Kerry and Abortion - was the problem that he didn't take a clear stand?

[Eric J in MN]

Kerry's postion on abortion is that he believes life starts at conception, but the govt. shouldn't restrict abortion becauae that would be imposing faith.

I wonder if that was too much on-the-fence.

Maybe we would be better with a candidate who clearly says
EITHER:

A) I don't believe that life starts at conception, and I will protect the right to choose, while the Republicans are trying to criminalize abortion.

OR

B) I'm against abortion and I want to end federal funding.

[sangh0]

1. On the fence??

It's the position of the Democratic Party for DECADES!!!

Nevermind. I just noticed who wrote the OP

[Eric J in MN]

8. Not every Democrat says he believes life starts at conception (nt)

nt

[sangh0]

12. That's been the position for DECADES!!!

,

[Eric J in MN]

14. I don't recall Clinton or Gore saying they thought life

begins at conception.

[sangh0]

16. Work harder at being clueless

I still see some signs of intelligence

[MaryH]

2. I don't think it was abortion that did it.

He was very clear that he did not intend to overturn Roe vs Wade.

I think it was the combination of the gay movement and the abortion thing that got the Fundies so scared. Rumor got going that we were going to ban the Bible and that kind of thing. They thought Satan was getting ready to take over the country.

[Trahurn]

3. What A Load Of Crap

This election was not lost by Kerry position on abortion. My but some of you people are literally desperate to find some thing or someone to blame this loss on. Try "fraud." That seems to make the most sense to me.

[dogtag]

4. His stance was clear enough for anyone who actually listened.

I think the next time around our position should be that ANY legislation of any kind regarding abortion in any of its forms can only be proposed by women and voted on by women.

That should put an end to the issue once and for all.

[lovedems]

5. At one point I heard a fundie say

"He thinks life begins at conception but is pro-choice so he believes in MURDER!" (Gasp!)

Do you think it is necessary to state your belief on "when life begins"? IMO, it is enough to say I am pro-choice. My one and only complaint with the democrats this year was qualifying their statements with, "I am against it but..."

If you ask me the democrats should say we are pro-choice because PRIVACY is a moral issue and we are pro gay marriage because EQUALITY is a moral issue. If you don't qualify your statements, you don't have much to explain. It seems pretty clear.

[kikiek]

6. I think he was very clear. I also think he is right. The govt doesn't

pay for abortion on demand anyways. Here is the link that describes what it will http://archive.aclu.org/library/funding.html as you can see it is in very few cases.

[Eric J in MN]

10. Thanks. That was informative (nt)

nt

[sangh0]

13. NOw let's see if the info takes

or if tomorrow we'll be seeing more anti-abortion threads from him.

[Eric J in MN]

15. During the campaign, I spoke to people face-to-face

who were reluctant to vote for Kerry because they're "pro-life."

[merh]

7. No - there was no f**kin problem - he won the damned election

stop trying to find faults with the candidate.

Geez - if you hate the fact he conceded, that is another topic, but please recognize that he won, they stole it from him.

He received the popular vote (if the damned thing wasn't rigged) the exit polls were right. He was the popular candidate.

The party does need to grow some balls, it is not brave enough or strong enough to stand up to the rethugs, but Kerry won.

His abortion stance (PRO CHOICE) was right, the party platforms are right, stop believing the RNC bullshit.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. In my view Kerry should not have been nice about this one, especially

in the townhall meeting debate. He decided to be respectful of this argument and needed to call the pro-life movement on their hypocrisy AND clock the girl who asked the question. Democrats need to respond to the pro-life argument by saying:
LOOK, Republicans believe life begins at conception and ends at birth. That's why they have consistently underfunded programs for poor children, after school programs and other programs that are essential to quality of life issues for the poor.

[seabeyond]

11. i perfectly understand his stance and anyone that didnt

simply dont want to get it. he doesnt believe in it. opposes it with his religion. he doesnt believe his religion has a part in dictating citizens live. that the constitution prohibits that.

there are more beliefs than just your two.

