Framing the "Voter Irregularity" issue. *cough*

[mzmolly]

We need to approach this from an angle of "voter confidence" regardless of whether or not fraud occurred.

When I called Kerry's senate office today they referred me to the DNC to report "fraud." I said this isn't about fraud, it's about the integrity of the system. I also told them that as far as I knew ONLY John Kerry could order a recount in the suspect Opti-Scan counties.

I stated that I called my local reps as well, and that they should treat my call like any other.

Here is how I approached it:

1. The story is out there that problems occurred.

2. We have to investigate to find out what happened regardless because people are losing faith in our Democracy and this hurts the DEMS in coming elections. It's not about John Kerry, it's about US.

In the end we will find one of three things:

A) No fraud occurred, and the system really works when all is said and done. :eyes:

B) The system we use needs an overhaul because the voting process is in dire need of reform.

C) Fraud occurred and steps need to be taken to prevent it in the future and prosecute those responsible.

Make sense, cause I'm tired? So, when we contact our Representatives and/or Kerry's office ;) we have to frame this as a "voter confidence" issue.

:hi:

[fwiff]

1. Yes, and this is how to frame it to the media.

Obviously, they're not bright enough to figure it out for themselves.

We point out all the 'discrepancies' and ask to verify how these things can happen in such an advanced democracy where very vote is supposed to count.
*So we can fix them*;-)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

2. Makes perfect sense

I also agree with you. This is the angle I have used in all the letters I have written.

[Pirate Smile]

3. Thanks for starting this thread MZMOLLY. I just saw your response to

my other post. I had to get my munchkins down to bed.

[mzmolly]

4. Sure, feel free to add some "clarity"

Off to ZZZZ myself. :hi:

Night.

[PATRICK]

5. "Confidence"

is their key sales pitch word and that is taken from reforms pitched by the league of Women Voters and the ACLU. That and the "ease" that is supposed to attract and assure new voters. They took those words and those groups and ran up the "con" game into an avalanche of blind acceptance.

The simplest arguments against this horror run counter to the nice easy world these dupes sold to others. For them all the values they entrusted to these swindlers are threatened by the truth and their embarrassment. The simple concepts fall in very easy areas themselves. Individually and in ever multiplying possibilities of abuse and exposures of actual problems they somehow never reach critical mass, never stop the media and the buyers from sliding away from the point over and over and over again.

Bev's monkey hacker demo film and other visual aids are practically moron proof, but no one gets the main point. They keep sliding away. They seem to be an alarming group of people either incapable of comprehending the computer or human nature(especially their own). Or crooks.

AND too many people don't even get the presentation, just the sliding on the nice, great features of the successful salesmen. Private code, flim flam certification abused and irregular and violated during glitch repairs and "updates" or repairs or outside connections. A lousy, complicated code. strangely unnecessary and complex and more insecure than ever. Loss of concrete records, vulnerable vaporized votes that can be reformed to the imagination. The system is inherently wrong in concept in its application as replacement- not aid- to paper ballot auditable voting. I am not a computed expert but it seems so simple that the "assurances" and scoffing by its defenders seems completely suspicious. "Trust us". Then it gets worse with occurrences obvious and proof impossible.

Next step: invisible voters online, where security is the final scam. Even the soldiers turned down this scam but they made their registrations and ballots so hard they will be more willing to surrender their vote to this new marvel next time. The 1000,0000 vote experiment did not happen this time for lack of "confidence". Soon there will be no choice but to relax and enjoy the illusion.

[Pirate Smile]

6. You are right. We need to take control over how we frame the issue

when we are contacting people so that we don't discredit ourselves.

This isn't about John Kerry. It is about the integrity of our voting systems and the voters having faith in the validity of our elections. We need to downplay the partisan angle.

The people thinking their votes don't matter because the fix is in is so incredibly damaging especially if people are being asked to wait hours and hours to vote. When the hell did voting became an endurance test. That is one of the most offensive things to me.

No one of either party could argue against a thorough review of problems with the voting process. They would look bad, not us.

Republicans believe that high turnout helped them this year so perhaps they would also be interested in making sure votes cast actually are counted instead of the standard that they benefit by suppressing the vote (not that they would ever acknowledge that).

[Pirate Smile]

7. Whoops, wrong spot.

[Redleg]

8. I agree with your thoughtful post.

We really do need to fix this sorry election system, regardless whether Kerry wins or not. I do think that if Kerry ends up getting the votes in either Ohio or Florida, the Rethuglicans will even consider reform.

