MUST-READ! Christian blogger responds to DU thread and explains EVERYTHING

[PresidentErnestTBass]

Christopher Knight of The Knight Shift blog at http://theknightshift.blogspot.com wrote an article criticizing Jerry Falwell this past Saturday and I posted it here. Knight was sent the link to the thread. Yesterday on Democratic Underground he posted a response to it himself.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1335010#1341107

IT'S VERY LONG but worth its own thread. Knight is an anti-abortion born again Christian who was on Free Republic for a long time. He's very conservative on lots of things but he took the time to write a very long post warning DU people about Christian Reconstructionism and that it probably fixed this election. If you want to see why some Christians are so evil and follow Bush like fools, he explains everything here. Two exerpts:

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Christians are called to forsake the riches and glories of this world, and sacrifice this flesh's desires, so that we might share the love of Christ with others. How is it that the paragon of Christian identity is now considered to be a man who apparently thinks nothing of sacrificing others for his own sense of grandeur, so that he can be "making history" as he once boasted?

I'm so disappointed in many of my fellow professing Christians and the things they are now doing in this country, that I honestly wonder when - not if, when - God will punish us for such unprecedented pride and condescension. They should KNOW, after coming to SEE, how so unlike a Christ-like spirit it is that Bush has. Yet they care not how weak, and even nonexistent, his testimony as Christian really is. It only matters that Bush has spoken all the right words to their itching ears. In doing so they fall to a great delusion, that they might believe a lie instead of holding to the truth.

The truth of it is, whether they admit or even understand it at all, is that they look at Bush as God's gift to them to achieve one of two goals: either domination over this country and ultimately the world, or the destruction of the world. They want Bush to either throw open the doors for them to take over everything, or step up the timetable for the Rapture so that they don't have to worry about pesky things like showing the love of Christ to the poor wretched sinners anymore... and won't Heaven be that much sweeter knowing that there's at least one damnable soul from this world roasting in Hell forever, to say nothing of the millions that they secretly harbor hatred toward?

I believe the "end-times" motivation is what's led a lot of the so-called "evangelical Christians" to pull for Bush no matter what, even if it was only at a subconcious level. They believe that the Second Coming is not only literal but imminent... as in within the next few days or months or years. And they want to play a part in it. Helping Bush out, they will hold, is actually helping Jesus come that much sooner. It's the same unconfessed rationale as to why it is that many evangelicals hold the Jewish people in such high regard: it's not that they really LOVE them, it's that they can't wait to hurry them back to the land that God promised Abraham... so that most of them can be destroyed as part of end-time prophecy.

As a Christian, I do believe that Jesus Christ will someday return. But I've also come to understand this: that when He does, it will be in perfect and complete fulfillment of scripture. At the same time, it will be in a way that is unlike ANYTHING that has entered into our imaginations. That's the way God has always worked: He keeps His promises, but when He does, He does it far wilder than anything we ever had in mind. Who are we to insist that God redeem this world as we believe it should be redeemed?

If that's not the acme of arrogance, I've no idea what is. But for all the fanaticism that this mindset entails, it is not the thing that should immediately concern you and me, and a lot of others... including honest Christians.

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Christian Reconstructionism, or Dominion Theology, is a cancer upon the human mind in the same way that radical Islam infected the Taliban, or agrarian utopianism drove the Khmer Rouge. You could call it "radical Christianity", but there is nothing Christian about it save in name only. Its goal is simple: re-fashion America and the world under a new order. One that bases its entire existence upon a VERY literal interpretation of the Old Testament that not even the Hebrews of old followed. Theirs would be a world without pity, where the most casual swearing out of thoughtless frustration will be met with being stoned to death. Where it is not so much that a young girl might be burdened with the uncertainty of what to do with her life after unexpectedly becoming pregnant, because that wouldn't really be something to worry about at all... not when she'll be KILLED for her transgression (whether it's before or after the child is born is something I've heard varying opinions of from these people, BTW). It would be a world where slavery is re-instituted as a biblically-viable economic system. Where little children can be executed for talking out of line.

Someone once defined evil as being "judgement without compassion." These people want to institute the harshness of Law without tempering it with any Love. If there's anything more fitting of being considered "evil" than this, I've yet to see it. These people will, as a religion professor told us one day, "pave a path straight to Auschwitz."

These aren't my own thoughts and theories and notions, friends. I've spoken personally with REAL people, some of them seemingly the nicest folks you can imagine, who ACTUALLY want to do this to America.

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Mega-reading, it will take a while but well worth it.

[Still_Notafraid]

1. I love this line

Someone once defined evil as being "judgement without compassion."

[ogsball]

2. I like his thought process

The mistake many Evangelical Christians make is that the Kingdom of God is a literal place not a spiritual state. Israel has made the same mistake for 5000 years.

Don't get me wrong we should fight to establish structures of social justice and freedom here on earth but until Christ comes in the end then this is just our temporary home.

[PresidentErnestTBass]

4. Just nominated it for front page

because its maybe the best look into the might of ultra right wing Christians that I've found. Knight told me in an email that he understood all about them because he used to be one of them.

