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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:02 PM
Original message
Overturning a "Mandate" thru Recounts (Its for Real)
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 11:04 PM by IdaBriggs
Let me explain what appears to have happened with the election last week: Vote Fraud. And yes, there is something to be done about it THIS YEAR before the electoral college meets.

There are two types of Vote Fraud: "on purpose" and "on accident." When it comes to the "counting" problems, I'm going from the "on accident" theory until proven otherwise. Take off your tin-foil hats for a second, and recognize that Software Programmers are not necessarily perfect; we make mistakes. In fact, we make a lot of our money FIXING mistakes. As in "glitches" or "bugs." Oops! What do you mean we switched the numbers? Tee hee. No one will probably notice; after all, they only use the thing once every few years...

There appears to be some seriously out of whack numbers happening in areas where "sophisticated" equipment is being used to count ballots. At *my* instigation -- not the Kerry campaign or Karl Rove -- Ralph Nader has agreed to have a MANUAL RECOUNT done in New Hampshire for those precincts where Diebold AccuVote machines are being used.

I also want MANUAL recounts done in every state. That is taking a little more work.

The big issues are funding, timing and resources. You will ALL be asked to give MORE MONEY to fund the effort, even though you already gave so much. And honestly, after the recounts happen, there are two possibilities:

Possibility One is that everything is fine, and the RAW DATA (meaning the votes) will match the REPORTED DATA (meaning the final numbers). If that happens, its going to be time to suck it up, get over it, and start the healing.

Possibility Two is that everything is NOT fine, and the numbers are being reported WRONG. Maybe its going to be because of some buggy software, or maybe its going to be because of some nefarious activity, or maybe its going to be a combination all-of-the-above.

Either way, despite what SOME people want to believe, the ELECTION IS NOT OVER until after the Elector College meets. That means ALL VOTE RECOUNTS HAVE TO BE DONE BEFORE THEN.

This is not something that is a Main Stream Media Issue. This is something specific to EACH STATE and that State's citizens. My question to the Democratic Leadership is this: Why NOT help with this? What's the worst thing that can happen -- maybe you could LOSE some more? This is bigger than Kerry, this is bigger than Nader, this is bigger than Bush; this is about the INTEGRITY of the American voting system -- a "free democracy" where every vote counts.

I need help. I need people to track down numbers (bless all of you who have been helping with this today!). I need people to crunch those numbers so we have something to compare against when the recounts happen to demonstrate the discrepancy rate. I need people to help FUND the dratted things (there is going to be a specific place to send money, starting tomorrow, or you can give an unlimited amount to the Ralph Nader team at www.votenader.org as long as you specify it is FOR RECOUNTS and not campaign debt), and in some states, I'm going to need citizens to go down and file the paperwork to make it happen. And when I'm tired, I need other people to remind me that I'm not alone, and we can get this done, and this is a fight worth fighting.

Both the Republican AND Democratic party appear to have forgotten WHO is in charge. That would be US -- "WE THE PEOPLE." I'm one of the people, and I've been willing to step up while Kerry and his team take a bit of a break, and recover from the ego blast they took last week. Hopefully they will come out swinging (and call me so we can talk about what the heck is going on with this stuff), but I'm not counting on them to "give me my rights" -- I *OWN* my rights, and I WANT A RECOUNT.

In my wildest dreams, the numbers turn for Kerry. In my more pragmatic ones, I am assured of the integrity of the voting system. Either way, I have not surrendered, I will NOT surrender, and I am CONFIDENT that WE WILL WIN THE FIGHT.

So, if you want to show "someone" what a REAL mandate looks like, JOIN ME in the fight to MANUALLY COUNT THE VOTES. Until then, if Bush wants me to believe he won, my answer is this:

PROVE IT!

ON EDIT: The New Hampshire study can be found at www.invisibleida.com
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. What can I do now to help? I have been searching for direct action for a
WEEK. Where do I sign up? Wghat do I do? It is The People's choice not the FKING media's and not the DLC's.
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Today's call for volunteers is still up.
Go here -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2639056 -- and see if your state has been done yet. Welcome aboard!
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-10-04 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
41. Kick! N/M
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truthpusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. I am in Colorado...
...e-mail me if you need help with paperwork.
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Here is what I have on getting a Recount in Colorado:
Interested in stepping up? Call your Secretary of State's office, and find out the details:

"A recount of any election contest shall be held if the difference between the highest number of votes cast and the next highest number of votes cast is less than or equal to one half of one percent of the highest vote cast in that election contest. Whenever a recount is not required and interested party (including a candidate who lost the election) may submit a notarized written request for a recount. Colorado Revised Statutes §§ 1-10.5-101, 1-10.5-102, 1-10.5-103, 1-10.5-10631-10-1207 (*cannot link directly to section)"
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truthpusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Suggestions on questions when I call (this is what I have so far):
Has anybody requested a recount?

Who can request a recount?

Are there fees involved?

When is the deadline?

Can I see complaints that have been filed if any?

What do I need to do next?

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:35 PM
Original message
How 'bout you take the initiative and find out -- your state no doubt
has all that information online. OR you might try calling an election issues attorney (maybe someone connected with one of your Dem campaigns) OR even call the SoS's office directly.