[SouthPasadenaDem]

9. This is good.

This is roughly similar to what I've been trying to tell the Dems on my neighborhood block captain route in the past several days. It has the added advantage of giving people some control and focus back after the shock of the election.

[newyawker99]

25. Hi SouthPasadenaDem!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Donna Zen]

10. How I framed the issue:

Perhaps this letter will be taken as just another partisan rant by someone who wanted to live in a country with a stable foreign policy, better healthcare, and meaningful fiscal reforms; but you would be mistaken. This letter is an attempt to clarify the issue at the heart of the recent discussion of what went wrong when America went to the polls 2004. Specifically, I’m concerned about the honesty, and verifiability of voting in our country. After all, without a system that works better than the current one, we cannot sustain our democracy. Is it partisan to want to protect and defend the Constitution? I hope not.

With all of the reporting, the little there has been, and the uproar, the word “conspiracy” gets tossed around without let up. Well, to take the conspiracy out of the equation, give up the thought about who won or lost. Focus instead on did the system work.

Before the election even took place there was plenty of evidence that things were going wrong. The usual hacks were successfully suppressing minority votes, throwing out registrations, and going to court to keep Americans from voting. These are the same people who keep shouting about patriotism and defending our freedoms. Sad, isn’t it? (Ask them about their actions and their promoting of such a flawed system, and then step back while they spit the word “conspiracy” at you.)

When the big day finally arrived, many votes either didn’t add up or added up too conveniently. Long lines left people who wanted to exercise their right to vote standing in the rain for hours. Boxes of “spoiled” and provisional ballots filled the dusty backrooms. Does this seem like a great country expressing it’s great ideal: one person, one vote?

Voting in America demands two simple precepts: the vote must be secret and the vote must be verifiable. Simple but tricky. The machines can spit out a receipt at an ATM and be verifiable because your bank account is no secret. What a machine cannot do is produce a verifiable secret.

Could we come up with a system that satisfies both requirements. Absolutely. That is not the question; the question is do we have the will? Considering the media’s usual attempts at sensationalism, and the political posturing, I am afraid the answer is a resounding “No.”

Now I have a confession to make: I vote with a number two pencil on a piece of paper which is counted by my neighbors who I trust. Heck, I’ve even volunteered and done the job myself. I can assure you, my vote is handled with care. My town is about the size of any polling place.

But America’s votes by in large have lost their importance. By the time the next so-called election day rolls around, the exercise of machine voting will have completely erased all attempts to be “verifiable.” Just push the same button twice and the same answer will reappear. Magic. Good for the overcharging vendors but bad for democracy.

Which brings us back to the purpose of my letter. I am writing to tell you that the path we are currently traveling on election day, will bring you a country that will never see another Lincoln or Jefferson or Kennedy. Not having the press megaphone, there is nothing I can do to save this situation other than write this sorry letter. But in the end, each and every journalist and anchor person and political spinner will lose right along with me.

The voting system in our country doesn’t work, and as of today, things are not looking as if the people with the power to effect change care to save themselves.

[Pobeka]

11. 2 thumbs up, WAY up.

Voter confidence, yeah!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[snot]

12. Voting machines in Iraq

I'm a new user, pls excuse if this isn't the best place to ask this. But has anyone seen anything on what kind of voting machines or system will be used in Iraq?

I've been wondering why the admin. seems so not worried about the outcome.

[mzmolly]

20. From what I gather, people are a bit afraid to leave their houses in Iraq.

I imagine the system will be more "primitive" and accurate however.

[PatsFan2004]

13. Good post! Our country needs confidence in our election

system. Some in the news media seem to be picking up on this theme with regard to the fraud discussion.

[Jersey Devil]

14. Yes, & I thought Olbermann was hip to that tonight in how he framed the

story. It is the integrity of the system to insure all votes are counted. Until there is actual proof of fraud we should harp on the many mistakes that could have been machine caused.

[prairierose]

15. Here is the letter I just sent to my congressional delegation...

There were a few adjustments for personal notes etc and I have to thank mzmolly for the ending of the letter.:hi:

If you feel like using any of this...feel free.

...But really, I have more important things to talk about. That sounds ominous doesn't it? Now, I know that many people think I'm crazy but I really haven't joined the tinfoil hat brigade yet, even though that is what most of the major media and the opposition are calling anyone who questions the outcome of the election.