[The Straight Story]

3. As a 'conservative' christian myself I agree so far

(will read more as time permits).

I have for a long time said that Jesus did not command his followers to get elected and change the government, but to change the hearts and minds of others so that they will do what is right - you cannot force someone to do right else god would have done so already (and I have a whole long theory on god and why things occured the way they did to some extent).

I look more to the amish in these things to a great extent. They don't need the government and don't get overly involved with it (there are different sects and such, so I cannot truly make broad statements about all). They keep to themselves and help one another, they don't need the welfare system, social security, et al (not to say some don't use the systems in place). Abortion, gays, televsion, porn - not their concern as they choose not to use those freedoms.

[idiosyncratic]

5. Thanks for the link. I like the things he writes. eom

[Kimber Scott]

6. How can one be a Christian and toe the Old Testament line?

Wouldn't that make one Jewish? I thought Christ came to free men of the bond of the old law? Christ didn't stone women, or execute children. (Not that Jewish people of Jewish faith do that now.)

I am not a Christian, anymore. I'm an agnostic. However, I respect Christ's teachings and I agree with the writer - if Christ were to return, I would expect him to do it in his own time - not according to the timing of some hypocritical cultists.

[Joe Turner]

11. That's a very good question

I've noticed a subtle change in Christianity in general that extends even to Catholics in the last 15 years or so. Until recently the Old Testament never held a prominent position in any traditional Christian faith. It was always the teachings of Christ in the New Testament that was solely emphasized.

As a kid growing up in the Catholic Church even the Nuns taught us that the Old Testament was pretty much folklore that was not to be considered literally true. Yet in recent times the Old Testament has made a big comeback and the shocking thing is that many Christians, even Catholics take the Old Testament every bit as seriously as the New Testament, some even more so.

I honestly don't know how or why this has happened but it is real.

Like you I'm agnostic also. From a very early age I always had a kind of distrust of religion. IMO no one knows how or why this universe of ours was created. There probably is a higher power involved and if so, it is far beyond our ability to understand it. One thing I am confident of, if there is a God, it could care less if we worship it or not and I seriously doubt God is well described by any of the world's religions.

[highplainsdem]

15. I'm guessing that change has been due to authoritarians in the

churches, who can find much more to support authoritarian thinking in the Old Testament than the New. And I would not be surprised if it's eventually discovered that conservative think tanks have had a lot to do with this shift.

[Mojambo]

7. Very worthwhile read.

Thank you.

[RevCheesehead]

8. It is idolatry - pure and simple.

We so much want to find simple answers to complex questions of life. And for evangelicals, THE solution is Jesus. But few want to ask how Jesus affects their own life, but instead want Jesus to affect everyone else: to "make THEM become like ME."

But the call of Jesus is one of radical discipleship: to DENY onesself, rather than to embolden one's world-view; to take up HIS cross, and follow HIM. Many of these people ignore Jesus' call to feed the hungry, to care for the poor and oppressed - and instead, place their hopes in political kingdoms. Jesus did not come to free Israel from Roman rule, or to restore the Jewish kingdom. Jesus made clear that his Kingdom was NOT of this world...it was unlike anything anyone had ever seen before.

A seminary professor once warned our class (too many years ago!) that Darbyism, or the Armageddon/Rapture people, would, if not checked, become VERY dangerous, because of their need for simplistic answers, as well as their incessant need to see the end-times fulfilled. But Jesus himself said that NO person knows when that time will take place - not even he, himself - but only God knows.

IDOLATRY is placing someone, some thing, or one's self, in the place of God. Idolators misuse and misquote scripture itself in order to achieve their own purposes. Those who follow idols are deceived, and their eyes WILL be opened some day. But, woe to those who allow themselves to become idols, for they will incur judgment by the Lord.

Jesus, on the other hand, did not seek a mandate or popular vote, but instead was executed as a criminal of the state. Radical discipleship means placing your very life ahead of your own desires.

May God have mercy on us all.

[pacalo]

9. Beautifully expressed. It's definitely worth the read, I agree. :)

[PresidentErnestTBass]

12. kick to top for morning people

[PresidentErnestTBass]

10. kick to top

eom

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. You can not follow Jesus

if you choose to follow Bush.

The neochristians are actually followers of Paul of Tarsus. He hijacked christianity back in the early days and the teachings of Jesus have been subverted every since.

BTW: We are the second coming. I can't wait for when the neochristians find out.

[highplainsdem]

16. Agree with you about Paul's influence.

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. If Saul

hadn't become Paul, the world would have been a better place.

[htuttle]

19. Give Emperor Constantine some credit too

I don't think he Christianized Rome as much as he Romanized Christianity.

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. Once christianity became a state religion

all the other flavors of christians were deemed heretics and slaughtered. Nice bunch of folks we're dealing with here.

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. Worth

thinking about.

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Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/

[SleepingDragon]

17. This is being discussed in another thread. See

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1335010&mesg_id=1335010

Christopher Knight posts a more detailed account of the problem here.

This is a very important post. Keep it kicked.