[PlanetBev]

17. Kerry had the chance to appeal to young women at the debates

To state the truth about Bush's intentions. "Look, folks, Roe v Wade is one vote away from being overturned. Bush will have up to four appointees. How'd you like to go back to the good old days of coat hanger abortions?

I guarantee you, Howard Dean would have said this. He might have lost a lot bigger than Kerry, but he would have done so clearly stating the obviously truth.

Kerry was too busy worrying about not offending swing voters.

Now we're cooked.

[sandnsea]

19. Interesting logic

Bash Kerry because he supposedly wasn't clear enough (although he was). Dean would have been a more vocal (abrasive) candidate and therefore 'better', although he probably would have been defeated even worse than Kerry. :crazy:

[Eric J in MN]

20. that's what I mean.

Taking a stronger stand one way or the other.

[seabeyond]

22. firstly i think kerry won and his votes were taken from him

so i think his message got out. secondly, i think everyone has made it clear we are all that close to clothes hangers. and any female that doesnt know this waSNT SITTING WATCHING THE DEBATES. (sorry for caps)

i am not going to buy into the thought we have to have a sound bite, non thinking uneducated talking person to be able to communicate with the people. that we need to find a person we want to have a beer with. this is all more important than that. we are hiring someone to do a job........

and yes i think it worked, because i think he had the vote. and i think the dems worked ass of supporting and working for him

[sandnsea]

18. It's the Catholic view

Life begins at conception is an article of faith, but we don't legislate our religion. Otherwise there'd be no abortion at all, no exceptions, unless a woman was actually, literally, dieing. We'd outlaw condoms, vasectomies, birth control. We'd outlaw divorce. That's why most Catholic legislators are pro-choice, they long ago reconciled the fact that there's too many variables in issues like abortion that go against the Church. You can't legislate Catholic doctrine, it's impossible. He was absolutely right, he should have just taken it to the logical Catholic conclusion.

[ogradda]

21. his position was crystal clear to me

he was for a womens right to chose. there was no part of that i didn't understand.

[KT2000]

23. No - everyone knew where he stood n/t

[Mandate My Ass]

24. He summed it up beautifully, articulately and most of all CORRECTLY

He said it was his opinion based on the fact that he is RC, that life begins at conception. He said he wasn't willing to impose his opinion of when life begins on those Americans who have a different opinion. It was the perfect reply which pointed to his strength as both a leader and a person with religious conviction: he supports the separation of Church and state and supports a woman's right to choose based on secular, legal and popular opinion.

He keeps his own counsel as pertains to his religious conviction because freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.

[Kurovski]

25. Kerry and aborted votes--was the problem Bush had a clear hand?

Kerry had no problem regarding abortion.

There are many, many views on abortion, but the majority of Americans believe abortion must be legal. HE's JUST LIKE THE MAJORITY!

This includes Republicans such as Bush's wife, Laura, and his mama.. Madame Barbara.

[LTRS]

26. No. He was clear AND correct (n/t)

[Blaze Diem]

27. "You Can't Be a Both A Good Catholic and Pro-abortion" Bumper Sticker

I saw driving home after work tonight.

I thought about the blatant hypocrisy of it all.
I'm thinking about getting a bumper sticker saying "You can't be a good Catholic and use birth control."

In an archaic religion, where the only birth control is the risky rythum method, and good Catholic couples have been secretly using 'the pill' since the 60's, I understand the Catholics to be just what I've always known them to be.
A few Hail Mary's, one Our Father and your good to go.
Most every Catholic woman I've known through the years will say the same thing about birth control methods.

"Its me and my husband's choice." Though said sometimes with a whisper, so as not to offend the holier of the Catholics next door, these couples have adhered to common sense and still feel that THEIR God knows and accepts their reasoning.

If people believe that abortion is within the limits of their conscience and reasoning, then its their business.
Apparently we now exist in a world where ones private thoughts between them and their Higher Power are not private anymore. That esteemed one-on-one with their God is to be mandated by the government.
And, of course, by other "good" Christians who live their faith by the rule of hypocrisy.

Sit in judgement of your own conscience first.

I feel like I'm living in the United States of American Christian Hypocrisy.

Talk about flip-floppers!