I'm writing to you today because many people in the country are very upset by the mounting evidence that voting irregularities were rampant in many states, especially where evoting machines that did not provide a paper trail were used.

This does not even involve anecdotal evidence of places where voters were harrassed or intimidated.

If we can no longer believe in our electoral system, then what kind of country are we? I have had contact with many people around the country who are convinced that our system is broken & we are no longer a republic. I am one of those people. Even though, I still have faith in the electoral system in our state, I have no faith in the electoral process where evoting machines are used. It is also my understanding that under the HAVA legislation, that all states must use evoting machines by the 2006 election cycle.

Are we all crazy? Would you do business with a bank that did not give you a receipt for a deposit or withdrawal? I think not. Why would we entrust the most sacred responsibility we have as citizens to a machine that can not print a receipt that verfies the vote & makes a recount possible if it is necessary?

I have been beating my head against the wall for months asking this question and wondering why our elected representatives were not vocally concerned about this issue. I did not expect to hear about it in mainstream media because they no longer carry news. But I was appalled by the apparent lack of interest in the subject by the DNC and other Democratic leaders.

Now is the time to act for the future of this country, please join with others in asking for an investigation of this important issue.

We have to investigate the apparent voting problems to find out what happened in this election regardless of the outcome because people are losing faith in our Democracy and this hurts everyone in coming elections. It's not about John Kerry, it's about U.S.

In the end we will find one of three things:

A) No fraud occurred, and the system really works when all is said and done.

B) The system we use needs an overhaul because the voting process is in dire need of reform.

C) Fraud occurred and steps need to be taken to prevent it in the future and prosecute those responsible.

The most important thought here is that if people lose faith in the voting system; it will never work again.

Thank you for your time.

[Carolab]

16. We need a receipt that we can check

The problem is within the tabulators and the central computers, where the data can be hacked/changed unchecked. The receipt should correlate with a website or a certified printout kept at the precinct level that shows how your vote was actually recorded. This would not violate privacy or cause fears of vote selling if each voter was required to submit ID to retrieve the receipt and check the records. Or, they could go to the precinct and prove ID and their votes could be looked up by name at a precinct computer--that no one else could see. It's not enough to have a receipt that gets printed and checked and dropped into a box. The votes need to be verifiable after the fact.

[mzmolly]

21. Great letter!

:hi:

WELCOME TO DU!

[prairierose]

24. Thanks mzmolly....

:hi: backatcha!

Apparently my brain works late at night! Why, I don't know but I was fairly happy with it when I finished. I have not yet gotten any kind of reply from anyt of the Crogressional delegation but I think I'm going to send copies of the letter to various media outlets too.

I really think the issue here is voter confidence in the integrity of the system. We need to keep pounding that idea to everyone we can.

[newyawker99]

26. Hi prairierose!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[prairierose]

29. Thanks

I've been lurking for a while but decided to start posting when the registration opened again.

:toast: backatcha

[Cronus Protagonist]

17. Voter confidence, sure, but how about "Vote Munching Machines"

Sorry about that groaner, but to gain attention, it needs to be catchy. Anyone got some better framed talking points?

Election Vending Machine - you put money in, you win the election...

[Pirate Smile]

18. kick

[ClassWarrior]

19. You are so right - this IS a voter confidence issue.

That's how I've been framing it too - and a JK win as a bonus. But I never miss a chance to mention "allegations of vote FRAUD."

NGU.

[goclark]

22. Got it, "Voter Confidence Issue" it will be

just so we keep working to find the compelling items that point to the lack of confidence. :think:

Now, how will we get this sweet message out?

Do we believe that Matt the rethug Laur will get out our message?

Will anyone hear us? Will they think they have tucked us in bed for the night?

I want to believe that because we are speaking in "Nice Speak" that the Media will be beating down our doors to find out what we think should be done to stop Rove from doing this again.:think:

Maybe we should add the word compelling... "And there is compelling evidence that there just might be, heaven forbid, Voter Fraud(say the word Fraud in a whisper.)

[mzmolly]

23. .

[pointsoflight]

27. Completely agree with your take.

[meow2u3]

28. What to say when Bushbots accuse you of being a conspiracy theorist

because you want to investigate election fraud:

You're saying I'm a conspiracy theorist because the media are covering up the truth that the vote was hacked. This is OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, plain and simple--not just election fraud!