

[Ready4Change]

28. Looking at the video background I couldn't tell.

It did show them driving away, but not arriving. I looked at the background (across the street, etc...) but on a quick review didn't see anything positive.

Not saying they didn't park right there. Just daying I can't tell from the vid.

[Dhalgren]

25. According to the link, above,

they were driven up to the side of the building where the protest was taking place. They were (according to the link) directly in front of the protesters. Later they were moved a distance away. There could have been a mix-up in instructions, but the affect was the same as intentional. I doubt seriously that these armored vehicles were actually going to fire on the protesters, but the willingness to play the "suppression" card should make everyone take stock of our situation.

[Ready4Change]

30. Ah, found this said in this link.

http://liberalamerican.org/blog/ copied from above. Says they drove around the block twice, then parked infront of the protest.

I'd be interested to know if they were called in or not.

Lower weight military vehicles are driven on public streets, from base to base or to maintenace facilities. Whie doing so they are under one persons command, and if he got interested in the protest he might have chosen this action on his own. It could get him in trouble with his higher ups.

That's another reason protesters should take a moment to engage the vehicles personel in conversation. Yes, they might have had the "damn hippies" mentality. However, I know plenty of people in the military who would have stopped to read your signs and give you a thumbs up.

I've talked to a lot of military people who are not pleased with recent events. A kind word, rather than a scornful one, could work wonders.

[tabasco]

17. Not quite ...

There are both wheeled and tracked infantry fighting vehicles. The primary infantry fighting vehicle is the Bradley, which is tracked. The newer Javelin is wheeled and the Marine LAV is wheeled.

[Ready4Change]

18. True, but those in the video clearly were not tanks.

But I agree, I was too vague, as there are plenty of non-tanks which have treads.

I've also got to admit, I'm not up enough on AFVs to be able to identify which type are in the videos and pictures.

[Q]

23. Not tanks?

- It's rather weird that you would even bother to make a distinction. It's definately a MILITARY vehicle and it shouldn't be on the streets of America.

[Ready4Change]

27. Many police forces have AFVs, particularly in large cities.

SWAT teams, etc...

Now, complaining about these being MILITARY is valid. Were they regular Army or Marines, or were they from a National Guard unit? Did anyone find out?

The reason I'm going on about this is that these types of inaccuracies are used by right wing naysayers to discount or deflect the effects of left wing statements. They'll say "These nutcases can't even tell a tank from an armored car! No wonder Clinton could brainwash them so easily." I can not tell you how often I've heard this technique used, and it works. It sickens me, but it works.

Get accurate, and protest the REAL problem.

Were these US ARMY or Marines vehicles?
Were they National Guard?
If they were called in, WHO called them?

Did any of the protestors converse with the vehicles personel and find out? You should have, as you might find many soldiers to be more sympathetic your your cause than you might imagine.

[glarius]

15. It sort of made me think of Tienaman (sp?) Square in China

where the student stood in front of the oncoming tank!....Uuuggghhhh

[maveric]

20. Didnt Frank Rizzo do things like this regularly in Philly during the 60's

and 70's? He even had helicopters drop bombs on houses where fugitives were hiding.

[Catherine Vincent]

26. links posted doesn't work for me

[Liberal Mommy]

29. Just talked to Frank at ANSWER

He did confirm the presence of the "tanks" at the protest. He didn't seem to feel like it was that big of a deal. I guess it bothers me more than him? Maybe they are used to this.