But sooner or later the actual laws will be needed. Again, they're probably online.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I know of some who had problems voting and I am in
Denver county. Please let me know if I can help you with this.
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truthpusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. E-mail me:
tprovost1@comcast.net

There is another person from colorado who e-mailed me his e-mail is: glennspeegle@yahoo.com
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Lost Creek Donating Member (115 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. E-mail me
glennspeegle@yahoo.com
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. I believe there will be just enough evidence of tampering
that no matter what the outcome, bush will be forever tainted. For the rest of his life, and the lives of his family, it will hang over their heads like a noxious cloud. Some legacy, eh?

Those Republicans in high offices seldom seem to achieve anything honestly.
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lizzieforkerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Signing in from Ohio
Just tell me what to do!
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Ohio might require the MOST work.
I've been told one of the third party candidates is going to file the paperwork, but if not, then five or ten citizens or something have to file for EACH county or precinct or something. Here's what I have on it:

"If the number of votes cast for the declared winning candidate in a district election does not exceed the number of votes cast for the declared losing candidate by a margin of one-half of one percent or more of the total vote, a recount shall be conducted. If the number of votes cast for the declared winning candidate in a statewide election does not exceed the number of voted cast for the declared losing candidate by a margin of one-fourth of one percent or more of the total vote, a recount shall be conducted. Any candidate who was not declared elected may submit an application for a recount of the votes. Any group of 5 or more qualified electors may also file an application for a recount of the votes at an election upon any question or issue, provided that they either voted "Yes" or in favor of an issue that was defeated of they voted "No" or against an issue that was adopted. Ohio Revised Code §3515.01 – 3515.071"

Call your Secretary of State tomorrow, and find out more. :)
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JudyM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
31. Ida, I can probably find you locals in whatever counties
you're not otherwise covered for filing. Will go through GLBT dems network, assuming they'll be able to jump on it.
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lizzieforkerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
40. Have you heard of a group called
Ohio Recount?
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. thankyou
and i am sooooooooooooooo available
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Excellent! Go to post #3 and see if you can help! nt
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clover Donating Member (445 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. any need for IOWA help? (nt)
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yes --
I think we missed the deadline because it was last week. Can you call them up tomorrow, and see if there is anyway around that? Also, go check the thread mentioned in post #3 to see if Iowa has been taken yet. Thank you! :) Best, Ida
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clover Donating Member (445 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. got it. thanks. (nt)
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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. Sign me up as well; Texas, or anywhere needed! n/t
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Texas needs a lot of help because its so big.
Go to post #3 and see if you can help, please! :)
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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. I certainly will, and Thank you so much for all that you've done and are
doing...I just took a brief glimpse at the study of New Hamphire, and it looks very thorough. I'll study it later. I have questions about the discrepancies in voting machine count numbers and actual votes cast in the States of Ohio and Florida. These states were changing data or something today. Any info on this? Was this evidence of ballot stuffing? I've downloaded the numbers for Florida, not Ohio.

Again, thanks and good night!!!
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'll reply more in the a.m., but I need to go get some sleep. THANK YOU! n
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uhhuh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Ida!!!
GB'nC said you needed a precint breakdown for New mexico.

Will this help?:


http://web.state.nm.us/avrs/PRECINDX.HTM
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uhhuh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. update!!!
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 12:06 AM by uhhuh
I also got the by precint registration from 1997. There don't seem to be reports fron 2000, but I'm still looking...

http://web.archive.org/web/19970124060202/web.state.nm.us/AVRS/San-Juan.HTM

More:

there is a list of registrants by precint that includes SOME from 2000, but many have been changed to reflect 2002 and 2004 registrants.

Kinda odd, but maybe it will help?


http://web.archive.org/web/20001006192837/web.state.nm.us/AVRS/PRECINDX.HTM
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Pobeka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. I'm compiling the 2004 data right now, have all the web pages
and am parsing out the data...
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Pobeka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
30. Just sent the voter registration data for NM to Ida n/t.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. I am happy tpo give my money and my time but I must know
Ida, Keith O said this evening on his show that Ralph's bid has been blocked.
Are you saying this has changed or was erroneously reported? I will rally my little group of troops but I must know before I ask them to do this.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I spoke to hedda_foil earlier this evening
(she was working on something to post here) and it's still in the works. Any money contributed to the fund they'll be setting up will be held in escrow and refunded if this falls through. It's all being done nice and legal-like.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Good news.
Thanks Eloriel.
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #18
33. Also, as of last night when I went to bed...
The New Hampshire recount was on -- the Sec of State there is fabulous, and is getting that this is a citizen effort; they will be recounting all of the Diebold AccuVote precincts. :) Best, Ida
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kerry2win Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. possible Badnarik for ohio recount
I know Nadar not on ballot but could we raise money for Badnarik on Ohio. A worker there tonight said they might want to look into it.
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. A fund to help pay for ALL recounts is being set up --
Even as we speak. :) Best, Ida
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
26. I am willing to donate $$$ to save the democracy
middle 3 figures, unless I can get a $2,000 refund from Kerry.
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #26
35. Thank you -- the fund is being set up today.
I'm sure more details will be posted on DU; isn't this FUN?

Sure wish the Kerry team would bring their wallets into play! :)
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
28. MSNBC's Keith OLBERMANN is reporting it ----------------> mp3
http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/fraud04/fraud04.mp3

it's breaking in the lame-stream now :bounce:

will Keith get 'rather'd' :shrug:

psst... pass the word ;->
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. I love Keith. :) nt
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
32. I heard the NH recount is not going to happen. Nader missed the deadline.
Is that accurate?

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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Go here --
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
38. More IOWA info -- voting systems by county
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Pobeka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Already tabulated here:
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